going to lunch with her in an hour...

[hopesndreams]

Doing what she wants, when she wants, will not lead to what you want.

[2sure]

No. NO.

 

We get pedicures with our girl friends.

You want to be like her girlfriend, her buddy? I love you but I'm not in love with you??????

 

No.

 

"Hey, I'd love to see you, love to maybe go on a date , see how it goes. But I'm your husband , not your girlfriend, no pedicure dates."

[onedayatatyme]

Doing what she wants, when she wants, will not lead to what you want.

 

You are correct. Although to give credit where credit is due, lunch today and the pedicure after work are in reaction to me telling her the following this morning:

 

"If you're trying to send a signal that I'm not welcome in your life, I'm getting the message loud and clear. I just want you to know that it's pushing me away. Maybe that's what you want. If it's not, you need to start sending me some indication that I am welcome in your life."

 

Boom, instant invitation to lunch and the pedicures. I need to accept the invitations on good faith that she's trying. I also know that I need to do everything I can not to make her uncomfortable in these situation. That is her chief complaint for avoiding me, that the conversation ALWAYS comes back to us and our problems. I have to admit there is probably a lot of truth to that. That is the reason for my original post on this thread. I need to make things fun and light so that she will WANT to be around me instead of torturing her with my pain over things that she cannot take back. Of course I want her tortured over it but I can't make her OD on it.

 

Hell, really, if I could erase it from my brain and act like it never happened, I would. We would both be able to move forward better. But I can't. But I do realize that when we're supposed to be having fun, I need to act like it never happened. It's hard. It's pretty close to impossible, really. At least for me.

[onedayatatyme]

No. NO.

 

We get pedicures with our girl friends.

You want to be like her girlfriend, her buddy? I love you but I'm not in love with you??????

 

No.

 

"Hey, I'd love to see you, love to maybe go on a date , see how it goes. But I'm your husband , not your girlfriend, no pedicure dates."

 

Now this piece of advice really has me thinking.... Hmmmm.... What to do now in light of my previous post? I did basically ask for her to reach out in someway this morning. She is making an effort. Now that the appointment is set and it's only hours away, should I still withdraw? I love getting the woman's perspective on this.

[unsureLP]

No. NO.

 

We get pedicures with our girl friends.

You want to be like her girlfriend, her buddy? I love you but I'm not in love with you??????

 

No.

 

"Hey, I'd love to see you, love to maybe go on a date , see how it goes. But I'm your husband , not your girlfriend, no pedicure dates."

 

Hmm, I totally see what you are saying. I hadn't thought of that.

 

You are correct. Although to give credit where credit is due, lunch today and the pedicure after work are in reaction to me telling her the following this morning:

 

"If you're trying to send a signal that I'm not welcome in your life, I'm getting the message loud and clear. I just want you to know that it's pushing me away. Maybe that's what you want. If it's not, you need to start sending me some indication that I am welcome in your life."

 

Boom, instant invitation to lunch and the pedicures. I need to accept the invitations on good faith that she's trying.

 

I can totally see this too!

 

This is tough, ODAT. I think I'm for you going along for this time, on good faith that she's trying like you said. But how about you choose the next date? Ask her out, offer a time and place? That way you can make sure it's not a girlfriends type of thing.

[alphamale]

meeting my wife for lunch in an hour.

what did u order?

[onedayatatyme]

This is tough, ODAT. I think I'm for you going along for this time, on good faith that she's trying like you said. But how about you choose the next date? Ask her out, offer a time and place? That way you can make sure it's not a girlfriends type of thing.

 

Ok, ladies (unsure and 2sure), how about I go this time. I thank her for the gift certificate and for the invitation but I tell her that I'd like to do something different next time. She'll ask "like what?" and I'll tell her I'll let her know.

 

In the future, I'll avoid all girl-friend like activity. Nix the facials and the mud baths.

[onedayatatyme]

what did u order?

 

Does it matter?

[unsureLP]

ODAT -

 

Hahaha, I just noticed the irony in our names: unsure and 2sure. You might be better off going with her advice.

 

In all my unsure-ness, I would think that would be a good compromise and it would be up to her to show that she's really up to making the effort not just on her terms, but yours as well.

[JamesM]

If I read correctly on your first thread, then doesn't your wife feel that you control her too much?

 

If so, then going along with what she wants is actually going to help you reconcile, isn't it? Choosing to be your own man too much will cause her to feel that you have no respect for her.

 

I don't think she lost all respect for you. I think she simply has alot of anger and confusion built up which clouds her feelings for you. In time, you will see one way or another what she feels is your future together. The fact that she wants lunch and a pedicure with you means IMO that she wants to see if those feelings are still there. She is giving you a chance to prove that you are still the man she knew when the two of you met and fell in love.

 

The fine line that I think you need to walk is one where you give control of the future of the marriage and the two of you while not letting her get the impression that she is controlling you. Perhaps I read wrong, but I got the impression that she felt treated as a lesser person and inadequate by you and she felt that you controlled her life. For some reason she now needs to feel that she is her own person. Yet if you let her go, then IMO this is the only way that she will come back. Hang on to her and she will pull farther away.

 

As for the pedicure, I see where 2sure is coming from and I am inclined to agree to a degree. Yet I also wonder if this isn't simply a test to see if you will let her make some decisions without shooting them down as ridiculous. She knows that most men don't go with their wives for pedicures. What she may be wanting to hear is that you love her enough yet to simply be with her.

 

Treat this as if you are dating her again. Many guys would do the pedicure thing with a new girl simply as a way to get to know her. Simply spending time with her is enough. And your lunch date should have been the same thing.

 

Slowly ease into the "meat" of your problems. Start out by enjoying your time with her. As you both rebuild that trust (because this is definitely not all your fault by any means), then begin talking about feelings.

 

My initial guess is that this is something that built up over time, and because she may be a bit passive aggressive, her reaction when it finally came was radical.

 

Chase her without being too much of a "puppy dog." Woo her without losing your assertiveness. And simply be the man who she fell in love with ten years ago.

 

Good luck. This is certainly fixable. Not easy but fixable.

 

All of this are my opinions after reading your threads, so feel free to correct me where I am wrong.

[alphamale]

Does it matter?

yes it sheds some light on your state of mind. for example if you ordered a salad you were in a good mood, if you ordered a steak you were in an angry mood

[JamesM]

yes it sheds some light on your state of mind. for example if you ordered a salad you were in a good mood, if you ordered a steak you were in an angry mood

 

Serious? Alpha, interesting insights but I hope it contains some sarcasm.

 

Since I usually order steak or chicken and NEVER a salad (because I am not a rabbit ), I must come off as a very angry man.

[unsureLP]

Serious? Alpha, interesting insights but I hope it contains some sarcasm.

 

Since I usually order steak or chicken and NEVER a salad (because I am not a rabbit ), I must come off as a very angry man.

 

And I must always be in a happy mood, since I'm a rabbit who usually orders vegetarian.

[onedayatatyme]

If I read correctly on your first thread, then doesn't your wife feel that you control her too much?.

 

Yes

 

Perhaps I read wrong, but I got the impression that she felt treated as a lesser person and inadequate by you and she felt that you controlled her life.

 

Yes, yes and yes. This is one of her huge complaints. And to a large degree I'd say she is right. I have treated her as the less mature, less adult one of the relationship. I have, in the past, shown little respect for her desires and opinions.

 

Yes, I would also agree that she is passive aggressive. I probably am too.

 

In general, you give me hope. I think you have a fairly accurate handle on the situation and I really appreciate you reading through all of my threads. If she hasn't lost all respect for me, maybe it just appears that way because she is asserting herself SOOO much that she's being completely unreasonable? Just a thought. It has crossed my mind before that she is so unused to having the emotional upper hand in our relationship that she's going overboard.

[onedayatatyme]

yes it sheds some light on your state of mind. for example if you ordered a salad you were in a good mood, if you ordered a steak you were in an angry mood

 

Well we were at Soup N Salad, so I had soup and salad. Romain with olives and ranch dressing, cheese and broccoli soup, and red beans and rice.

 

Probably not too helpful.

[hopesndreams]

If I read correctly on your first thread, then doesn't your wife feel that you control her too much?

 

If so, then going along with what she wants is actually going to help you reconcile, isn't it? Choosing to be your own man too much will cause her to feel that you have no respect for her.

 

I don't think she lost all respect for you. I think she simply has alot of anger and confusion built up which clouds her feelings for you. In time, you will see one way or another what she feels is your future together. The fact that she wants lunch and a pedicure with you means IMO that she wants to see if those feelings are still there. She is giving you a chance to prove that you are still the man she knew when the two of you met and fell in love.

 

The fine line that I think you need to walk is one where you give control of the future of the marriage and the two of you while not letting her get the impression that she is controlling you. Perhaps I read wrong, but I got the impression that she felt treated as a lesser person and inadequate by you and she felt that you controlled her life. For some reason she now needs to feel that she is her own person. Yet if you let her go, then IMO this is the only way that she will come back. Hang on to her and she will pull farther away.

 

As for the pedicure, I see where 2sure is coming from and I am inclined to agree to a degree. Yet I also wonder if this isn't simply a test to see if you will let her make some decisions without shooting them down as ridiculous. She knows that most men don't go with their wives for pedicures. What she may be wanting to hear is that you love her enough yet to simply be with her.

 

Treat this as if you are dating her again. Many guys would do the pedicure thing with a new girl simply as a way to get to know her. Simply spending time with her is enough. And your lunch date should have been the same thing.

 

Slowly ease into the "meat" of your problems. Start out by enjoying your time with her. As you both rebuild that trust (because this is definitely not all your fault by any means), then begin talking about feelings.

 

My initial guess is that this is something that built up over time, and because she may be a bit passive aggressive, her reaction when it finally came was radical.

 

Chase her without being too much of a "puppy dog." Woo her without losing your assertiveness. And simply be the man who she fell in love with ten years ago.

 

Good luck. This is certainly fixable. Not easy but fixable.

 

All of this are my opinions after reading your threads, so feel free to correct me where I am wrong.

 

Good sound advice. Only problem is, she's a cheater.

[onedayatatyme]

Good sound advice. Only problem is, she's a cheater.

 

That's sort of a conversation killer. I don't mean to be critical, but I can't figure out how to use this. Yes, she cheated. So there is no trust. But it doesn't mean things can't be repaired, does it? Certainly not. Maybe they can't be repaired but it isn't because of the affair, it's going to be for a host of other reasons. Most of which were there way before the affair:

 

She thinks I'm controlling

I think I'm underappreciated

She thinks I don't respect her

She doesn't respect me

We don't trust each other

Our communication sux and has for YEARS

 

Of course the last one is compounded 100x because of the affair. But there are other issues that need to be fixed. The affair cannot be taken back. But if we can both get to a place where we are happy and can stay there, I won't worry about another one.

[hopesndreams]

Without remorse, from her, there is nothing to make right.

[JamesM]

That's sort of a conversation killer. I don't mean to be critical, but I can't figure out how to use this. Yes, she cheated. So there is no trust. But it doesn't mean things can't be repaired, does it?

 

I know for a fact that an affair can cause a marriage to be fixed and be a better marriage. I could easily give you the name and number of a woman who had that happen. Now five years later, she is extremely happy in her marriage.

 

Trust can be rebuilt, but it will take hard work from her side to show you that she will be trustworthy. And it will take an effort on your side to forgive.

 

Simply start all over and see where this leads. It may never be a happy marriage, but it also may be a much happier marriage. None of us know. There is a risk.

 

There will be many here who are bitter over their own marriage and possibly a cheating spouse, but remember, your situation is your situation.

 

One thing I know...if you leave without trying, then you will never know...and always wonder. If you try and it doesn't work, then you can leave knowing that you tried. If you try and it works, then you can be happy that you gave it one more chance.

[onedayatatyme]

One thing I know...if you leave without trying, then you will never know...and always wonder. If you try and it doesn't work, then you can leave knowing that you tried. If you try and it works, then you can be happy that you gave it one more chance.

 

This is the one thing that I hear over adn over that really resonates with me. I feel like I HAVE to try to know that I didn't take the easy way out. I take my wedding vows very seriously, even after the A (which I never thought I would), and I need to know for myself that I didn't rob myself or my kids of a stable, loving household.

[onedayatatyme]

We went and got our pedicures last night. It was pretty fun but it was in a buddy kind of way. any positive interaction is good though at this point. We ended up on opposite sides of the room, I was getting the pedicure while she was getting her nails done.

 

Man, as I type this I sound so effeminate... oh well.

 

But she kept looking at me and we were having a conversation via text. There were lots of smiles back and forth. For some reason when the lady was working on my left foot it was driving me nuts. It tickled like crazy and I was laughing and trying real hard not to yank my foot out of her hands. So we both got a kick out of that. Anyway, it was lighthearted and hopefully it proves to her that we don't always have to be at each other's throats.

 

Today is sports day. One of our duaghter's has soccer practice, then W has a soccer game, then I have a softball game. So lots of time together with the kids and with extended family and friends. Today is a good memory building opportunity and has the potential to be one of those days that she'll evaluate in terms of "this is what I'll be giving up if I walk away from the marriage".

 

My strategy today will be to be 1000% loving dad. Make my kids laugh. Make W smile because the kids are being cute and having fun. Try to create lots of Kodak moments for her to witness. Just simply give her something to appreciate and really think twice about giving up.

 

Then we have rodeo tickets for sunday afternoon. We've never been to the rodeo together. We'll take the kids. Hopefully FFA or 4H will be showing off their animals. The kids will like that. There is a carnival there too. Another opportunity for a family day. We have four tickets. I might be able to get more and then we can invite some extended family. I find that when there are other people there it helps us keep things more casual and there is less pressure.

[unsureLP]

The pedicure date doesn't sound so bad. It wasn't romantic, but you guys created a fun memory where you were sort of accomplices (Haha, I asked about tickling and you denied it! I'll never get a pedi).

 

Besides, it's important for lovers to be friends/buddies too, I think. Of course that's not all you should be, and you shouldn't fall into the "just friends" trap, but I think camaraderie, partnership building at this point is good, no?

 

As for today's plan, that sounds really good. I can tell you my experience on that. There are times I feel like I'm ready to give up, like I've had enough of getting yelled at, of being afraid to speak, or stepping on eggshells to avoid fights. Then I watch H with our little girl, being the great dad he is, and see her laughing, and I get a renewed sense of commitment. I could be feeling super resentful, but I love, love, love to watch him being a dad. I think it makes me fall in love with him again bit by bit.

 

Have fun on your sports day!

 

ps.: I think it's great that you guys are active together as a family.

[Gunny376]

Man, as I type this I sound so effeminate... oh well.

 

Women by their nature and definition pay attention to the smallest of details, especially when it comes to how a man dresses, and grooms themselves.

 

By definition of being her husband? You are an extension of who she is as an individual and as a woman. That is to say that you are an extension of her very being, and as a woman she is very concerned about the opinions of others in particular other women.

 

You will if your in close proximity hear a woman say to another woman "She's lucky to have him!" but,.................you will never hear another man say that to another man.

 

Your basic strategy and tactics (sorry retired military) are sound and solid IMHO. However you need to achieve a balance of family time, me time, her time.

 

With the day to day deadlines, schedules, outside obligations etc? That can sometimes be difficult to achieve and maintain.

 

I wouldn't concern myself about having done what many would consider effeminate.

 

I do think that your missing the whole lesson of the pedicure? She's looking to draw out the softer, kinder, gentler (not effeminate) easier going, more relaxed, less tensed side and fun side of your personality.

 

To live like no other? Live like no other!

[floridapad]

Oneday -

 

I'm going to be honest. Pardon me if it comes across as blunt. All this he said she said what do I say at lunch detailed stuff is never going to work. It seems you are over analyzing stuff to death and it's stopping you from just relaxing and having fun Why? I don;'t know but perhaps it's because your so damn focused on her and you and recon that it makes things so darn unatural when your with her. You need to have something to talk about ? Then get a life (no thats not a stab thats a divorce busting term GALing). Make her interested in YOU. Start doing somethings you have never ever done before and keep doing it. This will build your confidence and give you something to mention (not brag about) in a light conversation and take your mind off of recon a bit. Start a NEW hobby or interest. Something different. If she see's you actually getting a life outside of her it will draw her into you out of curiosity and it will give you something to talk about and before you know it the dates will become more natural. Also, if she is an active girl take her on a date that's completely different and allows for some activity to talk about while you are on the date. Don't call it a date in your mind. Your building it up. It's more like a hang out with a friend and not a date to see if you can spark something. If thats your mindset it won't work. Too unatural. You've got to reestablish emotional intimacy before the romance side can really have any affect. The only way to establish emotional intimacy is to just be friends for now and see how she opens up. No need to rush things. Keep it

Edited March 11, 2010 by floridapad

[Gunny376]

Besides, it's important for lovers to be friends/buddies too, I think. Of course that's not all you should be, and you shouldn't fall into the "just friends" trap, but I think camaraderie, partnership building at this point is good, no?

 

There are times I feel like I'm ready to give up, like I've had enough of getting yelled at, of being afraid to speak, or stepping on eggshells to avoid fights. Then I watch H with our little girl, being the great dad he is, and see her laughing, and I get a renewed sense of commitment. I could be feeling super resentful, but I love, love, love to watch him being a dad. I think it makes me fall in love with him again bit by bit.

 

Have fun on your sports day!

 

ps.: I think it's great that you guys are active together as a family.

 

There's a resounding thread that runs over and over again and again in women's posts here, and its,..................................(As best as I can put it in my own words?)

 

"Slow down, walk don't run, enjoy Life and all that it has to offer. Live in the moment more often than not. Calm down, 'chill out' ~ quit being angry at me, the world and everyone in it. Be tender and gentle with me and that includes my feelings. Don't yell at me, when you do I cannot hear you."

 

Always remeber that relationshps are what women do ~ nuturing is what women do.