OWoman Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 "Liebowitz (1983) suggests that, in attachments between adults, the 'attraction phase' usually peters out after about two years and the strength of if the relationship thereafter depends on the strength of the attachment that has been established" (Love and Loss) How long did the "attraction phase" last in your M? How did the "attachment" that followed it differ from that "attraction phase"?
xxoo Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 We've been together almost 20 years, and still very attracted to each other. For me, the "get wet when he enters the room" attraction is gone, probably for good. But the "that look in your eye makes me wish the kids were in bed" attraction burns strong. It isn't constant; it grows and fades over the months and throughout the month. But it is never gone, unless the attachment is damaged. Attachment (or love and commitment) is a huge factor in a marriage with children. There are times when stress is high, and time together, let alone sex, is in short supply, and the attachment keeps us on the same loving team. But, ironically, my attraction for my partner often SOARS during those times (particularly frustrating if we can't find time for sex), because caring for me and our children out of pure love and commitment is an extremely attractive quality. Thinking about it, if my partner were not such a loving person, the attraction probably would have faded in the first year or so. Even the hottest person isn't attractive if they are ugly inside. But, with a loving partner, I only continue to associate his eyes....his voice....his hands....his body....with good feelings (sexual and otherwise) over the years. The attachment sustains the good will, and the good will sustains the attraction.
carhill Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 If I ever meet a woman whose intimacy style matches my attraction style, I'll let you know. I'm attracted and become attached through intimacy. This is outlier personality aspects for a man. Most men are wow nice tits and ass I'd do that. Much simpler. Sorry I'm not more helpful.
quankanne Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 interesting question ... for me there's no cut and dry answer, because the two have peaked many times over the almost 18-years we've been married. a lot has to do with stress ... and anger, if we're being totally honest But I think in order for a relationship to survive past the initial attraction stage, attraction would have to be an occuring thing ... @ carhill – interesting that you say this. I've got a friend, a nice Irish-American boy relocated to Kentuck, who also says this. I joke about being born 10 years too late because I think I'd have fit into a hippie lifestyle quite nicely, he talks about not being interested in casual relationships. Very intense stuff when you think about it, because a number of men would rather have the casual hook-up and play the field than settle down (when they're younger).
giotto Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 After almost 25 years together, I'm still very attracted to my wife, physically... I don't know if I like her as a person that much anymore, though...
2sure Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Hmmmm. Just was thinking. Sure, attraction to someone can lead to a relationship and possibly lead to attachment. It follows that for many people in a long term relationship the attraction may fade, but attachment grows. But at the same time...attachment to someone often leads to attraction. The more attached you are, the more attractive you find your partner In a healthy long term relationship...thats the beauty of it. supposably
giotto Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 But at the same time...attachment to someone often leads to attraction. The more attached you are, the more attractive you find your partner In a healthy long term relationship...thats the beauty of it. supposably attraction can only turn into attachment on a long term if it's based on personal and mental compatibility...
2sure Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 well yeah, and egg whites swill only turn into meringue if you add creme of tartar & beat them.... So?
giotto Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 well yeah, and egg whites swill only turn into meringue if you add creme of tartar & beat them.... So? I just don't see how you can get attached and then find that person attractive... surely, it's the other way round? And I don't like meringues...
carhill Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 well yeah, and egg whites swill only turn into meringue if you add creme of tartar & beat them.... So? D@mn, I knew I forgot something (seriously, my last meringue was shyte!) It's hard to get attached to a guy who loves to cook
2sure Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Ok, a lot of times what seems clear to me is not to others - so I'll assume its me. Have you ever had a friend, or colleague, or peer that was just average to you initially...but after getting to know them and really liking them...you begin to find some of their previously average physical features attractive?
giotto Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Ok, a lot of times what seems clear to me is not to others - so I'll assume its me. Have you ever had a friend, or colleague, or peer that was just average to you initially...but after getting to know them and really liking them...you begin to find some of their previously average physical features attractive? ah, well, you see, there is already a certain degree of attraction there...
carhill Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Ok, a lot of times what seems clear to me is not to others - so I'll assume its me. Have you ever had a friend, or colleague, or peer that was just average to you initially...but after getting to know them and really liking them...you begin to find some of their previously average physical features attractive? Yes, and this is outlier and unhealthy personality for a man, because, bluntly, by the time I get to know a woman well enough to truly see her beauty, she's already stuck me in the place LS'ers call the friendzone, simply because women are used to men hitting on them sexually from the get go and *assume* a man who does not make sexual moves immediately has no interest and will never have any interest in them sexually. A lifetime of experience and a marriage of convenience support this hypothesis of unhealthy perspective. Will it change? Not likely. Personality and attraction style are essential elements of a person's psyche. I just accept it and hope that, at some point, I meet someone compatible. For a woman with such a personality, it's different, since she's the receptacle and men (normal men) are always hitting on her sexually. She can rebuff those advances while getting to know the man and, if he's sufficiently attracted sexually, he'll hang around long enough for her to get to know him and decide whether intimacy reaches attraction for her. If not, he'll leave, but another man will take his place and the cycle repeats. This is what I see every day. Anyway, one perspective. You won't hear it often, if ever.
2sure Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Carhill, I must be in a strange mood today...but I read your last post twice and I dont know why but I laughed all the way through. Both times. I dont doubt its truth at all. But, I think its because it sounds like such a frustrating cycle.
carhill Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Yeah, well, if you were required by society to be attracted to bits hanging out and didn't have that perspective, it might be a different timbre of laugh, but I can understand. We see some of that here on LS with the men who deem women who see a hot guy, take the hot guy and f*ck the hot guy indiscriminately as whores and undeserving of a LTR. Even though they might be perfectly healthy and loving people, they are branded. That's the life I've lived. Good thing I don't place my personal self-worth on the altar of what society thinks
Mme. Chaucer Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Carhill, many women I know have been hoping to find a man like you all their lives. Even if we are socially conditioned to be responded to as sexual "receptacles," it can be an unfulfilling role - also, one that does not withstand the test of time well.
carhill Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Clearly, it might be a noble thought, but I no more expect a woman to unlearn and/or change her intrinsic personality and/or attraction triggers than I can expect to change my own. I believe that some women *want* this, I truly do, but life experience, lots of it, has proven to me that they are not *attracted* to it. That gut feeling which keeps you in the game, solving the problems, facing the challenges, celebrating the joys, comes from *attraction*, not *want*. I accept that now. Prior I fought against reality. It is what it is. Life goes on
Luv2dance Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Very interesting question...and one I am struggling with at the moment! I did not have a very strong physical attraction to MH and brushed it off as no big deal (there's a long thread). Now, 15 yrs later even with an attachment the attraction is not there. I am actually questioning how much of an attachment we have created outside of the kids b/c we haven't communicated very well. I am holding out hope that this can be changed to save my marriage!
crazycatlady Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 We've been together almost 20 years, and still very attracted to each other. For me, the "get wet when he enters the room" attraction is gone, probably for good. But the "that look in your eye makes me wish the kids were in bed" attraction burns strong. It isn't constant; it grows and fades over the months and throughout the month. But it is never gone, unless the attachment is damaged. Attachment (or love and commitment) is a huge factor in a marriage with children. There are times when stress is high, and time together, let alone sex, is in short supply, and the attachment keeps us on the same loving team. But, ironically, my attraction for my partner often SOARS during those times (particularly frustrating if we can't find time for sex), because caring for me and our children out of pure love and commitment is an extremely attractive quality. Thinking about it, if my partner were not such a loving person, the attraction probably would have faded in the first year or so. Even the hottest person isn't attractive if they are ugly inside. But, with a loving partner, I only continue to associate his eyes....his voice....his hands....his body....with good feelings (sexual and otherwise) over the years. The attachment sustains the good will, and the good will sustains the attraction. I like what you said here. I don't necessarily agree with it from my stand point, but I think its a valid point, which is why I have a hard time understanding the lack of attraction some women (mainly) have for the man they are attached to. It comes and goes how attractive I find my H. Sometimes, especially when the sex is frequent, he walks in and wow...yeah I get turned on. He touches me and I respond almost instantly. His smell, hmmmmm. Even just talking about it, turns me on. Not only does it turn me on, I feel more attractive too. I hear his car in the drive way and my heart starts beating a little faster, I tingle a little. Now I don't get excited over phone calls, or emails, like I did in the beginning. But I get a thrill over text messages because he flirt with me that way lol. Attachment is there but it also goes up and down with moods and stressors etc just like attraction. I don't think I could have one without the other, or the knowledge that the other is there but just sleeping - I don't like to think of it as going away, but rather its sleeping during the rough times. Not right out front, but always somewhere in the back. CCL
carhill Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 When a woman says 'I love you but am not in love with you', what does that mean, relevant to this thread topic? Think carefully about that.
2sure Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Sounds like...I am attached to you , very fond of you but not attracted in a romantic way.
carhill Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Here's a thread relevant to that dynamic, started just this morning. So, is attachment going to keep her in the M (or not), or is it attraction? What really determines that impulsion to stay when things (and maybe not even things in the relationship itself) get tough? For myself, once I realized the intimacy was manufactured (I call this 'thinking a relationship'), my attraction and attachment was dissolved. Sex felt wrong. Everything felt wrong. Bye-bye
Luv2dance Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Here's a thread relevant to that dynamic, started just this morning. So, is attachment going to keep her in the M (or not), or is it attraction? What really determines that impulsion to stay when things (and maybe not even things in the relationship itself) get tough? For myself, once I realized the intimacy was manufactured (I call this 'thinking a relationship'), my attraction and attachment was dissolved. Sex felt wrong. Everything felt wrong. Bye-bye I knew this would be my thread Do you have threads about your situation? Sounds like I might need to read them...
carhill Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Just read my journals if they don't bore you to tears. Most of the background, both on my psychology and life mistakes, is in there. I resolved my issues within MC so my only threads (actually only one) have been regarding dating as a separated man. I received good honest advice and perspective
crazycatlady Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Carhill - I can't answer for her, I can only answer for me...Attachment isn't enough for me. I must have attraction. The whole I love you but I'm not in love with you....no I can't do that. Not long term. I know the attraction can go to sleep, but I also know we can wake it up with work. I need passion and I need love for it to be worth the hassle of a LTR. CCL
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