Did any attempt MC before the affair?

[Spark1111]

I think relationships are the one area where we DO NOT seek professional guidance because we

 

A) Think we know all we need to know, or

 

B) Judge it's health by how our own individual needs are met.

 

So, I am curious about this: Most posters realized their marriage was strained or unfulfilling before they engaged in an affair.

 

How many of you sought professional counseling, either an MC, IC, pastor, priest, etc. BEFORE the affair?

 

Why, or why not?

 

Anyone?

[seibert253]

Several months before Dday, I noticed a greater emotional distance from my wife. Prior to that, our M was on cruise control.

 

I insisted on MC and my W grudgenly agreed. Little did I know she was involved in her A when we started.

 

In MC she would blameshift and not accept any of her shortcomings. It was a waste of time and money, but I was committed to doing everything to fix our M.

 

MC post A has really been a blessing.

[jennie-jennie]

My MM considered himself happily married until I realized with me that there could be much more to a relationship than what he and his wife had had. So no MC before the affair.

[PhoenixRise]

Spark

 

With everything my H and I went through prior to the affair, My H has said that the affair was a ineffective substitute for the IC he should have been getting.

[Snowflower]

Spark

 

With everything my H and I went through prior to the affair, My H has said that the affair was a ineffective substitute for the IC he should have been getting.

 

This is an interesting thought...

 

I think it would apply to my H, as well. Like you mentioned in another thread, PR, my H and I had also gone through a sh*tstorm in the 2 years prior to his A. So in a sense, my H's xAP was the friend (all WS say that, don't they?) who he thought he needed at that time. Bad choice for him, disaster for us.

 

Once we started MC after d-day, my H got a lot out of it and even did some IC...I think he really saw the value in therapy...almost more than I did in some ways. He said it made him realize a lot about himself. All good.

[2sure]

No.

 

And the really stupid thing is that I am one of those people who thinks counseling in general can benefit almost anyone. Ive gone before.

 

After D-Day when we went to MC I learned so much about having a truly healthy relationship...that it surprises me still. Just things I took for granted that I naturally knew, but really didnt.

 

Ive had failed relationships in the past and H had never been married, lived with anyone , nothing. We married in our late 30s.

 

We should have gone just on principal, even before there were issues. Thats my advice, to anyone getting married.

 

For what its worth.

[Spark1111]

Several months before Dday, I noticed a greater emotional distance from my wife. Prior to that, our M was on cruise control.

 

I insisted on MC and my W grudgenly agreed. Little did I know she was involved in her A when we started.

 

In MC she would blameshift and not accept any of her shortcomings. It was a waste of time and money, but I was committed to doing everything to fix our M.

 

MC post A has really been a blessing.

 

Yes, I know of another situation like this, and it seems it was used as a smokescreen wile the WS continued the affair, or looked to MC to continue to do so, as in, "See what a jerk he is? So, I am entitled to continue my secret affair." Can't work under those conditions.

[Spark1111]

My MM considered himself happily married until I realized with me that there could be much more to a relationship than what he and his wife had had. So no MC before the affair.

 

I wonder if he would consider it now, though it is doubtful it would be helpful to his marriage as long as he is having his unmet needs met by you.

 

JJ, isn't he in IC? A good place to start, IMHO, that at least he can work on what his relationship with his wife is not providing him with.

[Spark1111]

Spark

 

With everything my H and I went through prior to the affair, My H has said that the affair was a ineffective substitute for the IC he should have been getting.

 

Pheonix, that it actually one type of affair: AP as a substitute for IC and it encompasses the ease in which we can confide in a friend or co-worker because there are no strings attached initially....

 

I am glad he figured it out.

[Spark1111]

This is an interesting thought...

 

I think it would apply to my H, as well. Like you mentioned in another thread, PR, my H and I had also gone through a sh*tstorm in the 2 years prior to his A. So in a sense, my H's xAP was the friend (all WS say that, don't they?) who he thought he needed at that time. Bad choice for him, disaster for us.

 

Once we started MC after d-day, my H got a lot out of it and even did some IC...I think he really saw the value in therapy...almost more than I did in some ways. He said it made him realize a lot about himself. All good.

 

Snowflower, are stories parallel each other often, or at least our two year s**tstorm pre-affair does.

 

I remember begging him to go to counseling because he was soooo miserable and then slowly grew miserable....with me way before he crashed into her.

 

He refused, believing it unmanly, or believing he had always been able to "pull himself up by his bootstraps" and be the captain of his own destiny.

 

I went alone.

 

Now, I bet he wished he had accompany me.

[Spark1111]

No.

 

And the really stupid thing is that I am one of those people who thinks counseling in general can benefit almost anyone. Ive gone before.

 

After D-Day when we went to MC I learned so much about having a truly healthy relationship...that it surprises me still. Just things I took for granted that I naturally knew, but really didnt.

 

Ive had failed relationships in the past and H had never been married, lived with anyone , nothing. We married in our late 30s.

 

We should have gone just on principal, even before there were issues. Thats my advice, to anyone getting married.

 

For what its worth.

 

What did you learn about having a truly healthy relationship, 2Sure, if you do not mind me asking?

 

What was hard for me initially in MC is the relationship is the client, and since there are no perfect relationships, we both take turns in a hot seat somewhat.

 

It is not always comfortable, and we both have self-sabotaging behaviors. Communication could be better. WHile we are great communicators elsewhere, we bring all our defensiveness and insecurity to the table when we communicate with each other. Especially my husband, who assumes his efforts are never good-enough for me. He is very defensive, very insecure....but trying really, really hard to get it right.

 

And in the beginning, when I was unsure I wanted to remain with a cheating spouse, it was too premature FOR ME. I was still in too much pain from discovering his affair and wasn't whole enough to deal with OTHER issues in the marriage until we got that right. Tough times, behind us now, I hope....

 

And I agree with you. I wish I had the PHD in relationships and affairs I have today BEFORE I got married. It should be mandatory somewhere, like parenting classes.:confused:

[jennie-jennie]

I wonder if he would consider it now, though it is doubtful it would be helpful to his marriage as long as he is having his unmet needs met by you.

 

JJ, isn't he in IC? A good place to start, IMHO, that at least he can work on what his relationship with his wife is not providing him with.

 

I can't believe they would benefit from MC as long as he and I are in a relationship. How do you go about discussing the non-existing intimacy in your marriage when you have agreed to exclusivity with another woman?

 

He is intending to do IC. Question is when.

[2sure]

What did you learn about having a truly healthy relationship, 2Sure, if you do not mind me asking?

 

Well, I sort of took it for granted that I knew how to have a healthy relationship. Yet, really I had never experienced one. So, I realized that assuming I could have a healthy relationship was like me assuming I could fly a plane even though I never had.

 

So, for me, that was big.

 

Next best thing: The whole open and transparent thing I talk about all the time. It should be there from the get go, not introduced after a crisis.

Being open & transparent is not the opposite of being respectful and trusting.

 

But also: It came to a point in the MC process that I said to both my H and the counselor:

 

" I am 45 years old. I have experienced loss, trauma, heartbreak, death, violence, etc and I have recovered, learned , and grown from it all. What the hell makes either one of you think you know what I need more than i do.?"

 

And I was right.

[Snowflower]

Snowflower, are stories parallel each other often, or at least our two year s**tstorm pre-affair does.

 

I remember begging him to go to counseling because he was soooo miserable and then slowly grew miserable....with me way before he crashed into her.

 

He refused, believing it unmanly, or believing he had always been able to "pull himself up by his bootstraps" and be the captain of his own destiny.

 

I went alone.

 

Now, I bet he wished he had accompany me.

 

I bet he does wish he had taken those precautionary steps before!

 

My H also thought counseling was for wimps...handle things by yourself, was his motto.

 

I never suggested counseling--until things had gotten so bad between my H and I and he was in the middle of his A (although I was unaware). We went for one disastrous session of MC prior to d-day and neither of us wanted to go back. Things continued to deteriorate in our marriage for the next few months and I started attending IC by myself.

 

About a month after we reconciled, we began MC again. It was a completely different experience the 2nd time because my H was committed to our relationship again.

[Spark1111]

I can't believe they would benefit from MC as long as he and I are in a relationship. How do you go about discussing the non-existing intimacy in your marriage when you have agreed to exclusivity with another woman?

 

He is intending to do IC. Question is when.

 

I hope he does soon. Do you go? And I am not meaning to be presumptuous here, in that you need to. I am just thinking that it often helps to know and love oneself better before extending it to a committed relationship of any kind.

[jennie-jennie]

yours?

Yes, mine. If you prefer, I can call him my boyfriend, as I do IRL.

 

Did he? Or is this just what he told you? (and if you believed him, you're a bigger fool than he is).

He told me this before our extramarital relationship started. When we were still only catching up on 30 years apart.

 

How does what YOU think you realized pertain 2 his choices?

Duh, that was a typo of course.

 

But your perception of what he had with his W is just that - your perception. And it must be based on what he told you (unless, in an unlikely event, all three of you came 2 this conclusion 2gether).

Ditto, it was his perception. And yes, he has told me about it. And no, I do not consider myself to be a fool because I trust the man I love.

 

 

Obviously, you'd have less "need" for MC than he would, before starting an affair. Unless you're referring 2 your own marriage here (if you're married).

 

-ol' 2long

 

I was referring to his marriage, but you do have a point here. I was in a long term relationship when MM contacted me. My SO and I had been to couple's counseling many years earlier. We had also been to family therapy for three weeks 24/7 at a clinic, where the therapy was centered around both the entire dysfunctional family unit and our relationship as a couple. After the family therapy my SO moved to his own apartment, but we were still a couple. This was 9 years before MM contacted me and our relationship started.

 

The counseling my SO and I got did not resolve the issue that he was not able or even interested in meeting my needs. He had his needs met in our relationship, and that was enough for him. He could not understand why I would want to end our relationship for MM when it was as good as it was.

[OWoman]

So, I am curious about this: Most posters realized their marriage was strained or unfulfilling before they engaged in an affair.

 

How many of you sought professional counseling, either an MC, IC, pastor, priest, etc. BEFORE the affair?

 

Why, or why not?

 

Anyone?

 

My H and his then-W had some brief MC as his pre-condition for taking her back after a previous separation (before I met him, in case you're wondering - it wasn't A-related at all) but she walked out when the MC suggested that her bullying and abuse was detrimental to the M. He tried to get her to return to MC once the A started, but she saw no need... He also tried to get her to attend family counselling with him and the kids, once the split was looming. Again, she saw no need. He and the kids went, and he had been going to IC (since the A became "serious"). I think she may have gotten some IC since the split.

[Spark1111]

What did you learn about having a truly healthy relationship, 2Sure, if you do not mind me asking?

 

Well, I sort of took it for granted that I knew how to have a healthy relationship. Yet, really I had never experienced one. So, I realized that assuming I could have a healthy relationship was like me assuming I could fly a plane even though I never had.

 

So, for me, that was big.

 

Next best thing: The whole open and transparent thing I talk about all the time. It should be there from the get go, not introduced after a crisis.

Being open & transparent is not the opposite of being respectful and trusting.

 

But also: It came to a point in the MC process that I said to both my H and the counselor:

 

" I am 45 years old. I have experienced loss, trauma, heartbreak, death, violence, etc and I have recovered, learned , and grown from it all. What the hell makes either one of you think you know what I need more than i do.?"

 

And I was right.

 

Hahahaha! I can't help but wonder what they thought YOU needed for YOU.

 

I too am a survivor of it all, and I have found IC actually more beneficial NOW in realizing those stupid relationship triggers I bring to the table having actually been set in stone from childhood. It has been empowering to learn my weaknesses, so to speak. This relationship....or the next can only be stronger because I AM STRoNGER.

 

And I agree, the whole transparency thing: Under the guise of respecting his privacy, and he respecting mine....A whole world of secrecy can open up and build a wall between two people.

 

I think now there are four types of relationship camps:

 

1. I am single and having the time of my life but I do grow lonely and would like to meet that special one.

 

2. I was unsuccesfully married and am now single having the time of my life but I grow lonely and would again like to find "the one" -my soulmate.

 

3. I am unsuccessfully married in that it's just okay, but we are plodding along and I find myself snickering at ball and chain jokes, or not enough sex jokes. Husband and wife bashing goes on here often.

 

4. I am gloriously married, having the friendship, intimacy and passion few believe is possible in any long-term relationship.

 

I would guess #4 is so rare that sociologists and psychologists go to great lengths to study it.

 

I seek to be a rarity and only wish I had started the process of learning and building a great relationship much earlier in my life.

 

Do you agree?

[PhoenixRise]

This is an interesting thought...

 

I think it would apply to my H, as well. Like you mentioned in another thread, PR, my H and I had also gone through a sh*tstorm in the 2 years prior to his A. So in a sense, my H's xAP was the friend (all WS say that, don't they?) who he thought he needed at that time. Bad choice for him, disaster for us.

 

Once we started MC after d-day, my H got a lot out of it and even did some IC...I think he really saw the value in therapy...almost more than I did in some ways. He said it made him realize a lot about himself. All good.

 

 

Yes indeed they are all very good friends

 

Snowflower in my case, my H's affair helped him avoid a lot of issues for awhile. It was a temporary fix. A way to avoid pain. Now he is dealing with the issues and pain he was running away from. Sounds like something similar is happening with your H.

 

IC has been even more of a blessing for us than MC

 

For me, seeing him finally deal is helping me to respect him again.

[PhoenixRise]

Pheonix, that it actually one type of affair: AP as a substitute for IC and it encompasses the ease in which we can confide in a friend or co-worker because there are no strings attached initially....

 

I am glad he figured it out.

 

 

Me too.

 

Otherwise, we would be divorced and he would still be running away.

[jennie-jennie]

Spark, I just saw you asked about IC too. Both my SO and I had had IC as well. And I had been a long term member of Al-Anon and my SO had been and still is a member of AA, so we had done a lot of work with ourselves. Still, something is damaged within him when it comes to close, intimate relationships. And... I don't think I was the right woman for him. Yet he stayed with me for all those years.

[Spark1111]

I bet he does wish he had taken those precautionary steps before!

 

 

 

About a month after we reconciled, we began MC again. It was a completely different experience the 2nd time because my H was committed to our relationship again.

 

Yes, I agree it takes huge committment on both parts to make it work again, certainly after an affair.

 

I often wonder why we do not put that effort in pre-affair. Is it that we love each other so much we begin to lose respect for each other? That our assumptions of married life, that love will conquer all, allows us to grow complacent? Or to have unrealistic expectations in assuming our partner will not only read our minds but fulfill all our needs?

 

I believe most long term commtted relationships do have the tendency to go on automatic pilot unless BOTH parties make a conscious effort to not allow that to happen.

 

It seems very rare.

[2sure]

 

4. I am gloriously married, having the friendship, intimacy and passion few believe is possible in any long-term relationship.

 

I would guess #4 is so rare that sociologists and psychologists go to great lengths to study it.

 

I seek to be a rarity and only wish I had started the process of learning and building a great relationship much earlier in my life.

 

Do you agree?

 

I do. Wholeheartedly. What i am still most angry at both myself and him is that I thought I had achieved #4. I really really did.

Had it been less than that, I dont think I would be so ....whatever.

 

I think #4 is possible. Maybe even for me, although I cannot say it is currently a priority. I am still in my jaded period.

 

But yeah , some of the things I have learned through this ...empowering. Learning is like that, something at least, its valuable.

[Spark1111]

Yes indeed they are all very good friends

 

Snowflower in my case, my H's affair helped him avoid a lot of issues for awhile. It was a temporary fix. A way to avoid pain. Now he is dealing with the issues and pain he was running away from. Sounds like something similar is happening with your H.

 

IC has been even more of a blessing for us than MC

 

For me, seeing him finally deal is helping me to respect him again.

 

I agree. I too respect him so much more as he stops avoiding his pain and deals with it head on.

 

Yes, his affair was also a temporary fix, and I believe today that she was as damaged if not more so, than he was on many levels. A perfect pairing, if you will.

 

Unfortunately, the more I have learned about the relationship, it was two lonely people no one else wanted. Yeesh! A pity party for two, that allowed them to feel oh so superior to us idiots who did not recognize them for the wonderful people they truly were!

 

I think that is why MC after DDAY was premature for me and I stopped until I was ready: I could not here how terrible we all were as he continued to try and excuse and justify the affair.

 

The MC agreed with me. Until my husband was further along in IC, he was incapable of healing the marriage, no matter how much he wanted to. He was not ready to introspect as long as he was still blaming the whole world for his pain and his actions.

 

Smart MC, dontcha think?

[Snowflower]

 

Snowflower in my case, my H's affair helped him avoid a lot of issues for awhile. It was a temporary fix. A way to avoid pain. Now he is dealing with the issues and pain he was running away from. Sounds like something similar is happening with your H.

 

 

Yes, my H was using the A as a distraction or way to avoid other issues--many of them were his own and some were present in our marriage.

 

My H has been dealing with these things now, rather than avoiding/ignoring them like he had for years.

 

If he had continued to ignore/avoid some of these issues, we would have eventually divorced. After all, you can only run away from yourself for so long.

 

Watching him deal with these issues and confront some of his inner demons helped me in the forgiveness process, too. My H had some serious stuff to deal with--things I had never experienced in my own life and I am glad I never had to face. Compassion was key for me and again, C was helpful in this.