staying together for the kids

[MadMission]

I think it's possible if the parents have emotionally disconnected (reduced/eliminated 'expectations') and have established a good business partnership for the family, adjunct to leading separate fulfilling lives and parenting together under the same roof. I think there are people who do this and who can do this. I have not yet personally met them but believe they exist. Anything that can help rear more healthy generations of children is a positive in my book

 

 

What if:

 

*you get along really well

*there is no tension or fighting, and only occassional disagreements

*you have a shared interest in raising your kids together

*home is a peaceful, safe, stable, interesting, fun

*mom and dad are both interested and involved daily in their childrens' lives

*your are NOT staying in the M because you have to, but because you WANT TO for the kids...and you wouldn't have it any other way. It's what you WANT and you are happy to do it. It's not a 'sacrifice' if it something you WANT to do.

[carhill]

If that perspective is maintained over time, IMO, the children can benefit. The one area IMO where it gets tricky is parental role-modeling of a 'loving' relationship. The first place children observe a loving romantic relationship is that between their parents. As they say, you know what you know because it's all you know. That especially applies to children.

[MadMission]

Yes, Carhill, I see your point.

 

Speaking from my own experience, I rarely saw my parents display affection towards one another...and never saw it during my teen years and early young adult years living at home. But, that has not crippled my own desire and ability to be affectionate at all.

 

My H and I hug every morning before he leaves for work...in full sight of the kids as it is a few minutes before they leave for school. My H and I do not hate each other, but have transitioned from a full M relationship into a partnership. The reasons for this are very private and are between my H and I.

 

As aware as I am...and as hard as I try, my kids...no kids...have a 'perfect' childhood. There really is no such thing. And, that is OK. I don't need perfection. The 'real' world is not a perfect world either.

 

And, if our 'parental role-modeling' is considered lacking in the display of affection department, well, we are probably not very different from many other parents. As even those in 'good' marriages aren't always consistantly affectionate with one another. Some are, but many are not. I do not think this is terribly 'abnormal' or traumatizing to children.

 

There are so many other aspects to parenting and family life which are as important and many even more important than how openly affectionate parents are.

 

So, yes, a good point.

But, not something I am worried about at all.

[Luv2dance]

Yes, Carhill, I see your point.

 

Speaking from my own experience, I rarely saw my parents display affection towards one another...and never saw it during my teen years and early young adult years living at home. But, that has not crippled my own desire and ability to be affectionate at all.

 

My H and I hug every morning before he leaves for work...in full sight of the kids as it is a few minutes before they leave for school. My H and I do not hate each other, but have transitioned from a full M relationship into a partnership. The reasons for this are very private and are between my H and I.

 

As aware as I am...and as hard as I try, my kids...no kids...have a 'perfect' childhood. There really is no such thing. And, that is OK. I don't need perfection. The 'real' world is not a perfect world either.

 

And, if our 'parental role-modeling' is considered lacking in the display of affection department, well, we are probably not very different from many other parents. As even those in 'good' marriages aren't always consistantly affectionate with one another. Some are, but many are not. I do not think this is terribly 'abnormal' or traumatizing to children.

 

There are so many other aspects to parenting and family life which are as important and many even more important than how openly affectionate parents are.

 

So, yes, a good point.

But, not something I am worried about at all.

 

I'm just curious are you and your H planning to divorce after the kids are out of the house? Or is this a lifelong partnership you have agreed on having?

[carhill]

To expand upon the 'tricky' part, I think it's possible to experience being in a loving and supportive family and understanding that model well as a child; however, the specifics of how that love is expressed also bear an impact. IOW, modeling actions and words of love in a manner which the child can emulate and begin to form their own unique map of loving actions and words. Each of us express our emotions differently and I believe this is a combination of nature (genetics) and nurture (socialization). As the child develops psychologically, they respond to their environment, and mirror it, in their own unique way. If that unique way matches up with societal norms, they are more inclined to meet 'like-minded' individuals and form relationships. If that unique way, regardless of how genuine, open or loving it is, does not match up with the norms of the world around them, their path will be more difficult.

 

So, stipulating that both parents in the 'staying together' scenario love their children and express that love overtly to their children, but not to each other (as they don't 'love' each other that way anymore), can the child learn the delineation between romantic and non-romantic love and, more specifically, how to express it in a healthy way in accord with societal norms in order to form relationships? With the experiences I had in MC, I would have to say such would be on my mind if I was thinking of entering such an 'agreement'. In fact, I think psychological counseling would be a healthy option to consider adjunct to the decision-making process.

[MadMission]

Carhill,

 

My H and I are not modeling this ideal you describe.

However, I don't think the lack of this ideal is going to cripple my children and prevent them from forming relationships.

 

The way couples interact is as unique as the couple themselves. And, there is a broad range of interactions extending to either extreme of the spectum....from couples dripping with romantic love...to more conservative couples who are more subtle. The bulk of the population is probably somewhere in the middle... with many couples fitting in at various points along the spectrum...much like a bell curve.

 

While my H and I are the primary models, we are, by far, not the only models. And, the larger our childrens' worlds grow, the more rounded their 'vision' of romantic love will become. As they see grandparents, aunts/uncles, parents of friends, neighbors, etc, etc interact...as well as other sources such as the media (maybe not such a good thing!)

 

If the development of my childrens' emotional well-being hinged entirely on my modeling romantic love 'correctly,' then I would have reason for concern. Modeling romantic love 'correctly' is only a very small part of a very big picture in the emotional development and well being of my kids.

 

Of course, my first choice would be to be perfect parents in every way...not lacking in any way...the perfect examples of everything. But, that's not realistic anyway. I think my H and I have a really good thing going with our kids.

 

In my opinion, the "norms of the world" you speak of are all over the place on that spectrum I mentioned. I don't think my kids will have it any more difficult than most kids. And, actually, they will likely do well because those years critical to emotional development have not been littered with strife, shock, distress, trauma, drama, insecurity, uncertainty, etc.

 

So, like I said, I am not really worried about it.

My H and I are very amicable and I believe we set, not a perfect example, but a good example.

[carhill]

When I read on LS of people reflecting upon their childhoods, both positive or negative, predominantly, they relate examples of their home life; to me, this makes sense, for most children spend the bulk of their time in their primary family. Trying right now, and granted I'm 'old', I can't remember a thing about how my aunts and uncles interacted or how my friend's parents interacted, as examples. No emotional (long-lasting) memories were formed. This seems to be consistent with what I read. When my stbx talked about her 'shytey childhood', she often made reference to seeking shelter at friend's homes because, to her, they seemed more 'normal and 'loving', but, yet, she mirrored the environment she grew up in. Her love style reflected what she was most exposed to and modeled by.

 

IMO, only the future, the children's future, will validate or refute assertions made here. I've seen both sides and have seen how those sides affect adult marital relations. I hope everything works out

[MadMission]

Thanks Carhill,

 

I can relate to your stbx in that I grew up with much fighting and anger in my home. It was quite dysfunctional largely because my mother is mentally ill...schizophrenic...and my only sibling, my brother, has a personality disorder with terribly disordered thinking. I do not blame my mother at all for her inability to relate and interact with me 'correctly' throughout my childhood. Not her fault really.

But, I do remember ALWAYS wanting to go to my friends' homes. It was peaceful there...normal...the parents liked each other...talked to each other, etc. Such simple things. Yet so elusive to me.

 

I am sure all of this was a factor in how I 'turned out.' And, I believe I am largely driven to do my kids' childhoods 'right' because of my own experiences.

 

All we can do as parents is what we deem to be best.

My decision to remain in my M did not come easy.

It was when I was researching how to manage and support my kids through our D, that I repeated read the same thing over and over and over again. Everything said that it is in the best interest of the kids for parents to remain together as long as there is no tension, fighting, etc.

Well, this was H and I. We are actually very good parents together.

I began to rethink the whole thing.

After MUCH contemplation, I made a choice to stay in the M.

I am happy to be here and really wouldn't have it any other way.

My kids are daily proof that I made the right choice.

 

But, like you said...we'll see.

I am hoping for the best.

 

Take care.

[Got it]

I grew up with parents that were either fighting or not speaking to each other. Both, or at least my father, was staying together for the kids. When the youngest went to college they divorced.

 

I can say, being the eldest daughter, their modeling of a relationship has taken years to break and caused undue angst on the kids. I do NOT understand why people make this choice though I respect their right to do it. All of us would have rather had them divorce than deal with the angry and dysfunction they demonstrated.

 

We have all grown much closer to our father after the divorce as it caused them each to develop individual relationships with each of us something that hadn't happened when they were married.

 

What I do appreciate is the amicable nature of their divorce and the continuing relationship. We all still celebrate most holidays together and neither parent has tried to create a wedge between the kids and the other parent. They are a prime example of people who make better friends than lovers.

 

But what we saw growing up? Ugh. It is been a conscious effort to not mirror their patterns.

[WalkInThePark]

But what we saw growing up? Ugh. It is been a conscious effort to not mirror their patterns.

 

I second this. I would have been so happy if my parents would have divorced. None of them were bad people but they were not at their best in their marriage. And it caused an unhappy childhood for their children.

And it definitely caused difficulties for me in own relationships. It's hard to believe you can find love if you see that your parents don't manage to find it.

[lcm]

I'm unaware of your attempts at "making the marriage work," but I am a strong believer in counseling and communication. My wife and I hit a road block over a year ago, and I admited that I was not feeling the love that I thought we had. We both agreed to counseling, and while a lot of anger and resentment drove the first few sessions, it propelled us to talk about what we were feeling, how it certain actions made us feel, and led to a deeper love now that I thought we would ever have. I know some people just aren't meant to be together, and some people just flat aren't meant to be married, but I think you are better positioned to give counseling a try (it's cheaper than a divorce), and it may lead to a better environment for your child. As a child from a divorced family, I couldn't tell you which pain was worse: the years of fighting or the reality that came from the divorce. I don't think children should be the reason to stay together, but I do think children should be the reason to fight like hell before making that decision. Counseling is tough, tough stuff, especially for us guys, but it's value can't be overstated.

[Clep]

When we marry someone there is a reason we chose that person to walk with us through life. I think that is often forgotten and we start to justify through all sorts of ways how we would just be better off without them.

 

I believe we have the ability to choose to love, honor and cherish our SO until the death of one or the other.

 

I also believe that if both parties are willing any marriage can be saved as well as brought to the point of thriving, not just surviving.

 

I do not believe in divorce and wish more people would look at the idea of marriage courses, counselling and self help relationship books. Most people will read a manual to learn how to make something work, but will not apply that same idea to their relationships.

 

I choose to learn and grow with my SO to create a dynamic relationship. I am grateful to have that today and the drive and desire to maintain that.

 

My son does not currently have to be a statistic, go through the pain of divorce or carry the scars through adult life that divorce brings. My SO left the relationship before and watching the results of our son was enough to bring me to my knees. I would never recommend that to anyone.

 

Children are ill equipped emotionally or mentally to deal with the emotions that divorce brings even with support. Since they are ill equipped it makes sense to me that there would have to be some scars along the way. I won't be the one to make that choice for my children.

 

I hope everything goes well for your family.

[Got it]

When we marry someone there is a reason we chose that person to walk with us through life. I think that is often forgotten and we start to justify through all sorts of ways how we would just be better off without them.

 

I believe we have the ability to choose to love, honor and cherish our SO until the death of one or the other.

 

I also believe that if both parties are willing any marriage can be saved as well as brought to the point of thriving, not just surviving.

 

I do not believe in divorce and wish more people would look at the idea of marriage courses, counselling and self help relationship books. Most people will read a manual to learn how to make something work, but will not apply that same idea to their relationships.

 

I choose to learn and grow with my SO to create a dynamic relationship. I am grateful to have that today and the drive and desire to maintain that.

 

My son does not currently have to be a statistic, go through the pain of divorce or carry the scars through adult life that divorce brings. My SO left the relationship before and watching the results of our son was enough to bring me to my knees. I would never recommend that to anyone.

 

Children are ill equipped emotionally or mentally to deal with the emotions that divorce brings even with support. Since they are ill equipped it makes sense to me that there would have to be some scars along the way. I won't be the one to make that choice for my children.

 

I hope everything goes well for your family.

 

And as a child who's parents were married while I was growing up, the toxicity of that relationship has scarred us as well and all have been in therapy to deal with it.

 

A healthy relationship is the ideal. Whether that means together, married, or amicable and divorced. Parents acting like mature adults for the best interest of the children.

[Clep]

And as a child who's parents were married while I was growing up, the toxicity of that relationship has scarred us as well and all have been in therapy to deal with it.

 

A healthy relationship is the ideal. Whether that means together, married, or amicable and divorced. Parents acting like mature adults for the best interest of the children.

 

Sorry to hear that your parents made the choice to live in a relationship that sounds like it wasn't even surviving.

 

That however is not what I was speaking of, but was speaking of people that give it their all, work through things together, and that know the meaning of commitment. I was speaking of working towards a dynamic relationship and keeping that going strong. If that was the case there would not be children who lived like you did.

 

I am not sure if your parents went to therapy and really gave it their all, but maybe that would have spared all of you therapy. To me that would be parents acting like mature adults for the best interest of the children.

 

Sorry to hear you went through what you did.

[Kenyth]

I feel I am sometimes staying for the kids and I believe it is beneficial to them. My H and I currently are getting along, we laugh, there are no arguments no animosity. Our marriage is 50/50 loveless, it is not the most passionate marriage, but we are conveniently married and I do love my H for the most part. We are companions and our kids love their mom and dad together.

 

Your best bet is to both work on building the marriage back up again, if it's possible. See IC and MC to determine what is going on here.

[Got it]

Sorry to hear that your parents made the choice to live in a relationship that sounds like it wasn't even surviving.

 

That however is not what I was speaking of, but was speaking of people that give it their all, work through things together, and that know the meaning of commitment. I was speaking of working towards a dynamic relationship and keeping that going strong. If that was the case there would not be children who lived like you did.

 

I am not sure if your parents went to therapy and really gave it their all, but maybe that would have spared all of you therapy. To me that would be parents acting like mature adults for the best interest of the children.

 

Sorry to hear you went through what you did.

 

Clep,

 

I agree and think that is a wonderful thought. Realistically most people can not do the above. Or, let me say, choose not to do the above. Yes they did therapy. My mom was in therapy most of my childhood but if one cannot take ownership it doesn't matter how many hours are logged on the couch it isn't going to change anything. And one partner can try their hardest but unless both are 100% committed to giving 110% it isnt going to work.

 

But yes I agree with what you said and that is what I have strived to do in my relationships. I am not perfect, nor is anyone else I know. I don't have kids but I do have a wonderful relationship with my ex husband that I am quite humbled and thrilled by. Some times the love turns into friendship and that gives its own rewards. The ending also allows the parties to find someone that is more compatible with them. I am thrilled to say my ex has been living someone for over a year now and is just tickled pink by her. I think there will be wedding bells in the future and I couldn't be happier for him. I wouldn't change our relationship or our marriage and I am so happy for the time I got to spend with with him.

[del88]

I would actually come out and talk about it and if that's the decision, then I think it is sustainable. But, maybe confronting it head on can help you talk and resolve things. I have a family member who was married for 20 years and at some point they new their marriage was over, but decided to stay and live together like everything was okay until their 2nd daughter went to college, then they divorced. It seemed to work for them.

[Manchester Man]

I've heard troubled marriages if worked at are generally happy five years down the road.

Assuming no drugs, abuse or affairs.

So counseling if both will work at it.

Some things can't be fixed.

Just staying together as roomates seems like a gutless option.

I feel for you.

Divorce and shared custody is a wasteland I dread having to cross. But it would be a temporary pain.

[Nikki Sahagin]

Your kids will be happy that there parents are happy APART. No-one ever considers the guilt/self-loathing a child experiences in knowing that their parents stayed miserable for them.

[BlueeyedJonesy]

I grew up with 2 parents to stayed together for us for about 5 years or so..and when you get older and figure it out..it really sucks. It makes you feel like your parents just stayed miserable for you..

[pkn06002]

I wonder how many of you that had parents that stayed for the kids and you wish they did not would've liked the life you had if they divorced. Shuffled between homes, reduced cash to live on, no guarantee your parents would've been happy etc...

 

Studies show that the only kids that benefit from divorce are those where the marriage is high conflict. If it is a low conflict marriage the kids are better of mentally and financially if the parents figure out a way to co-exist until the kids are out of the home.

 

Kids do not volunteer to be in the marriage they are brought conscripted in. So too bad if you have to suck it up and stay while being unhappy, you owe it to the children since you brought them in. Why should the children have less of a life because their parents suck as a couple?

 

I am personally someone from a family where my parents stayed for the kids and I am glad they did. They eventually divorced when my sister and I were older and could deal with it better. I too am staying married for the same reason. Sure could I leave and find someone yes but at what cost to my child's life? Please do not give me the BS of kids will adapt, they are given no choice and therefor have too. I know kids that have adapted fine and others that have not, but studies and personal experience tell me that the ones from a whole home (low conflict) are better off.

[momoftwo]

I don't have an answer for ladydesigner but I can only say, I know how you feel. I am glad to at least know I am not alone but the decision is a very hard one and must be made cautiously

[momoftwo]

So all you with advice and seem to know so much (not meant to be rude): how do you know when to make that tough decision- how long is too long at trying? 6 months, 3 yrs, 6 yrs?????

[Luv2dance]

I wonder how many of you that had parents that stayed for the kids and you wish they did not would've liked the life you had if they divorced. Shuffled between homes, reduced cash to live on, no guarantee your parents would've been happy etc...

 

Studies show that the only kids that benefit from divorce are those where the marriage is high conflict. If it is a low conflict marriage the kids are better of mentally and financially if the parents figure out a way to co-exist until the kids are out of the home.

 

Kids do not volunteer to be in the marriage they are brought conscripted in. So too bad if you have to suck it up and stay while being unhappy, you owe it to the children since you brought them in. Why should the children have less of a life because their parents suck as a couple?

 

I am personally someone from a family where my parents stayed for the kids and I am glad they did. They eventually divorced when my sister and I were older and could deal with it better. I too am staying married for the same reason. Sure could I leave and find someone yes but at what cost to my child's life? Please do not give me the BS of kids will adapt, they are given no choice and therefor have too. I know kids that have adapted fine and others that have not, but studies and personal experience tell me that the ones from a whole home (low conflict) are better off.

 

I too have talked to a few adults who's parents waited til they were older to divorce and they felt bad knowing in hind-sight that the parents had lived those years unhappy just for the kids. I guess my question would be at what point is "old enough" to handle it? I heard or read something somewhere that said...Would you tell your children to stay in a situation like you are in knowing how they are feeling? I guess it really depends on the couple and how they choose to deal with the arrangement in the household.

 

pkn is this a mutual "staying for the kids"??

[aerogurl87]

When I first met my best friend back in 7th grade, her parents were separated and getting ready to divorce. When their divorce became final she was much happier than when I had first met her. When I asked her why, she said living with her parents being together was like hell. She now has trust issues and doesn't make friends easy. Staying together for the kids is the worse idea ever. My parents argued all the time in front of me when I was younger and that screwed up the way I communicated with others for a few years. And they loved each other. Just think how having your kids view the shell of a marriage while growing up will impact how they think relationships are supposed to be when they grow up.