FryFish Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Exactly what behavior must a woman exhibit before you would say that the man is justified in asking for a paternity test? Under what circumstances would it not be a deal breaker? example: Suppose she started having more and more late girls nights out just prior to becoming pregnant. This doesnt always mean cheating but it does statistically correlate with cheaters. So its a situation in which the marriage might be perfectly fine but also might not be. Its a red flag but not always a real problem. Would it be acceptable in this situation? Please, let me know what your grey areas are.
ADF Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 No one--or almost no one--is gonna admit to sleeping around. Not if they can help it. That is why when paternity tests are taken, it is often by court order. Your question is moot. People are not gonna own up to their behavior. They're just gonna keep trying to lie, rationalize, and make excuses. If a man has real doubts about paternity. I mean REAL doubts, the first person he needs to talk to is his lawyer, not his GF.
marsle85 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Would not be okay in the example you provided. I'm sure a lot of activities are correlated with increased promiscuity...however remember with correlations, we cannot assume one dictates the other. The only time I would feel a paternity test would be justified is if I was cheating on my husband and I came clean to him, or he was aware of it. Any other time for me- if he had no idea...he should not ask.
Author FryFish Posted March 8, 2010 Author Posted March 8, 2010 The only time I would feel a paternity test would be justified is if I was cheating on my husband and I came clean to him, or he was aware of it. Any other time for me- if he had no idea...he should not ask. What if your behavior raises red flags? So you think its not ok even if you ARE cheating but decided not to tell him?
New Again Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 If you don't trust your gf/wife, why the hell are you having a baby with her, let alone a relationship?
Author FryFish Posted March 8, 2010 Author Posted March 8, 2010 If you don't trust your gf/wife, why the hell are you having a baby with her, let alone a relationship?Please stay on topic. Often times people start out with trust and it diminishes slowly. Frogs dont jump out of warming water. So please have an answer or actual commentary on the subject.
Woggle Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 If you don't trust your gf/wife, why the hell are you having a baby with her, let alone a relationship? What if you don't fully trust any woman?
OpenBook Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Exactly what behavior must a woman exhibit before you would say that the man is justified in asking for a paternity test? When she asks you to join her on the Jerry Springer Show.
marsle85 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 What if your behavior raises red flags? So you think its not ok even if you ARE cheating but decided not to tell him? I'm not saying it's right at all- I've never cheated, never will... but theoretically: -I wasn't cheating, he didn't suspect me cheating: Not justified -I wasn't cheating, he did suspect me: He could ask, but I would NOT be okay with it. If not a dealbreaker, it would make for a very serious relationship discussion. -I was cheating, he didn't suspect me: Not justified. How would he know? In theory, there's no reason for him to ask me. -I was cheating, he did suspect me: I'm assuming we would have had some sort of discussion, and at this point- I wouldn't blame him. There is a line though- the definition of "justified." When looking at the situation- am I looking at it from my eyes...like "does he have the right to ask me this?" Or am I looking at objectively... "Does person A have the right to ask Person B...in this circumstance?" Conducting a study?
New Again Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Please stay on topic. Often times people start out with trust and it diminishes slowly. Frogs dont jump out of warming water. So please have an answer or actual commentary on the subject. I don't see how my comment is off topic, or is not an "answer or actual commentary on the subject". If you don't trust your wife (or gf as the case may be), you should dump her, rather than dumping a load in her on a regular basis, and otherwise engaging in activities that could result in a pregnancy. The end. I personally would never accept my SO asking for a paternity test as anything other than a dealbreaker, because if he doesn't trust me, the first I'm hearing about it definitely should not be a shocker when I tell him I'm pregnant with his baby. Jesus Christ.
Author FryFish Posted March 8, 2010 Author Posted March 8, 2010 In theory, there's no reason for him to ask me.Are you aware that between 3 and 30 percent of "fathers" are unknowingly raising kids that that they did not conceive? Even the low estimate of 3 percent seems reason enough for me, and apparently many others, to simply want one as a matter of policy. Does knowing that change your stance at all? Conducting a study? I was just surprised by the attitude on this subject. Im no more conducting a study than I am trying to convince everybody that I am right... That was only a half joke.
Author FryFish Posted March 8, 2010 Author Posted March 8, 2010 I don't see how my comment is off topic, or is not an "answer or actual commentary on the subject". If you don't trust your wife (or gf as the case may be), you should dump her, rather than dumping a load in her on a regular basis, and otherwise engaging in activities that could result in a pregnancy. The end.Well, relationships arent black and white so The End.
sally4sara Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 M'kay. Say me and dude had been having some trouble and decided to take a break. (I don't do the lets take a break thing but...) So we're on a break for say, a month or two, and decide to get back together. One month after we're back on, I end up pregnant. We collectively are fine with raising the kid together. I could see the guy asking for testing after the kid is born even if I said I had not been with anyone. But I'm not taking a needle in the gut for amnio DNA testing just because the guy can't invest some trust in me and stand by me while I go through the pregnancy. If he can't deal till after I give birth - he just doesn't have the mettle I seek in a partner. I'm not going to stay with a guy who turn the pregnancy into a water trial. Or A woman and her husband have been trying and trying to get pregnant. They finally go the artificial insemination of his sperm into her route. It is such a clinical experience that the guy just wants to make sure the doctors got the right swimmers in there. This one - I MIGHT - be willing to take a needle in the gut over.
marsle85 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Are you aware that between 3 and 30 percent of "fathers" are unknowingly raising kids that that they did not conceive? Even the low estimate of 3 percent seems reason enough for me, and apparently many others, to simply want one as a matter of policy. Does knowing that change your stance at all?Nope, I didn't know that. That's very interesting. I'm curious what your source is? Additionally, around 7% of moms are not receiving child support because the father up-and-left. Food for thought. Would you risk telling your partner if almost 1/10 men are predisposed to leave already? I don't see how my comment is off topic, or is not an "answer or actual commentary on the subject". If you don't trust your wife (or gf as the case may be), you should dump her, rather than dumping a load in her on a regular basis, and otherwise engaging in activities that could result in a pregnancy. The end. Well, relationships arent black and white so The End. This is a forum. I think Ruby's comments should be welcomed. And if relationships aren't black/white...how can you ask such a broad question of when a paternity test is justified?
Author FryFish Posted March 8, 2010 Author Posted March 8, 2010 And if relationships aren't black/white...how can you ask such a broad question of when a paternity test is justified? My question is entirely about the grey area so... Nope, I didn't know that. That's very interesting. I'm curious what your source is?There are many sources, that is why the range is so freaking ridiculous... I mean, 27 points... Additionally, around 7% of moms are not receiving child support because the father up-and-left. Food for thought. Would you risk telling your partner if almost 1/10 men are predisposed to leave already? You mean telling the partner that he isnt the father or might not be the father? If he isnt the father then he doesnt owe you anything for the child. As to your question about my thoughts on actual dead-beat dads... I had one. Start your own thread about it.
Author FryFish Posted March 8, 2010 Author Posted March 8, 2010 This one - I MIGHT - be willing to take a needle in the gut over. Thank you for your honest input. Perhaps more scenarios might come to mind.
marsle85 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 As to your question about my thoughts on actual dead-beat dads... I had one. Start your own thread about it. Why don't you just tell me what you'd like me to say, so as to not question or challenge your one-track mindset. Do not present this audience with undisclosed sources and critique anything that remotely disproves your thinking and expect a forum-based community to concede. True enlightenment and growth is generated from sharing experiences and thoughts. By limiting what others are "allowed" to say, you're limiting yourself.
Author FryFish Posted March 8, 2010 Author Posted March 8, 2010 critique anything that remotely disproves your thinking and expect a forum-based community to concede.No, I actually welcome being disproved. It helps me to grow as a person. Do not present this audience with undisclosed sourcesI do honestly apologize for this. The problem though is that there are many respectable sources that present wildly different numbers. I am going with the lowest I have seen so as to be as unbiased as possible. Why don't you just tell me what you'd like me to say, so as to not question or challenge your one-track mindset.I dont mean to be obtuse but I am simply trying to focus the conversation. The problem you bring up about dead beat dads is a very real problem and of course it is going to give women some fright when they see that almost 1 out of every 10 guys is likely to jump ship if they get pregnant. This is a very big deal... but it is not what THIS particular thread is about. I did not intend for this thread to be a one-upper conversation about which sex is worse than the other. That is why I invited you to make your own thread about your concerns. Not to silence you. True enlightenment and growth is generated from sharing experiences and thoughts.Yes, and in many other ways. Sometimes it "just happens". By limiting what others are "allowed" to say, you're limiting yourself. This is totally true. But in this case I am not limiting what others can say, they are free to say anything they want... I just ask that they do it in the appropriate thread. I would never have gotten a degree in computer science if I worked on art projects while studying maths...
marsle85 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Well alright. I'm not familiar with these confrontations usually ending so politely. So thank you. I revoke my attitude, haha.
Ruby Slippers Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 What's with all the paternity threads? I guess the guys are looking for another "problem" to obsess about. Are men the new women?
aerogurl87 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 I think it's ok if the baby looks like it has strong characteristics belonging to another race that neither parent is. (ex. baby looks black but both parents are Asian or white). Also if the woman has cheated in the past or gotten close to cheating (whether it be an emotional or physical affair) I see no problem with asking for one.
Stung Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 First off, because there are so many WILDLY varying findings in studies of this nature, I give the statistics being thrown around on these boards no credence. As you say yourself anything from 3% to 30% has been 'found' by various sources, so in my estimation the statistics are extremely unreliable. I have read studies stating the numbers are surprisingly high, I have read other studies very convincingly refuting this. Those posters quoting some 1-in-10 or 20% numbers as if they were gospel would do well to look a little harder at the studies themselves. There are of course circumstances in which men probably should ask for paternity tests. He doesn't know the woman well, she has been dating other people, he hasn't been with her long, he has always (and correctly) used condoms or he had a vasectomy or has some other reason to believe he is sterile, she was sexually assaulted*, or he has some reason to mistrust her, as in she has been caught in lies or shady behaviors before or is known to be a cheat. Unless they both know she has been dating multiple people or she was the victim of assault he should be prepared for her to feel insulted and embarrassed, but he should protect his own interests. However each situation is unique to the people involved. In the end it comes down to what kind of bond of trust they have forged between them. Personally I believe a lot of men on these threads are not accounting for the fact that asking for a paternity test is not only tantamount in most women's minds to accusing her of being a cheat, it is also tantamount to saying you suspect she is also of SUCH despicably low and deceitful character that she would also lie about the paternity of a child. That's a pretty tough accusation to swallow and for most faithful women will damage the bond of trust. In any case, when I personally was pregnant I would not have agreed to take a needle through my abdomen for anything; that test carries some risk of doing damage to the baby. If my husband had decided he wanted a paternity test after the birth for whatever reason, I would have agreed to it, but it would have changed the nature of our relationship and the way I looked at him forever, and we would have needed counseling to recover from it. FYI guys in a normal "first-world" pregnancy overseen by an OB-Gyn a woman is going to get a battery of STD tests, blood tests, and possibly genetic tests. If there is anything obviously off, like an STD or impossible blood types, you would likely find out anyway at this point. Also just an FYI: it is possible for a paternity test to give false results, i.e. tell you a kid is NOT yours when it really IS. Whoops! That would suck. *If she was raped/assaulted he might not want to know; if he does, he should damn sure make sure he is extra-sensitive about EVERYTHING regarding the pregnancy including asking about a paternity test.
bayouboi Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 If you don't trust your gf/wife, why the hell are you having a baby with her, let alone a relationship? That's kind of the whole point isn't it? How do you know that YOU are having a baby with her?
sweetjasmine Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 That's kind of the whole point isn't it? How do you know that YOU are having a baby with her? Um. So who's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to have unprotected sex with a woman you don't trust?
troggleputty Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Fryfish, the answer to your question is very simple. Any husband has the absolute legal right to take a swab of his child's cheek, send that in to a DNA testing lab, along with a sample of his own epithelial cells of course to see if there is a match. Now of course if the husband's brother is boffing his wife this might not be sufficient, I'm no expert on DNA testing. In any event, the "answer" whether the ladies like it or not, is that each of us has the right to exercise our legal rights as WE choose as a matter of personal autonomy. Any woman here who is reacting so strongly against the notion that their husband has the right to exercise his legal rights in this manner, to the extent that they claim they would leave him just for getting a test (which by the way I believe is probably baloney in most cases, they wouldn't leave over something like that; they might demand a nice vacation or something, but they wouldn't leave), is sending up a big fat "red flag" about their personal guilt feelings concerning their own, undisclosed inappropriate behavior. It seems like it's those women who post here, who want others to believe that they are the most morally scrupulous, are the same ones who "can't take the heat." They also miss the fact that they are more than willing to use emotional blackmail (the threat of divorce) to inhibit the taking of such a test. Some of these women brought up the issue of "well what about STD tests if the husband has been away on a business trip" etc. I have absolutely no problem with that at all. If my wife for whatever reason, is insecure about something like that, I might be somewhat irritated/feelings hurt, but I would certainly be more than willing to take an STD test for her, even if she has no rational basis for suspicion. That's because my spouse's feeling of security in our relationship is 1000x more important than my little ol' hurt ego. And of course--I know what the results of the test will be! Negative! (False positives which occasionally occur can be eliminated with re-testing by a different lab so that's not even much of an issue.) You see fryfish, if my wife thought I was cheating on her, and it was absolutely untrue, then I would have three thoughts in mind: 1) Do anything reasonably possible to reassure her/allay her concerns, and an STD test would be the absolutely easiest thing to do; 2) look at my own personal behavior to see if I might be behaving in some manner that might be giving her cause for concern (e.g. staying out late nights with the boys too often; ogling other women; making "comments" about how I find other women attractive; denigrating my wife in some way; sex life going bad; etc etc); 3) try to explore possible psychological issues my wife might be having (e.g. irrational/unjustified insecurities/fears might be a sign of a developing emotional problem in one's spouse). But....divorce her? You've got to be kidding me. Anyone who would even suggest it as a bluff has no real commitment to their relationship. And that's the message these ladies are actually sending us.
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