Jersey Shortie Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Thanks for clearing that up Three. 1. Succumbing to self-righteous rage is the definition of not liking any form of accountability, regardless of the substantive issue at hand. While I understand why the topic of such tests would be uncomfortable, the irrational rage this sparked defies any common sense (thereby hardening the position of people on the fence, who, like me would have been open to hearing the counter arguments, should an adult discussion had taken place, rather than childish temper tantrums.) What irrational rage are you talking about? Please pull qoutes where we can see this "irrational rage" and posters names that you think displayed "irrational rage" to back up your accusation. If you are unable to do this, then I and the others will assume that you can't do it because you have no proof of anything close to irrational rage expressed in this debate. I will await for your qoutes or for your excuse as to why you can't back up your accusation with proof. And your prid qou pro is yet another attempt to blame women for why you don't or do something. You want to talk about lack of accountability Mr.White, you exemplify it right here. Your told us in so many words your thoughts are mearly dependent on how others behave. For the sake of arguement, lets play with your ridiculous notion of "irrational rage", why would that reaction be dependent on how *you* act and think? Are you not incharge of your own thoughts? Are your thoughts and actiosn so dependent on women that you can't think or act without taking your cues from a woman first? Your post makes no sense.
sb129 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 As an example, I had a friend dating a flight attendant.. He had no reason NOT to trust her, other than she travels alot.. Basically, he trusted her. He never thought of her cheating. They were having unprotected sex, but he insists he never finished inside.. One day she is pregnant.. He asks for a paternity test, and she is DEEPLY insulted, etc etc.. She says "It's over, how can you not trust me blah blah blah" It turns out the baby was NOT his. So, of course she hated the idea of a paternity test.. Now she is a single mom, as opposed to being married to a decent provider.. For the ladies, how should he have known without a paternity test? Should all men just blindly believe whatever a woman tells them? Is that being a "doormat" that you so often say that you hate? Yes, and all women are like the flight attendant, aren't they? the only circumstances where a paternity test would be justified is if it was a new new relationship, a open relationship, a one-night stand or if cheating was involved. But just to assume the kids isn't yours in a long term relationship is just ick. Agreed. Originally Posted by threebyfate Do you believe that paternity tests stem from trust issues? YES, without a doubt If your husband or SO, asks you while you're pregnant or had just given birth, for a paternity test, would you be okay with this, insulted but resigned, or would you consider this a dealbreaker? If someone you're dating, mentions that he believes in generic paternity tests for any potential future progeny, would you be okay with this, insulted but resigned, or would you consider it a dealbreaker? If someone introduces the topic of a pat test as part of a prenup agreement, would you be okay with this, insulted but resigned or would you consider this a dealbreaker? If you found out that the father of your child, went and got a paternity test without consulting you, would you consider this okay, insulted but resigned, or would you consider this a dealbreaker? To all the above- dealbreaker dealbreaker dealbreaker Especially in my situation- my H and I had only been married two weeks when I fell pregnant- and we were actively trying to conceive. I can pinpoint the exact day when we did conceive. And our daughter looks like her father. If my H doubted our marriage that much as to demand a paternity test, I think I would have him committed as well as divorce him.
bayouboi Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Especially in my situation- my H and I had only been married two weeks when I fell pregnant- and we were actively trying to conceive. I can pinpoint the exact day when we did conceive. And our daughter looks like her father. If my H doubted our marriage that much as to demand a paternity test, I think I would have him committed as well as divorce him. I find it interesting that you declare that you can pinpoint the exact day you conceived & that your daughter looks like (I'm assuming you mean husband here because of course the daughter would resemble the father). The reason I find this interesting is because it would be easier to have said "My H and I had only been married two weeks when I fell pregnant and I would know whether or not I was sleeping with anyone else at the time and I wasn't."
Kamille Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 I find it interesting that you declare that you can pinpoint the exact day you conceived & that your daughter looks like (I'm assuming you mean husband here because of course the daughter would resemble the father). The reason I find this interesting is because it would be easier to have said "My H and I had only been married two weeks when I fell pregnant and I would know whether or not I was sleeping with anyone else at the time and I wasn't." What??? you're kidding right? You couldn't possibly be insinuating that SB skipped out on her relationship two weeks after being married to have sex with another man? The reason she didn't phrase it as "I would know I wasn't sleeping with anyone else" is because it goes without saying that SB wasn't sleeping with anyone else.
sb129 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 I find it interesting that you declare that you can pinpoint the exact day you conceived & that your daughter looks like (I'm assuming you mean husband here because of course the daughter would resemble the father). The reason I find this interesting is because it would be easier to have said "My H and I had only been married two weeks when I fell pregnant and I would know whether or not I was sleeping with anyone else at the time and I wasn't." I wasn't sleeping with anyone else at the time. And the reason I can pinpoint the exact day it took place was because it was on the day I ovulated, which also happened to be the day my father was diagnosed with terminal cancer which is why I will always remember it. Basic family planning- nothing more, nothing less. PS- thanks Kamille.
bayouboi Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 What??? you're kidding right? You couldn't possibly be insinuating that SB skipped out on her relationship two weeks after being married to have sex with another man? Not at all. I couldn't possibly know her well enough to make such a negative accusation. I just thought the choice of words were interesting considering that ambiguities are what bring about the male's POV on this issue to begin with.
sb129 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Fair enough. I understand what you mean. Hope my explanation clears that up.
Author threebyfate Posted March 8, 2010 Author Posted March 8, 2010 Thanks everyone, for your input. If any other female members with more than 300 posts and with over 6 months tenure, want to participate, plse do! If there are no more qualifying female member posts who previously haven't provided input, over a 24 hour period, this poll is considered closed, in that I won't bother recalculating the stats. Once again, no offense is intended towards the newer, real female posters. The following statistics have been generated, up to and including sb129: Do you believe that paternity tests stem from trust issues? Yes = 80.00% No = 2.50% Other = 17.50% If your husband or SO, asks you while you're pregnant or had just given birth, for a paternity test, would you be okay with this, insulted but resigned, or would you consider this a dealbreaker? Okay with it = 5.00% Insulted = 35.00% Dealbreaker = 60.00% If someone you're dating, mentions that he believes in generic paternity tests for any potential future progeny, would you be okay with this, insulted but resigned, or would you consider it a dealbreaker? Okay with it = 5.0% Insulted = 25.00% Dealbreaker = 70.00% If someone introduces the topic of a pat test as part of a prenup agreement, would you be okay with this, insulted but resigned or would you consider this a dealbreaker? Okay with it = 12.50% Insulted = 7.50% Dealbreaker = 80.00% If you found out that the father of your child, went and got a paternity test without consulting you, would you consider this okay, insulted but resigned, or would you consider this a dealbreaker? Okay with it = 0% Insulted = 17.50% Dealbreaker = 82.50%
bayouboi Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Hope my explanation clears that up. Glad mine did as well
sally4sara Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 I find it interesting that you declare that you can pinpoint the exact day you conceived & that your daughter looks like (I'm assuming you mean husband here because of course the daughter would resemble the father). The reason I find this interesting is because it would be easier to have said "My H and I had only been married two weeks when I fell pregnant and I would know whether or not I was sleeping with anyone else at the time and I wasn't." Ummm doctors are able to tell you the date of conception dude. Its pretty common to know the conception date well before you give birth.
sb129 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 PS- Of course I would know if I was sleeping with anyone else at the time. However its all down to my Hs trust in me that HE knows that as well. I guess the fact that our daughter looks like him is additional reassurance to that fact. Not that he really needed it- just saying..
bayouboi Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Ummm doctors are able to tell you the date of conception dude. Its pretty common to know the conception date well before you give birth. You kinda missed the point, dude, but those I addressed understood.
Ingenue Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Do you believe that paternity tests stem from trust issues? Sometimes they do If your husband or SO, asks you while you're pregnant or had just given birth, for a paternity test, would you be okay with this, insulted but resigned, or would you consider this a dealbreaker? I would be insulted and it would be a dealbreaker for me. If I'm married or committed to the man, I'm committed to him 100%. If he asks for a paternity test it shows that he has no faith in my sense of commitment and no faith in me or my word. I take commitment very seriously and if he has questions about my fidelity, he obviously doesn't know me very well at all. Plus, considering (though I've never gone through it) what an ordeal childbirth is, it's a bit of an insult for the man to say "hey, I need a paternity test to prove that the x hours of hell you just went through was really to produce my baby". If someone you're dating, mentions that he believes in generic paternity tests for any potential future progeny, would you be okay with this, insulted but resigned, or would you consider it a dealbreaker? Dealbreaker as well for the same reasons outlined above If someone introduces the topic of a pat test as part of a prenup agreement, would you be okay with this, insulted but resigned or would you consider this a dealbreaker? Dealbreaker for the same reasons outlined in response 2 If you found out that the father of your child, went and got a paternity test without consulting you, would you consider this okay, insulted but resigned, or would you consider this a dealbreaker? Insulted and a dealbreaker. Not only does he not have the gumption to confront me directly about his suspicions, but he does it in such a back handed way. For me relationships are about trust. I'd much rather he confront me personally and express those doubts to me in person than to take a test behind my back.
sb129 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 It doesn't actually say much for your sex life if your conception date and due date match up and you can count back and remember the actual "event". Newlyweds should be at it much more than we were at the time!
shadowplay Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Can doctors really pinpoint the conception date? How?
New Again Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 PS- Of course I would know if I was sleeping with anyone else at the time. However its all down to my Hs trust in me that HE knows that as well. I guess the fact that our daughter looks like him is additional reassurance to that fact. Not that he really needed it- just saying.. I read a study (will try to find it, but it was probably almost a year ago); don't remember the details, but had something to do with babies resembling their fathers to help the father bond with his child (as he obviously isn't able to bond the same way the mother does), and it was also mentioned that this was some kind of evolutionary tool, or whatever you want to call it, to assure the father that it was indeed his child, and he would bond and want to protect it.
Kamille Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Not at all. I couldn't possibly know her well enough to make such a negative accusation. I just thought the choice of words were interesting considering that ambiguities are what bring about the male's POV on this issue to begin with. All right - it makes sense to me too. I didn't realize the extent to which paternity was a source of anxiety for men. I have yet to meet a guy in real life who doubts the paternity of his children. But the fathers I know were all in loving relationships, trying to conceive a baby, so it makes sense that they would trust their partners at that stage doesn't it? I mean, if you're willing to raise a child with a woman, hopefully you trust her right?
Kamille Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 It doesn't actually say much for your sex life if your conception date and due date match up and you can count back and remember the actual "event". Newlyweds should be at it much more than we were at the time! You had a lot going on at that time as I recall. Glad to see you back on the board though! It's been awhile!
sb129 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Can doctors really pinpoint the conception date? How? By counting the days since your last menstrual period. Its how they work out your due date as well. Ultrasound scans are pretty accurate at measuring gestation age too so these back them up. I read a study (will try to find it, but it was probably almost a year ago); don't remember the details, but had something to do with babies resembling their fathers to help the father bond with his child (as he obviously isn't able to bond the same way the mother does), and it was also mentioned that this was some kind of evolutionary tool, or whatever you want to call it, to assure the father that it was indeed his child, and he would bond and want to protect it. I read that too. I know 10 babies all born about the same time as my daughter and about 3/4 of them look like their fathers. Sorry for off topic direction.
Author threebyfate Posted March 8, 2010 Author Posted March 8, 2010 When you first go to see your doctor, they ALWAYS use the date of your last menstrual period, as conception date, which of course, could easily throw out your delivery date. In an ultrasound, they measure fetal size in parts of the fetus' body, to determine the gestational age of the fetus. Ultrasounds are pretty accurate but not 100% foolproof.
calizaggy Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 I think what women on this thread are generally saying is that if you don't trust someone, then you shouldn't be getting married to and having a family with them. . So if women DO cheat, it is also men's fault for not knowing? Is it really this black and white? What if you later suspect a wife of cheating AFTER being married for a long time? It would be great if no women cheated, or if they cheated, became pregant, then later fessed up. Unfortunately that is not real life.
bayouboi Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 All right - it makes sense to me too. I didn't realize the extent to which paternity was a source of anxiety for men. I have yet to meet a guy in real life who doubts the paternity of his children. But the fathers I know were all in loving relationships, trying to conceive a baby, so it makes sense that they would trust their partners at that stage doesn't it? I mean, if you're willing to raise a child with a woman, hopefully you trust her right? Well I guess it depends on where the man's mind has been & where it's at currently. My own personal example is that I had complete trust in my ex-wife & the year that we were going to try to start having a baby was the same year she decided to have a baby with another person.
Kamille Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Well I guess it depends on where the man's mind has been & where it's at currently. My own personal example is that I had complete trust in my ex-wife & the year that we were going to try to start having a baby was the same year she decided to have a baby with another person. Ouch! Sorry to hear that.
Author threebyfate Posted March 8, 2010 Author Posted March 8, 2010 Well I guess it depends on where the man's mind has been & where it's at currently. My own personal example is that I had complete trust in my ex-wife & the year that we were going to try to start having a baby was the same year she decided to have a baby with another person.As someone who was also cheated on in her first marriage, I can relate to your pain. And yet, take a serious look at your ex-wife, which I'm sure you've already done. There were red flags, weren't there? I know with the ex-H, there were red flags that I ignored or quashed.
bayouboi Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 As someone who was also cheated on in her first marriage, I can relate to your pain. And yet, take a serious look at your ex-wife, which I'm sure you've already done. There were red flags, weren't there? I know with the ex-H, there were red flags that I ignored or quashed. I honestly had no clue at the time. I've learned a lot since then, however, by reading posts here in addition to a lot of relationship books.
Recommended Posts