Kamille Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Having said that, I still feel strongly that women could drive things back to where it is more desirable for what we want out of relationships with men, and that can only be achieved if women practice self respect. See, for me self-respect and respect for potential partners is the starting point. So here, we are completely in agreement. What do you mean how would we know!?!? I think this is entirely subjective. The men I dated in my twenties (10+ years ago) I could have considered lazy. But the problem wasn't with men, the problem was with me. I thought men were "lazy" when it came to relationships and that they feared commitment and that lead me to have very low expectations of my partners. Then I realized by being on this forum (and thanks to a marvelous ex) that a majority of men are out there looking for exactly the same thing I am: a loving relationship. That many of these men were more then willing to put in the effort to establish a healthy relationship. I have been single since and let me tell you, adopting the perspective that men are capable of love and commitment has steered me away from commitmentphobes and led me to men who are capable of commitment. I simply expect to be treated with respect and I offer respect in exchange. No games - and no waiting by the phone either. Just two people seeing if they can make things work between them. If you follow my threads on here, you'll see that I have been in and out of relationships. I was single when I joined (in 2006 I think), had a brief relationship in 2007-2008, and was single until August 2009. So yeah, I have a fair idea of what the dating world is like out there. I can also repeat: men haven't gotten lazy. Some men are perhaps lazy, some men are perhaps players, but a lot of men are perfectly capable of treating a woman right. I can also tell you that I usually enjoy being single - precisely because I know there are good men out there and am quick to let go off guys who don't meet my expectations.
Twenty-ten Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 I think this is entirely subjective. The men I dated in my twenties (10+ years ago) I could have considered lazy. But the problem wasn't with men, the problem was with me. I thought men were "lazy" when it came to relationships and that they feared commitment and that lead me to have very low expectations of my partners. I see. I think we are both saying the same thing but in different ways. If you were trying to have relationships with lazy men and had low expectations, fully knowing that they were this way then I would agree that it is a personal fault. But if you don't then how can you blame yourself for the men that you encounter that are used to having everything served to them on platter pretty much up front and effortlessly? I guess what I am trying to say is that I have encountered more men who wanted to cut corners as of the last few years, than I have my entire life. That has to account for what these men are used to getting otherwise it would be too much of a coincidence. I can't take responsibility for men who want quick fixes, because I am not one to settle or to have low expectations on the contrary. But these guys must be getting their whims met somewhere because they tend to expect it. I can see it when it happens and won't stick around for it but it doesn't mean they won't try.
Kamille Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 I didn't start relationships with these men knowing that they were lazy. I just put up with a lot of bs from unavailable guys because I thought once they fell in love with me, then they would magically convert into great bf. But I understand that your point is that you are being diligent about not putting up with poor behaviour and still running into a lot of "poor specimens". I still resist any process whereby a whole gender would be blamed for a recurrent pattern in someone's dating life. I have put in my time on this forum arguing with some of the guys on their theories about women. Usually, I agree with the assessment that if they keep running into the same pattern, there is probably something they're doing wrong. So, I'm inclined to do the same genders reversed. Where are you meeting these guys? Is it through on-line dating? I've always met the guys I dated through my real life social networks, so that could explain why my experiences are mostly positive. (And even if a guy didn't pan out to be a perfect gentlemen, I rarely held it against him, and certainly didn't hold it against men). I'd be curious to know what you mean by 'cutting corners'. What qualifies as cutting corners for you?
Mary3 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 My interpretation of the lazy men : I was on dating sites for about 5 years . In that , a VAST majority of the men , I would say 80% wanted to come over , eat pizza and make out. ( and more ) There were only about 5 % who wanted to actually go out on a date. Many wanted you to get MSN so they could masterbate or send naked pics. Its been 3 years since I dated online and men STILL want to send you naked pics via through Myspace and Facebook. Their favorite lines are : " Hey do you want to come over my place and meet me " ? " Hey its 10 PM and I was wondering if you wanted me to come over and hang out for a little while " " Hey what are you wearing right now " ? ( If I could kill that lame line I would be a millionare ) " Hey do you have bubble bath , I can give you a bath tonight " Of the 5 % who say " Hey would you like to go to Dinner " I always say yes. I know some disagree on dinner for a first date but ladies lets take it BACK to the days where thats the only option for men instead of meeting at a bar and trying to get you drunk. Okay, I am old fashioned. But guess what ? I refuse any date that comprimises my values and beliefs now. If they dont like it , they weren't worth meeting.
Kamille Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 I know some disagree on dinner for a first date but ladies lets take it BACK to the days where thats the only option for men instead of meeting at a bar and trying to get you drunk. Oh well yeah! A first date has to be a proper first date. In fact, the first few dates have to be proper dates. It isn't old-fashion, it's just common sense. I mean, you only get to have the romantic sizzle of the beginning of a relationship once you know? That's why it's important to make sure that every element is in place for a great, romantic, thrilling experience: no late night hook ups, no last-minute meetings, etc. And, in my experience, men love this part as much as women. (But yeah, they might try to cut corners and speed the process - but respond really well when women don't allow it).
threebyfate Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 No matter how men act, it's up to us whether we're willing to put up with bad behaviours. The more tolerant a woman is, to bad behaviours, the more she's going to get stepped on. Consider the genders interchangeable.
Twenty-ten Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 I didn't start relationships with these men knowing that they were lazy. I just put up with a lot of bs from unavailable guys because I thought once they fell in love with me, then they would magically convert into great bf. But I understand that your point is that you are being diligent about not putting up with poor behaviour and still running into a lot of "poor specimens". See I don't really do that. I don't put up with BS, as soon as I see signs of it I call them on it. Or if it's easier I just move on, depending how invested I am I will more than likely just move on instead of calling them on it especially if it is just a first few dates is not worth the hassle. . I still resist any process whereby a whole gender would be blamed for a recurrent pattern in someone's dating life. I have put in my time on this forum arguing with some of the guys on their theories about women. Usually, I agree with the assessment that if they keep running into the same pattern, there is probably something they're doing wrong. Well I only date guys so I can only comment on guys I can't say how women are these days other than what I read and hear from my friends. But I can say that women are willing to give much more in return for much less so I am not just gender bashing I am saying women give too much and men are more lazy. You can use "some" in there if it makes for a more digestible statement, but it's still the same sentiment. So if you are out dating you can't help running into the whole gambit of guys, if it were that cut and dry to meet perfect men why would we date? the first guy that walks by should be the perfect guy and end of story. Just so we are clear, I don't "keep running" into any pattern. I am currently happily in a relationship since last year now with a man who meets my expectations. He is no more no less than all the men I have ended up in long term relationships with. My observation was that in that last year that I was single I noticed a lot more men who had lazy attitudes about dating. I'd be curious to know what you mean by 'cutting corners'. What qualifies as cutting corners for you? wanted to go out on a date kept hinting at it after contacting me on FB, then when the time came he made it casual enough that he wanted me to go meet him where he would be out for the night and this is after him pursuing me quite a bit to see if I would go out. (not gonna happen, you wanna see me we can go out one on one I am not going to meet you out with your gang of friends) Then others we would be out on a date and we would go dutch and then invite me back to his place that same night (take a hike!) Then another one who when we went out for drinks he kept telling me what a great time we were having then at the end of the night he was "ok call me if you want to hook up again" I never did, then I ran into him a few months later and he was all surprised asking "wow what happened I thought we had such a great night why didn't you call me?" To which I said "same reason you didn't call me I guess at the end of the day there wasn't sufficient interest on both parts" haha-hee-hee (jokey jokey) . He said that wasn't true he was really interested. Pfft so call then, what's the problem? Stuff like that. I've never seen so much of this. I met the going dutch guy at work, the "call me if you want to hook up" at a house party, and the meet me out with my friend on FB through another friend. I had seen him out one night for a friend's b-day but we never spoke, he contacted me on FB.
Twenty-ten Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 I should clarify that those were the three lazy dates that stood out for me, I also had a bunch of really good dates just the spark wasn't there for one reason or the other. So it's not like that is ALL that is out there in terms of how guys act, but those three experiences is a lot more than I have lived through than something like that in the past. So clearly men are doing this more now a days then they did in the past. that is my conclusion.
Author Awesome Username Posted March 8, 2010 Author Posted March 8, 2010 I get waves of sad, and waves of totally fine. Surfin' USA!
Twenty-ten Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Aww hang in there AU, it's hard I understand. It was a nice high to do it but now reality sinks in, but the reality also is that when this passes you will be so happy for yourself that you had the strength to follow through with staying away. He wasn't good for you. Just remember that. You are too pretty and smart to be wasting your great qualities on someone that undeserving.
Author Awesome Username Posted March 8, 2010 Author Posted March 8, 2010 Aww hang in there AU, it's hard I understand. It was a nice high to do it but now reality sinks in, but the reality also is that when this passes you will be so happy for yourself that you had the strength to follow through with staying away. He wasn't good for you. Just remember that. You are too pretty and smart to be wasting your great qualities on someone that undeserving. Thank you for being here for me. Yeah, it's not as bad as I thought it might be (yet). I haven't been able to animate anything all month. I was just thinking about him ALL THE TIME. After this, I'm animating again already and taking care of myself more. I didn't expect this mental clarity. Whenever I remember that dream I had of his friend telling me not to date him and the fact that my premature feelings for this guy is probably just an analogy for my past loss, it gets easier. This situation is actually, honest to God, not his fault. He will be a wonderful person, with or without me. I just have to stay away from Chris Issac and Toni Braxton songs. Hahaha!
Mary3 Posted March 9, 2010 Posted March 9, 2010 They say that a man will ask 100 women to be his _______ buddy ( directly or indirectly ) and all he needs is for one to say Yes . So if we all band together and help the women that come on here who wonder what a real date is and are blindsided by a really hot guy who is always calling them to hangout and they wonder why they never do real dates , then thats what we can do to help. Lets try turning this around one woman at a time
alphamale Posted March 9, 2010 Posted March 9, 2010 I had a guy ask me out last night who thought that sleeping with people is a prequel to being exclusive... i would agree with him.
Author Awesome Username Posted March 9, 2010 Author Posted March 9, 2010 i would agree with him. According to some older posts, you said that you don't have friendships with women whom you do not date. However, you're also not exclusive (aka, truly getting to know) with a woman until she puts out. It sounds like that would be a difficult environment in which to get to truly get to know a woman, Alpha.
alphamale Posted March 9, 2010 Posted March 9, 2010 According to some older posts, you said that you don't have friendships with women whom you do not date. i have female aquaintances but not friends However, you're also not exclusive (aka, truly getting to know) with a woman until she puts out. i like to "handle" the goods before i buy It sounds like that would be a difficult environment in which to get to truly get to know a woman, Alpha. no not really, women like men who are aloof and mysterious
Author Awesome Username Posted March 9, 2010 Author Posted March 9, 2010 Guy is texting me, excited to see me at an upcoming event. Looks like someone didn't read the breakup letter yet. :.C
SadandConfusedWA Posted March 9, 2010 Posted March 9, 2010 AU, in my late teens to early 20's, I have been treated poortly by friends, men, co-workers etc. They treated me poorly because I was a doormat and too afraid to speak up. So I tolerated everything. And the more I tolerated, the worse it got. I shudder to think how badly the guy that I lost my virginity to treated me. Then somehting in me snapped. In the last few years I don't put up with any BS. Be it friends, family, work, dates. I speak up and say what I think. I am also prepared to walk away from anyone and anything at any time. Now I just need to find that fine line between speaking up too much and creating unnecesseary conflict. And you know what? All my relationships drastically improved. People just....respect me more. I still don't have a serious bf, but that's due to other issues. At least I am not being treated like s#$& by anyone. And you did the right thing. Just please don't go back on your word. Speaking up and then going back on what you said is even worse than not speaking up at all.
threebyfate Posted March 9, 2010 Posted March 9, 2010 If you sent the letter as an attachment, it might be sitting in his spam box. Or reliant on how you worded it, he might have gotten the wrong idea. Just text him back and suggest he check his email.
sagetalk Posted March 9, 2010 Posted March 9, 2010 It sounds like that would be a difficult environment in which to get to truly get to know a woman, Alpha. I'm sure that really bothers him something awful while he's banging the heck out of her in his bedroom.
jerbear Posted March 9, 2010 Posted March 9, 2010 Guy is texting me, excited to see me at an upcoming event. Looks like someone didn't read the breakup letter yet. :.C YARRRRRRRRRRRGH I think LC then NC is the way to go.
gypsy_nicky Posted March 9, 2010 Posted March 9, 2010 This situation is actually, honest to God, not his fault. He will be a wonderful person, with or without me. its nice that you are able to identify a person as a whole and not by his actions alone. Still do not forget the fact that it wasn't just you that caused this situation but him as well. Try not to invalidate what he did to you but acknowledge it and learn from it.
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