GreenEyedLady Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 You know, this is the equivalent of the OW claiming she's pregnant. IF the BS truly tried to commit suicide, then that's her own mental illness. It is a person's truly selfish choice to end their life. And while I realize that it comes from a place of thinking their is no end to the despair the feel, I JUST DON'T GET IT. How are we educating women? That a man and a R is the end all be all of our world? Women need to grow a pair and start respecting themselves. If we cannot respect ourselves, NO MAN WILL EITHER. I don't know how many people here remember, but I was a BS. I never have identified as one due to the circumstances and the fact that my 1st M deteriorated due to other reasons. I had young children (very young) and while I wished I would go to sleep at night and never wake up, I found the strength and left his sorry ass. I really do not get the mindset of staying with someone who sh*** on you on a regular basis and then whining about it and doing nothing. We all have a choice. We have a choice to try and have the best, happiest life or we can choose to stay with our current f-ed up existence. If you choose to do nothing, it's still a CHOICE. Doesn't matter the reason. So I think everyone should stop whining about their current circumstance. YOU are in the place you are because YOU want to be there. And regardless of whether it happened or not, it's HIS problem, not yours. Don't let him deflect the blame. Hold YOURSELVES accountable. GEL
pureinheart Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 Having sensed in the beginning of H4U's sitch that she was dealing with some major issues with exMM and W from having experience in this area. The big red flag is the obsessing part. I have done this to varying degrees also and found I was giving too much time, thought and energy to something that was dead already. I found that forums, such as these and councelling is the best way to handle my love life, or lack of. Keeping a journal is a non destructive method also. This should be a good lesson to whoever reads this thread and needs it, to NEVER allow a person, place or thing have that much power over our emotions. We have all felt the deep depth of despair, although attempted suicide is sending a message loud and clear. What that message actually is only exMM's W knows. I felt the impact of tough love from the posters that are on the same page as far as BB's, Califnan's and GEL's. They are right. Having come close to suicide myself, it is that type of love that is needed to snap out and get right. Your posts really helped me see how many people I would have hurt/affected had I followed through with a "thought". My heart goes out to all the parties involved....so much hurt and pain for everyone...I hope everyone rises up and steps up to the plate.
Author hopeless4u Posted March 7, 2010 Author Posted March 7, 2010 She's had a breakdown, all the lying and deceiving, gaslighting, bullcrap for months and months now. I feel for her. Noone knows what truly is going on in their home so it's not cool to assume the worst of her. I hope she gets some help, heals and divorces this guy. He is a scumbag and he IS responsible for alot of what's been going on. He has created this mess in their lives, and chosen to still lie and omit truths to her. It's awful that this has happened, but it's a wake up call..For EVERYONE involved. Now, you need to ignore them, block their calls, and move on, never look back. Don't get involved or be part of this anymore, even though she called you, keep in mind that you were the one who promised her the truth many months ago and chose to omit alot of the truth from her then - Anyway, this all has to stop so everyone can heal. Question is, can you handle seeing him daily and working with him? I don't have to see him daily, he has to come into my office sometimes for meetings, in the past he has used it as an opening to talk to me as I have always said I'd be professional at work but this time I told him not to speak to me and if I saw him on the stairs I would be civil towards him and nothing more. TBH he has kept his side this time, he's stayed away from my office and when I knew he was coming in I booked time off so I wouldn't see him, things were going well or so I thought!!
Author hopeless4u Posted March 7, 2010 Author Posted March 7, 2010 She stayed because she loves him, the same reason until a few weeks ago YOU stayed. She has years and a history with him. She also figured out he was gaslighting her and lying to her. I don't like people 'assuming' she overdosed for attention or for him. Won't those same people judging her that way feel bad if she isn't okay or if she didn't make it? Many people struggle with depression .... I lost a very dear friend who suffered crippling depression. The assumptions that she did it to get his attention are really unfair when NONE OF US know her. I don't mean to sound harsh, but you invited this drama into your life when you chose to start messing with a married man. You chose to participate knowing he was married. You are involved because you were one of the participants. I know you are hurting, but you haven't invested your life with someone who is nothing more than a lying cheat. For her to end her relationship with him it is going to take more than just going NC. I have taken ownership of the A and I thought things were moving forward, they were making their M work and I had to except that. For the first time I since this whole mess started I was seeing things clearly and although I was still hurting I could see what a fool I'd been thinking he truly loved me and the fact that he'd kept up the NC this time only made that stronger for me. This has just knocked me sideways TBH. I don't even know if she is ok and as much as I think the OD isn't my fault I can't help but worry.
Author hopeless4u Posted March 7, 2010 Author Posted March 7, 2010 Love how this all falls back on the wife. I'm being sarcastic ofcourse. She has been lied to for MONTHS by both Hopeless and her husband. Ddays happen, over and over, promises were made by hopeless to call MM's wife if he attempted contact. She lied back then, weeks ago about this, omitted truths.. Now, she comes clean and MM's wife is REELING. Yet, it is ALL HER (WIFE) fault that she's having an emotional breakdown and did something extreme.... Not MM's fault at all.. OK, sure. This phonecall wasn't about the contact weeks ago, that all came out last DDay. The conversation was more about what HE had told her about his feelings for me. She asked me how he'd left things with me, how he told me he felt about me and so on. Please don't think I'm having a go at his W, I'm truly not. We all deal with things in different ways and she's obviously been pushed over the edge by all this but as I told her, I have no control in what HE has said to her or to me, she asked and I told her the truth.
Author hopeless4u Posted March 7, 2010 Author Posted March 7, 2010 Thank you very much.. How easy people forget, 3 week ago she was talking really bad about the wife blaming her for everything and praising the hell out of him. This is after discovery day... http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t221202/ And now you want to do the right thing and come clean.. I came clean to his W a long time ago, the only thing I haven't been truthful with is the contact at work and him ringing me, which was weeks ago and she knew about that weeks ago. This had nothing to do with all the previous contact. I do see things very different now and the posts you are referring to are when I was hurting badly. I posted here at that time to vent and get the kick I needed to get where I am now, this phonecall was completely out of the blue and on my landline so no caller ID.
Author hopeless4u Posted March 7, 2010 Author Posted March 7, 2010 And I can relate to her saying that about how much she loved him. This sounds like a woman that barely ever stands up for herself and just felt so totally powerless given that she loves and all he seems capable of doing is taking and never being responsible. Be very glad that you are in this position to see the kind of person he is when the going gets tough. Seeing it even from a distance is distasteful. He's a coward at heart. He can't even face the result of his own deceit alone. He needed to tell you to find the strength to face it. And he only found that strength by blaming you, at that. Imagine the position that she is in with him. Could you even want to live like that? What I am going to say next is likely to make some wonder if I have lost my mind. Ignore them and forget about this. You don't need the outcome of what is going on in their marriage affecting you right now. Everything he tells you from here on out is to pull you in to emotionally supporting him. And your doing so will continue to hurt her, and I know you don't want to do this. I think the kindest thing you can do in your concern for her wellbeing is to move on completely and let him deal with the mess he made of his M and his W's emotional wellbeing. This is a case, IMO, not owing them anything. The A has been over for some time. He continued to contact you and lie about it. You have been here trying move forward, and understandably (and honestly, sometimes annoyingly ) torn when he's the one constantly giving you hope and doing everything he could to pull you back in. I truly believe it was his actions that pushed her too far. I must warn you, though. This will get around your office. He's already told you about the overdose. He's likely going to call in sick to be with her and tell everyone why. Office affairs are almost always known about, even when the participants think they've been very careful. The advice above may make you seem cold and bitter because you refuse to talk abuot this at work. But you have to consider that any and everything you say will be scrutinized for any hint of ill regard for his W. People will also be looking to blame you as much as him for this. We never can know the outcome of even our best laid plans. I'm so sorry that you had to have this experience in the extreme in having chosen the affair but not being able to choose the outcome/fallout. (I rambled. I'm sorry) I do intend to keep up complete NC with him although it is playing on my mine whether she is ok I won't contact either of them. Ha Ha yes annoying myself along with everyone else I'm sure! But I am in a better place now, this has thrown me a bit but I think I'm strong enough now to keep moving forward. Work won't be an issue, he isn't based at my office and he has told his boss months ago he had M problems. I just keep telling myself the same as I told his W, I can not control what he thinks, says or does and neither can she. He will do what he wants to do and that is just how it is. The only control I have is how I deal with it all and its been a very long road but I'm getting there.....
bentnotbroken Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 You know, this is the equivalent of the OW claiming she's pregnant. IF the BS truly tried to commit suicide, then that's her own mental illness. It is a person's truly selfish choice to end their life. And while I realize that it comes from a place of thinking their is no end to the despair the feel, I JUST DON'T GET IT. How are we educating women? That a man and a R is the end all be all of our world? Women need to grow a pair and start respecting themselves. If we cannot respect ourselves, NO MAN WILL EITHER. I don't know how many people here remember, but I was a BS. I never have identified as one due to the circumstances and the fact that my 1st M deteriorated due to other reasons. I had young children (very young) and while I wished I would go to sleep at night and never wake up, I found the strength and left his sorry ass. I really do not get the mindset of staying with someone who sh*** on you on a regular basis and then whining about it and doing nothing. We all have a choice. We have a choice to try and have the best, happiest life or we can choose to stay with our current f-ed up existence. If you choose to do nothing, it's still a CHOICE. Doesn't matter the reason. So I think everyone should stop whining about their current circumstance. YOU are in the place you are because YOU want to be there. And regardless of whether it happened or not, it's HIS problem, not yours. Don't let him deflect the blame. Hold YOURSELVES accountable. GEL GEL you aren't the only one who doesn't get that mindset. It's hard to explain other than it made feel as if I were drowning and all the images beneath the water seemed so peaceful.....I wanted that peace. We never know what's in some one's past that as damaged them enough for this to be an option. Though the actual choice of suicide is entirely on the shoulders of the person who does it, the people around them who intentionally abused, deceived, and disrespected them own the action of the "push" that sent them to the edge.
OWoman Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 You know, this is the equivalent of the OW claiming she's pregnant. IF the BS truly tried to commit suicide, then that's her own mental illness. It is a person's truly selfish choice to end their life. And while I realize that it comes from a place of thinking their is no end to the despair the feel, I JUST DON'T GET IT. How are we educating women? That a man and a R is the end all be all of our world? Women need to grow a pair and start respecting themselves. If we cannot respect ourselves, NO MAN WILL EITHER. I don't know how many people here remember, but I was a BS. I never have identified as one due to the circumstances and the fact that my 1st M deteriorated due to other reasons. I had young children (very young) and while I wished I would go to sleep at night and never wake up, I found the strength and left his sorry ass. I really do not get the mindset of staying with someone who sh*** on you on a regular basis and then whining about it and doing nothing. We all have a choice. We have a choice to try and have the best, happiest life or we can choose to stay with our current f-ed up existence. If you choose to do nothing, it's still a CHOICE. Doesn't matter the reason. So I think everyone should stop whining about their current circumstance. YOU are in the place you are because YOU want to be there. And regardless of whether it happened or not, it's HIS problem, not yours. Don't let him deflect the blame. Hold YOURSELVES accountable. GEL I agree with this, ultimately... ...but, I have counselled enough abused women to know how tenuous a grip on reality one can be left with, and how far one's "right mind" can be from operational as a result of sustained abuse. I'm not claiming this BW was abused - I know too little of the situation to make that call - or that this in any way absolves her of the responsibility that she CHOSE to remain in a situation that led to her emotional and mental collapse. However, sometimes these choices are made in the absence of the reserves required to make the "healthy" choice - to leave an abusive R, or to pick oneself off the floor and stop acting like a doormat, or to take responsibility for one's own life and make the changes you'd like to see. Sometimes it's just easier to go with the flow and take what someone else dishes out, and float like a jellyfish. I saw it with my H too - after decades of "gaslighting" from his thenW his view of reality was anything but. It took time, hard work and counselling for him to grow what he needed to pull the plug on that toxic M and walk away. He needed to take the responsibility for his own bad choices that had led - and kept - him there, and to do something about changing that. He had the A as a source of positive energy and affirmation to help him step outside of that abused mindset, so he was more easily able to do it than without that - but it did require him to own his own choices and take back agency in his own life. Unless this MM enslaved this BW, she is where she is due to her own bad choices, and she needs to own that and deal with her own consequences. I'm assuming she lives in the US, where she'd have access to medical and psychological care, so her choice not to make use of those services indicates that she'd prefer to be where she is - dependent, weak, free of the responsibility for her own life. That's her choice, and it's not for us to pity or condemn her for it anymore that it is for us to judge anyone else whose choices differ from ours. That said, her H behaved appallingly by trying to guilt-trip h4u. It's not h4u's responsibility that his W ODd. Nor is it his. It's the Ws - and that responsibility for that choice should be left there. Sure, he may have been negligent in not recognising quite how broken his W was, and perhaps he should have had her committed if she was not able to make sane choices, but ultimately that responsibility should be left on her lawn for her to pick up when she's ready. Pushing it onto someone else, or picking it up for her, does her no favours - it keeps her dependent and weak.
Samantha0905 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 (edited) So I took the advice from here and from my friends. xMM went back to his W after 3 weeks away as expected. I initiated complete NC including work, told him he has chosen to be with his W and that means a life without me in it as I won't lie to her. It was the hardest thing I've ever done but I did it and stuck by what I'd said. Its been 10 days. xMM was coming into my office yesterday so I booked the afternoon off work so I wouldn't see him, came home and felt ok. Anyway to cut a long story short, xMM's W rang my home number last night (no caller id). She was crying and all over the place saying she needed to talk to me as she needed the truth...we talked, I answered her questions, again....So after an hour of her basically telling me she couldn't live like this and she loved him with every bone in her body....you get the picture (wasn't nice to hear) she finally hung up. I was nothing but polite, maybe a little blunt at times but answered her truthfully. Then an hour or so later my mobile phone rang with a number I didn't know, it was xMM asking what had been said as his W had taken an overdose!! So obviously more was said but I've tried to keep it as short as possible. Should I of lied, hung up?? I haven't read this thread yet. I will go back and do it after I post. I'm so sorry this happened. Although I don't particularly care for the idea of an affair partner calling a spouse to tell of an affair in a fit of anger, indignation, revenge, etc., I do think if a spouse calls and asks -- yes, honesty is best. I hope his wife is okay. She needs to get help and get away from him. Edited March 8, 2010 by Samantha0905
fooled once Posted March 9, 2010 Posted March 9, 2010 GEL, I think you made very good points in your post. Like you, I wonder why so many women accept less than they deserve. But I also know I stayed in a marriage longer than I should have - maybe out of weakness, fear...I honestly don't know. But I did get out of it! While I think we each do own our own choices, there are many things that can easily push someone over an edge. I read all the time about these kids in school who are taking their lives due to bullying -- so many young kids killing themselves because of being called names, being bullied, being harassed. As adults, we hope we have better tools to handle it, but I think many adults don't have those tools. Marie Osmond's son just committed suicide -- whatever was going on in his life was just too much for him. Same thing with that actor who had been on growing pains. Depression can be a very debilitating disease and some people still have hangups with the suppose "stigma" of admitting they are depressed and need help and then there are those that use depression as an excuse for their behavior. I guess no one can really know what is going on in anothers mind. We just have to - IN MY VIEW - live our life without hurting people, as much as possible, in the process.
White Flower Posted March 9, 2010 Posted March 9, 2010 GEL, I think you made very good points in your post. Like you, I wonder why so many women accept less than they deserve. But I also know I stayed in a marriage longer than I should have - maybe out of weakness, fear...I honestly don't know. But I did get out of it! I stayed much longer than I should have as well. I think we do that in order to overcome, be strong and have that long-suffering quality. But if one waits too long it can turn into an ugly depression. That's when you know you have to get out. While I think we each do own our own choices, there are many things that can easily push someone over an edge. I read all the time about these kids in school who are taking their lives due to bullying -- so many young kids killing themselves because of being called names, being bullied, being harassed. As adults, we hope we have better tools to handle it, but I think many adults don't have those tools. Marie Osmond's son just committed suicide -- whatever was going on in his life was just too much for him. Same thing with that actor who had been on growing pains. Depression can be a very debilitating disease and some people still have hangups with the suppose "stigma" of admitting they are depressed and need help and then there are those that use depression as an excuse for their behavior. I guess no one can really know what is going on in anothers mind. We just have to - IN MY VIEW - live our life without hurting people, as much as possible, in the process. Getting help and changing your circumstances is key to overcoming depression, otherwise you are right...it can become very debilitating.
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