cuppa Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 So last time, my husband promised that we will go through marriage counseling to deal with our issues. 6 weeks passed and no words/actions to follow up on his promise. Last night, I was meeting my best friends. I feel sad that they are all feeling very sorry for me. So after 2 glasses of wine, I finally told them these words, that my husband robs me a chance of motherhood. After I came home and laying on my bed, I started crying. My husband asked me what happened and then I started telling him the exact same words. I told him that it's painful and I said those words "You rob me a chance to be a mother". I woke up this morning and he wrote me a beautiful letter. He cried and it broke my heart to pieces. Anyways, I am in no win situation. I can't leave him because I love him and I can't live without him. I have yet reached a point where my heart turns cold, just like most women who walked out from their marriage. Here is what he wrote, I hope that we can work this out or I can deal with the pain so that it no longer becomes a thorn in our relationship. I edited his company and my companies' names in there. I am sorry that I write only under this circumstance, I suppose this is no small part of my deficiency. Anyways, it’s been over 11 years since we have known each other, much of it great memory, sometimes rough, but I would always cherish it regardless of where we go from here. We didn’t start so well, through no fault of yours, I wasn’t pleasing the first time we met. I was pissed for having to wait for an hour, but underneath the long face, I certainly felt that it was well worth the wait. I quickly felt for you, as you know, for the cute smile and the out going personality. Though you may not agree with me, but I have great respect for you having to struggle initially after graduation, and the drive to be successful. I knew that you had what it takes to climb out of the situation you were in. It was very sweet, although I wish I had handled some of the situation better back then, but I tried my best to navigate situations where I am really not used to. You encouraged me to get out of the crappy situation in the original [his company] group, and hooked me up with friends in Portland, even though I was the older one and had lived there longer. Though we fought often then, it was mostly for us to know each other better, and we always bonded stronger after. I did not think there were issues not resolvable at that time, but from recent chats we had, I was perhaps wrong. Anyways, then you took the offer from Bechtel and moved down here. Frankly, I was happy and proud for you, on how quickly you moved up the ladder. Though it would be difficult at times, I did not think long distance relationship would be a problem, misconception from my family situation perhaps (although I have no right to blame anyone, I am an adult and shall be responsible for everything I did. But I want to apologize how my family treated you). Although I want you to be my life long partner, it took a few kicks before I got my acts together, sorry, I am a passive person. Your parents were so nice to me, and although I was confident that proposal to your parents for you would be okay by your parents, I was nervous and happy nonetheless. I am so sorry that I never made it memorable to ask you to marry me; it would have made you happy. Then we got registered, and proceeded to plan the wedding. At that time, I thought everything was fine and we would live happy ever after. Though tiring, I enjoyed flying down to SF almost weekly, and pig out with you. It wasn’t until a few months prior to the wedding when there was real strain (at least in my mind that this is the first real problem) in our relationship. But I thought no big deal, we have worked out problems and we will surely work these issues out sooner rather than later. I moved down here and the job situation wasn’t great, but wedding was something to look forward to, and I am glad that you got the wedding you wanted. It was a beautiful wedding and that you and your family, especially your mom, did very well to put it together. After the wedding, house hunting was next on the agenda. It was stressful, yet exciting time. We looked at so many houses, and finally settled here. Settled was the right word I suppose….then we went back to deal with crappy job situation and things did not go well after. We had the big fight in LA, and then thank god we got Ashton and subsequently Toby to save our relationship at that time. Fast forward to last year, when your job situation was stressful, at [Company1] and [Company2]; I truly thought [Company 1] may direct your attention away from [Company1]’s situation. If you felt resentful for me to encourage you to take on [Company2], I am sorry. It was a wrong decision looking back. As for handling the whole situation, I really did not know what I was doing. I handled it the best I could, never had any malice in hurting you in anyway, though I know I did hurt you. I am sorry that I wasn’t there for you. Now, I am not sure how to go forward. It hurts me deeply to see you hurt, but I don’t know if I could ever be the man and the husband that you had envisioned. In wanting to correct the situation, I am making things worse. Has things reached the irreparable? It breaks my heart to see you cry, to hear you say that I rob you a chance to be a mother. It is easy to advise others to get on with life, as I have done with my brother. But it is infinitely more difficult when I am the one to face the grim reality of losing the woman I love so dearly. I truly tried to rectify the situation, and I know you gave it all as well. I feel like the mother in King Solomon’s famous splitting the baby story. Logic says that the true mother shall give the baby away, but emotionally, it’s absolutely difficult to do so. Whatever happens, thank you for being my partner, my wife, and my soul mate. I wish there are many chapters in the story of our life together to come, as for how, we will have to sort it out.
TinyLee222 Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 I am so sorry Cuppa you have done you best. Please read the letter again especially the last two paragraphs. He doesn't want to be in the marriage anymore but isn't man enough or brave enough to say so. There are so many other men out that will love you and cherish you! Get yourself some IC, get strong and get out. I wish you only the best. Lee
Luv2dance Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 I don't know your whole story, but from reading that letter I would agree that it sounds like he is looking for a way out. Sorry you are going through a tough time.
Ecosse Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 I disagree with you two... I read that he wants to make it better... He doesnt know what to do but feels bad about where things are ATM. I dont see any outs written in there... Talk with him... Plan to see the councilor (make plans together) Next time you see him just give him a hug and kiss... tell him you love him and make arrangements to see the MC...
WalkInThePark Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 I disagree with you two... I read that he wants to make it better... He doesnt know what to do but feels bad about where things are ATM. I dont see any outs written in there... Talk with him... Plan to see the councilor (make plans together) Next time you see him just give him a hug and kiss... tell him you love him and make arrangements to see the MC... He doesn't know what to do? Euh... I beg your pardon? All he has to do is to take the bloody phone and call a councellor for an appointment. Talk to him? Is that not what cuppa has tried doing all along? And give him a hug and a kiss? Why does HE not give her a hug and a kiss. Cuppa, I'm sorry to hear you have not made any progress but at the same time that was what I expected. And that's what I see happening in a lot of situation described here on LS. You would like to have kids. You are still young enough to have them. But if you stay with this guy it won't happen. Please avoid that you will be in the same position as you are now in 5 years. I really feel that this man is manipulating in a very subtle way. He refuses to deal with his issues. Start mourning your marriage. Accept that he refuses to man up to give you children. That means that he does not love you, not like a man should love his wife.
Ecosse Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 At risk of stealing the thread here... The specifics are in the past... so lets leave them there eh? Im sure that there are plenty specific reasons that they each feel wronged... IMO its time to leave that shiz in the past and make forward steps... I think the guy is hurting... Maybe he is too stubborn to be the one to initiate this, maybe he feels wronged and wants an apology... I dont know but I will say someone needs to be the bigger person... "And give him a hug and a kiss? Why does HE not give her a hug and a kiss"... how is that helping? How is that making anything better at all? I see it as driving a wedge between them... Your Husband loves you... he wouldnt take the time to write that long letter if he didnt care anymore... You wouldnt be on here writing/reading this if you didnt care either So I say just take some positive steps together... make the appt with the MC together and have some mediation when you get to the tougher stuff... At least this way you KNOW you tried everything... Good luck and dont quit just yet
Author cuppa Posted March 7, 2010 Author Posted March 7, 2010 I disagree with you two... I read that he wants to make it better... He doesnt know what to do but feels bad about where things are ATM. I dont see any outs written in there... Talk with him... Plan to see the councilor (make plans together) Next time you see him just give him a hug and kiss... tell him you love him and make arrangements to see the MC... So last night, what triggered the whole event was that I dressed up for a dinner. I know I looked very nice and all my best friends commented on how cute I looked that night. So my husband came and joined us for the dessert. We had a great time. When we were home, I came to him, kissed him, hugged him, I even had nice lingerie on but as usual, it stopped at that. I guess things came at me in waves...disappointment, rejection, and all these things came one after another. That's when I finally broke down and told him those words (that I know will hurt him too). He's not very expressive person, he's very kind and gentle but not good at expressing himself (hence letters are our best communication). I did hug him and kiss him in the morning (that's when I found out that his eyes were wet, so he's been crying all night). I sent him this letter a few hours ago. Until last year, I had never once envisioned life without you. Yes, I was awake at night, thinking about whether I could accept this life for the rest of my life but I never seriously thought about leaving or finding my own apartment. I should never blame you for my job situation, I am a grown up, adult woman. I myself don't know how to set a limit for myself. What I think is going through with me right now is that I am masking a lot of my pains such as the possibility of giving up motherhood or the possibility that we can never regain the intimacy in our marriage. It has been for the past few years. Works used to be my outlet, now, it's my exercise. The truth is that up until last year, I always ask your opinions on what to do with my life. I draw a lot of strong emotional support from you. Do I see you and I grow old together, walking hands in hands, watching sunset together in our old days? Yes, I do. Will I ever find a kind husband who cooks my favorite soup when I was ill or a man who came to my apartment in the morning and cleaned the snow out of my car, warmed it up, so I didn't have to be frozen and cold in the morning? Very doubtful. I need to deal with my pains so it doesn't become a thorn in our relationship. I don't want to hurt you, it breaks my heart to see you crying this morning. I don't know which one is worst, the pain of losing you forever or the pain of the possibility of sexless marriage & no kids in the horizon? I really don't know the answer and I'm so sorry for putting you through this. The last thing I want to do is to hurt you. You deserve to be happy, more than you let yourself on. Sometimes, I think because the way you were brought up, you seem to be afraid to get what you want and you shoot yourself down before you even try. Love, your wife.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 (edited) Sorry cuppa, I've followed your posts and been harsh in other posts. I just can't help shaking my head in disbelief about his obstinance and lack of understanding and caring.... And you defend and make excuses for him??? You two are obviously very successful and your husband seems to only care about moving up that corporate ladder with a pretty, smart spouse at his side along wioth amassing the toys that come with success (home, car, travel, dining out). His letter does not for a second address the problem or talk of a solution. Six weeks and not a single step towards a resolution or some IC. Also what I notice about men of late... He wants to make you the scapegoat as the one who will have to make a decision. The sex issue is just so abnormal (even when you were having sex) I don't know where to start. Cuppa, you are obviously a woman full of love and wanting someone to love and share your life with. You have hung on every little gesture of love he shows, while he ignores the most expressive, important one.... Just amazing that you read his letter and feel for him..... He has shown nothing, but his obsession over his career and looking the part.... One thing I just noticed, your letter is signed LOVE, and unless I missed it that word LOVE does not appear in his letter..... Why don't you leave him and as a favour post a singles ad posting all his wonderful attributes, such as he being handsome and successful. But also point out that he is needy, can't express emotions, doesn't want a family and will not have sex with you (nor show any affection or physical closeness).... I'm sure he will have plenty of women flocking..... Edited March 7, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic
Ecosse Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 I dont disagree that he is being a poor husband... I do disagree that throwing in the towel is the best option... There is something abnormal with him. Men dont usually initiate a sexless marriage. In my "real life" I work in the medical field (maintaining annominity I wont say what I do) in direct patient care... This behavior is abnormal and could be because of many many reasons... IMHO this reads (so far) like clinical depression...Going to the extreme how do you not know that there might have been a traumatic event recently that he doesnt know how to talk about (men get raped too)??? I guess what Im hammering at here is he needs some help... professional help especially... The man you fell in love with, the man you married needs help and he doesnt have the tools to help himself...
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 I dont disagree that he is being a poor husband... I do disagree that throwing in the towel is the best option... There is something abnormal with him. Men dont usually initiate a sexless marriage. In my "real life" I work in the medical field (maintaining annominity I wont say what I do) in direct patient care... This behavior is abnormal and could be because of many many reasons... IMHO this reads (so far) like clinical depression...Going to the extreme how do you not know that there might have been a traumatic event recently that he doesnt know how to talk about (men get raped too)??? I guess what Im hammering at here is he needs some help... professional help especially... The man you fell in love with, the man you married needs help and he doesnt have the tools to help himself... http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t217781/ There are so many issues, most having to do with his upbringing and his parents..... There is years of therapy ahead to work through his issues and he woin't take a single step, acknowledge it and keeps going on about his job.... Sheesh......
Ecosse Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 "There are so many issues, most having to do with his upbringing and his parents..... There is years of therapy ahead to work through his issues and he woin't take a single step, acknowledge it and keeps going on about his job.... Sheesh......" Someone avoiding something unpleasant? Wow, earth shattering! Im not debating that he is in the wrong... Im not debating that the help he needs is going to take a looong time and will require some form of maintenance... I am saying that cuppa should not give up on him... That he needs help Where i do have concern, is that youre suggesting that it is hopeless... I feel pitty for your SO (ex SOs) that you would give up so quickly and adamantly "better or for worse, in sickness and in health" Im reading sickness... You know that Cancer can take years of treatment to cure... MS has no cure... These are Illnesses too, not unlike depression (or other Psych Dx)... I dont that you would divorce due to a physical illness, so why a mental one (especially such a common and treatable one)?
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 "There are so many issues, most having to do with his upbringing and his parents..... There is years of therapy ahead to work through his issues and he woin't take a single step, acknowledge it and keeps going on about his job.... Sheesh......" Someone avoiding something unpleasant? Wow, earth shattering! Im not debating that he is in the wrong... Im not debating that the help he needs is going to take a looong time and will require some form of maintenance... I am saying that cuppa should not give up on him... That he needs help Where i do have concern, is that youre suggesting that it is hopeless... I feel pitty for your SO (ex SOs) that you would give up so quickly and adamantly "better or for worse, in sickness and in health" Im reading sickness... You know that Cancer can take years of treatment to cure... MS has no cure... These are Illnesses too, not unlike depression (or other Psych Dx)... I dont that you would divorce due to a physical illness, so why a mental one (especially such a common and treatable one)? From the first posts? I applaud that you are telling her not to give up (and maybe she shouldn't), but I've read all the posts, Cuppa's strong support and her husband's almost emotionaless replies. I am truly hurting thinking of Cuppa's dilemna and decisions ahead. Frankly though I think she deserves better.
WalkInThePark Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 I am saying that cuppa should not give up on him... That he needs help Where i do have concern, is that youre suggesting that it is hopeless... I feel pitty for your SO (ex SOs) that you would give up so quickly and adamantly "better or for worse, in sickness and in health" It takes two to tango. In a marriage one is not the therapist of the other. In a marriage you have to be PRESENT. Cuppa's husband is not. Cuppa, please do not listen to Ecosse who encourages you to be some kind of mother Theresa or saint. You sound like a good, warm woman. You deserve happiness like the kind you described from your own parents.
WalkInThePark Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 I dont disagree that he is being a poor husband... I do disagree that throwing in the towel is the best option... There is something abnormal with him. Men dont usually initiate a sexless marriage. In my "real life" I work in the medical field (maintaining annominity I wont say what I do) in direct patient care... This behavior is abnormal and could be because of many many reasons... IMHO this reads (so far) like clinical depression...Going to the extreme how do you not know that there might have been a traumatic event recently that he doesnt know how to talk about (men get raped too)??? I guess what Im hammering at here is he needs some help... professional help especially... The man you fell in love with, the man you married needs help and he doesnt have the tools to help himself... Ecosse, I hope that in real life you listen better whenever you are involved in direct patient care... The agreement between Cuppa and her husband was that he would look for help and start councelling. Well, he - the man who is able to establish a nice professional career - is apparently not able to take the phone and make an appointment with a councellor. I think it stops there. She can't force him to go, can she. Yes he needs help but he refuses to get help.
WalkInThePark Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 So last night, what triggered the whole event was that I dressed up for a dinner. I know I looked very nice and all my best friends commented on how cute I looked that night. So my husband came and joined us for the dessert. We had a great time. When we were home, I came to him, kissed him, hugged him, I even had nice lingerie on but as usual, it stopped at that. I guess things came at me in waves...disappointment, rejection, and all these things came one after another. That's when I finally broke down and told him those words (that I know will hurt him too). He's not very expressive person, he's very kind and gentle but not good at expressing himself (hence letters are our best communication). I did hug him and kiss him in the morning (that's when I found out that his eyes were wet, so he's been crying all night). I sent him this letter a few hours ago. Cuppa, all these nice lovey dovey letters won't get you anywhere. You break down because you try to swallow your - justified - anger towards him. You'd better yell at him: "F!ck me, your f!cking idiot!" He does the same thing. This guy - as all depressed people - is angry and full of resentment. But instead of being angry he shows it in an indirect way. You are afraid to leave him because you are afraid he might straight away marry someone else and give her kids. And you know what? That could very well be what would happen. But it would not have to do anything with you just with this oppressed anger which does not show as anger but has the same effect: hurt people because one refuses to feel hurt himself. You are still young. Give yourself a chance for happiness. Leave him. Start by building up a support network and by going public about the problems you have.
TinyLee222 Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 I dont disagree that he is being a poor husband... I do disagree that throwing in the towel is the best option... There is something abnormal with him. Men dont usually initiate a sexless marriage. In my "real life" I work in the medical field (maintaining annominity I wont say what I do) in direct patient care... This behavior is abnormal and could be because of many many reasons... IMHO this reads (so far) like clinical depression...Going to the extreme how do you not know that there might have been a traumatic event recently that he doesnt know how to talk about (men get raped too)??? I guess what Im hammering at here is he needs some help... professional help especially... The man you fell in love with, the man you married needs help and he doesnt have the tools to help himself... See the thing is he doesn't want help. If you read back he has such a dysfunctional family. Why should Cuppa be his "nurse" and "caretaker"? Why should she have the life sucked out of her to get him well? Let his mother take care of him! Cuppa, you are young this should be the best time of your life and marriage. Of course passion and lust wain over time in a marriage but if there isn't any to begin with this early on what is going to happen in 20 years? Can you see yourself living like this? Let me tell you that you will be pulling your hair out in your 40's with a man like this. Get yourself strong with IC. You are worth it. Lee
giotto Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 [/b] See the thing is he doesn't want help. If you read back he has such a dysfunctional family. Why should Cuppa be his "nurse" and "caretaker"? Why should she have the life sucked out of her to get him well? Let his mother take care of him! Cuppa, you are young this should be the best time of your life and marriage. Of course passion and lust wain over time in a marriage but if there isn't any to begin with this early on what is going to happen in 20 years? Can you see yourself living like this? Let me tell you that you will be pulling your hair out in your 40's with a man like this. Get yourself strong with IC. You are worth it. Lee I have to agree with this... he is just comfy in his status quo and doesn't want to change. I'm afraid you'll have to show him that you mean business. You have to show him that your words count by acting on them. My wife does the same to me... she shuts down and when she sees that I'm really suffering she says a few things to keep me sweet... like, I really love you. I promise I'll fix myself. Still no sex though. I'm not saying that he doesn't want to fix himself, but he is obviously scared of it and prefers to stick to what he knows. But this is not enough. He has to show you his real love with actions. But you know what? I'm becoming more and more skeptical, day after day. You can pull the string a lot, but one day it will snap...
BettyBoop Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 "But it is infinitely more difficult when I am the one to face the grim reality of losing the woman I love so dearly." To truly love someone is to want to make them happy. Your husband promised you something and still 6 weeks later he has not followed up on your promise... to me, his words conflict with his actions. I have not followed your story cuppa, so I cannot say anything about your husband, really. However, to me that letter means nothing. I once received a boquet of flowers with a card saying "You're my everything." from my boyfriend back when I was 18. I should have been happy. But he hadn't called me in 1 1/2 months...so his words meant nothing to me. I knew what he wrote wasn't how he felt. Perhaps in his mind the thought it was - or that it was what I needed to hear...but it wasn't the truth. I'll tell you what I told giotto - actions speak louder than words. I'm sorry you're going through this.
Ecosse Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 I pity all your SOs that you would just quit so quickly snd without seeing things through... You should all be ashamed for your part in destroying another marriage Cuppa: Take a gut check and follow that... dont listen to anybody but yourself
giotto Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 I pity all your SOs that you would just quit so quickly snd without seeing things through... especially after 15 years of trying in my case...
WalkInThePark Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 I pity all your SOs that you would just quit so quickly snd without seeing things through... You should all be ashamed for your part in destroying another marriage Cuppa: Take a gut check and follow that... dont listen to anybody but yourself I have checked your other posts on this site and it seems to me that your are very young and quite immature (not that young and immature automatically go together). Before you say something read what cuppa has already posted on her situation. This is not a dry spell of a couple of months. This is an ongoing problem for a longer time. Giotto and Cuppa are not people who want to leave their spouse because the spouse has a life-threatening disease or a serious accident. You see, if a marriage is very fulfilling and your spouse all of a sudden has a major health problem, most people will stand by their spouse in these rough times. However Giotto's wife and Cuppa's husband do not have a major physical issue which prevents them from having sex. They might have some mental issues but both refuse to do something about it. In a good marriage, you should stick with each other through the bad times. But that is only possible if there have also been good times. And a good sexual life is part of that.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 I pity all your SOs that you would just quit so quickly snd without seeing things through... You should all be ashamed for your part in destroying another marriage Cuppa: Take a gut check and follow that... dont listen to anybody but yourself I ignored it the first time when you directed it at me (my post).... but now you repeat it.... What gives you the right to make such a silly statement? Have you even read Cuppa's whole story????
Angel1111 Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 Either make peace with this loveless and childless marriage, or leave it. Everything else is just a complete and utter waste of your time.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 Either make peace with this loveless and childless marriage, or leave it. Everything else is just a complete and utter waste of your time. H does love her in his perverse way..... SEXLESS.....
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