sally4sara Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 You've either misunderstood me or are taking me out of context to prove your own point. I was merely speculating (that's what i meant when I said "this is just speculation") on the motives behind such dialogue. I guess you don't have anything to add to my points, much like your inability to find this butt load of man bashing threads you talk about...... I read your words, I'm sorry their context is hard for you to follow. You said you have no venue for your feelings - not me. I gave you examples of venues. It is not my fault you fear using them - even the ones you don't have to approach the scary scary women to use.
bayouboi Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 How hard can it be to see the implication in this thread? Woggle implies that women, when disagreed with, will become nagging harridans. Yeah. Why should anyone have a problem with that? I think you might be mistaken here. It's possible that you've confused this thread with another of his threads. It's also possible that I've missed the post he made in this thread that makes those implications. I went back & looked at the first page & nowhere do I see anything close to him "impl(ying) that women, when disagreed with, will become nagging harridans". In fact, that leap you made doesn't even make sense with the spirit of his post considering he's suggesting that making your disagreements with a woman known to them will make your dealings with them smoother.
bayouboi Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 I read your words, I'm sorry their context is hard for you to follow. You said you have no venue for your feelings - not me. I gave you examples of venues. It is not my fault you fear using them - even the ones you don't have to approach the scary scary women to use. Again, I'm not sure why you're projecting my speculations onto me. Taramere posed a question as to why men used these avenues & I posed my guess. You keep saying things like "It is not my fault YOU fear using them - even the ones you don't have to approach the scary scary women to use". Again I ask what do my speculations have to do with me? Stop being ridiculous
Sharla Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 You know what's funny? I work in a corporate branch and there are 5 women and 30 men. We all get along with each other, with the exception of maybe one female and one male. There, I said something nice, even when I am surrounded by macho men on a daily basis. They wear thier business suits out on the road but when they come back to the office, they play football and throw frisbees at one another. They'll hide in their cubicles for unsuspecting passer-by-ers, and the other day, one of the managers whacked one of the associate's in the head with a rubber ball right in his eye. The guy who got hit stormed out of the office and he was noticebly very upset.
sally4sara Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 I agree with this. As a result, I will continue to seek support and share with all manner of friends, both male and female, regardless of what others might brand as 'inappropriate'. As I outlined above, a woman came to me in confidence, sharing personal things regarding her relationship. I know her husband. She received my support and understanding, both personally and regarding her marriage. I think that's healthy. That's what friends do. I hope more men become open to such support and understanding, something most women take for granted amongst their friends. I'll do my part The difference between woggle and a man like yourself is you are going through some tough stuff, can still use objective thought, and apply it to a situation rather than simply the gender of the people in the situation. I think of your wife and wonder if she was hit in the head during a horse riding mishap. You will be more than fine without someone like her. I think of woggle and everything he contributes on here and wonder if he drove his first wife to her insanity with all his unresolved mother baggage. He says he has a good woman as a wife and can still only look to his past to define all women because they are "what he sees all around him". What? Is his wife invisible?!? Imaginary? I can't tell anymore. He will be never fine. Not even with someone like her proving him wrong everyday.
carhill Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 Perhaps, with enough encouragement (and badgering ), the OP will achieve the healthy clarity he seems to seek. After all, if taking away his rants her on LS, his purported life has become, by his own estimation, a healthier, more positive path. IMO, a good woman's love can obviate a lot of negative perceptions of her gender. It's up to him whether he wants to accept that love and let it define him. I'm optimistic and hope it works out for him.
Sharla Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 The difference between woggle and a man like yourself is you are going through some tough stuff, can still use objective thought, and apply it to a situation rather than simply the gender of the people in the situation. I think of your wife and wonder if she was hit in the head during a horse riding mishap. You will be more than fine without someone like her. I think of woggle and everything he contributes on here and wonder if he drove his first wife to her insanity with all his unresolved mother baggage. He says he has a good woman as a wife and can still only look to his past to define all women because they are "what he sees all around him". What? Is his wife invisible?!? Imaginary? I can't tell anymore. He will be never fine. Not even with someone like her proving him wrong everyday. That's because Carhill has put forth must effort and commitment via marriage counceling, which I absolutley applaud him for. The OP doesn't believe in that sort of thing, at least not for himself....
donnamaybe Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 I think you might be mistaken here. It's possible that you've confused this thread with another of his threads. It's also possible that I've missed the post he made in this thread that makes those implications. I went back & looked at the first page & nowhere do I see anything close to him "impl(ying) that women, when disagreed with, will become nagging harridans". In fact, that leap you made doesn't even make sense with the spirit of his post considering he's suggesting that making your disagreements with a woman known to them will make your dealings with them smoother. It's THIS thread taken into context with all his OTHER threads about how awful women are that leads one to the obvious conclusion about what THIS thread is all about. Simple, really. If this thread is all about "getting along with people" and "drawing lines" then why can't we talk about saying no to "people" and not JUST "women?" Of course there has to be a "pissed off woman" in the title of the thread.
carhill Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 An edit: After all, if taking away his rants here on LS, his purported life has become, by his own estimation, a healthier, more positive Regarding MC, or counseling in general, that's a very personal thing and each of us has our opinion, both of the process and of the goal. I know many men who are completely averse to counseling and prefer to solve relationship issues 'on their own'. My interpretation is that they fear a third party shining a mirror on them, but I often hear their interpretations which differ markedly, generally about competency of the counselor or more general assertions about 'it's our business. We'll fix it'. In such cases, counseling will never work because they don't want it to work. Whether such is legitimate criticism or fear matters not. It is what it is. I don't know what Wog's aversion to the process is. Maybe he'll change his mind
Author Woggle Posted March 5, 2010 Author Posted March 5, 2010 I did not drive my first wife to insanity because I was a completely different man when I was married to her. I was a scared doormat and our divorce gave me a spine.
sally4sara Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 I did not drive my first wife to insanity because I was a completely different man when I was married to her. I was a scared doormat and our divorce gave me a spine. I think I will give this as much credibility as you give everyone else. Because you know, we're all either the browbeaten men needing your cautionary tales or the brow beating man eating women you tell about in your tales no matter what we say. Suuuure right you didn't woggle. All you teach people is to build a wall.
Author Woggle Posted March 5, 2010 Author Posted March 5, 2010 I think I will give this as much credibility as you give everyone else. Because you know, we're all either the browbeaten men needing your cautionary tales or the brow beating man eating women you tell about in your tales no matter what we say. Suuuure right you didn't woggle. All you teach people is to build a wall. We have been divorced since 2004 and yet she is still a junkie. Shouldn't she take some responsibility for her life?
Taramere Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 (edited) I did not drive my first wife to insanity because I was a completely different man when I was married to her. I was a scared doormat and our divorce gave me a spine. Well, sometimes it takes a relationship failure for people to have revelations and figure out changes they need to make to themselves. For some people it might be that they're so controlling that they drive partners away. For others it may be that they're too passive, and that they permit others to walk all over them. Sometimes, though, it's just that it was a bad relationship with the wrong person. That thinking "it's my fault. There are things about me that must be changed drastically so that this never happens again" is taking on too much blame for a situation that you couldn't really do much about. I think that's partly what makes people so distraught and confused after relationship failures. Was it their fault or not? Do they need to change or not? You really just have to go with your own instincts there. If you think that you were overly passive and inclined to let others control you, then I guess you had to change. The problem as I see it is that your mother and your first wife are still very much in control of you...without even trying to be. Your entire mindset seems to be geared towards overcompensating for the person you were around them. The way you conduct yourself in your marriage is dictated not by your feelings about your present wife, but by your feelings about your former wife. That's an immense amount of control to allow someone from the past to exert over you. Perhaps rather than expending a lot of energy in trying to convince people on a message board that you hold the key to manliness and happiness, you could do with identifying other men who seem to be genuinely happy and secure in their relationships. Taking some advice from them might be more beneficial to you in the long run than it will be to keep trying to convince them and yourself that they're doormats who are doomed to cuckoldry and all other kinds of bad things as a form of warped karma for trusting/loving their partners. Edited March 5, 2010 by Taramere
shadowplay Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 The problem as I see it is that your mother and your first wife are still very much in control of you...without even trying to be. Your entire mindset seems to be geared towards overcompensating for the person you were around them. The way you conduct yourself in your marriage is dictated not by your feelings about your present wife, but by your feelings about your former wife. That's an immense amount of control to allow someone from the past to exert over you. Perhaps rather than expending a lot of energy in trying to convince people on a message board that you hold the key to manliness and happiness, you could do with identifying other men who seem to be genuinely happy and secure in their relationships. Taking some advice from them might be more beneficial to you in the long run than it will be to keep trying to convince them and yourself that they're doormats who are doomed to cuckoldry and all other kinds of bad things as a form of warped karma for trusting/loving their partners. Cosigned. I hope Woggle heeds this advice. He's not a bad guy, just a misguided one.
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