mybrowneyedgirl Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 I have a question for BS here. i realize that every marriage has at least a chance at being saved after an A if both parties willingly commit and work their harderst. my question is to all BS what would the deal breaker be? What would be too much for you to reconcile or even attempt it? What factors come in to play? some examples: the length of the affair the feelings involved places they were together breaking NC how they came to be so im wondering. what would be the one thing (or more than one) that would just be more than you were willing to try to work through. i think about the people on here who had very long affairs like 10 years. i think thats hard to over come. or maybe it would simply be something like having sex with the AP in the marital bed.
seibert253 Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Breaking NC was/is a dealbreaker for me. I made that crystal clear after my W decided to fix our marriage. I've also made it clear that if she ever has any inappropriate relationship with another person, male or female, we are done and I will D her immediately. There will be no warnings. No if's, and's, but's, or's about it. She knows this and understands. 2 1/2 years out and no "slippages". Slippages are not mistakes, they are choices.
Church Bells Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 i realize that every marriage has at least a chance at being saved after an A if both parties willingly commit and work their harderst. I suppose I don't agree with the above statement. IMHO, regardless of how much someone wants to try to save their M, in the end, there are some people that just CAN'T get over their spouses infidelity. It is ONE of the reasons that I have become such a critic of the Marriage Builders approach. They seem to preach what you suggest in the above quote, and will even go so far as to suggest a 100% success rate, but CLEARLY some people just can't ever get past the initial betrayal, regardless of how much they may want their M/Family to remain intact. I see this especially in BH ... or maybe its just because I can relate better to BH's ... that no matter how much they claim they want to save their M, they love their WW, they don't want to become an every other weekend Dad, etc. ... in the end, some of them just can't get past the act of infiedelity themselves. Their M has now become "tainted", and no amount of repentent, lovingly applied whitewash can ever remove that stain from the BH's soul.
Author mybrowneyedgirl Posted March 3, 2010 Author Posted March 3, 2010 i agree completely church bells. i think its very very hard to overcome this. i almost say impossible. there are a few on here who have done it. a very very small few, so i cannot say "never." i am a ws not a bs, but i can imagine that breaking NC would be a deal breaker for me too. i also think going away on a vacation and acting married with the AP would be a hard one too. or of course, having a child with them.
2sure Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 The breaking point. I hit it awhile ago, but am only just now recognizing what it is. Not sure if I can explain it yet. I can wrap my head around what he has done. I can forgive him because I'm like that and because I know he is sincerely remorseful. I love him and know that he loves me. Ultimately, his cheating (basically repeated ONS) has hurt him just as much as me. Maybe more. The issue of trusting him ever again. Its more like...I dont think he would do this to me again, but I dont think about it much because what I have done is ...changed?...I will never let that rug be pulled from beneath me again. Would he cheat...I dont think so . Would I be surprised if he did? No. Thats not trust. Its more like indifference. And I could deal with that, I really could. Except this one...this one I loved.
Spark1111 Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 My WS affair was 1.5 years. It is two years since DDAy, and this is hardest most painful thing I have had to recover from in my life, and my life has not been a picnic. Too much? Ever being unfaithful again. Breaking NC. If NC occurs, (and it did by her design) being informed immediately. (he did) Treating me with disrespect in any way shape or form. Stopping IC and MC. No complacency regarding "us." I will never go back to the status quo that existed pre-affair. I deserve a loving, passionate, and intimate relationship. Hopefully, with him because I do love him. But without him is always an option too.
Spark1111 Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 The breaking point. I hit it awhile ago, but am only just now recognizing what it is. Not sure if I can explain it yet. I can wrap my head around what he has done. I can forgive him because I'm like that and because I know he is sincerely remorseful. I love him and know that he loves me. Ultimately, his cheating (basically repeated ONS) has hurt him just as much as me. Maybe more. The issue of trusting him ever again. Its more like...I dont think he would do this to me again, but I dont think about it much because what I have done is ...changed?...I will never let that rug be pulled from beneath me again. Would he cheat...I dont think so . Would I be surprised if he did? No. Thats not trust. Its more like indifference. And I could deal with that, I really could. Except this one...this one I loved. I can relate. Forgiveness to me is in three phases: 1) the affair --check done. It had almost nothing to do with me and what is just very broken inside him; something he never dealt with until now. 2) the lies and deception. Much, much harder. Develop feelings for someone else? It happens. Man up, tell me, we'll separate and see if we have a relationship worth saving, probably through MC. Allow me the freedom of exploring other relationships. As hurtful as that would have been, I still would have had.. 3) Respect for the man I thought you were when I loved you unconditionally. Respect is the hardest thing to regain, and if a woman does not respect the man, or cannot get that respect back....We do grow indifferent and it is then OVER for us.
OWoman Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 I can relate. Forgiveness to me is in three phases: 1) the affair --check done. It had almost nothing to do with me and what is just very broken inside him; something he never dealt with until now. 2) the lies and deception. Much, much harder. Develop feelings for someone else? It happens. Man up, tell me, we'll separate and see if we have a relationship worth saving, probably through MC. Allow me the freedom of exploring other relationships. As hurtful as that would have been, I still would have had.. 3) Respect for the man I thought you were when I loved you unconditionally. Respect is the hardest thing to regain, and if a woman does not respect the man, or cannot get that respect back....We do grow indifferent and it is then OVER for us. This makes sense to me.
seibert253 Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 I suppose I don't agree with the above statement. IMHO, regardless of how much someone wants to try to save their M, in the end, there are some people that just CAN'T get over their spouses infidelity. It is ONE of the reasons that I have become such a critic of the Marriage Builders approach. They seem to preach what you suggest in the above quote, and will even go so far as to suggest a 100% success rate, but CLEARLY some people just can't ever get past the initial betrayal, regardless of how much they may want their M/Family to remain intact. I see this especially in BH ... or maybe its just because I can relate better to BH's ... that no matter how much they claim they want to save their M, they love their WW, they don't want to become an every other weekend Dad, etc. ... in the end, some of them just can't get past the act of infiedelity themselves. Their M has now become "tainted", and no amount of repentent, lovingly applied whitewash can ever remove that stain from the BH's soul. Agree with the last sentence. My M will forever be "tainted". That black spot will always be there. It's much better in most aspects, but 100% trust is gone, never to return.
fooled once Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 I have a question for BS here. i realize that every marriage has at least a chance at being saved after an A if both parties willingly commit and work their harderst. my question is to all BS what would the deal breaker be? What would be too much for you to reconcile or even attempt it? What factors come in to play? some examples: the length of the affair the feelings involved places they were together breaking NC how they came to be so im wondering. what would be the one thing (or more than one) that would just be more than you were willing to try to work through. i think about the people on here who had very long affairs like 10 years. i think thats hard to over come. or maybe it would simply be something like having sex with the AP in the marital bed. While I am not a BS, my H and I have had this convo. We both 'say' we could handle finding out the other had a 1 night stand, but if I ever found out he was 'in love' with someone else -- deal breaker. Same for him with me. Don't care how they met, don't care where they went. The feelings involved would be the deal breaker for us. I mean, how do you ever respect, trust, cherish your spouse when they told you they were in love with someone else? I don't know how you recover from that.
realworldexplorer Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 My wifes A had very little to do with me and it was very surprising to discover the depth of the dysfunction of her mind. Her thinking was bizarre and of course seemed to be very out of character. I have concluded (through exhaustive analysis of her past, family of origin, and other sundry developmental pictures) that most of her (if not all of her) behaviour was based purely on fear and suffering from complicating situations in her then present and from her past. She was not conscious of these things but they did come to light after 100's of hours of discussion. It is truly amazing how complicated her psyche is, or how complicated she decides to make it. I have remained with her because I do see progress with her and would not like to see her suffer even greater loss, as a BS I curiously have a lot of sympathy for her even though all of my and her suffering is a direct result of her choices. Sympathy, however, will have to change to respect somewhere down the line. I will not tolerate the following: Any deception Any gaslighting Any lies of omission Anykind of infidelity Any unwarranted disrespect or taking for granted. She understands the new rules and has been asked what she wants. She has a lot of the old freedom from before, as I am not her father or a warden. No third chances, no questions, no drama, just gone if it doesn't happen to work out for her.
realworldexplorer Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 While I am not a BS, my H and I have had this convo. We both 'say' we could handle finding out the other had a 1 night stand, but if I ever found out he was 'in love' with someone else -- deal breaker. Same for him with me. Don't care how they met, don't care where they went. The feelings involved would be the deal breaker for us. I mean, how do you ever respect, trust, cherish your spouse when they told you they were in love with someone else? I don't know how you recover from that. That is precisely the conversation I had with my fWW years before she fell in love wih an OM while we were separated due to my work. I never would have believed that recovery would be possible either. We are trying and time will tell. Never say never.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 Spark summed it up perfectly. I completely agree.
fooled once Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 That is precisely the conversation I had with my fWW years before she fell in love wih an OM while we were separated due to my work. I never would have believed that recovery would be possible either. We are trying and time will tell. Never say never. But see, we have had this discussion many times here - *I* can say never because that is not who I am. I would NEVER cheat on my DH. If I ever wanted another relationship, I would END our marriage first, not cheat. How do I know this? How can I say never? Because *I* can and because *I* know me. I can't say it for anyone else but me because *I* do control me.
wheelwright Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 I have a question for BS here. i realize that every marriage has at least a chance at being saved after an A if both parties willingly commit and work their harderst. my question is to all BS what would the deal breaker be? What would be too much for you to reconcile or even attempt it? What factors come in to play? some examples: the length of the affair the feelings involved places they were together breaking NC how they came to be so im wondering. what would be the one thing (or more than one) that would just be more than you were willing to try to work through. i think about the people on here who had very long affairs like 10 years. i think thats hard to over come. or maybe it would simply be something like having sex with the AP in the marital bed. Everyone has a different breaking point, and different values on which to base it. I couldn't stand a WS who kissed me and told me he loved me without guilt or compassion if they were saying the same to another. I wouldn't forgive if there were no conflict for them. And I would walk out if they loved their AP better than me - not for my sake, but for theirs. The points you raised above- only one seemed to resonate -how they came to be. I think BSs understandably become very selfish - they no longer search for the solution which works best for all concerned, but for the solution which helps lessen their hurt. So perhaps a BS ends it when they know there will be less hurt for them in this outcome.
FryFish Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 I think BSs understandably become very selfish I wouldn't say they become selfish, just that they go back to looking out for number one first. Its a stretch to say that protecting yourself is selfish.
Samantha0905 Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 Agree with the last sentence. My M will forever be "tainted". That black spot will always be there. It's much better in most aspects, but 100% trust is gone, never to return. Then why -- in all seriousness -- does everyone say to tell your spouse of your infidelity? While I am not a BS, my H and I have had this convo. We both 'say' we could handle finding out the other had a 1 night stand, but if I ever found out he was 'in love' with someone else -- deal breaker. Same for him with me. Don't care how they met, don't care where they went. The feelings involved would be the deal breaker for us. I mean, how do you ever respect, trust, cherish your spouse when they told you they were in love with someone else? I don't know how you recover from that. Right. Many people would feel that way. So why tell? Everyone has a different breaking point, and different values on which to base it. I couldn't stand a WS who kissed me and told me he loved me without guilt or compassion if they were saying the same to another. I wouldn't forgive if there were no conflict for them. I get that. I couldn't do that. And I would walk out if they loved their AP better than me - not for my sake, but for theirs. Better how? It was mix and match for me. I don't mean that flippant. I think BSs understandably become very selfish - they no longer search for the solution which works best for all concerned, but for the solution which helps lessen their hurt. So perhaps a BS ends it when they know there will be less hurt for them in this outcome. Yes. They do become more selfish -- just like their partner was selfish. It's a sad situation.
bentnotbroken Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 Everyone has a different breaking point, and different values on which to base it. I couldn't stand a WS who kissed me and told me he loved me without guilt or compassion if they were saying the same to another. I wouldn't forgive if there were no conflict for them. And I would walk out if they loved their AP better than me - not for my sake, but for theirs. The points you raised above- only one seemed to resonate -how they came to be. I think BSs understandably become very selfish - they no longer search for the solution which works best for all concerned, but for the solution which helps lessen their hurt. So perhaps a BS ends it when they know there will be less hurt for them in this outcome. The first two bolded statements make sense if the BS is a mind reader. Since many WS continue to lie and gaslight, it would be difficult to know what is actually going through that tiny little brain. Question to the last bolded statement....why should a BS search for the solution that works best for everybody? Did the AP or WS do that for the BS? Didn't they set the precedence for selfish actions. Shouldn't the BS look out for themselves and by doing what will not hurt them as much? It seems they are the only one looking out for their best interest in most situations.
moaningmyrtle Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 I have a question for BS here. i realize that every marriage has at least a chance at being saved after an A if both parties willingly commit and work their harderst. my question is to all BS what would the deal breaker be? What would be too much for you to reconcile or even attempt it? What factors come in to play? some examples: the length of the affair the feelings involved places they were together breaking NC how they came to be so im wondering. what would be the one thing (or more than one) that would just be more than you were willing to try to work through. i think about the people on here who had very long affairs like 10 years. i think thats hard to over come. or maybe it would simply be something like having sex with the AP in the marital bed. There's virtually nothing in the list above that is the deal-breaker for me. I think OW sometimes make the mistake of thinking: "if the BW only knew *....insert whatever in the blank....* happened during/immediately after the A, then she wouldn't want to stay with her H". Maybe this gives an OW a sense that she still holds some cards - I dunno. But I see it time and time again said by OW after d-day. I suspect that what most BW, who are trying to reconcile, focus on is the future together, so future behaviour especially becoming trustworthy is what we might want. All of the things you mentioned above happened (in a very bad way) in my H's A. While they were all horrible for me to find out about it was ultimately the fact that he had an A, lied to me and totally betrayed me that was the issue. I have decided (hard as it is) there will be no further chances for him in future. It will be his choice what he does but he knows the result if he decides to stray again.
Mr. Lucky Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 Then why -- in all seriousness -- does everyone say to tell your spouse of your infidelity? Right. Many people would feel that way. So why tell? You're confusing the crime with the sentence. The OP is discussing issues that affect a BS, by definition someone who's been "told". The deception you seem to be advocating didn't happen (at least successfully) in their case.. Mr. Lucky
FryFish Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 Then why -- in all seriousness -- does everyone say to tell your spouse of your infidelity? Because that is the only way for it to even have a chance at becoming a real marriage again instead of a lie.
MizFit Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 When I was a BS it was the second he answered the question of his affair with a 'yes'. A second chance never entered my mind and in all honesty...I regret the fact I made the marriage vulnerable to an affair, but I do not for a moment regret ending the marriage. It was done when I found out there was someone else-period. As an OW the BS has been through 2 DDays and I'm not convinced there is a number that she will not endure. As someone said...everyone's limits and thoughts are different.
JustJoe Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 Browneyed Girl, I really think that all of these issues can be overcome, but only if both parties are aware of them. It would almost be like re-making a marriage from scratch. The cheater would have to be really, really honest about the affair, and the person cheated on would have to be mature enough and still have enough love, to be willing to try again. The only true "deal-breaker", would be if the cheater continued to lie or evade about aspects of the affair. I think that the only other dealbreaker would be if the cheater was a woman and she became pregnant by her lover, or a married man made his GF pregnant.
wheelwright Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 The first two bolded statements make sense if the BS is a mind reader. Since many WS continue to lie and gaslight, it would be difficult to know what is actually going through that tiny little brain. Question to the last bolded statement....why should a BS search for the solution that works best for everybody? Did the AP or WS do that for the BS? Didn't they set the precedence for selfish actions. Shouldn't the BS look out for themselves and by doing what will not hurt them as much? It seems they are the only one looking out for their best interest in most situations. I did say understandably!
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