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Do you know you're flashing me when you're trying on shoes?


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Posted

OP if you honestly think these women are doing something premeditated, stop now, believe us they are not doing to to flirt with you. Showing some skin or cleavage and looking at you and giving you a sly smile is flirting, catching an accidental glimpse down her top because she is doing up her shoes is SO NOT.

Posted

I don't like anyone around when I'm trying on shoes, you never know if/when you have stinky feet.

 

I got pulled over tonight driving over the speed limit, and I could have gotten a pretty fat ticket and points but the officer was really nice and he didn't give me a ticket. There was no flirting on my part (but I did have a cute hat on) and he laughed because I had two cups of coffee in my cup holder :D.

Posted

Okay, now this has got me thinking. A few of my girl friends have shown signs of doing something similar to me. For example, one of my friends was sitting in front of me in a room. She stands straight up and bends down to rummage through her bag and I am left with a view from behind. It is hard not to look because it's right in front of me and I am the only one seeing it. I can't believe she couldn't just sit down and check her bag. Another one was when I was doing an exam and the girl next to me kept rubbing her legs. I'm trying to do my exam! I managed to focus though.

Posted

A majority of my tops can be seen down if the observer is positioned in a way the OP is... but I never realized it until this very moment.

 

So NO, as far as I'm concerned, it's NEVER been intentional.

Posted

3. A woman doesn't care if she's flashing and some unknown salesman is enjoying the scenery and thinking things. Do you blame him for enjoying it or thinking whatever he's thinking?

 

I fall into this camp, I dont think about it and I dont care. I would say that for the most part I wouldnt even notice. And if I do notice, as long as the guy isnt being piggy about it...I still dont care. They are just boobs, less than that - just cleavage.

 

What do you ladies want these guys to do? Avert their eyes and pray to a greater power for non-sinful thoughts?

 

I thought about this. In the case of the shoe salesman...what do I want him to do? Depends on the shoe. If its a Manolow or Gucci...and I think he is position to offer me a discount, I'll lean over some more. Hey, they are expensive!

Posted

You have nothing to lose by acting cool and saying nothing about it, and everything to lose by assuming she's doing it on purpose.

 

Just let your eyes feast on what they can in life, and stay respectful otherwise. :)

Posted

My point is not that the women the OP is talking about is trying to seduce him but that people generally dress to look attractive and enhance their attributes and detract from their negatives. So people dress the way they do because they feel it enhances their appearance. You may do this in a way to look more professional when working or to look attractive for the opposite sex when out casually. So I think how you dress is a consious decision.

 

I have never been with a women who did not look in the mirror one last time on their way out the door. :)

Posted
My point is not that the women the OP is talking about is trying to seduce him but that people generally dress to look attractive and enhance their attributes and detract from their negatives. So people dress the way they do because they feel it enhances their appearance. You may do this in a way to look more professional when working or to look attractive for the opposite sex when out casually. So I think how you dress is a consious decision.

 

I have never been with a women who did not look in the mirror one last time on their way out the door. :)

This is a good way to put it. It's totally a conscious decision and there's no shame in it. But when you dress or act a certain way, be prepared for accurate or inaccurate assumptions. This doesn't mean that men will jump you but most def., if you're worth looking at, they're going to enjoy the show! I say, let 'em.
Posted
This is a good way to put it. It's totally a conscious decision and there's no shame in it. But when you dress or act a certain way, be prepared for accurate or inaccurate assumptions. This doesn't mean that men will jump you but most def., if you're worth looking at, they're going to enjoy the show! I say, let 'em.

 

You're giving the message to your (potential) female child then that whatever male attention she gets shes asking for it.

 

From what I've seen we're talking 11/ 12 years old here - thats the age the male attention starts on young girls unless they're protected from it (by role models liKe TBF and like minded wised up females hopefully) who explain to them ( children still) that their bodies are thier own legally and morally whatever anyone else projects onto them

Posted
You're giving the message to your (potential) female child then that whatever male attention she gets shes asking for it.

 

From what I've seen we're talking 11/ 12 years old here - thats the age the male attention starts on young girls unless they're protected from it (by role models liKe TBF and like minded wised up females hopefully) who explain to them ( children still) that their bodies are thier own legally and morally whatever anyone else projects onto them

No. The message I'll be giving any of my potential future daughters is, no matter what, sooner or later, you're going to get male attention. It's your choice how you choose to handle it. If you dress in a provocative fashion, you're going to get stared at and if you don't, you might or might not be. Know that you're attractive and will generate male interest. Accept it for what it is, a form of cross-gender admiration. As long as these guys only look but don't touch, it's okay. Don't be the thought police, paranoid about your body or what others think about you.
Posted

Although it's been a sort of 'fun' argument here on LS I would just like to state my point here that I think that women should dress how they like, and that any sort of fear or reaction that men or boys may have because of females dressing a certain way is something inherently their problem not the females. i am really hoping this is just a sort of 'fun argument amongst people who have no bearing on real life' rather than whatever...

Posted

TBF You still have a problem with 'a provocative fashion' sorry....but anyone can accuse a child / male / female of being 'provocative'

 

A hole in a wall can be provocative....if you think that really there is some way to dress yourself, or even your child that will proclude someone finding that 'provocative' then you are deluded.

Posted

silverfish, I'll be teaching any potential future daughters, what's provocative and what's not. This is within my right and duty as a mother. There's no way I'm going to teach her that any form of dress, isn't going to impact on perception and have her running around in something that attracts the attention she doesn't want. I think it's negligent for a parent to not teach their children proper dress.

Posted
silverfish, I'll be teaching any potential future daughters, what's provocative and what's not. This is within my right and duty as a mother. There's no way I'm going to teach her that any form of dress, isn't going to impact on perception and have her running around in something that attracts the attention she doesn't want. I think it's negligent for a parent to not teach their children proper dress.[/QU

 

What you think is a proper form of dress for a child adolescent (lets say 12,13,14 yr old ) is these days, not sure that your opinion is worth anything sonce you dont have any experience of teenagers this age ?

 

How much control do you think a parent has over the way a child (male or female) dresses at the age of 11, 12, 13 ,14 and so on? Can we tell them what to wear?

 

ps the answer starts with n and ends with o

Posted

silverfish, teaching and controlling are two different things. If it got to the point where I, as a mother, had to ram dress code down the throat of any children, that just means I failed as a mother, while they were children. This, like anything else, is an ongoing process.

 

Teaching a child how to dress appropriately, isn't rocket science. Whether they choose to abide by what's appropriate or not, will be their own choice and also, if there's impact, will be their own age appropriate responsibility.

 

If say a daughter of mine, chose to wear a bikini to the mall, you can rest assured she wouldn't be let out of the house. If she decides to wear a low-cut top or miniskirt, while I wouldn't stop her from wearing them, she has to understand the type of attention that she could potentially attract. If it's not the type of attention she wants, she'll have to dress differently.

Posted
silverfish, teaching and controlling are two different things. If it got to the point where I, as a mother, had to ram dress code down the throat of any children, that just means I failed as a mother, while they were children. This, like anything else, is an ongoing process.

 

Teaching a child how to dress appropriately, isn't rocket science. Whether they choose to abide by what's appropriate or not, will be their own choice and also, if there's impact, will be their own age appropriate responsibility.

 

If say a daughter of mine, chose to wear a bikini to the mall, you can rest assured she wouldn't be let out of the house. If she decides to wear a low-cut top or miniskirt, while I wouldn't stop her from wearing them, she has to understand the type of attention that she could potentially attract. If it's not the type of attention she wants, she'll have to dress differently.

 

 

You're confusing your morals though -- the type of person that doesnt have your morals (ie the OP) the problem is you tried to justify the OP as being ok with sexualising all females, and now you're trying to say you can protect your potential daughters from that.....listen

 

YOU CANT>

 

if you have daughters one day they will have to deal with this too...at least acknowledge it and help her / him see it exists and stop denying its a problem.

 

Do you honestly think how someone dresses affects their chances of being sexually abused?

Posted

I love shoes!!!! so when I am shopping for shoes, trust me, I am oblivious to the shoe salesman. Choosing the right kind of shoes is serious business! :pSo I am on the side of those who just don't care if I am flashing the shoe attendant or not-thoughts running in my mind would be- hmm..different size, maybe? does this come in this or that color? what purse would go with this? Never this- "let me bend a little lower so the shoe salesman can see more of my cleavage"...:rolleyes:

 

I am confused about one thing though- I love high heels, stilettos-we're talking at least 4 inches....I am petite and wearing them just gives me the added "bounce"...:), however, I was told that men think those kinds of shoes are "f*ck me shoes"....gasp! what? what's the connection?

 

Granted, I dress to look and feel better about myself...but it goes without saying that it's important that other people ( men and women) agree with me....what good is it if I believe I look good and other people think I look hideous? If I was a hermit then maybe I am not going to care...but I am not...

Posted

silverfish, I'm going to raise my children with some common sense and solid defensive mechanisms, so they know what to do and what to expect in life. I'm going to teach them some serious personal responsibility. I'm not going to teach them that they have complete and utter freedom to wear what they want, that it's okay, that it won't draw attention they don't want. I'm going to teach them that this type of clothing draws this type of attention and this type of clothing, draws this type of attention.

 

I'm also not so naive or stupid, to believe that men don't sexualize women, who wear provocative clothing. And if women wear provocative clothing, be prepared to be sexualized.

 

This doesn't mean I support a touch attitude, without permission.

 

If men want to look, they're going to look and no amount of thought policing will change that so that's where the common sense comes into play.

 

As for sexual abuse, don't even go there in this thread. It's not being discussed unless you believe that looking at something that's being openly displayed, is sexual abuse. If so, it's reality check time...

Posted
silverfish, I'm going to raise my children with some common sense and solid defensive mechanisms, so they know what to do and what to expect in life. I'm going to teach them some serious personal responsibility. I'm not going to teach them that they have complete and utter freedom to wear what they want, that it's okay, that it won't draw attention they don't want. I'm going to teach them that this type of clothing draws this type of attention and this type of clothing, draws this type of attention.

 

I'm also not so naive or stupid, to believe that men don't sexualize women, who wear provocative clothing. And if women wear provocative clothing, be prepared to be sexualized.

 

This doesn't mean I support a touch attitude, without permission.

 

If men want to look, they're going to look and no amount of thought policing will change that so that's where the common sense comes into play.

 

As for sexual abuse, don't even go there in this thread. It's not being discussed unless you believe that looking at something that's being openly displayed, is sexual abuse. If so, it's reality check time...

 

Nah....you're wrong to teach your potential girl / female children to dress in a certain way. You shouldn;t have to restrict their freedom at all. The ONLY reason you would do that is if you were afraid that they would be sexually molested / abused for the way they dressed or behaved, in which case, I guess you would think about packing your bags and leaving the country.....I know I would.

 

If you're talking about 'convention' well, sorry but who walks around in a a bikini in a mall (whatever that is sorry cultural differnces here obviously), sorry, but this discussion seems ridiculous to someone in the UK

Posted
Nah....you're wrong to teach your potential girl / female children to dress in a certain way. You shouldn;t have to restrict their freedom at all. The ONLY reason you would do that is if you were afraid that they would be sexually molested / abused for the way they dressed or behaved, in which case, I guess you would think about packing your bags and leaving the country.....I know I would.

 

If you're talking about 'convention' well, sorry but who walks around in a a bikini in a mall (whatever that is sorry cultural differnces here obviously), sorry, but this discussion seems ridiculous to someone in the UK

 

actually here in the the US, too! :rolleyes:

Posted
Nah....you're wrong to teach your potential girl / female children to dress in a certain way. You shouldn;t have to restrict their freedom at all. The ONLY reason you would do that is if you were afraid that they would be sexually molested / abused for the way they dressed or behaved, in which case, I guess you would think about packing your bags and leaving the country.....I know I would.

 

If you're talking about 'convention' well, sorry but who walks around in a a bikini in a mall (whatever that is sorry cultural differnces here obviously), sorry, but this discussion seems ridiculous to someone in the UK

No. I'm teaching them common sense, a sense of style and social etiquette.

 

Well, if you believe that children and teenagers should be allowed to wear whatever they want, it's no stretch on a hot day for them to feel like wearing a bikini. If you teach them nothing about comportment, why would a little thing like no one doing it, stop them?

Posted
actually here in the the US, too! :rolleyes:

 

Good to hear. Y'know I live in a fairly straight laced little bubble of english society but sometimes its a little shocking some of the attitudes that get put across.

 

TBF sometimes it seems like you're more interested in coming across as the 'nice guy/gal' here with some of the male posters for no other reason than you wnt to be seen as the 'good gal'....or whatever female equivalent there is for a nice guy.

 

I understand why you're doing it in a way...I always like to play devils advocate myself. But---sorry the OP said he works in a shoe shop, and looks down females tops....and you are the ONLY one who has consistently defended him....male and female...the only one

 

 

I don't get it.

Posted
Good to hear. Y'know I live in a fairly straight laced little bubble of english society but sometimes its a little shocking some of the attitudes that get put across.

 

TBF sometimes it seems like you're more interested in coming across as the 'nice guy/gal' here with some of the male posters for no other reason than you wnt to be seen as the 'good gal'....or whatever female equivalent there is for a nice guy.

 

I understand why you're doing it in a way...I always like to play devils advocate myself. But---sorry the OP said he works in a shoe shop, and looks down females tops....and you are the ONLY one who has consistently defended him....male and female...the only one

 

 

I don't get it.

:laugh: You must not read many of my posts, if you believe I'm doing this to curry male favour. I'm known as a feminazi or worse yet, a careerist, by some of the male posters.

 

I'm not afraid to say whatever I believe, regardless of which side of the gender barrier it falls on.

 

If a woman bends over with a low-cut top (as defined in the OP), expect that she's going to get ogled. If she wears a miniskirt and bends over, expect that she's going to get ogled. It's just plain common sense, ladies, not rocket science.

Posted
No. I'm teaching them common sense, a sense of style and social etiquette.

 

Well, if you believe that children and teenagers should be allowed to wear whatever they want, it's no stretch on a hot day for them to feel like wearing a bikini. If you teach them nothing about comportment, why would a little thing like no one doing it, stop them?

 

You're not teaching them anything yet though are you...unless I'm mistaken and you actually have children and also 13 years of parenting experience?

 

By your posts it's obvious it isn't the case. Sorry TBF I respect your intelligence and integrity in a lot of posts but you don't seem to be able to reciprocate by attempting to learn from those that have more practical experience than you

Posted
You're not teaching them anything yet though are you...unless I'm mistaken and you actually have children and also 13 years of parenting experience?

 

By your posts it's obvious it isn't the case. Sorry TBF I respect your intelligence and integrity in a lot of posts but you don't seem to be able to reciprocate by attempting to learn from those that have more practical experience than you

This issue is pretty straight-forward to me, in that it doesn't take 13 years of parenting experience to figure out that boys look at girls. The more a girl shows, the more a boy looks and yes, he also, sometimes thinks about stuff.

 

I'm also surprised at how personal our interaction has gotten, as I normally respect your posting style.

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