Better relationship: Affair vrs. Reconciliation?

[Brokenlady]

This is no different from the feelings of the W after a d-day. Knowing that she was likely made out to be a shrew. Knowing that there were times during that marriage that she was a shrew. The A is a shot across the bow for a BW. She now knows the depths to which some will stoop to take her life from her.

 

Who are you referring to? The OW? I some BW think the OW wants what she has, but this makes no sense. In order for the affair to exist, the MM has to have painted what he has as miserable, and therefore not enviable. I have yet to ever see an OW set out to "take another woman's life from her".

 

I can't agree that the OW was "cast aside" for another woman. She was removed from a life she didn't belong in. A MM goes back for his *life* too.

 

Doesn't belong in? Each of us decides what belongs in our own lives. The MM decides who "belongs" in his life - it is afterall his life. If a BW decides a WS doesn't belong in her life because of his cheating, so be it, her choice on what belongs in her life from d-day forward. If the MM decides to stay in the M and decides the OW doesn't belong, then she doesn't belong from that moment forward, but she "belonged" just fine up until that point from the MM's perspective. None of this is to imply anything about the merits of any of the choices, only to clarify that IMO it is not for anyone else to decides who or what belongs in another individuals life. We can only make choices for ourselves, no matter what kind of train-wreck choices the people we love make around us..

 

{snip}

 

 

I disagree. They only become that way if someone makes them that way. This thread seems to be about asking why the OW/OM seem to always think that the reconciled marriage will never compare to whatever they felt the A was, not about who is hurting or not. Maybe if we stayed on the topic, which isn't pain but love and reconciliation, it won't turn into a contest of who hurts more.

 

Unfortunately, that topic involves pain. In fact, the original post references pain numerous times. It is painful to think someone you love is going on to love someone else, and that fact along with the empiracal evidence that few M's reconcile well, there is real cause for OW to have doubt about real reconcilation.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Brokenlady

[reboot]

The MM decides who "belongs" in his life - it is afterall his life.

 

Sorry, but when one is married, it isn't just his/her life anymore. It's their life. The spouse, the children, the in-laws, the friends, the neighbors, the pets.....

[Brokenlady]

Sorry, but when one is married, it isn't just his/her life anymore. It's their life. The spouse, the children, the in-laws, the friends, the neighbors, the pets.....

 

Obviously a MM needs to consider those around him - but again, I'm not talking about the merits of any decisions made, or the fact that a person has a responsibility to those around him. Obviously having an A is a bad decision. But each person makes choices for themselves, an no one else can make those decisions for another person, no matter if they are good, bad, or otherwise.

[OWoman]

I don't think that saying:

 

the MP "could never have with their wife/husband what we had,"

 

is necessarily the same as:

 

so many OW/OM believe that the relationship a reconciled MP chooses after DDay, can in NO WAY be better than the relationship they had with the AP.

 

The first states that the two Rs must be qualitatively different - and I think there'd be little disagreement here, where so many people insist that an A is all fairylights and sparkly mist that wouldn't survive the rays of sunlight, while a M is forged in the pits from wrought iron - while the second attempts to rank one as better and the other as worse.

 

I think it's fair to say that the recovered M "could never be the same" as the A - after all, the OW and the BW are different people, they'd necessarily bring different attributes to the R, and quite likely evoke different responses in the R from the MM.

 

But taking it a step further to say that the A must NECESSARILY be better than the recovered M - or, conversely, that the recovered M must NECESSARILY be better than the A - is probably largely projection. Each knows only their own R (aside from the MM, who knows both, albeit confusedly) and what they've heard about the other R through other sources. Their values cause them to prioritise certain aspects - almost certainly present in their R - over others (which may not be, and may be present in the other R) and then to universalise those, so that "passion" may be deemed better / worse than "familiarity"; or "partnership" may be foregrounded above "closeness", or whatever. Because it matters TO THEM, and because the MM has previously validated it, it is intensely felt to be true and right - at least in any R which features the MM.

 

Of course, some As will be "better" than a post-DDay M (I hesitate to label it "recovered"), while other Ms post-DDay will be better than some As. It's in the nature of the beast - each situation is different and some will pan out one way, others another - and still others will both flounder equally after DDay leaving the MM better off alone.

 

 

I think it becomes difficult for either partner to accept that the other might be "better" - the "chosen" partner (whether OW or BW) that the choice itself indicates a better fit, and the hard work (which there is for the partner, whether OW or BW) invested seals the bargain. To believe that the MM would himself invest so much effort - and allow the woman he loves, the woman he chose - to invest so much effort - in a R that he deems inferior to the one he rejected seems preposterous, inhuman, cruel. It's simply not conceivable.

 

The partner not "chosen" faces a different problem. They have invested deeply - in quality or quantity, time or intensity - and it's not been "enough", somehow. So they need to change the terms of the contest, implying that somehow it was "unwinnable" for someone in their position - that they were defeated not by inadequacy but by structure. For the OW, that's fairly apparent - he stood to lose far too much by leaving, his kids would suffer, there was simply too much societal pressure keeping him put. For the BW, there are other arguments - he had a MLC, she was younger / prettier / higher profile professionally, she was novel, she was less demanding, she fed his ego, he was selfish... all invoking factors over which she (the OW in the former case, the BW in the latter) had no control. The "inevitability" of the outcome (whichever way, as reconstructed by the unchosen) does not detract from the quality or value of herself as a woman, or the R she offered. No woman in her position could have "won". The dice were loaded.

[Spark1111]

I have read that almost 95% of women will take back a cheating husband. Much less (I don't remember) the stats regarding men who take back a cheating wife. Men have great difficulty eliminating the sexual visuals from their thoughts and seem to have a harder time forgiving the spouse for that reason.

 

So BL, I am not sure why you think few woman reconcile with a cheating spouse.

 

Women tend to be most devastated, not by the sex, but by a WS's emotional and romantic connection with someone else. Men are more devasted by the physical act; two differing love languages, I would guess.

 

As for me; I was devastated to learn the depth of his emotional attachment and the kindness and romance he was showering on his OW. I had been begging for that for years...counseling too...to get back what we did have before his life hit a personal sh*tst**rm, way before he crashed into her!

 

When he began to bring that side back to the relationship, in addition to all the hard work we had to do, it slowly grew amazing.

 

If he had been unwilling to apologize, show true remorse, and change his behavior towards me, I would have divorced him.

 

I guess my bottom line: I did not believe him when he tried to minimize his OW by calling her that famous euphemism, "just friends." I guess I wonder why so many OW/OM believe the MM/MW when they minimize the spouse, especially, when they try to return to them.

 

Believing a man returns for the sake of the children, family history, bonds, etc. is convenient and self-protecting, IMHO. And if it is true, he will find another AP down the road unless he introspects and then communicates his unmet needs. Or, maybe the BS will.

 

As for divorce: When a BS divorces a cheating spouse, most of society supports them in doing so. There is little shame for the divorcing spouse as society percieves them to be the true victim in the triangle.

 

There is little to no support societally for the OW/OM, unfortunately. Why? Because they knew the person was married entering in the relationship. Unfair? Sure, could be. But it is true.

[Brokenlady]

I have read that almost 95% of women will take back a cheating husband. Much less (I don't remember) the stats regarding men who take back a cheating wife. Men have great difficulty eliminating the sexual visuals from their thoughts and seem to have a harder time forgiving the spouse for that reason.

 

So BL, I am not sure why you think few woman reconcile with a cheating spouse.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear....I agree that most women want to reconcile with a WS. What I was referring to is the long-term success of those marriages. It's not good. Despite attempts at reconcilation, it often ends in divorce anyway. IMO, that's in part because trust become irretrieveably broken or because the WS cheats again (or never stopped).

[Spark1111]

I don't think that saying:

 

 

 

is necessarily the same as:

 

 

 

The first states that the two Rs must be qualitatively different - and I think there'd be little disagreement here, where so many people insist that an A is all fairylights and sparkly mist that wouldn't survive the rays of sunlight, while a M is forged in the pits from wrought iron - while the second attempts to rank one as better and the other as worse.

 

I think it's fair to say that the recovered M "could never be the same" as the A - after all, the OW and the BW are different people, they'd necessarily bring different attributes to the R, and quite likely evoke different responses in the R from the MM.

 

But taking it a step further to say that the A must NECESSARILY be better than the recovered M - or, conversely, that the recovered M must NECESSARILY be better than the A - is probably largely projection. Each knows only their own R (aside from the MM, who knows both, albeit confusedly) and what they've heard about the other R through other sources. Their values cause them to prioritise certain aspects - almost certainly present in their R - over others (which may not be, and may be present in the other R) and then to universalise those, so that "passion" may be deemed better / worse than "familiarity"; or "partnership" may be foregrounded above "closeness", or whatever. Because it matters TO THEM, and because the MM has previously validated it, it is intensely felt to be true and right - at least in any R which features the MM.

 

Of course, some As will be "better" than a post-DDay M (I hesitate to label it "recovered"), while other Ms post-DDay will be better than some As. It's in the nature of the beast - each situation is different and some will pan out one way, others another - and still others will both flounder equally after DDay leaving the MM better off alone.

 

 

I think it becomes difficult for either partner to accept that the other might be "better" - the "chosen" partner (whether OW or BW) that the choice itself indicates a better fit, and the hard work (which there is for the partner, whether OW or BW) invested seals the bargain. To believe that the MM would himself invest so much effort - and allow the woman he loves, the woman he chose - to invest so much effort - in a R that he deems inferior to the one he rejected seems preposterous, inhuman, cruel. It's simply not conceivable.

 

The partner not "chosen" faces a different problem. They have invested deeply - in quality or quantity, time or intensity - and it's not been "enough", somehow. So they need to change the terms of the contest, implying that somehow it was "unwinnable" for someone in their position - that they were defeated not by inadequacy but by structure. For the OW, that's fairly apparent - he stood to lose far too much by leaving, his kids would suffer, there was simply too much societal pressure keeping him put. For the BW, there are other arguments - he had a MLC, she was younger / prettier / higher profile professionally, she was novel, she was less demanding, she fed his ego, he was selfish... all invoking factors over which she (the OW in the former case, the BW in the latter) had no control. The "inevitability" of the outcome (whichever way, as reconstructed by the unchosen) does not detract from the quality or value of herself as a woman, or the R she offered. No woman in her position could have "won". The dice were loaded.

 

I so agree OWoman! The dice, no matter what the outcome, were loaded!

 

Had he divorced me, I could say he fell in love with someone else and that was all we wrote. Happens everyday, as painful as it would be to accept and overcome.

 

But I wish I saw more honesty from OW/OM; Why say he/she could never have in a longterm committed relationship what we had in our affair? Why say, too many times to count, he/she returned "out of a sense of duty and obligation?"

 

Once ina blue moon, it would be somewhat refreshing to hear someone admit: "He/She decided that they were truly in love with their spouse."

 

Owoman, you are now married. Is the passion waning? I dare to guess NOT.

[OWoman]

I am not sure why you think few woman reconcile with a cheating spouse.

 

I think this depends on your understanding of "reconcile". If you mean, don't kick him out (immediately) after DDay, then, yes, probably the numbers are as high as you state. But if you mean, the couple does the work required to make a proper go of it, and are still together years later AND ARE HAPPY TO THE EXTENT OF THE PREMISE OF THIS THREAD, ie, that it's a "better R" than even the A, then.... not so many. I don't recall the exact stats, but they've been quoted on this forum ad nauseam, and they're rather sobering.

[Brokenlady]

I think this depends on your understanding of "reconcile". If you mean, don't kick him out (immediately) after DDay, then, yes, probably the numbers are as high as you state. But if you mean, the couple does the work required to make a proper go of it, and are still together years later AND ARE HAPPY TO THE EXTENT OF THE PREMISE OF THIS THREAD, ie, that it's a "better R" than even the A, then.... not so many. I don't recall the exact stats, but they've been quoted on this forum ad nauseam, and they're rather sobering.

 

Yes, this is what I was referring to. I think genuine and successful long-term reconcilation (leading to an improved M post-affair) is pretty rare.

[Spark1111]

Sorry if I wasn't clear....I agree that most women want to reconcile with a WS. What I was referring to is the long-term success of those marriages. It's not good. Despite attempts at reconcilation, it often ends in divorce anyway. IMO, that's in part because trust become irretrieveably broken or because the WS cheats again (or never stopped).

 

Yes, excellent point. True recovery is 2.5 to 5 years, with both partners working hard to.....appreciate each other!

 

Almost impossible after an affair, without IC, MC, talking, reading and most importantly, the WS willing to do the hard work of figuring out the "why" of the affair through tons of introspection and IC. That IS, IF the relationship started off as a love match to begin with!

 

But, as my IC has pointed out, there are all sorts of marriages, and many decline into a contract of duties and obligations. How sad! An affair would not necessarily rock that marriage.

 

In those instances, there was never real intimacy and love to begin with. And I seriously doubt, they post here at loveshack.

 

I truly believe and have always stated, that the devastion one feels in regards to an affair, is in direct proportion to HOW MUCH you loved your spouse.

[Brokenlady]

Once ina blue moon, it would be somewhat refreshing to hear someone admit: "He/She decided that they were truly in love with their spouse."

 

 

I think part of the reason this occurs on LS is not just because OW have a hard time handling that emotionally - it may just not be the experience of the particular posters that are here.

 

As you know, xDM got divorced and treated both of us (me and the xW) badly. Neither I, nor his family, nor his therapist suffered from any delusions that his inability to set boundaries was the result of deep love for his xW. It was the result of his emotional baggage, anxiety, fear, guilt, etc. So, for me in particular, who didn't get "left in the dust" specifically so he could go work on his M, I didn't have the experience to say "wow, he must have really loved her." I'd like to think I'm evolved enough to admit such if I had been in that situation, but I really can't say that I necessarily would. It's an awful thing to have to face, and I'm pretty fragile emotionally as it is.

[OWoman]

But I wish I saw more honesty from OW/OM; Why say he/she could never have in a longterm committed relationship what we had in our affair? Why say, too many times to count, he/she returned "out of a sense of duty and obligation?"

 

Once ina blue moon, it would be somewhat refreshing to hear someone admit: "He/She decided that they were truly in love with their spouse."

 

Because... all the time that the MM was stringing them along with vague promises of leaving "one day", he was claiming that it was duty and obligation kept him there. Whatever their orientation, I think few OWs would take on anything longer than a ONS with a MM who professed undying, true, passionate love for his W. I'm not saying they want him to curse her out as an evil hag - but some fairly neutral, respectful but perhaps unenthusiastic assessment works best. Rating her highly as a mother, a householder, or some other "unglamorous" role, describing her as a friend, or "like a sister", or some other desexualised but positive descriptor. If the MM salivated about his W in front of the OW, he certainly wouldn't be getting any from her.... so she'll have had this reinforced view that the BW is nice, in a kind of auntly way - she'll bake you cake and serve you tea and talk solicitously about your health, but you won't come away thinking, PHWOOAR! She's sex on a stick!

 

So of course, yes, he "loves" his W... like hie loves his mother, his nan, his kids, his sofa in front of the TV, his favourite mismatched socks... but passion? IN love, of the melt-your-trousers kind? Come one - she's his WIFE!

 

Owoman, you are now married. Is the passion waning? I dare to guess NOT.

 

ah - but we're still newlyweds, drifting around in the honeymoon phase, remember? It's only been a year - there's plenty of time yet for TV to take precedence over passion - if all this humping doesn't wear us out, first

[Spark1111]

I think this depends on your understanding of "reconcile". If you mean, don't kick him out (immediately) after DDay, then, yes, probably the numbers are as high as you state. But if you mean, the couple does the work required to make a proper go of it, and are still together years later AND ARE HAPPY TO THE EXTENT OF THE PREMISE OF THIS THREAD, ie, that it's a "better R" than even the A, then.... not so many. I don't recall the exact stats, but they've been quoted on this forum ad nauseam, and they're rather sobering.

 

Yes, If you are willing to do the hard work (and I remain amazed at the number of posters who DO NOT seek professional help under the guise of romantic feelings) it can be absolutely wonderful.

 

Today is the US, 70 percent of ALL divorces are now being filed by women. In some exit poll, no matter what state laws are listed as the reason for divorce, the overwhelming majority stated "neglect" as the number one reason.....

 

This is a cultural phenomenon and is being studied. As woman start to make as much money as men, the old rules no longer apply. We want what we want, and that is emotional fulfillment in our romantic relationships.

 

A woman will forgive a man anything, as long as she feels cherished by him, IMHO.

 

I forgave my husband his affair pretty quickly, because as I have often stated, looking back, I am amazed at that low point in our life, I, too, did not have one. That's the truth.

 

But had he not started immediately to change his behavior towards me, I WOULD HAVE divorced him for the years preceding the affair and then during it.

 

Why? I never felt lonelier and more neglected emotionally in my life.

 

I think there is truth to this.

[grogster]

I think this depends on your understanding of "reconcile". If you mean, don't kick him out (immediately) after DDay, then, yes, probably the numbers are as high as you state. But if you mean, the couple does the work required to make a proper go of it, and are still together years later AND ARE HAPPY TO THE EXTENT OF THE PREMISE OF THIS THREAD, ie, that it's a "better R" than even the A, then.... not so many. I don't recall the exact stats, but they've been quoted on this forum ad nauseam, and they're rather sobering.

 

The consequences of an affair hinge on a number of variables: the quality of the marriage pre-affair; the length and intensity of the affair; the presence of children and their ages.

 

The longer the affair, the older the children and the the lack of any pre-affair spousal heat all militate against any real reconciliation, post-affair.

 

An affair changes the very "feel"of a marriage--for both the BS and WS. The relationship, as felt, its very texture, feels different. An affair, like a strong acid, corrodes, strips and frays a marriage's affective, psychological and emotional bonds even when the marriage endures as a legal (but no longer affectional) bond.

 

True reconciliations are redemptive and good. Nevertheless, I suspect they remain the exception, not the rule.

[Spark1111]

Because... all the time that the MM was stringing them along with vague promises of leaving "one day", he was claiming that it was duty and obligation kept him there. Whatever their orientation, I think few OWs would take on anything longer than a ONS with a MM who professed undying, true, passionate love for his W. I'm not saying they want him to curse her out as an evil hag - but some fairly neutral, respectful but perhaps unenthusiastic assessment works best. Rating her highly as a mother, a householder, or some other "unglamorous" role, describing her as a friend, or "like a sister", or some other desexualised but positive descriptor. If the MM salivated about his W in front of the OW, he certainly wouldn't be getting any from her.... so she'll have had this reinforced view that the BW is nice, in a kind of auntly way - she'll bake you cake and serve you tea and talk solicitously about your health, but you won't come away thinking, PHWOOAR! She's sex on a stick!

 

So of course, yes, he "loves" his W... like hie loves his mother, his nan, his kids, his sofa in front of the TV, his favourite mismatched socks... but passion? IN love, of the melt-your-trousers kind? Come one - she's his WIFE!

 

 

 

ah - but we're still newlyweds, drifting around in the honeymoon phase, remember? It's only been a year - there's plenty of time yet for TV to take precedence over passion - if all this humping doesn't wear us out, first

 

OW, you make me laugh!

 

As he is grousing about me to his affair partner (geez, I can only imagine!) she asks him if he and I are still intimate and he tells her, rarely.

 

She convinces him I must have a boyfriend (hahahaha) and he BELIEVES her!

 

During his affair, we had sex at least twice a week.:p:p

 

I mean the self-delusion is just mind-boggling! Or whatever works in any situation!!!!

[Spark1111]

The consequences of an affair hinge on a number of variables: the quality of the marriage pre-affair; the length and intensity of the affair; the presence of children and their ages.

 

The longer the affair, the older the children and the the lack of any pre-affair spousal heat all militate against any real reconciliation, post-affair.

 

An affair changes the very "feel"of a marriage--for both the BS and WS. The relationship, as felt, its very texture, feels different. An affair, like a strong acid, corrodes, strips and frays a marriage's affective, psychological and emotional bonds even when the marriage endures as a legal (but no longer affectional) bond.

 

True reconciliations are redemptive and good. Nevertheless, I suspect they remain the exception, not the rule.

 

Grogster, I agree! And the five-year mark is key!

 

It is easier to walk away and divorce and seek someone new for BOTH parties than to go through this amount of pain on anyone's behalf.

 

I think it only works if you truly love each other.

[OWoman]

But, as my IC has pointed out, there are all sorts of marriages, and many decline into a contract of duties and obligations. How sad! An affair would not necessarily rock that marriage.

 

In those instances, there was never real intimacy and love to begin with. And I seriously doubt, they post here at loveshack.

 

But their OWs do....

[Brokenlady]

Grogster, I agree! And the five-year mark is key!

 

It is easier to walk away and divorce and seek someone new for BOTH parties than to go through this amount of pain on anyone's behalf.

 

I think it only works if you truly love each other.

 

Generally, i think most women are on board with this idea, but men aren't. If they were, they'd divorce before having an affair. It seems to me that men have completely different ideas about divorce overall. Maybe it has something to do with how they are socialized, or the simple fact that men tend to lose more financially and time with their kids than women.

[OWoman]

It is easier to walk away and divorce and seek someone new for BOTH parties than to go through this amount of pain on anyone's behalf.

 

I think it only works if you truly love each other.

 

I think the effort required in building a healthy R post-A is huge and demanding on BOTH parties, whichever way the outcome goes. If the WS and BS reconcile, they have a huge amount of work ahead - but so do the OW and the MM if they get together. Those same issues - of trust, of honesty, of courage, of communication, of passion, or how to deal with difficulty... - are present in WHICHEVER R survives DDay. There is no "soft landing" if it's going to have a chance to last. The OW knows this as well as the BW - she's seen the same MM twist himself into the same pretzels and she's not having any of it, either - even though she's not been on the receiving end, herself.

 

It's little wonder that the statistics report the long-term survival of so few of these post-A Rs - if the MM, and the OW, are not prepared to put in the effort to ensure a healthy R, what's to stop their R going down the toilet, too? Far easier for the OW to throw her hands up in horror when she discovers that her "prize" is a lemon to dump him and move on to someone else. Far easier for the MM - when confronted with a fOW who is now making demands that he act like a grown-up in all areas of the R, just like that poxy W he dumped - to throw his hands up and slump off to find a new W who will love him and accept him as he is.

[OWoman]

True reconciliations are redemptive and good.

 

I think this is true of whichever R survives post-A. The aftermath of the A - and the A itself, if it is conducted reflexively - offers a rare opportunity for growth, reflection, effort and understanding that (if used well) has enormous pay-off for the R that supercedes it.

[Spark1111]

But their OWs do....

 

Excellent point!

 

Which I think makes the MM/MW more of a slime bag crawling back to reconcile a ho-hum marriage. THESE people just lack the courage of their convictions, IMHO. They deserve to lead loveless lies, cheat repeatedly and leave a wake of broken hearts in the paths of unevolved self-destruction.

[Spark1111]

I think part of the reason this occurs on LS is not just because OW have a hard time handling that emotionally - it may just not be the experience of the particular posters that are here.

 

As you know, xDM got divorced and treated both of us (me and the xW) badly. Neither I, nor his family, nor his therapist suffered from any delusions that his inability to set boundaries was the result of deep love for his xW. It was the result of his emotional baggage, anxiety, fear, guilt, etc. So, for me in particular, who didn't get "left in the dust" specifically so he could go work on his M, I didn't have the experience to say "wow, he must have really loved her." I'd like to think I'm evolved enough to admit such if I had been in that situation, but I really can't say that I necessarily would. It's an awful thing to have to face, and I'm pretty fragile emotionally as it is.

 

Then he DESERVES his confusion if he remains unwilling to try and fix what is broken within himself.

 

BL, your question should be, "What type of relationship does BL deserve?"

 

And when is he going to try to get it?

[Spark1111]

Generally, i think most women are on board with this idea, but men aren't. If they were, they'd divorce before having an affair. It seems to me that men have completely different ideas about divorce overall. Maybe it has something to do with how they are socialized, or the simple fact that men tend to lose more financially and time with their kids than women.

 

I do agree men are more sociallized to not examine their true feelings and it hurts them tremendously, both physically and emotionally in the long run.

 

They are also encouraged at very young ages to suppress feelings, which leads to all sorts of terrible communication skills.

 

Had my husband honestly and kindly expressed what his unmet needs were; had he attended the counseling I begged him to; had he taken all that resentment and anger at circumstances in his own life, and examined it maturely instead of making it all my fault, he would have

 

a) remained in love with me

b) never had an affair whereby another person was so hurt

c) or divorced me and moved on

 

I will never again be in a marriage or relationship where I sit around and wish my partner was a happier person so they could be happier within themselves, happier with the relationship, or happier with me. Period.

[Spark1111]

 

It's little wonder that the statistics report the long-term survival of so few of these post-A Rs - if the MM, and the OW, are not prepared to put in the effort to ensure a healthy R, what's to stop their R going down the toilet, too? Far easier for the OW to throw her hands up in horror when she discovers that her "prize" is a lemon to dump him and move on to someone else. Far easier for the MM - when confronted with a fOW who is now making demands that he act like a grown-up in all areas of the R, just like that poxy W he dumped - to throw his hands up and slump off to find a new W who will love him and accept him as he is.

 

I had never really thought of this OW. If he HAD married his affair partner, it seems that relationship starts off with a whole bunch of unexamined baggage; he might not be the man she thought him to be; she may not be the woman he thought her to be.

 

Fun and games and great sex and great friendship, which is the beginning of any new relationship must eventually mature into a grown-up one with self-sacrifice and shared responsibilities.

 

This is definitely a hard road.

[OWoman]

I had never really thought of this OW. If he HAD married his affair partner, it seems that relationship starts off with a whole bunch of unexamined baggage; he might not be the man she thought him to be; she may not be the woman he thought her to be.

 

Fun and games and great sex and great friendship, which is the beginning of any new relationship must eventually mature into a grown-up one with self-sacrifice and shared responsibilities.

 

This is definitely a hard road.

 

For a man of integrity, wanting a sound, sustainable R - yes. For someone who's learned from the A that there are suckers out there willing to put up with being treated badly - as some OWs and BWs are - maybe not so much. It depends on what you're willing to settle for, I guess.