Better relationship: Affair vrs. Reconciliation?

[Spark1111]

I find it somewhat disheartening and self limiting that so many OW/OM believe that the relationship a reconciled MP chooses after DDay, can in NO WAY be better than the relationship they had with the AP.

 

Why is this?

 

If I have to accept the true feelings (and I do and IT IS devastating!) of my WS for their AP during the affair, why is it so hard to believe that for many of us who choose to reconcile, and work hard at doing so, that the marriage is now the most amazing relationship we could ever have hoped for; maybe EVEN BETTER than the affair for our xWS.

 

Is it painful to believe that?

 

It is no more painful for a BS to believe their spouse was in love with another OW/OM. In fact, it is the reality WE MUST face if we do choose to succesfully reconcile, IMHO.

 

So I tire of reading that the MP "could never have with their wife/husband what we had," as stated by many an OW/OM.

 

Why do you feel that way? Or, why do you need to feel that way? Because I think that is an assumption that can limit, if not healing, than true growth.

 

Opinions, anyone?

[2sure]

A truly reconciled marriage can be WAY better than it was after the crisis of an affair.

 

Even during the reconciliation process, there seem to be just as many WS on here saying WTF did I do as there are BS asking why .

[Brokenlady]

Is it painful to believe that?

 

It is no more painful for a BS to believe their spouse was in love with another OW/OM. In fact, it is the reality WE MUST face if we do choose to succesfully reconcile, IMHO.

 

Actually I think it is more painful for the OW. Why? Because there is no one there soothing them, telling them how sorry they are, how much they are loved right now. It's got to be a whole lot easier to deal with the fact that your SO loved another woman when they renounce that woman and are with you than when you are cast aside, all alone.

 

And from a practical standpoint, the idea of post-affair marital bliss seems unlikely when we know that most reconcilations are unsuccessful (either because of divorce or the WS cheating again). The kind of reconcilation you describe is incredibly rare - perhaps as rare as the MM who leaves their BS for the OW.

[ladydesigner]

I find it somewhat disheartening and self limiting that so many OW/OM believe that the relationship a reconciled MP chooses after DDay, can in NO WAY be better than the relationship they had with the AP.

 

Why is this?

 

If I have to accept the true feelings (and I do and IT IS devastating!) of my WS for their AP during the affair, why is it so hard to believe that for many of us who choose to reconcile, and work hard at doing so, that the marriage is now the most amazing relationship we could ever have hoped for; maybe EVEN BETTER than the affair for our xWS.

 

Is it painful to believe that?

 

It is no more painful for a BS to believe their spouse was in love with another OW/OM. In fact, it is the reality WE MUST face if we do choose to succesfully reconcile, IMHO.

 

So I tire of reading that the MP "could never have with their wife/husband what we had," as stated by many an OW/OM.

 

Why do you feel that way? Or, why do you need to feel that way? Because I think that is an assumption that can limit, if not healing, than true growth.

 

Opinions, anyone?

 

I am both a BS and WS, was a BS first. I chose to reconcile with the H for most of the same reasons in that we had history, a bond, kids, love for each other (yes it is still there).

 

When I look back at the feelings I had for my XOM, they were exactly the same feelings I had for my H when I first met him. I really trully believe that MOST of the time it is the chemicals being released in the brain. I believe there are many people out there that would be considered compatible partners, but then you would have to go through the whole process again of building history and getting to know each other, living through amazing and traumatic events with that person.

 

"could never have with their wife/husband what we had," as stated by many an OW/OM.

 

I think this is only true in the situation when the MP leaves for the AP and after years of being married to that person realize the decision they made was in fact the right one. There still are a lot of these marriages that you read about on LS and other sites that do not survive the marriage. In fact most of the the time the 2nd, 3rd and so on do not make it.

[Samantha0905]

Actually I think it is more painful for the OW. Why? Because there is no one there soothing them, telling them how sorry they are, how much they are loved right now. It's got to be a whole lot easier to deal with the fact that your SO loved another woman when they renounce that woman and are with you than when you are cast aside, all alone.

 

 

I understand what you are saying, but from the WS' point of view -- the single person who is all alone has the opportunity to find someone new and exciting and fall deeply in love. I feel that is an advantage. I suppose there are insecurities from both viewpoints. In my opinion, the WS has a lot to deal with when they head back home. The marriage obviously already had issues (since they were having an affair) and if the BS knows about the affair -- I imagine the environment at home is quite hostile and uncomfortable for a while. It can't be a totally blissful reunion where they skip off into the sunset. There are a lot of problems through which to work. Plus, it's even more difficult if the WS still misses the XAP. Those feelings don't just *poof* go away.

[Spark1111]

A truly reconciled marriage can be WAY better than it was after the crisis of an affair.

 

Even during the reconciliation process, there seem to be just as many WS on here saying WTF did I do as there are BS asking why .

 

I agree!

 

And 2sure, as you have been on ALL sides of the equation, how do YOU evaluate it; that is presuming you once were deeply in love with an AP?

 

I welcome your input on this.

[Spark1111]

Actually I think it is more painful for the OW. Why? Because there is no one there soothing them, telling them how sorry they are, how much they are loved right now. It's got to be a whole lot easier to deal with the fact that your SO loved another woman when they renounce that woman and are with you than when you are cast aside, all alone.

 

And from a practical standpoint, the idea of post-affair marital bliss seems unlikely when we know that most reconcilations are unsuccessful (either because of divorce or the WS cheating again). The kind of reconcilation you describe is incredibly rare - perhaps as rare as the MM who leaves their BS for the OW.

 

BL, on this we will have agree to disagree.

 

There is NO LONELIER place in the world than to be in a marriage with a person you love and have them emotionally check out....and you do not understand why: What am I doing wrong? Why is he such a jerk to me? How come he finds fault with everything I do or say all of a sudden?

 

Those were the loneliest time of my entire life, sharing a life with someone who appears to not give a whit about you and the life you have built together; not if you deeply love that person.

 

You chalk it up to job stress, grieving the death of a parent; mid-life crisis, but you wonder, wonder, wonder why it seems he is just going through the motions and is a million miles away.

 

IMHO, much much worse than the end of a relationship. WHY? Because you question and blame yourself and on some level, you undermine your ego, self-esteem and self-respect as you watch someone fall out of love with you and have no clear idea as to why.

 

At least you OW/OM KNOW WHY it is ending.

 

The BS has no idea until DDAY. And for me, DDay was somewhat of a relief in the sense, "oh....wait a minute....there IS SOMEONE ELSE."

 

It explains so much to us.

[Spark1111]

I am both a BS and WS, was a BS first. I chose to reconcile with the H for most of the same reasons in that we had history, a bond, kids, love for each other (yes it is still there).

 

When I look back at the feelings I had for my XOM, they were exactly the same feelings I had for my H when I first met him. I really trully believe that MOST of the time it is the chemicals being released in the brain. I believe there are many people out there that would be considered compatible partners, but then you would have to go through the whole process again of building history and getting to know each other, living through amazing and traumatic events with that person.

 

 

 

I think this is only true in the situation when the MP leaves for the AP and after years of being married to that person realize the decision they made was in fact the right one. There still are a lot of these marriages that you read about on LS and other sites that do not survive the marriage. In fact most of the the time the 2nd, 3rd and so on do not make it.

 

Yes, I agree...wherever you go, there you are.

 

If we expect to always have the hormonal rush of the infatuation and "falling in love" phase....well, based on what I have read, that lasts about two years when you are with the person day in and day out. If you are together only intermittantly, as in many affairs, it is sustained for a much longer period of time.

 

But yes, once married again, day in and day out, that heady feeling will once again last for about two years.

 

Some people may be doomed to finding a new partner every two years, if that is what they believe sustained love SHOULD BE.

[Snowflower]

BL, on this we will have agree to disagree.

 

There is NO LONELIER place in the world than to be in a marriage with a person you love and have them emotionally check out....and you do not understand why: What am I doing wrong? Why is he such a jerk to me? How come he finds fault with everything I do or say all of a sudden?

 

Those were the loneliest time of my entire life, sharing a life with someone who appears to not give a whit about you and the life you have built together; not if you deeply love that person.

 

You chalk it up to job stress, grieving the death of a parent; mid-life crisis, but you wonder, wonder, wonder why it seems he is just going through the motions and is a million miles away.

 

IMHO, much much worse than the end of a relationship. WHY? Because you question and blame yourself and on some level, you undermine your ego, self-esteem and self-respect as you watch someone fall out of love with you and have no clear idea as to why.

 

At least you OW/OM KNOW WHY it is ending.

 

The BS has no idea until DDAY. And for me, DDay was somewhat of a relief in the sense, "oh....wait a minute....there IS SOMEONE ELSE."

 

It explains so much to us.

 

Oh Spark, your post here almost made me cry! I can relate perfectly.

 

I responded on a thread over in the OW/OM forum that the BS is thrown under the bus by their WS the moment the affair begins. The difference is that the many (most) times, the BS doesn't even know they're being thrown under the bus, or at least why things are changing in the marriage so quickly.

 

And what you wrote here explains that well...

 

I almost felt a sense of crazy relief when my H confessed his A. I had driven myself crazy with why, why, why? Why did he no longer want to be married? Why was he acting like a stranger? Why was he so unhappy with me/our life together? I went to IC, begged for MC, nothing worked...just endless questioning by me.

 

And yes, it was the loneliest place in the world...to watch your marriage, your family, your life together, coming apart at the seams and not understanding WHY.

 

About a week before my H confessed his A, I remember saying to him that I would never understand why he just threw away our marriage without any explanation (he had gone to a see a divorce attorney and told me about it). I remember telling him that his admitting to an affair would be easier to take than ending our 19 year relationship without a reason.

 

It was that difficult for me.

[Spark1111]

I understand what you are saying, but from the WS' point of view -- the single person who is all alone has the opportunity to find someone new and exciting and fall deeply in love. I feel that is an advantage. I suppose there are insecurities from both viewpoints. In my opinion, the WS has a lot to deal with when they head back home. The marriage obviously already had issues (since they were having an affair) and if the BS knows about the affair -- I imagine the environment at home is quite hostile and uncomfortable for a while. It can't be a totally blissful reunion where they skip off into the sunset. There are a lot of problems through which to work. Plus, it's even more difficult if the WS still misses the XAP. Those feelings don't just *poof* go away.

 

No they do not. Imagine how painful it is to witness your spouse mourn their OW/OM for a while. Horribly devastating.

 

And please, do not assume your xAP is or has been truthful about attempts to reconcile....because I do not think that is the case often. I believe they try to let the xOW/OM down gently in most cases, and often begin to relentlessly pursue the spouse they "thought" they had so many issues with.

 

I think it would do all of us a lot of good to stop romanticizing both the affair and the marriage and begin to examine more closely the motivations of the person who cheats: What are the unmet needs that are met by the AP? The spouse?

 

I think it would help us all understand how we got into this situation, don't you?

[Spark1111]

Oh Spark, your post here almost made me cry! I can relate perfectly.

 

I responded on a thread over in the OW/OM forum that the BS is thrown under the bus by their WS the moment the affair begins. The difference is that the many (most) times, the BS doesn't even know they're being thrown under the bus, or at least why things are changing in the marriage so quickly.

 

And what you wrote here explains that well...

 

I almost felt a sense of crazy relief when my H confessed his A. I had driven myself crazy with why, why, why? Why did he no longer want to be married? Why was he acting like a stranger? Why was he so unhappy with me/our life together? I went to IC, begged for MC, nothing worked...just endless questioning by me.

 

And yes, it was the loneliest place in the world...to watch your marriage, your family, your life together, coming apart at the seams and not understanding WHY.

 

About a week before my H confessed his A, I remember saying to him that I would never understand why he just threw away our marriage without any explanation (he had gone to a see a divorce attorney and told me about it). I remember telling him that his admitting to an affair would be easier to take than ending our 19 year relationship without a reason.

 

It was that difficult for me.

 

I agree completely.

 

As we attempted to reconcile, I told him that being in a loveless marriage and not knowing the cause of it was the loneliest I had ever felt in my entire life.

 

I almost visited a divorce attorney, and then decided I would wait until I got our youngest child happily ensconced in college before making a change. I did not want my action to unsettle our son until he was aclimated to his new surroundings.

 

So my very strong maternal instinct won out, and I bided my time, and then DDay hit.

 

I will NEVER do that again. I will NEVER be in a relationship like that again. And I have been very clear what I need and want from him to stay here with him.

 

And it is all good. In fact, amazing for the both of us. And it is the hardest we, he and I, have worked to put humpty-dumpty back together again, not like before, but better, much better than before.

 

I would not still be here for anything less.

Snowflower, neither would you.

[PhoenixRise]

I find it somewhat disheartening and self limiting that so many OW/OM believe that the relationship a reconciled MP chooses after DDay, can in NO WAY be better than the relationship they had with the AP.

 

Why is this?

 

 

So I tire of reading that the MP "could never have with their wife/husband what we had," as stated by many an OW/OM.

 

Why do you feel that way? Or, why do you need to feel that way? Because I think that is an assumption that can limit, if not healing, than true growth.

 

Opinions, anyone?

 

Spark

 

I think it comes down to this, nobody who actually wanted to have an exclusive relationship with the WS wants to think that they helped to reawaken passion/zest for life/zest for love in a MP only to see the benefit of that reawakening go to the spouse. So they would rather think it is unachievable with the spouse.

 

AND I agree with you that holding this belief is just as self limiting as a BS not acknowledging that there were genuine feelings in the A.

[jennie-jennie]

I find it somewhat disheartening and self limiting that so many OW/OM believe that the relationship a reconciled MP chooses after DDay, can in NO WAY be better than the relationship they had with the AP.

 

Why is this?

 

If I have to accept the true feelings (and I do and IT IS devastating!) of my WS for their AP during the affair, why is it so hard to believe that for many of us who choose to reconcile, and work hard at doing so, that the marriage is now the most amazing relationship we could ever have hoped for; maybe EVEN BETTER than the affair for our xWS.

 

Is it painful to believe that?

 

It is no more painful for a BS to believe their spouse was in love with another OW/OM. In fact, it is the reality WE MUST face if we do choose to succesfully reconcile, IMHO.

 

So I tire of reading that the MP "could never have with their wife/husband what we had," as stated by many an OW/OM.

 

Why do you feel that way? Or, why do you need to feel that way? Because I think that is an assumption that can limit, if not healing, than true growth.

 

Opinions, anyone?

 

Actually I think it is more painful for the OW. Why? Because there is no one there soothing them, telling them how sorry they are, how much they are loved right now. It's got to be a whole lot easier to deal with the fact that your SO loved another woman when they renounce that woman and are with you than when you are cast aside, all alone.

 

And from a practical standpoint, the idea of post-affair marital bliss seems unlikely when we know that most reconcilations are unsuccessful (either because of divorce or the WS cheating again). The kind of reconcilation you describe is incredibly rare - perhaps as rare as the MM who leaves their BS for the OW.

 

BrokenLady is talking about AFTER Dday, not before, just like you were, Spark, in your original post.

[Spark1111]

BrokenLady is talking about AFTER Dday, not before, just like you were, Spark, in your original post.

 

Oh, yes, I know. I stand by that not knowing the "why" of someone seemingly falling out of love with you, almost despising you, living with that, is much more painful than knowing why a relationship is ending.

 

I think it easier to adjust to "well, he WAS married, and he went home to try and make that work," to not knowing WTF happened to our love?

 

It is the secrecy of the affair, and the NOT KNOWING OF IT, that just kills your soul.

 

As for the inital I love yous and I'm sorrys....most BSs are too enraged to believe any of it intially.

 

You are sorry you got caught, IMHO.

 

Like I have said in counseling, when someone has lied to your face for such a long time, you believe NOTHING they say after DDAy.

 

NOTHING! You do not believe they ARE sorry or that they could even possibly even understand the meaning of the word LOVE.

 

If you do eventually try to reconcile, because you did love them deeply at one time, they have to prove it, with words and actions, for a very long time if they expect to regain trust.

[Snowflower]

Oh, yes, I know. I stand by that not knowing the "why" of someone seemingly falling out of love with you, almost despising you, living with that, is much more painful than knowing why a relationship is ending.

 

 

 

Also, the timeline is different for an AP vs a BS. For the AP, it is after d-day when/if they are thrown under the bus that is the most painful. The AP is often left high and dry with little explanation as to what is going on with their MP. It's posted here all over forums like these...sudden NC by the MP, unanswered texts/calls/emails. It's like the MP has often dropped off the face of the earth. I've never been an OW but I would imagine this would be very confusing and painful for all contact with/from the MP to suddenly cease with little/no explanation.

 

For the BS (and I think this is what Spark was alluding to), the painful time of not understanding why the relationship/marriage is likely ending is before d-day, at least many times. The BS knows there is something wrong prior to d-day but doesn't know what. Their spouse has pulled away from them, is asking for a divorce, etc., etc. But yet, the BS has to live with that...especially if the WS is still living in the same house with painful reminders all around of happier times. Talk about confusion!

 

If the relationship clearly ends (through divorce, the WS leaves for the AP, the WS throws the AP under the bus, etc) at least it is obvious to everyone involved that the relationship is over. There is no living in limbo, no wondering, etc. The relationship is just finished. Easier to deal with, IMO.

[Samantha0905]

No they do not. Imagine how painful it is to witness your spouse mourn their OW/OM for a while. Horribly devastating.

 

And please, do not assume your xAP is or has been truthful about attempts to reconcile....because I do not think that is the case often. I believe they try to let the xOW/OM down gently in most cases, and often begin to relentlessly pursue the spouse they "thought" they had so many issues with.

 

I think it would do all of us a lot of good to stop romanticizing both the affair and the marriage and begin to examine more closely the motivations of the person who cheats: What are the unmet needs that are met by the AP? The spouse?

 

I think it would help us all understand how we got into this situation, don't you?

 

I don't know if you understood what I was saying. I was saying I think it is just as hard on the WS leaving the affair as it is on the OM/OW. I was not comparing that to the pain the BS feels at all. My spouse does not know, so I have not had to witness that pain and it's why I'm choosing not to tell him so far. I'm in counseling to figure out what to do about it.

 

I also had a single OM, so I'm did not have to worry about him going back to his spouse. I was simply saying as a single person it may be even easier for him to move on than it was for me to head back into a marriage situation where I felt unhappy anyway.

 

Anyway -- perhaps it was a misunderstanding as to what I was referring.

[John Who]

Even though my M ended after I came clean of my EA,I think you are right most M can become better after the A.

 

I say this because I have learned from my EA,I am a better person,if only my xW would give me another chance she would see for herself.

 

Another reason I know several people who were in a A,after coming clean and opening up to one another and working things out,they have said they are in love all over again with the spouse and life is a whole lot better.They have also said they were never in love with the ow/om at the time they thought they were in love, being involved in a A confuses you,clouds your judgment I can relate to this as well.

[Snowflower]

Even though my M ended after I came clean of my EA,I think you are right most M can become better after the A.

 

I say this because I have learned from my EA,I am a better person,if only my xW would give me another chance she would see for herself.

 

Another reason I know several people who were in a A,after coming clean and opening up to one another and working things out,they have said they are in love all over again with the spouse and life is a whole lot better.They have also said they were never in love with the ow/om at the time they thought they were in love, being involved in a A confuses you,clouds your judgment I can relate to this as well.

 

John, thank you so much for sharing this perspective.

 

I'm sorry things didn't work out for you and your wife. Hopefully the lessons you learned will serve you well in future relationships. Do you think your ex-wife would give you another chance if you could explain and show how you have become a better person?

 

My H had to work very hard to show me that he had become a better person as the result of his painful choices. But, we have built a better marriage and a stronger love for one another just like you described.

 

But again, thank you for sharing your thoughts from the viewpoint of a former MM.

[Brokenlady]

BL, on this we will have agree to disagree.

 

There is NO LONELIER place in the world than to be in a marriage with a person you love and have them emotionally check out....and you do not understand why: What am I doing wrong? Why is he such a jerk to me? How come he finds fault with everything I do or say all of a sudden?

 

Please consider that MM quite often are telling the OW that they are commiting to them, that they are going to leave, then "suddenly" change their mind at d-day. These are the same questions OW will ask themselves. And when the MM inevtiably stays in the M, it becomes and endless loop of the question "why wasn't I good enough? Why did he throw me away to save what he said was already gone (the M), etc"

 

From an ego perspective consider this: MM tear down the W in the eyes of the OW, so when he decides to stay in the M, it's a feeling that the W is "better" than the OW, yet the W is "terrible", so what does that say to the OW about herself? Not a pretty picture. Not saying any of this is accurate, but it is what tends to go thru OW's minds.

 

Those were the loneliest time of my entire life, sharing a life with someone who appears to not give a whit about you and the life you have built together; not if you deeply love that person.

 

And it's awfully terribly painful to be cast aside for another woman completely - the BS get the benefit of efforts being made by the MM mto reconile while the OW gets regrets. She feels utterly unloved, and in some cases, completely unloveable when she gets thrown away.

 

You chalk it up to job stress, grieving the death of a parent; mid-life crisis, but you wonder, wonder, wonder why it seems he is just going through the motions and is a million miles away.

 

Again, consider the OW perspective - you already KNOW why he's "out there" - he's deeply involved with another woman (his W). It's a constant a subtle reminder of where you fall on the food chain, and it's rough. Really rough.

 

IMHO, much much worse than the end of a relationship. WHY? Because you question and blame yourself and on some level, you undermine your ego, self-esteem and self-respect as you watch someone fall out of love with you and have no clear idea as to why. At least you OW/OM KNOW WHY it is ending.

 

The questioning, the doubt, the self-blame all happens with a jilted OW too. The only real difference is knowing why. But knowing doesn't make it any easier, IMO.

 

I think perhaps a more accurate comparison would be to imagine how you would feel if your WS left you for the OW. That's pretty much how an OW who gets dumped at D-day feels, rightly or wrongly. It's the evaporation of the future and so many other things. The idea of "freedom" doesn't come for a long time, and the BS always has that option too - she doesn't HAVE to reconcile with the WS. IF she chooses too, then I don't think it's fair to complain about a lack of freedom, IMO.

 

These kinds of discussions seem to lead to who hurts worse - and I don't think there is any good or accurate answer. Everyone gets hurts, very badly, just in different ways.

[Brokenlady]

Imagine how painful it is to witness your spouse mourn their OW/OM for a while. Horribly devastating.

 

Well, coming from the other side of the coin, I can say without a doubt it's no picnic either. I had to watch my xDM mourn his xW. As terrible as she was to him and the kids, she was still a huge part of his life for 20 years, and he had her on a pedestal as the mother of his children. It is wrenching to watch the one you love almost pining for someone else. (Although, in my case, I think he missed the familiarity, the social approval, etc of staying M more than he missed her, but all the good qualities in her diminished because of her hurt and anger towards him, so he missed the good things about her too, and the familial togetherness of an intact family, seeing his kids every day, etc.)

 

For years I listened to him talk about how much pain he was in at home, and when he finally gathered the courage to leave it looked like he wanted to go right back into the cage. He'd spend more time with her post-seperation than they did before. He'd be on the phone with her constantly, even while I was there trying to spend time with him (discussing their relationship, marriage, etc). Most of the time it still felt like he was pretending he was still her husband and i didn't get the benefit of his partnership. It was AWFUL. And I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

I imagine being a BS watching him mourn an OW is like this, so I can empathize. Knowing all this, i think if I ended up a BS in the future, I'd be inclined to just leave. I couldn't put myself through that again.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Brokenlady

[Spark1111]

I don't know if you understood what I was saying. I was saying I think it is just as hard on the WS leaving the affair as it is on the OM/OW. I was not comparing that to the pain the BS feels at all. My spouse does not know, so I have not had to witness that pain and it's why I'm choosing not to tell him so far. I'm in counseling to figure out what to do about it.

 

I also had a single OM, so I'm did not have to worry about him going back to his spouse. I was simply saying as a single person it may be even easier for him to move on than it was for me to head back into a marriage situation where I felt unhappy anyway.

 

Anyway -- perhaps it was a misunderstanding as to what I was referring.

 

Curious Sam....If you tell your husband and he tells you to pursue your single OM, and your OM is still available and wants to continue the relationship with you....what would you do?

 

There is some truth to the fact that now two people in a marriage will begin to hammer away at all issues in the relationship after DDay, not just the affair, but all pent up resentments...as either a start of reconciliation or a start towards the closure of divorce.

 

And the OW/OM is not privy to these discussions, and it must certainly be painful to be instantly shut out from them.

 

But I do not think it is easier if the OM or OW is single for them to move forward, not if they truly loved their AP. I think it may even be lonelier as stated by some posters, because they do not have a fall back relationship, even a terrible one, in which to hammer upon.

 

And as a former BS, I was the one who did not want the WS back, and he lived in his confused limbo land for quite awhile as I tried to make up my mind.

 

While many BSs are initially willing to forgive the affair, it is a combination of the lies and deception, coupled with the distancing and downright meanness of the WS during the affair, that hurts the most IMHO.

[Spark1111]

Even though my M ended after I came clean of my EA,I think you are right most M can become better after the A.

 

I say this because I have learned from my EA,I am a better person,if only my xW would give me another chance she would see for herself.

 

Another reason I know several people who were in a A,after coming clean and opening up to one another and working things out,they have said they are in love all over again with the spouse and life is a whole lot better.They have also said they were never in love with the ow/om at the time they thought they were in love, being involved in a A confuses you,clouds your judgment I can relate to this as well.

 

Thank you for sharing yor perspective John.

 

Did your OW believe you loved her? What happened to her in the aftermath, if it is not too personal to answer?

[Spark1111]

Well, coming from the other side of the coin, I can say without a doubt it's no picnic either. I had to watch my xDM mourn his xW. As terrible as she was to him and the kids, she was still a huge part of his life for 20 years, and he had her on a pedestal as the mother of his children. It is wrenching to watch the one you love almost pining for someone else. (Although, in my case, I think he missed the familiarity, the social approval, etc of staying M more than he missed her, but all the good qualities in her diminished because of her hurt and anger towards him, so he missed the good things about her too, and the familial togetherness of an intact family, seeing his kids every day, etc.)

 

For years I listened to him talk about how much pain he was in at home, and when he finally gathered the courage to leave it looked like he wanted to go right back into the cage. He'd spend more time with her post-seperation than they did before. He'd be on the phone with her constantly, even while I was there trying to spend time with him (discussing their relationship, marriage, etc). Most of the time it still felt like he was pretending he was still her husband and i didn't get the benefit of his partnership. It was AWFUL. And I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

I imagine being a BS watching him mourn an OW is like this, so I can empathize. Knowing all this, i think if I ended up a BS in the future, I'd be inclined to just leave. I couldn't put myself through that again.

 

BL. two years post DDay, I have read and researched and IC and MC, and have come to this conclusion:

 

A man or woman grows despondent, unhappy or bored within themselves. Petty resentments, hurts, or a lack passion, complacency, all grow hugely disproportionate to make it "I am unhappily married and it is my spouse's fault. If only I felt the way I use to when we first fell in love, If only THEY were more sexual, attentive, passionate....fill in the blank. Poor me! I am unappreciated, disrespected, my life really sucks so it must be their fault."

 

They then crash into "new" who hangs on there every word. They can reinvent themselves in the attracted eyes of a new person who has no idea of anything, only what they are being told, which is my marriage sucks. The new person is never told how they contributed to the demise of their marriage, it is just someone else's fault, the spouse's. MUCH is exaggerated when a WS has reached this stage.

 

Now, because new is sooo stimulating and exciting, and this is somewhat forbidden and secret, the passion is off the charts. The WS will now do anything to keep this shot of adrenaline flowing with "I love yous," "You are the one I need in my future," "I have never been so happy with anyone as I am with you."

 

The new person begins to fall in love. They have never had this excitement, passion and intimacy with ANYONE. Not only does this feel like the real deal, it feels better than any real deal they have ever had.

 

The BS, who knows nothing except over the course of a few months, everything has become an argument, a criticism, a cold distancing in the marriage, begins to lose their soul as they watch someone fall out of love with them. They either try harder, or move away from their spouse because this limbo land is too painful to dwell in.

 

The affair triangle has been pefectly set in place and may go on for years.

 

Confusion is not love. Waffling is not love. Lying is not love. Because true love is not suppose to hurt so many people. It is NOT selfish, and at the heart of the triangle, the MM/MW is maybe the most selfish person on the planet when they play the OW/OM and BS off each other for their personal benefit.

 

The MM or MW, in their confusion, lies to their OW/OM, lies to their BS, but mostly lies to THEMSELVES to keep this dynamic going for as long as they can, or until a DDAY, or until someone establishes and enforces NC.

 

It MUST be the truth, because so many of them try to return to the spouse they have painted as terrible. We read this classic scenario over and over and over again here at LS. It is almost a cliche and has nothing to do with true love. It is romance and drama and it makes the very selfish feel more alive.

 

And it causes untold pain, even if now I believe it had little to do with me, little to do with you.

 

Don't own it! It has to do with the WS and their confusion, not love for you or me.

[Samantha0905]

Curious Sam....If you tell your husband and he tells you to pursue your single OM, and your OM is still available and wants to continue the relationship with you....what would you do?

 

Now, that's a good question. I've considered it. If my husband were going to walk away from me and leave me to pursue my single OM, I would. By walking away, I mean if I knew he was out of here and not coming back.

 

If my husband were going to say choose between me and him -- that would give me a lot of pause. Maybe complete pause -- since I'm home and I had the choice to keep my XOM. It's a weird situation and I know you may not have sympathy for my plight -- but it stinks. I love a lot of parts of my husband -- his kindness, his love for me (which I think may be waning, by the way -- for obvious reasons), his responsibility, his ability to be a good father..... I do feel a very deep sense of loss from not having an adult sexual relationship with my husband. I hate not feeling womanly with him. I hate we've come to a big wall we cannot cross in that department. It may seem trivial to some people. I do feel sexuality is a very important part of being an adult human being. I hate that part being missing in my marriage. I hate I'm getting older and am starting to feel like I may miss out on that in life all together.

 

There is some truth to the fact that now two people in a marriage will begin to hammer away at all issues in the relationship after DDay, not just the affair, but all pent up resentments...as either a start of reconciliation or a start towards the closure of divorce.

Yes. It has to be difficult. It's frustrating in many ways. If two people love each other, why can't they overcome? If they (we) had it in them (us) to be together 33 years in life -- why can't they (we) overcome what shouldn't have been that difficult in the first place? It drives me insane we started out awkward. I never even had that beginning we love to have sex with each other feeling. I really do think people should not get married at 21. Maybe not in the 20s at all. I definitely do not think people should wait until they get married to have sex. I know God would beg to differ.

 

And the OW/OM is not privy to these discussions, and it must certainly be painful to be instantly shut out from them.

Yes. He fulfilled what I was missing.

 

But I do not think it is easier if the OM or OW is single for them to move forward, not if they truly loved their AP. I think it may even be lonelier as stated by some posters, because they do not have a fall back relationship, even a terrible one, in which to hammer upon.

That's what my OM said.

 

And as a former BS, I was the one who did not want the WS back, and he lived in his confused limbo land for quite awhile as I tried to make up my mind.

 

While many BSs are initially willing to forgive the affair, it is a combination of the lies and deception, coupled with the distancing and downright meanness of the WS during the affair, that hurts the most IMHO.

So, are you divorced? I'm not ambivalent about the feelings of a BS. I would HATE to be in that position. I HATE being in my position. I feel like a not nice person for doing what I have done. Not nice to my husband. Not nice to my OM. Not nice to my children. And I'm mad at myself. I get mad at my spouse also -- to be honest. Why doesn't he ask why? Why did you move out for six months? Why are you unhappy? Why don't we have sex? Why something?!! Anything!! It's frustrating.

[NoIDidn't]

Please consider that MM quite often are telling the OW that they are commiting to them, that they are going to leave, then "suddenly" change their mind at d-day. These are the same questions OW will ask themselves. And when the MM inevtiably stays in the M, it becomes and endless loop of the question "why wasn't I good enough? Why did he throw me away to save what he said was already gone (the M), etc"

 

I think this is part of the main reason that OW/OM believe so strongly that the reconciliation won't be successful or that it couldn't possibly be as great as the A was.

 

From an ego perspective consider this: MM tear down the W in the eyes of the OW, so when he decides to stay in the M, it's a feeling that the W is "better" than the OW, yet the W is "terrible", so what does that say to the OW about herself? Not a pretty picture. Not saying any of this is accurate, but it is what tends to go thru OW's minds.

 

This is no different from the feelings of the W after a d-day. Knowing that she was likely made out to be a shrew. Knowing that there were times during that marriage that she was a shrew. The A is a shot across the bow for a BW. She now knows the depths to which some will stoop to take her life from her.

 

 

 

And it's awfully terribly painful to be cast aside for another woman completely - the BS get the benefit of efforts being made by the MM mto reconile while the OW gets regrets. She feels utterly unloved, and in some cases, completely unloveable when she gets thrown away.

 

I can't agree that the OW was "cast aside" for another woman. She was removed from a life she didn't belong in. A MM goes back for his *life* too.

 

 

{snip}

 

These kinds of discussions seem to lead to who hurts worse - and I don't think there is any good or accurate answer. Everyone gets hurts, very badly, just in different ways.

 

I disagree. They only become that way if someone makes them that way. This thread seems to be about asking why the OW/OM seem to always think that the reconciled marriage will never compare to whatever they felt the A was, not about who is hurting or not. Maybe if we stayed on the topic, which isn't pain but love and reconciliation, it won't turn into a contest of who hurts more.