Kamille Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Another thing I want to point out is that by laying out an ultimatum, you would be transferring responsibility for your well-being in this relationship onto him. That's unfair to you both. What do you want? Tell him. He can either accomodate or he can't, but at least you will have spoken up for yourself. And then, you can decide if you want to continue in the R.
Author Awesome Username Posted March 2, 2010 Author Posted March 2, 2010 Is there something so wrong with your emotions that they must be repressed at all times? When I was younger I wasn't allowed to get angry because, among other things, I was afraid that if I got angry at anyone who took care of me, I would be out on the street. I kind of hopped from one home to another for a while, keeping it in and holding everything together. Angry = homeless. I honestly can only remember two times in my life where I've yelled at anyone. I was in survival mode for a long time. Now that I'm safe and life is good, I still have some of that fear of people I love leaving me at the drop of a dime, if I stand up for myself. I have never gotten angry with a boyfriend in my entire life...I know that if I don't learn how to do it sometime, I'm never going to have my word and I'll put myself through my own little Hell all over again. Every year it gets better, so I'm actually really hopeful that I might be at the point where I could learn to express my negative emotions freely, if and when I have them. Being passive when you know that naturally you truly are not, is very debilitating.
Author Awesome Username Posted March 2, 2010 Author Posted March 2, 2010 To me, it's really simple. TBF actually gave it a terminology when she opined that my people-picker was impaired (paraphrasing). You have the right idea. Your desires are healthy. You're just picking inappropriate people to walk that path with. I've been watching this more carefully as I transition to dating and can now clearly see it when the old habits creep in. Clarity, even if a bit painful, is instructive. Since you have no shortage of suitors, be selective and take your time. Value yourself and the happiness you have to share. You can show your assertiveness by moving on from people you do not find to be compatible and proactively working with and investing in those whom you do find compatible. Hope it works out for you You're right Carhill, that is a form of being assertive, isn't it? Knowing when to stay and when to leave. I won't show assertiveness in a crazy ultimatum...I'll show it if I know that it's not gonna go anywhere. God, grant me patience NOW!
Kamille Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 That is quite a past AU and certainly explains why you struggle to express negative emotions. Yet, not all negative emotions should be equated with "anger". And, within the category "anger", there are different levels. I had to learn that expressing displeasure, concern, discomfort, disagreement didn't automatically mean I was angry. You can express your needs in non-confrontational ways. First, you need to know what they are and second realize that your needs are legitimate.
carhill Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 It's always tough when it's someone you like (or love). IMO, the key is acceptance of that like (or love) and of what you feel is a healthy balance for you. 'I deserve xxxx and that is healthy for me'. If this relationship is not meeting that standard, communicate it in terms of how you feel (not what he should do or not do or say) and, if no joy, move on. I found that process (deciding with my stbx to divorce) quite calming. Clear communication and action. Acceptance
threebyfate Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Anger is a healthy emotion, as long as you control and funnel it, with logic and ethical boundaries. It can be one wickedly powerful tool.
melodymatters Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Wow ! From the first post I was confused : To me, being exclusive is the same thing as BF/GF ! I always thought whether you called it monogomy, being exclusive, going steady, it meant the same darn thing, but it seems a few of you, spookie and Kamille for example, have had different experiences ! Quite the eye opener ! Am I alone here ? Remembering back, I think once we had the excusivity talk, I just automatically referred to them as my BF, and no one ever corrected me !
Lucky555 Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 I feel the same way you do in your current situation. Now its two months. I was happy in the beginning till now that I see I'm not getting a "commitment" as in BOYFRIEND. I have had the exclusive talk with the guy but hes not acting like a boyfriend and I don't think he wants the title..his facebook is the same "single". Ok so facebook may not mean much but to me it says I am serious about someone so don't look for a relationship with me. Even if he just removed the relationship status i would be happy. Thats the least of my worries right now because as far as i can tell he isn't doing the boyfriend stuff. I don't want to pressure him either to say he is my boyfriend as he has not mentioned anything about me being his girlfriend. This has been bothering me for a long time now, I liked your ultimatums! I was considering doing the same. I can meet other guys, i like this guy. However, soon i am going to tell him I don't think he is that interested in me because of the way things are going between us. I don't want to get into something more serious (having sex) if this is the way we continue. this is what i plan on saying. Its been bugging me for about three weeks now. I don't know what he will say but i certainly am NOT GOING TO BE USED. There are guys who sincerely want a commitment, i know this. I do believe we can have more connections with more than one person. I am not going to make myself available to a guy who doesn't view me as a potential long-term partner. This is what i want. I am not going to be put on the back burner while he pursues someone else either. You have to know what you want and go for it or you will be miserable. Right now I am miserable because I gave my word that i was exclusive. I am honest and its hard for me to go out and find someone new without ending this one first or seeing if it could be "fixed". I think if your guy says he will not be your boyfriend and that is what you want...then you need to end it. DONT settle for less than you deserve. I am waiting for the right time...which will be soon. Lately i have been putting it off.
pantherj Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Carhill, I just want someone that I like to like me back. I feel like I have to create the right environment for a guy to be able to do that, and part of it is not being easily led and tossed aside. Some girls out there have guys that get ahold of them every day or every other day, and are proud to show them off and talk about them to other people. Mine are sweet and giving at first, and as soon as they have my attention they ignore me...like I've already been won and that's what it's about. I need to be more aggressive and assertive, but I'm lost as to how and when to do it (therefore making an ultimatum thread...lol!). I am a very emotional person but I hide it very well in front of other people so I can be a decent, logical person. If I'm suddenly supposed to show them in real time to a guy so he will respect me and I don't have to creepily bring up small things later...I honestly don't know what I'm supposed to do. Imo your problems stem from your childhood. Children are ego centric, and they believe that if they don't recieve enough love/care, then they are 100% to blame. This leads to toxic shame, a core belief in one's defectivenes. When a person has toxic shame, they feel a deep desire to compensate for their percieved flaws. As a child, the thought process is something like "what did I do to make mom walk off and leave me here?" Or "what did I do to make dad so angry?" and "There must be something wrong with me. Mom doesn't smile at me very often. I'll have to make up for my flaws by being as perfect as possible. I'll never do ___ again, that way they won't reject me. That way they will love me." "I hide it very well in front of other people so I can be a decent, logical person." "so he will respect me and I don't have to creepily bring up small things later" "and as soon as they have my attention they ignore me" You have decided to compensate for your toxic shame by hinding your emotions. I suspect that you are choosing to intereract with men who are likely to be emotionally unavailable to you. This allows you to play out your childhood experiences. "Oh no! It's my attention that drives my parent/caretaker away! Wait, maybe it's my emotions! I'll figure this out." So long as you have toxic shame, you will go for men who don't offer you enough love and acceptance. "I just want someone that I like to like me back. I feel like I have to create the right environment for a guy to be able to do that" You will continue to come up with ways to try and compensate for your toxic shame. He doesn't love me because I didn't manipulate the environment, hide my emotions, show enough of my emotions, or give him exactly the right amount of attention. You must rid yourself of toxic shame, and then you will pick men who are likely to be emotionally available to you. So long as you're trying to hide your toxic shame, you will find yourself around men who prey on women with toxic shame. You're an easy target. Womanizers can see you a mile away. "I need to be more aggressive and assertive, but I'm lost as to how and when to do it" Dump your toxic shame and you won't feel lost, and you won't try to hide behind cooky schemes and plans to make guys like you. Here is my advice: 1.) Dump your bf. He's with you because he knows you have toxic shame. You're not fooling him, and he's bad for you. 2.) If you are friends with other people who have toxic shame, lose them. You can come back to them later. 3.) Avoid men for the time being. They clearly trigger your toxic shame. 4.) Spend time with women who don't have toxic shame. Women who have loving bfs, happily married women, women who show their emotions around men, who admit their flaws, who are honest about mistakes they make, who don't feel the need to be perfect, and who love themselves. You may need to find a local support group. 5.) Spend some time alone. It's not so bad, is it? 6.) Make a list of your boundaries. A list of what you won't tolerate from others. 7.) Go out with the group of women who are free of toxic shame. See their boundaries? See how they carry themselves? It's not a act. They truly feel wonderful about themselves. You can have the same feeling, but you must let go of your past routine. Be 100% honest. Show your emotions. Don't let anyone step on you. Have fun. Single guys are everywhere. In fact, I'm sick of running into them. Find one who responds to you, your emotions, everything. 8.) Rejection sucks for everyone. It's ok to feel bad if you get rejected. It's part of life. It is NOT a good reason to go back to your old routine. Guy rejects you, it sucks, ok now drop it and move on. You don't need to write a book about it called 'This is what I did wrong.' Move on.
neowulf Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 AU, while it's only been two months.. I will say this. The times when I was *really* into a girl.. I couldn't wait to show her off to my friends and family. I was proud to introduce her as my girlfriend. I suspect Carhill is right on the money. If seems as if you're attracting people who frankly don't appear to value you much. Perhaps that's a reflection of how you feel about yourself? You're a beautiful woman. Don't settle for a guy who acts like he can "take it or leave it". A healthy relationship is finding one with a balance of attraction, friendship and respect. Personally, I've made 3 months my cut off date for things. If I get to 3 months and the relationship appears to be stagnating.. I usually call things off. Relationships either grow stronger, or wearker with time.
SarahRose Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Imo your problems stem from your childhood. Children are ego centric, and they believe that if they don't recieve enough love/care, then they are 100% to blame. This leads to toxic shame, a core belief in one's defectivenes. When a person has toxic shame, they feel a deep desire to compensate for their percieved flaws. As a child, the thought process is something like "what did I do to make mom walk off and leave me here?" Or "what did I do to make dad so angry?" and "There must be something wrong with me. Mom doesn't smile at me very often. I'll have to make up for my flaws by being as perfect as possible. I'll never do ___ again, that way they won't reject me. That way they will love me." "I hide it very well in front of other people so I can be a decent, logical person." "so he will respect me and I don't have to creepily bring up small things later" "and as soon as they have my attention they ignore me" You have decided to compensate for your toxic shame by hinding your emotions. I suspect that you are choosing to intereract with men who are likely to be emotionally unavailable to you. This allows you to play out your childhood experiences. "Oh no! It's my attention that drives my parent/caretaker away! Wait, maybe it's my emotions! I'll figure this out." So long as you have toxic shame, you will go for men who don't offer you enough love and acceptance. "I just want someone that I like to like me back. I feel like I have to create the right environment for a guy to be able to do that" You will continue to come up with ways to try and compensate for your toxic shame. He doesn't love me because I didn't manipulate the environment, hide my emotions, show enough of my emotions, or give him exactly the right amount of attention. You must rid yourself of toxic shame, and then you will pick men who are likely to be emotionally available to you. So long as you're trying to hide your toxic shame, you will find yourself around men who prey on women with toxic shame. You're an easy target. Womanizers can see you a mile away. "I need to be more aggressive and assertive, but I'm lost as to how and when to do it" Dump your toxic shame and you won't feel lost, and you won't try to hide behind cooky schemes and plans to make guys like you. Here is my advice: 1.) Dump your bf. He's with you because he knows you have toxic shame. You're not fooling him, and he's bad for you. 2.) If you are friends with other people who have toxic shame, lose them. You can come back to them later. 3.) Avoid men for the time being. They clearly trigger your toxic shame. 4.) Spend time with women who don't have toxic shame. Women who have loving bfs, happily married women, women who show their emotions around men, who admit their flaws, who are honest about mistakes they make, who don't feel the need to be perfect, and who love themselves. You may need to find a local support group. 5.) Spend some time alone. It's not so bad, is it? 6.) Make a list of your boundaries. A list of what you won't tolerate from others. 7.) Go out with the group of women who are free of toxic shame. See their boundaries? See how they carry themselves? It's not a act. They truly feel wonderful about themselves. You can have the same feeling, but you must let go of your past routine. Be 100% honest. Show your emotions. Don't let anyone step on you. Have fun. Single guys are everywhere. In fact, I'm sick of running into them. Find one who responds to you, your emotions, everything. 8.) Rejection sucks for everyone. It's ok to feel bad if you get rejected. It's part of life. It is NOT a good reason to go back to your old routine. Guy rejects you, it sucks, ok now drop it and move on. You don't need to write a book about it called 'This is what I did wrong.' Move on. Best post in the thread. Get yourself some counseling to work on your childhood issues. Honey this guy is a douche and just wants to use you for sex until someone better comes along. You don't have to say or tell him anything. You are bf and gf as he says so just keep dating anyone you think you might like... and stop sleeping with guys Guys love the term exclusive. They can lock you down sexually while being on the prowl for their next conquest.
hats Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) Toxic shame? What does that even mean? AU, nothing you've posted makes me think you're incapable of being in a healthy relationship or that you need counselling. You sound like most other completely normal girls who want labels and commitments, and he sounds like most completely normal guys who just don't understand why it's so important. Sarah - They are not in a sexual relationship. Edited March 2, 2010 by hats
sagetalk Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 I thought you had posted this already, I can't remember what I said last time though. It was probably something along the lines of, "calm down you're scaring me". And if you're scaring me, then I'd imagine you'd be scaring the crap out of this guy as well. The key for you is to not focus on titles, remember, titles do not equal love (marriage is different). Just because he says you're his girlfriend does not mean he loves you anymore then he does now. This is why so many girls fall for players, because the player constantly tells them what they want to hear, even if they are not being truthful. Real men will tell you how they really feel, honestly. Look on the bright side, he could have been a jerk, lied and said you were his girlfriend just to have sex with you. Lots of guys would pull that crap. So to summarize, take it slow, and don't give him an ultimatum, please. That sounds like you're an alpha male bossing him around (not cool to guys). Focus on his affection and exclusiveness to you, not the title he gives you. If he starts bringing other girls into his life as romantic interests, ditch him.
harmfulsweetz Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 I wouldn't do the whole ultimatum thing, it won't work because it's simply pushy. Instead, I would have a straight and honest conversation about it. I don't think it's so much about the title, as understanding your place/role in his life, and his in yours. Technically, you're still single, so yeah, you can do whatever you want with whomever. It doesn't make sense to be exclusive with one person, but still be classified as single. If you're unhappy with this, speak up. It sounds like he wants a FWB situation, and is using excuses to put off the label. If a label is not a big deal, why is it a big deal if you give it a label? If it doesn't matter if you don't, it also doesn't matter if you do. Right? If he wants exclusivity with you, I can't actually see the big jump from that to gf/bf titles.
spiderowl Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 I don't think anyone responds well to ultimatums and there is no need for anything dramatic like that. Just naturally reverting to good friends status seems the best option. You both keep your friends and he will realise that your needs and values are not to be treated as 'silly'. He can disagree with them but he should also respect you. Just behave with quiet, pleasant dignity and date other men instead. Keep sex out of this until he's decided whether he wants a girlfriend or not. Exclusivity without acknowledgement is like saying "I want to know that you're unavailable to other men and that I'm not sharing you, but I don't want anyone to think that I'm unavailable." It doesn't sound fair to me.
Hot Carl Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Option 1: We can be just dating, but it wont be exclusive. If I meet someone who I like that wants my number, wants to eventually be my boyfriend and who doesn't mind changing his facebook status (there is actually a practical application to this if you are a girl who gets hit on a lot) then he gets exclusivity. If you find that you DO like me enough to graduate me to girlfriend status, I might go with you instead...but I'm not going to wait for it on your whim and not be able to see other people that could potentially be into me more than you are. Option 2: We could be really good friends. Option 3 is me graduating to girlfriend status immediately, but I don't want to force him into doing something that he isn't ready for so for practicality's sake, I'm omitting it. I'm sure he'll bring it up if/when he's interested. Thoughts? My thoughts: how exactly did you achieve this "exclusive" status anyway? You should forget option 3, because if you look at your situation closely you'll see that it's not an option at all. The bottom line is that if it was an option at all, it would be the only option. If he wanted it, you'd have it. He would be making it clear that that's what he's after. But he isn't doing that. The reason you don't have it is because he doesn't want it. And if he doesn't want it, then you're not going to have it. So no option 3. Your best option is to occupy yourself in ways that don't involve him. The ball is always in his court, and so if he wants to be part of your life, he should have no problem opting in. But if he isn't going to provide a relationship that satisfies you, then you should think twice about whether you allow him to opt in. You should reduce your "together" time to a simple question of whether it amuses you to have him around, and whether you can have him around with no yearning for more on your own part. Short term amusement is all he's offering and all you should expect.
mem11363 Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 I am a male. And I am all about relationship symmetry - being truly fair to each other. Works well in my 20+ year marriage so it should work for you. He might be "nice" and "polite" and even "generous" - however he is not a really good guy because: - he wants YOU to be exclusive with him but - does not want him to be exclusive with you If he truly is dumb enough to not understand WHY you want him to describe you has his GF in an exclusive relationship than you should dump him for being - ummm - slow. I don't think he is that slow. I think he wants it both ways. WORSE is he doesn't respect your intelligence enough to know better than to ask for this. You only get treated like a doormat if you let it happen. As for people: - a really good guy doesn't even try to take advantage of you - an average guy trys but laughs and stops when you call him on it - a predator plays dumb and tries to manipulate the situation so you look bad when you stick up for yourself Okay, I am a nice person but I am no doormat (or maybe I am...but I'm on the road to recovery I promise...). I am with someone who wants to be exclusive with me, but will not refer to me as his girlfriend and refuses to change his facebook status because he thinks it's dumb...even though I brought it up. I let my dad know about this, and he was more confused than I was. "Exclusive but you're not boyfriend and girlfriend...what on Earth? Why the Hell are you doing this? Do you think of yourself as so low as to...etc... So Loveshack, I propose an ultimatum. Believe it or not, this guy is actually a really good guy but seems to have some morals and comforts that are slightly different than mine. I'm sure that having to tell my dad (to his shame) that I will put up with a guy who doesn't want to commit is more embarrassing than him having to tell someone that I'm his girlfriend. Here it goes: Option 1: We can be just dating, but it wont be exclusive. If I meet someone who I like that wants my number, wants to eventually be my boyfriend and who doesn't mind changing his facebook status (there is actually a practical application to this if you are a girl who gets hit on a lot) then he gets exclusivity. If you find that you DO like me enough to graduate me to girlfriend status, I might go with you instead...but I'm not going to wait for it on your whim and not be able to see other people that could potentially be into me more than you are. Option 2: We could be really good friends. Option 3 is me graduating to girlfriend status immediately, but I don't want to force him into doing something that he isn't ready for so for practicality's sake, I'm omitting it. I'm sure he'll bring it up if/when he's interested. Thoughts?
Pink Cupcakes Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Don't sleep with this guy until he has posted he is in a relationship with you on Facebook and left it up forat least a month, as well as refers to you as his girlfriend. Then you know he is really invested and really means it. Do this even if you have already been intimate. He has to earn this privelege to be intimate. Don't tell him this as an ultimatim, just don't sleep with him. He'll get the picture.
Barky Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 He'll get the picture. He'll get the picture and dump her
Lindarose84 Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 While I wouldn't word it as giving him an ultimatum (no one likes those and it will most likely blow up in your face), I think you should be forthcoming with your feelings about the girlfriend title. While to some it means nothing, to others it means a certain level of commitment. Personally, I never knew there was a difference between bf/gf and exclusivity but I guess that's society's way of coming up with more ways to satisfy commitmentphobes. Awesome, you seem like a beautiful woman both inside and out- dude should be shouting from the rooftops that you're his girlfriend. Don't bend your beliefs to fit his needs. That's not a relationship it's a dictatorship. He shouldn't be dictating how fast or slow the relationship should move, or what titles you should have. He's already brainwashed you into the inane belief that being a gf is a hop skip and a jump away from being a fiancee. Is this guy for real? I've been with my bf for about three months now. Two weeks after we went exclusive/became bf/gf I met his family. When I met them, they seemed like they knew more about me than I did. His friends are the same way. He talks about me to no end apparently. THAT is what a guy should do when he is interested in a woman. He should be proud to call you his gf.
Pink Cupcakes Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 (edited) He'll get the picture and dump her Good riddance in that case. He should not be getting the benefits of her boyfriend if he is declaring outright that he is NOT her boyfriend. Edited March 3, 2010 by Pink Cupcakes
meerkat stew Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Don't "say" anything and surely don't give any ultimatums, just start cultivating other options and dates. Don't put this in his face, but don't hide it. He will either come around or he won't, either way you will have your answer. Who knows, you might even meet someone who is more compatible with your ideas of a relationship.
Author Awesome Username Posted March 3, 2010 Author Posted March 3, 2010 Thank you SO much for your replies, advice and encouragement you guys. You have no idea how much I have needed you all in the last few days, and the fact that so many of you have responded to me with such wonderful advice feels like a gift from God. I know that sounds insane, but the solace I have found in your replies had really put me at ease THAT much. I wrote him a letter explaining everything. He works really late so I don't want to call him at wee hours in the morning, and I also don't want to call right before work. Texting is cheesy and disrespectful when it comes to this, so I wrote him a nice, direct letter explaining that we can keep everything exactly where it is at if we take a step back and not be exclusive. I think it was rather eloquent, and put everything on the table without being overly pushy or accusatory. I don't want to post it on here, because it is private but it comes off very respectfully. I do not know what his response will be, but I will let you all know the gist of it when I receive it.. I can't believe the relief I feel right now! This is rad! Even if he just wants to be friends, I will be happy. I am elated that I have found such a good way to stand up for myself. Thank you all again for helping me look before I lept. <3 This combined with the news that Caliguy is getting better is making this night a cheery one!
Star Gazer Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 changing his facebook status (there is actually a practical application to this if you are a girl who gets hit on a lot) You can change YOUR status without tagging him as your BF. Quite honestly, it sounds like you just want a BF... not that you want HIM to be your BF.
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