make me believe Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Hmm, I was going to say he wants the benefits of having a gf but not the responsiblity... but if he's claiming you two are "exclusive" then whats the difference?? How can you be "exclusive" if he is still technically "single"? That makes no sense. I wouldn't settle for this wishy-washy stuff either. It seems like he wants to keep his options open.
Author Awesome Username Posted March 2, 2010 Author Posted March 2, 2010 Marriage is far more than a piece of paper. I've got the bankrupsty & child support receipts to prove that. It must just be me. I personally could care less about any "official status" of any of my friends or the women they were with since as far back as I can remember. he's with her, she's with him, how complicated is that? I just don't get it. That's all. It's only been 2 months. How long before you give the ultimatum of Fiance'? I'll bet that is how He's looking at it. If you think he is keeping his options open then I can see where you are coming. Oh man, I didn't see it from a "How long until you're a fiance" perspective. Years years years years yearssssszzzzzz!!!!!!!!! I am not wanting to be a fiance any time soon! Girlfriend is simply WAY lower on the totem pole than fiance to me...maybe to him, that might not be the case. If he asked me to be his fiance this year I would have a heart attack.
Tnerforireyeh Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 I don't understand why women ever think it's ok to give ultimatums (ultimata?) If it's gotten to that point, you've already failed. "Do XYZ or else" doesn't strengthen a relationship, ever. He might do it, but he will resent it and it will go in the "resentment" folder in his head to be pulled out for future use. Women know exactly what I'm talking about
Author Awesome Username Posted March 2, 2010 Author Posted March 2, 2010 Oh dang, I do remember him mentioning that "girlfriend" was right before "Fiance." Arrgh, what kind of strange logic is that?! If I'm exclusive but not a girlfriend, I'm an idiot and my family and friends think I'm an idiot and being used. If I'm a girlfriend, I'm on the fast lane to becoming a fiance (I would die). There is simply no peace of mind!
carhill Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Topically, unless the OP has been sleeping with her erstwhile BF since the beginning and they are talking about moving in together, two months is way too early for ultimatums regarding labels.
threebyfate Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 You: Y'know what? I've thought about this exclusive thing and it's not working for me. It doesn't feel right to be exclusive and yet, not be in a relationship, more friends with benefits. I care about you. I hope you care about me. What are your thoughts? Him: You know my feelings about it tantamount to saying "ILY" and right now, it's too soon. Now fill in your response, AU, after his response. What will you say?
Author Awesome Username Posted March 2, 2010 Author Posted March 2, 2010 I'm gonna put all of this advice into an advice consolidating machine.... ...okay, so what I have is that it's way early in a relationship (especially this casual of one) to be throwing ultimatums around like a nag. If I push him, he will resent it and/or go with it and make marriage plans soon after. Either way, if I rush this I lose. If I put the brakes on this relationship and slow things down to the point that we're just casually (non-exclusively) dating, we will get to know each other better. This would make me happier, especially considering that we haven't been on a long one-on-one date yet (It's always with other people). Okay, I've changed my approach. I actually want this to be less serious. If he says no and that we should just be friends, that's fine too. He really is a wonderful guy, and no matter what I don't want to lose him as a friend.
Author Awesome Username Posted March 2, 2010 Author Posted March 2, 2010 You: Y'know what? I've thought about this exclusive thing and it's not working for me. It doesn't feel right to be exclusive and yet, not be in a relationship, more friends with benefits. I care about you. I hope you care about me. What are your thoughts? Him: You know my feelings about it tantamount to saying "ILY" and right now, it's too soon. Now fill in your response, AU, after his response. What will you say? Ooh ooh, I love this game! "I agree it's too soon, and we also should get to know each other aside from a bar or work. I think we should be more casual and friendly than exclusive at this point, and focus on getting to know each other as people rather than labels." If he wants to just be friends, that's okay too.
nddb Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Why not just tell him this? Be honest with him, tell him exactly how you feel and why. If he does not respect that then I think he is not in the relationship for the right reasons and you should move on This is the right way to do it. No ultimatums. If he cares for you enough to see that this is important for you, and if he respects your feelings, he will take the steps to be exclusive. If he continues to feed you the BS line, time to cut your losses. As you put it, you wouldn't have lost much if this is the person he turns out to be.
spookie Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 My relationship has the same definition as yours (exclusive but not "in a relationship"), and I think you're completely over-reacting. Exclusive means you are not seeing or sleeping with other people. In other words, you're giving you a fair shot. In a relationship implies a level of commitment that some people are not comfrotable with after just a few months. It means you have shared goals, and are committed to working on staying together. I'm with your bf that it's akin to saying I love you. Why would you say "I am committed to you through thick and thin" if you weren't in love? Personally, having been through some crap that's made it hard for me to trust people, and subsequently having been single for two years, I am fine with just dating my guy exclusively for a while, without the label of "gf". Even though we see each other a couple of times per week, and it's been about 3 months, I feel we're still in the getting to know each other phase, and I'm still learning to trust him. I have faith that if we're meant to be together, we will.
Tnerforireyeh Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 What happened to the days when women could influence men's behavior without giving ultimatums but through subtle wiles?
threebyfate Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Ooh ooh, I love this game! "I agree it's too soon, and we also should get to know each other aside from a bar or work. I think we should be more casual and friendly than exclusive at this point, and focus on getting to know each other as people rather than labels." If he wants to just be friends, that's okay too. As long as you're fully prepared to just be friend's, that's fine. But I do have to question why people view a relationship like it's a marriage proposal. You're not committing for life and if a simple relationship is scaring you, there's a phobia going on. It all starts with dating. You find someone who does it for you and then you enter a relationship. You learn more and more about them. Sometimes, it turns into something more serious, like a marriage proposal. Other times, relationships end. That's the way it should be, rather than assuming that each relationship you enter, will last forever. How can it last forever, if you barely know someone?
carhill Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 TBH, 'wiles' worked much better back in the days when good men sincerely respected and honored women they chose to be their wives (or girlfriends). Today, not so much. Negative experiences, many of them, have changed that perspective to a more cynical and non-committal one. I'm still wanting to better understand the crush by the OP I linked to above wrt this ongoing relationship and 'ultimatum'. Do you want to find out where you stand so, if no joy, you can pursue this crush which has been on your mind? What's going on?
Tnerforireyeh Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 TBH, 'wiles' worked much better back in the days when good men sincerely respected and honored women they chose to be their wives (or girlfriends). Today, not so much. Negative experiences, many of them, have changed that perspective to a more cynical and non-committal one. Good point, although I have to say I really enjoy the way the dating world is now. It dovetails nicely with what I'm looking for. Far more freedom for singles than any time in history, IMHO.
Author Awesome Username Posted March 2, 2010 Author Posted March 2, 2010 My relationship has the same definition as yours (exclusive but not "in a relationship"), and I think you're completely over-reacting. Exclusive means you are not seeing or sleeping with other people. In other words, you're giving you a fair shot. In a relationship implies a level of commitment that some people are not comfrotable with after just a few months. It means you have shared goals, and are committed to working on staying together. I'm with your bf that it's akin to saying I love you. Why would you say "I am committed to you through thick and thin" if you weren't in love? Personally, having been through some crap that's made it hard for me to trust people, and subsequently having been single for two years, I am fine with just dating my guy exclusively for a while, without the label of "gf". Even though we see each other a couple of times per week, and it's been about 3 months, I feel we're still in the getting to know each other phase, and I'm still learning to trust him. I have faith that if we're meant to be together, we will. The last part is what I don't get though...I know this is looking far ahead in the future, but why would he want to commit to me after he knows that I'm not going to get physically close with anyone else? There was no reason to. I honestly don't believe that a man getting to know a woman will try to get to know her and get closer to her if it brings him nothing...especially if he has gone all the way with her physically (Which I have not done...I will not do that unless I am committed to someone and surprisingly enough, he said that he wouldn't either). I have more faith that what I do in the beginning of the relationship will make or break it, and also will protect me from being taken advantage of or abused. I am so scared of being ridiculed and $%^%ed over.
carhill Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Good point, although I have to say I really enjoy the way the dating world is now. It dovetails nicely with what I'm looking for. Far more freedom for singles than any time in history, IMHO.IDK, having dated women 20-25 years ago, it seems that such 'freedom' has been around for a long while, even back into the 60's and 70's. Once BC became widely available, women, my stbx being one great example, were out enjoying their freedom without seeming care. Hey, good on 'em. I think that lesson would be a good one for the OP. Forget about labels, monogamy and obligation. It's a path worth exploring. Enjoy.
txsilkysmoothe Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 I'm still wanting to better understand the crush by the OP I linked to above wrt this ongoing relationship and 'ultimatum'. Do you want to find out where you stand so, if no joy, you can pursue this crush which has been on your mind? What's going on? I think it's the same guy, Carhill. Not sure why she called him a crush. OP, how about doing nothing! You've only been exclusive for a week. It seems for him to go from exclusive to gf/bf may take a little longer, maybe two weeks or a month? It doesn't sound like an unreasonable amout of time if everything else in the relationship is working well.
Kamille Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Are you doubting yourself? You are looking for some kind of certainty. Certainty for what? That you're not wasting your time? (if so, do you feel you're wasting your time?) Are you worried the undefined status means he will never commit to you? Do you need some reassurance if you are going to continue to grow in this relationship? I ask these questions because bf and I established exclusivity before we established bf-gf. I don't remember the timeline (I wasn't worried about it because I was just really enjoying getting to know this man and was getting plenty of reassurance that we were moving along), but there was probably at least a two week lag between exclusivity and bf-gf. It's only been two months. Why are you struggling to live in the moment and let the relationship follow it's own flow? Do you doubt your own capacity to make the best decisions for yourself? Or has he given you enough signs for you to believe he will never commit?
Author Awesome Username Posted March 2, 2010 Author Posted March 2, 2010 TBH, 'wiles' worked much better back in the days when good men sincerely respected and honored women they chose to be their wives (or girlfriends). Today, not so much. Negative experiences, many of them, have changed that perspective to a more cynical and non-committal one. I'm still wanting to better understand the crush by the OP I linked to above wrt this ongoing relationship and 'ultimatum'. Do you want to find out where you stand so, if no joy, you can pursue this crush which has been on your mind? What's going on? Carhill, I just want someone that I like to like me back. I feel like I have to create the right environment for a guy to be able to do that, and part of it is not being easily led and tossed aside. Some girls out there have guys that get ahold of them every day or every other day, and are proud to show them off and talk about them to other people. Mine are sweet and giving at first, and as soon as they have my attention they ignore me...like I've already been won and that's what it's about. I need to be more aggressive and assertive, but I'm lost as to how and when to do it (therefore making an ultimatum thread...lol!). I am a very emotional person but I hide it very well in front of other people so I can be a decent, logical person. If I'm suddenly supposed to show them in real time to a guy so he will respect me and I don't have to creepily bring up small things later...I honestly don't know what I'm supposed to do.
Kamille Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 I need to be more aggressive and assertive, but I'm lost as to how and when to do it (therefore making an ultimatum thread...lol!). I am a very emotional person but I hide it very well in front of other people so I can be a decent, logical person. Is there something so wrong with your emotions that they must be repressed at all times?
threebyfate Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Carhill, I just want someone that I like to like me back. I feel like I have to create the right environment for a guy to be able to do that, and part of it is not being easily led and tossed aside. Some girls out there have guys that get ahold of them every day or every other day, and are proud to show them off and talk about them to other people. Mine are sweet and giving at first, and as soon as they have my attention they ignore me...like I've already been won and that's what it's about. I need to be more aggressive and assertive, but I'm lost as to how and when to do it (therefore making an ultimatum thread...lol!). I am a very emotional person but I hide it very well in front of other people so I can be a decent, logical person. If I'm suddenly supposed to show them in real time to a guy so he will respect me and I don't have to creepily bring up small things later...I honestly don't know what I'm supposed to do.YOU teach people how to treat you. If you're being taken advantage of, time and again, you're going to have learn to assert your needs. While "cool chick" is encouraged by certain men on LS, it's usually agenda-based encouragement, in that "cool chick" CAN and WILL be taken advantage of.
carhill Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 To me, it's really simple. TBF actually gave it a terminology when she opined that my people-picker was impaired (paraphrasing). You have the right idea. Your desires are healthy. You're just picking inappropriate people to walk that path with. I've been watching this more carefully as I transition to dating and can now clearly see it when the old habits creep in. Clarity, even if a bit painful, is instructive. Since you have no shortage of suitors, be selective and take your time. Value yourself and the happiness you have to share. You can show your assertiveness by moving on from people you do not find to be compatible and proactively working with and investing in those whom you do find compatible. Hope it works out for you
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