klondike Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 I'm definitely not the type of person who likes to post personal stuff on forums (or anywhere on the net for that matter). I'm not the type to go digging for hug-fest sympathy on the internet either. Apparently that isn't going to stop me. What I am is a man with something to say. The reason I'm saying it here is because I'd like some feedback (even anonymous internet feedback), otherwise this would be relegated to a private journal entry or something. I would hope that I wouldn't offend anyone with what I have to say, but I might, and if I do I'm sorry - please put me on your list of "bitter people to ignore". This may be long. Here goes. After the first time I got stomped on by a woman, I was hurt a lot. After a few times I was numb. After many times, I'm just bitter. It's not that I think I'm the only one to go through something like this, in fact my point is that I'm not. Specifically, I'm referring to men who give and give to a woman they care about, and women that take advantage of that. There are a lot of us. Keep in mind that I know the gender roles in this message can be reversed. I have no doubt in my mind that there are women who give and give and are taken advantage of, and I'm no misogynist or sexist (at least on an average evening) but tonight I'm pissed at a specific subset of women and, right or wrong, I'm going to rant about it. Hopefully the reason becomes clear. There is a certain type of man in this world that really give their all for their friends and lovers. These are the men that would not only take a proverbial bullet for someone they care about, but would take a literal one. I've known just a few. I count myself among them (I'm not sure if that counts as bragging or self-deprecation...). In my experience there seem to be an endless supply of women that are happy to take advantage of these men. I (as many have) have been taught from an early age that if I treat my girlfriend well, am caring, respectful, loyal, never cheating, etc. that she is going to respond in kind and value those traits. In my experience this is very seldom the case. A few of the very close friends I have are women. I've heard a lot about what they expect in a man. Besides the widely varying views on what is physically or sexually attractive, traits like friendship, openness, a caring demeanor, loyalty, etc (the obvious ones) always seem to top the list. So then, I ask, why is it that men who give and give always seem to end up with people who will never appreciate their efforts? I have always been supportive through the rough times of women that I've been with (and some of those times have been REALLY damn rough, believe me), I've been patient, I've helped build their confidence back up, and helped them be positive, and always been a shoulder to cry on in the most literal sense. They always claim how much they love me, how indispensable and valuable I am to them. In the end, when all is said and done, in my experience, if I ever put in this kind of effort for a woman I can pretty much expect her to take advantage of it, and then leave the moment the situation starts looking better. It always comes down to the same thing, "I don't want to be with you, but I really want you as a friend." I do not want to be friends with these girls. Why would I? I've tried it before, and all that happens is that they continue to sap the same support from me and expect me to stick around and put up with it, but they don't want the responsibility of being in a relationship. They say, "I have a lot to figure out, I just want to be single for a while." as if I don't know that's bull****. Predictably, they've always got some idiot who treats them terribly that they just can not ****ing wait to jump into a relationship with. This girl always seems like a dream come true. She seems honest, we've got a lot in common, etc. It's great to go out with her. I'm always smiling when I'm with her. She tells me she loves me and she seems to respect me in the beginning. I don't ask a lot, and she meets my short list of requirements (or seems to) and then somewhere down the line she suddenly loses interest (it's ALWAYS sudden, as in three nights or a week after she's practically writing me poetry) she's ready to do the "just friends" thing. It's almost as if these women can sniff out the guys that really do give a damn in the beginning, get into a relationship with them, and then slide on out and go on their way once they've taken a piece of him. I'm a young guy. I have a hell of a lot of life ahead of me. To be honest, at this point, I'm not sure I want to give another woman a piece of me. Of all the guys who really just want sex and have no other use for a woman, I believe there are a percentage who used to believe they would give anything, take care of a woman, treat her the right way, just for her to wake up next to him with a pretty smile or bring him up when he's having a bad day. Because honestly all I wanted in the beginning was a little companionship, a little loyalty, and a little sex. I don't ask a lot from a woman. I don't need her to baby my ego, clean my house, put up with jealousy, submit to my superior male intellect or kiss my ass. Just companionship, loyalty, and sex. Don't give me lies. Don't cheat on me. Do give me a listening ear. Do respect me, my thoughts and feelings. I'm affectionate, be affectionate back. Perhaps this is the reason I'm never doing the dumping (except when I've been cheated on). Usually whatever the situation is I can take the ups with the downs, and I'm a really happy person. I'm very, very rarely depressed or sad at all. I just don't ask for much, I'm an easygoing guy. Compared the the sidelong lists of "What a boyfriend should always do for his girlfriend." I don't ask for a lot. I really don't. In return I would have done just about anything for her. I would have been that guy I've heard a lot of women (and thousands of woman TV characters...) wax poetic about never being able to find. In fact, so many times I have been that guy. I've been told I was "that guy". I intentionally put in the hard work and time to be a great boyfriend. I do give a damn, and it is important to me. I respect a woman, I have never cheated in my life, I am not emotionally distant, I am intelligent, honest, decent and loving. All I hear about is how rare these qualities supposedly are. Hell, from what I've been told I do a pretty damn good job during sex too. Well apparently either they're not enough to offer, or I'm asking too much. One or the other. I'm not really a looker I suppose, but it hasn't stopped women from being interested so far. At this point, reducing every relationship with a woman to a one night stand from now on seems like a pretty damn good idea, I must say. Anything more than that is risking letting yet another woman take yet another chunk out of me, and where there was once SO much, there isn't much left. And coming to this conclusion at a relatively young age is a bitch, and probably all it would have taken to restore my faith is one girl who has the respect to not use me and then try to walk all over me. Hell, if even one of them had dumped me under honest pretenses (i.e. I had done something wrong or they just didn't feel like it was going anywhere) it would have been ok. So far, it's all been lies, cheating, leaving me for some guy they met, etc. I.E. Bull****. I don't know if the above male qualities are rare, and I don't know if they're really what women care to see in a guy. What I do know is that there's now one more man who has learned better than to risk that kind of vulnerability towards a woman. Because ironically for guys like me that give and give and give, there's always someone who can never get enough. There's a real reason why the chivalrous man is dead, and I think I'm getting pretty close to figuring out what it is. I should add that I am open to the possibility that maybe I am not a great guy at all (as in I think I'm a lot better of a boyfriend than I actually am) and that's why I get treated like ****, but I've never been told that's the case so I'm going with my gut on this one. And for those of you who say there's a woman out there who will be respectful and true, I'm sure there is. I really am. Unfortunately I don't think I can put up with any more heartbreak and BS on the quest to find her. I'm persistent, but not stupid, and if I didn't think I could trust the girls I've been with, I never would have gotten into a relationship in the first place. There is no difference between someone you can trust and someone you only think you can trust until they betray you. The key to being a guy who would do anything for a friend or family member or someone they love is to either get rid of people that take advantage of you, or get used to people who take advantage of you. I'm sleepy. Comments, criticisms, insults? Any women that get the same treatment? Eh? Eh?
Leia Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 You kind of spelled "what's up?" wrongly. Just sayin'. Anywho, you sound like a decent guy. Hang in there. You'll find someone great
AgeOfUninnocence Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 I don't think you sound like a bad guy at all. You seem like you really care about your relationships and you put it a lot into them to make them work, and your girls just don't care. I'm in the same position with my ex bf: I put so much more effort into the relationship, buying gifts (not just on special occasions), buying tickets to visit his college, making sure I was able to talk every night, remembering every anniversary, etc. And it just doesn't seem like he appreciated it at all, which is strange since no one had ever acted this way to him before. I feel like just maybe, behaving toward our exes in this loving and devoted manner made them think so highly of themselves, and gave them a confidence boost that they could find someone "better"? I'm just going through my first love breakup, so unfortunately I can't offer too much advice since I'm just figuring it all out myself. But it's bound to get better. At least we know for now it can't get any worse.
Rearden Metal Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 Dude you sound like a great guy. Unfortunately, you're young and so are the girls you've been dating. The same thing that makes them fun and energetic is the thing that makes them ultimately play you. It's a shame, really, but it's very very common with the younger 21-27 girls these days. Keep doing your thing, just protect yourself a bit more. You can still be loyal and caring and respectful without letting them bite a hole in you. Make them work to gain YOUR respect and trust. And if you see warning signs, BAIL. Just cut it off and tell them you've seen it all before, best of luck, yada yada and walk away.
sugarmomma Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) I am a very giving person too and before I become victimized in relationships I have had to learn when the time comes to stop giving. I operate according to the Law of Reciprocity that means I only give what I receive in relationships. If you are giving more than you are getting you are simply setting yourself up to be victimized. I'm sure you know when someone is totally into you and reciprocating your attention and affections. When you are not getting what you give, you have to abort the mission or get screwed. It takes courage to stop giving especially when you have invested a lot. learning to enforce this boundary can be emotionally priceless and will save you a lot of heartache. I used to think that if I gave more they would see my love and give more. NO. Takers don't do that. You have to learn when to stop giving or you will become a victim. And we all know in relationships there are no victims, only volunteers. Edited March 2, 2010 by sugarmomma
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