Taramere Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 1. Taramere, troggleputty and I are not the same, I've been much too busy these last several days to post on LS, and wouldn't do it under another account name anyway. Get used to mistaking lots of men for me, because we are out there, we are waking up to the massive political-gender polarizations created and engineered by the American left, and more and more utilized by the right, we are getting fed up with it, and we are going to do something about it. What is there for you to do other than live the life you want to live and refrain from having a coronary if others choose something different? Not every person is a puppet of political forces purely because the choices they make differ from the ones you would make.
donnamaybe Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 I couldn't understand your second sentence. You said you wanted the man to pay and equality. You cannot have both. Either you want the man to pay or you contribute equally. It's really not that complicated. If you want both, it's hypocritical. And then spin the conversation in dizzying circles that even an acrobat couldn't follow. Homer, I feel you and I think quite a bit alike.
meerkat stew Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Not every person is a puppet of political forces purely because the choices they make differ from the ones you would make. "Every person" does not make law. Mass populations do, and despite outliers, the effects of gender polarizing propaganda in the media, universities and public discourse, and of political manipulation are visible in bell curves, polls and most of all in the extreme social expenses and consequences that we suffer.
Maria_la_Guera Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 It's pretty impossible to have a large family these days without having two people work and earn enough money to support the kids, especially if you DON'T want them to end up just smoking pot but want to put them through college. Unless you find a rich husband. Most women don't and most still want kids. To this end it makes sense to get both education and children, even if one has to wait until later, so as to not lose out at the competitive job market. I don't think there's ever been anything uncool about kids, it's just that women take responsibility for themselves and their children and these days it's best done by having a job. Apart from that, just staying at home is pretty boring for anyone. If it wasn't, more men would be doing it.
Maria_la_Guera Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 And to bring this back to the original topic: I don't think that there were any more "real men" before as there are now, if "real men" mean men that women would like to marry or be with. It's just that now we don't have to settle for bad marriages, which I'm really happy about. Now, if I marry, it is because I like the guy and because he's generally a good person and a good match to me. Surely that is a more healthy attitude than having to marry just some random guy because you need someone to pay the bills.
meerkat stew Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 What is there for you to do other than live the life you want to live and refrain from having a coronary if others choose something different? Men, real men, unlike other people, don't have "coronaries" or hissy fits when faced with social injustice, we don't wave placards, unless by that you mean that in our male efforts to change the world, to secure long life, wealth and rights for all members of society, we often die in the process. No, men shed blood and effect change, we do it directly and forcefully, not through propaganda and the political techniques of corrupt bureaucrats and cowards, and that is the core of why you or any person alive in the West, male or female, has any rights at all that aren't granted by a tiny aristocracy or monarchy. Some men fought, and some men died for them. Remember that. This coming fight will be fought and quickly won, by real men, without bloodshed (or much of it) over the next thirty years as enough men and women wake up to the vast failure of quasi socialist government, and as enough women wake up to the fact that appeals to "women's rights" or "protecting the children" are transparent veneers on more grasping government policy. It's already happening, and as so much of history is, is entirely predictable. Big, deceptive socialist government is a bad investment. It's too late for much of the world, particularly in Europe, destined to be a vacation spot backwater inconsequential in world affairs, where the disease has metastisized so thoroughly, not the U.S. though. And interestingly enough, not in the East, even China, where political systems are worn and shed pragmatically in stages. If that sounds preachy like Jack Nicholson's speech from "A Few Good Men"... good, it is intended to.
homersheineken Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 And then spin the conversation in dizzying circles that even an acrobat couldn't follow. Homer, I feel you and I think quite a bit alike. I know right From your posts, I think we do think alike Who is your avatar, btw?
Jersey Shortie Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 So JS would you be willing to make a man feel like a man if he is willing to be a gentlement? Chivalry works both ways and I think many men's frustrations stem from the fact that there are laundry lists of what men are supposed to do for women but women aren't expected to give anything. Also cooking a nice meal is not just a female thing. I cook for my wife all the time because I know how to do good things in the kitchen. Absolutely I do and would! That's kind of what I am talking about. Giving and receiving. I like doing it when I know it's appreciated and recipocated even more. I just don't think those things always match tit for tat. And I do realize cooking a nice meal isn't just a female thing. It was just an example. Actually, I think one of the best dates is cooking a meal together.
Woggle Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Absolutely I do and would! That's kind of what I am talking about. Giving and receiving. I like doing it when I know it's appreciated and recipocated even more. I just don't think those things always match tit for tat. And I do realize cooking a nice meal isn't just a female thing. It was just an example. Actually, I think one of the best dates is cooking a meal together. I can agree with that. I think what many men get fed up with is the pampered princess mentality some women display these days. I don't mind sharing and giving with a woman but there have been times where I felt I was being used and I truly resent that. I hate being used by other men like that actually.
Jersey Shortie Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 And you think women don't get fed up with king mentality that some men display these days? I've felt used before as well. But not for money. For sex. Do men have as strong feelings about women used for sex as they do not wanting to be used for money? Usually men cheer each other on to use women for sex. And no offense, but sometimes men pick women based on their looks first and put up with alot of crap for it. Then get bitter when the women aren't all sweet.
calizaggy Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 And you think women don't get fed up with king mentality that some men display these days? I've felt used before as well. But not for money. For sex. Do men have as strong feelings about women used for sex as they do not wanting to be used for money? Usually men cheer each other on to use women for sex. And no offense, but sometimes men pick women based on their looks first and put up with alot of crap for it. Then get bitter when the women aren't all sweet. How can you be used for sex? Isn't that 2 people having sex together? If you are having sex before a man has proven himself, or before you really know his feelings about you, well that's your own fault. You can't give a man sex then think you own him..
Woggle Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 How can you be used for sex? Isn't that 2 people having sex together? If you are having sex before a man has proven himself, or before you really know his feelings about you, well that's your own fault. You can't give a man sex then think you own him.. Also women chase after these men you use them. The kind of men women complain about are the ones who have the best luck with women. On one hand they claim to be sexually liberated than on the other they are poor innocent victims being used by men. I do agree that too many men are willing to kiss a woman's butt just because she is attractive. That is not me but I know many men that do.
Taramere Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Men, real men, unlike other people, don't have "coronaries" or hissy fits when faced with social injustice, we don't wave placards, unless by that you mean that in our male efforts to change the world, to secure long life, wealth and rights for all members of society, we often die in the process. No, men shed blood and effect change, we do it directly and forcefully, not through propaganda and the political techniques of corrupt bureaucrats and cowards, and that is the core of why you or any person alive in the West, male or female, has any rights at all that aren't granted by a tiny aristocracy or monarchy. Some men fought, and some men died for them. Remember that. This coming fight will be fought and quickly won, by real men, without bloodshed (or much of it) over the next thirty years as enough men and women wake up to the vast failure of quasi socialist government, and as enough women wake up to the fact that appeals to "women's rights" or "protecting the children" are transparent veneers on more grasping government policy. It's already happening, and as so much of history is, is entirely predictable. Big, deceptive socialist government is a bad investment. It's too late for much of the world, particularly in Europe, destined to be a vacation spot backwater inconsequential in world affairs, where the disease has metastisized so thoroughly, not the U.S. though. And interestingly enough, not in the East, even China, where political systems are worn and shed pragmatically in stages. If that sounds preachy like Jack Nicholson's speech from "A Few Good Men"... good, it is intended to. No, I can't say I see a resemblance between you and Jack Nicholson. It just sounds like the rant of an Internet warrior who fantasises about gaining control over governments and other people's lives in an effort to bring some kind of meaning to his own life.
calizaggy Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Ladies, How would you feel about about a "movement" that put down females, in the past and present? Instead of teaching that men and women are natural counterparts that belong together, this movement teaches how men should be indepedendent of women. What if in colleges and universities it would be popular to distort history by stating some facts, but purposely leaving out the context in which they occured to make women seem "bad", and "controlling"? The movement might say things like "Men died and still die many years earlier, men did the back breaking and dangerous jobs while women sat home and played with babies, men died in wars to protect women" etc etc. Then this movement wants to change the role of men and says women should now take half the hard jobs, die equally in war, provide for men, and now men should stay home with babies while women support them, under the umbrella of "Turning the tables to now be 'equal'".. What if millions of men bought into this, but men still wanted to keep the "good parts" of the old fashioned ways.. Men still expect women to cook and clean at home, BUT no longer view women as someone they should provide for. Actually men are taught to have disdain for women. The more I think of it, feminism is a sick movement that is 100% unnatural..Men and women are natural allies and counterparts, but feminism must make men out to be women's enemies to take hold. It is social engineering at it's worst, and in the end men and women will suffer, while banks, govt, and corporations will profit.
meerkat stew Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 No, I can't say I see a resemblance between you and Jack Nicholson. It just sounds like the rant of an Internet warrior who fantasises about gaining control over governments and other people's lives in an effort to bring some kind of meaning to his own life. And the typical insults from you, reflective of your posting style here in several posts I've seen, specifically in asserting that I lead a hollow, meaningless existence, rather than I believe strongly in something and intend to act as such. That's fine, you know nothing of me and to what extent I wage my daily war (or don't) in the real world. I know nothing of you, so will refrain from personal insults.
lino Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Also women chase after these men you use them. The kind of men women complain about are the ones who have the best luck with women. On one hand they claim to be sexually liberated than on the other they are poor innocent victims being used by men. Yep. They'll say whatever they can to twist the argument in their favour... All just a big load of sh*t really!
blue.iris Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 No, feminism didn't kill off real men. Fox news channel on the other hand... (kidding) I think what you're describing as feminism is actually only a small portion of feminism as a whole (you're thinking of radical feminism). But anyway, what is a real man? A lumberjack? Truckdriver? or a Wall Street Investment Banker? Doctor? A lot of times, people from different educational backgrounds/socioeconomic classes define things/events differently. There's no one definition for 'real man,' he's not your classic Clint Eastwood cowboy.
Barky Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 I have yet to see anything but emotional diatribes against feminism here, or anywhere. Mostly by "traditional" men who want stereotyped gender roles. Not sure why ANYBODY would want stereotyped gender roles. Seems plain to me that lots of men are living in the past. It's just like those anti-porn threads by women. Doesn't matter what any of us wants, it's here to stay and we get to make the best of it, or b*tch about it constantly. Why do so many people come here to b*tch?
meerkat stew Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 I think what you're describing as feminism is actually only a small portion of feminism as a whole (you're thinking of radical feminism). But anyway, what is a real man? A lumberjack? Truckdriver? or a Wall Street Investment Banker? Doctor? A lot of times, people from different educational backgrounds/socioeconomic classes define things/events differently. There's no one definition for 'real man,' he's not your classic Clint Eastwood cowboy. Thing is that there is no definitive line between a basic conceptual kind of feminism and the more radical alternative, many women take from both types as it suits them in the moment. When a woman treats a man badly, she may just as well rationalize that it is men's due for hundreds of years of supposed oppression as opposed to acknowledging her bad treatment for what it is. In almost the same breath, she may claim that she is a "good" feminist because she doesn't hate men. There is no "good" feminism nor "bad" feminism. The whole concept is a rotten lie built on a historically bogus foundation. What is real is the principle that all people should be equal under the law and have equal rights, and this sentiment can be expressed more accurately by the non-polarizing terms "civil rights" or "humanism" than it it is by the gender polarizing term "feminism."
blue.iris Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Thing is that there is no definitive line between a basic conceptual kind of feminism and the more radical alternative, many women take from both types as it suits them in the moment. When a woman treats a man badly, she may just as well rationalize that it is men's due for hundreds of years of supposed oppression as opposed to acknowledging her bad treatment for what it is. In almost the same breath, she may claim that she is a "good" feminist because she doesn't hate men. There is no "good" feminism nor "bad" feminism. The whole concept is a rotten lie built on a historically bogus foundation. What is real is the principle that all people should be equal under the law and have equal rights, and this sentiment can be expressed more accurately by the non-polarizing terms "civil rights" or "humanism" than it it is by the gender polarizing term "feminism." Well in that case, that particular woman you described is either very confused or an opportunist. Either way, to judge a broad spectrum of women on a few is, among other things, wrong. I agree with you Barky. Lots of emotional arguments.
meerkat stew Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 I have yet to see anything but emotional diatribes against feminism here, or anywhere. Mostly by "traditional" men who want stereotyped gender roles. Not sure why ANYBODY would want stereotyped gender roles. Seems plain to me that lots of men are living in the past. It's possible to disagree with "feminism" as a concept and not want traditional gender roles at the same time. Feminism polarizes the genders against each other unnecessarily, and the term has been so politically corrupted that there is no "good" use for it any more. The backlash I'm talking about in this thread will include an equally politically charged and polarizing "men's rights movement" which is also bogus. Both genders are responsible in equal measure for the world we live in, both genders need to accept responsibility for our victories and mistakes. If gender polarizing concepts such as "feminism" didn't exist, this board would likely lose half its posts overnight, which might not be a good thing for the board owner, but would be for those who post here out of misery and frustration with the status quo.
meerkat stew Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Either way, to judge a broad spectrum of women on a few is, among other things, wrong. Yet that is -exactly- what modern mainstream feminism does by focusing its gender polarization on the lowest common denominator of men. Any time men's issues or complaints about the status quo are brought, the discussion will quickly degenerate into a claim by one side that all the deadbeat dads, sexual predators and greedy old white male businessmen are out there beating and killing women and children, poisoning them with corrupted products, with abandon. The faulty logic goes: There are bad men out there>>> we must vigilantly protect ourselves and our children against the bad men through legislation that just so happens to grow the power of the government. Who are the real "bad men" in this propagandized way of approaching social action?
donnamaybe Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 I think what you're describing as feminism is actually only a small portion of feminism as a whole (you're thinking of radical feminism). EXACTLY! These guys are ranting on and on about a miniscule portion of the female population. I think the bulk of women find these radical females just as ridiculous as the guys do.
calizaggy Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 (edited) I have yet to see anything but emotional diatribes against feminism here, or anywhere. Mostly by "traditional" men who want stereotyped gender roles. Not sure why ANYBODY would want stereotyped gender roles. Seems plain to me that lots of men are living in the past. ? No offense, but aren't you the guy who started a thread about never being in a real relationship since 17, while spending lots of your time scouring the internet for easy sex with complete strangers you are barely attracted to? That is simply a low level of fullfillment, and I can see why you are opposed to gender roles.. You forgot what a real woman even is.. You see them merely as sex objects, which is another side effect of feminism. You are incapable of truly bonding with a member of the opposite sex, which is an arrested development of sorts. Edited March 3, 2010 by calizaggy
Jersey Shortie Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Lots of emotional arguments. So what? Most arguements are made up on some level of emotion and fact. We come to the opinions we come to based on our life experiences, our emotions to these experiences, and the facts we've picked up to support our views.
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