threebyfate Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Like any other form of theology or ideology, it can be subverted by crazies. When crazies get obsessive, they in turn, pass down their crazies to the next generation. In essence, Feminism was a lot more militant in the '60s and '70s. It was embraced by both sane and a minority (thank goodness) of crazy people. The crazies passed on their obessive victim attitudes to their children, both male and female. The majority (thank goodness) sane individuals produced balanced children. And so it goes, from one generation to the next. Feminism and traditionalism both have a minority (thank goodness) extremists. I strongly encourage that the progeny of crazies, break the cycle, so your children won't get driven crazy.
TheLoneSock Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Do guys (other than calizag) who criticize feminism want women to return to entirely submisive roles and leave the workforce? No, I don't.
silverfish Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 In order to respond appropriately to that comment, I need to know whether you're a Villa or a Man U fan. Well taramere, being a lady, unlike these silly feminists who just don't know how to have fun LOL, I must confess to just sit there with my small glass of white wine, and clap along to whichever team my 6'3 loaded BF supports... I think today I was with the one who likes the purple team?!!!! TBH I'm not really a purple person, but I like my BF desperately and want to please him however I can. Sadly, as he has so much more money than me, it's the only way I can repay his generosity, although sometimes I must confess I don't fight him off for more than 10 minutes if he wants to have sex with me during the half time break thingy.... only if Alan Shearer is commentating obviously so i can look over his shoulder and pretend that he is really my BF. Before i get flamed here.... I KNOW my BF secretly fantasises about Wayne Rooney.... I am happy to say that my 6'3, loaded BF ALSO considers himself a feminist....oh and if you can explain the offside rule to me???? I think he might ask me to marry him next week!!!!!
Taramere Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Well taramere, being a lady, unlike these silly feminists who just don't know how to have fun LOL, I must confess to just sit there with my small glass of white wine, and clap along to whichever team my 6'3 loaded BF supports... Quite right. Don't forget the side on which your bread is buttered. I approve of almost this entire scenario you've outlined. The only thing I'm not happy about is the small glass of wine you mentioned. That smacks too much of Sex in the City and high falutin' nonsense like that. I don't hold with that. It's too middle class, which smacks of degrees, professions, militantly whipping out a tit to feed a baby in the most inappropriate settings, putting children to nurseries during the day and other unfeminine matters. You should be drinking babycham (or perhaps a nice snowball) on your day off from toiling in the factory. Or you should be an aristocratic lady of leisure who drinks champage and chokes with delicate laughter at the notion of women spending their day in an office rather than shagging the head gardener in his greenhouse. I think today I was with the one who likes the purple team?!!!! TBH I'm not really a purple person, but I like my BF desperately and want to please him however I can. Don't feel bad about supporting a purple team. I drive a purple car. It's not a very good car, but I thought the colour was really pretty...so I just went with it. Sadly, as he has so much more money than me, it's the only way I can repay his generosity, although sometimes I must confess I don't fight him off for more than 10 minutes if he wants to have sex with me during the half time break thingy.... only if Alan Shearer is commentating obviously so i can look over his shoulder and pretend that he is really my BF. Before i get flamed here.... I KNOW my BF secretly fantasises about Wayne Rooney.... Who wouldn't! Goodness me. Wayne Rooney eh? I bet that puts plenty of lead in his pencil. Nothing like a bit of Wayne love to make a man a man. I am happy to say that my 6'3, loaded BF ALSO considers himself a feminist....oh and if you can explain the offside rule to me???? I think he might ask me to marry him next week!!!!! It's been explained to me perhaps 150 times in my life, and I'm still not exactly sure. Something to do with there having to be at least one defender between the striker and the goal post....except that it's more complicated than that. Too complicated for me I'm afraid, so please don't ask me that ever again. God forbid the precious wittle Tawamere bwain should explode in a puff of delicately scented smoke last thing on a Sunday night.
hoping2heal Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Everyone has their own personal definition for what "feminism" and "real men" are. You think equal opportunity for women is insulting? No, I don't and I think you already know that because I said so in my post, so let's not play games girlfriend. I think the basic principles of femism are great - but as many have already pointed out - feminism has been jacked by the fringe - and not just the "man hating" fringe either. Modern feminism is insulting to women for that reason; they have taken a good thing and dirtied up with a bunch of serious B.S. In fact - I am trying to keep an open mind and happily waiting for the day a feminist comes across as rallying for women's rights instead of just finding things to bicker about and make issues out of NOTHING.
threebyfate Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 No, I don't and I think you already know that because I said so in my post, so let's not play games girlfriend. I think the basic principles of femism are great - but as many have already pointed out - feminism has been jacked by the fringe - and not just the "man hating" fringe either. Modern feminism is insulting to women for that reason; they have taken a good thing and dirtied up with a bunch of serious B.S. In fact - I am trying to keep an open mind and happily waiting for the day a feminist comes across as rallying for women's rights instead of just finding things to bicker about and make issues out of NOTHING.Feminism has not been jacked by the fringe but that's just the perception that anti-feminists want to believe. I don't honestly know any fringe-feminists in real life, only sane individuals. But then, I don't know any fringe-misogynists in real life, only sane individuals. The Internet seems to be a place where the fringe elements prosper.
Woggle Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 If I went to a surplus store and bought a firefighter outfit then commited a bunch of crimes while wearing that outfit wouldn't it give firefighters a bad name? If the firefighters union then refused to denounce me and criticized anybody who denounced me as being afraid of strong firefighters wouldn't they have only themselves to blame for any negative image they might have? The same thing happened to feminism.
sweetjasmine Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 If I went to a surplus store and bought a firefighter outfit then commited a bunch of crimes while wearing that outfit wouldn't it give firefighters a bad name? Wearing a firefighter outfit makes you a firefighter? So if you went out and bought a wig, dress and high heels, and committed a bunch of crimes while wearing those things, that'd give women a bad name? the firefighters union Where's the Women's Union that speaks for all women? I didn't know such an organization existed.
Taramere Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 If I went to a surplus store and bought a firefighter outfit then commited a bunch of crimes while wearing that outfit wouldn't it give firefighters a bad name? If the firefighters union then refused to denounce me and criticized anybody who denounced me as being afraid of strong firefighters wouldn't they have only themselves to blame for any negative image they might have? What a bizarre scenario. I'm going to have some really strange dreams tonight, thanks to this thread.
threebyfate Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 If it makes you feel any better, Woggle, I'm more than happy to denounce any loopty-loops from the human race. How this makes any difference to the ideology of Feminism, I have no idea. This is why militant feminism has been denounced and replaced by both Liberal and Third-wave feminists.
sally4sara Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 If I went to a surplus store and bought a firefighter outfit then commited a bunch of crimes while wearing that outfit wouldn't it give firefighters a bad name? If the firefighters union then refused to denounce me and criticized anybody who denounced me as being afraid of strong firefighters wouldn't they have only themselves to blame for any negative image they might have? The same thing happened to feminism. Or perhaps the firefighters know no amount of firefighting gear will make a person a firefighter and would feel commenting on the fake firefighter only further attaches them to an individual they don't wish to be identified with seeing as how the person was not a firefighter? I don't speak for drunk drivers that use the same car I do.
silverfish Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 If I went to a surplus store and bought a firefighter outfit then commited a bunch of crimes while wearing that outfit wouldn't it give firefighters a bad name? If the firefighters union then refused to denounce me and criticized anybody who denounced me as being afraid of strong firefighters wouldn't they have only themselves to blame for any negative image they might have? The same thing happened to feminism. To be honest, the firefighters would have had it coming...as a punishment to both firefighters and feminists.... I say lock them in a room together and don't let them out til they have formed some sort of coalition. I'd just like to say at this point....I consider myself a feminist, and therefore it is imperative that I be locked in with the firefighters / feminists in order to report back to you all.
Kamille Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 To be honest, the firefighters would have had it coming...as a punishment to both firefighters and feminists.... I say lock them in a room together and don't let them out til they have formed some sort of coalition. I'd just like to say at this point....I consider myself a feminist, and therefore it is imperative that I be locked in with the firefighters / feminists in order to report back to you all. :lmao: Ooh ooh ooh! I'm a feminist! I'm a feminist! Pick me!
Kamille Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 But seriously, to take a real life example, I do not judge all Americans on the actions of Eric Robert Rudolph. I think everyone here could agree that would be ridiculous. Or, I do not judge all christians based on the actions of fundamentalists. Nor do I judge all muslims on the actions of their fundamentalists.
Woggle Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 Maybe I should start using the word misandrist instead of feminist when describing the women I have a beef with. I will help feminists take that word back.
sally4sara Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 Labels...fah. Can't I just say I don't support or like *********s?
troggleputty Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 Maybe I should start using the word misandrist instead of feminist when describing the women I have a beef with. I will help feminists take that word back. "Beotch" works just fine for me, actually.
threebyfate Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 One step forwards, Woggle. If you say you have a beef with misandrists, I couldn't agree with you more! I can't stand misandrists. I have a beef with mysogynists. Will you agree with me?
Woggle Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 One step forwards, Woggle. If you say you have a beef with misandrists, I couldn't agree with you more! I can't stand misandrists. I have a beef with mysogynists. Will you agree with me? I guess so but I do sympathize with how a man gets to that point.
sally4sara Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 And the Grinch's heart grew three sizes that day.....
Woggle Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 And the Grinch's heart grew three sizes that day..... I don't know about that but if a woman is willing to go against misandry then she is my friend.
Kamille Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 I don't know about that but if a woman is willing to go against misandry then she is my friend. I fully go against misandry. And misogyny. I dislike all Us/Them binaries. Especially the feminists/firemen one. I really hope we follow up on our plan to unite them.
Jersey Shortie Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 ....One replied, 'feminism killed real men'. After giving it some thought,I thought it was interesting to say the least. Did the fight for gender equality yield unintended results in the field of romance? What do you think? Did you find it "interesting" or "true"? Hugely different meaning depending on how you answer that. As to your questions: 1. No Feminism didn't kill "real men". 2. Yes, Feminism yielded unintended results in the field of romance. It also yielded some positives as well. I typically find people who believe that Feminism is the downfall of relationship ills, women's ills, and men's ills; latch on to this kind of statement because it takes out any personal male accountability for the state of affairs we find ourselves in today. As if "real men" were just hapless victims to the evil movement meant to give women more freedom and that there would only be "real men" if only x, y or z happened and women are just running amock! In all honestly, Feminism was necessary. And in all honesty, the state of affairs today is an accumlation of social paybacks both good and bad across decades of gender interactions. Not just one movement, time or place. Isn't there some irony is saying the thing that killed "real men" was a movement about about brining more equality to women? If these "real men" were really "real men", would they have been "killed" off by anything such as a social movement about female equality? Or would they have risen to the challenge, stood by their beliefs, and stood by the women in their life who wanted more freedom while maintaining their personal masculinity? It seem to me by saying Feminism is responsible for the death of "real men", we might as well ask how much responsibility do women have for men maintaining their masculinity? And we must think that women have ALL responsiblity for men to maintain their masculinity. A certain group of men laminate on "feminism" and it's ills because they feel better about themselves blaming it on a social movement, failing to consider their own failures alongside women's. No doubt Feminism has major issues. But is it the reason "real men" are "dead"? Or is it an easy excuse to make it seem like men don't have any control over anything, even their own masculinity? To me it sounds like a grossly over simplification of a bigger issue, and lack of self perception to evaluate how men have contributed to their own issues today completely separate from the ills of Feminism. How men don't discuss what *they've* done to contribute to the downfall of the dating dynamic. It's so easy for you guys to discuss it it terms of the downfalls of Feminism but how about your won personal accountablity and other men's? Whenever this subject comes up, I can't help but think that feminism makes a convenient scapegoat for social issues that are way more intricate and GENDER DIVERSE then mearly a movement meant to give women equality. In all honestly, blaming women for desiring and gaining equality is like blaming African Americans for the fact that they no longer do the white man's hard manual labor. For the sake of argument, lets say feminism DID kill "real men". Here are some questions that would need to be answered and any man or woman should feel free to address them: 1.Would it be better to live in a world where women were not allowed to vote, were thought of as property, and were given dowries to be married off? 2. How many men today sincerely want to support women? 3. How many men today can support a family on a single income? 4. How much are women responsiblie for men's mascunilinty? No, we're still out there. We just don't date feminists Lol. We prefer the old fashioned, conservative, feminine type. That's totally fine. But I find alot of times that alot of guys only hold these old fashioned ideals up for the women to live up to while they hold little expectations for themselves to live up to old fashioned ideals themselves. If you like dating women with old fashinoned values then you need to be a man of old fashioned values. Meaning you pay, you figure out the dates, you take the lead, you entertain her, protect her, provide for her, open doors for her..etc. etc etc. However, usually what men become bitter about is that they want these old fashion moral girls that are wild sex kittens only for them while still wanting her to pay equal way for dates, make just as much as him, work just as hard as him AND while popping out the kids, maintaing her amazign figure and getting her butt back to work. You want an old fashion girl? Great. Then be prepared to take the responsiblity to treat women with old fashinon values.
silverfish Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 I fully go against misandry. And misogyny. I dislike all Us/Them binaries. Especially the feminists/firemen one. I really hope we follow up on our plan to unite them. Agenda for the first meeting Whither bra burning ? A debate and practical demonstration as an icebreaking exercise for both sides of the sex war.
donnamaybe Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 I would say feminism may have weeded out the "pansies" from the real men.
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