Woggle Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 You're not talking about feminists either. You're talking about women with inferiority complexes that mask it with abrasive entitlement attitudes. It is about control. Rape is also about those who feel inferior and seek to remedy that with an aggressive act aimed at taking control. You claim to hate women and fear them. So are you responsible for all the rapists? The fact is woggle, the only time I am faced with real misogyny is on LS and IRL from these same women who terrify you. They are also hateful to other women because, I suspect, deep down they fear they ARE inferior and for this reason can't show respect to other women. That is why they are not and never will be feminists. But the fact is that many women like this hide behind the feminist label. Every cheating woman I have known has claimed it was some act of feminist rebellion against being a people pleaser. Every misandrist I have known hides behind the F word. Maybe they are not real feminists but real feminists have let them take that word and run with it.
sally4sara Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 But the fact is that many women like this hide behind the feminist label. Every cheating woman I have known has claimed it was some act of feminist rebellion against being a people pleaser. Every misandrist I have known hides behind the F word. Maybe they are not real feminists but real feminists have let them take that word and run with it. What "let"? People do what they do whether we like it or not.
Woggle Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Possibly, but I've actually never met a really attractive woman who went around proclaiming herself as a "feminist," and certainly, I've never met a really attractive woman who's behaved in the manner that feminists seem to want people to believe they should behave in. LOL. I'll wait patiently to proclaim the dawn of the "age of feminism" when we start seeing multiple threads on LS from men complaining about women who don't pay for them when they go out on dates. What about the goldiggers who use their looks and charm to bilk men out of of their money? What about the attractive women who make a man think she loves him while she cheats on him left and right? The false rape accuser in that other thread is a pretty attractive woman. The hairy and butch women who openly hate men are not a real threat in my book because men know what it is and are repulsed by it. The feminists men need to worry about are the ones who look good and smile in your face but will crush your heart when you let your guard down. Misandry is a very subtle thing that sneaks up behind you and slits your throat when you least expect it.
troggleputty Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 I'm going to make any comparison I find relevant. LOL the question is whether anyone else finds it to be relevant. You can choose to not read if you can't deal with it. LOL again. I read it and I dealt with it. You compared "feminists" with "rapists." On to the next tho I'm not sure what it has to do with anything. If it has nothing to do with anything, then why bother. Typically females like to have it "both ways". In this case claiming that something I posted is irrelevant ("why bother") but then trying to rebut it anyway. The claim of irrelevance is actually your fallback position since your rebuttal is not a very good one. My husband says 8 or 9 so I'll say a 7 . I've always been considered very attractive in the vast majority of my social interactions. Hmmm...if your husband says "8 or 9" then that has to mean "6 or 7" at best. He has no vested interest in being objective about this. ("Honey does this dress make me look fat?") If you're claiming to be a "7" I'll make an educated guess that you may have been a "7" when you were 15-20 years younger on your best day ever. But probably not. So I'm calling your "7" a "5". I am pretty even keel. I have many friends who value my perspective. I don't carry much anger in my life and I am satisfied being who I am. LOL you didn't answer the question. I asked whether objectively speaking the responding person (in this case you since you volunteered) was mentally/emotionally health and well-adjusted. I.e. are you in therapy now? Have you ever been in therapy? Are you on any "meds"? Have you ever been diagnosed with a personality disorder, phobia, or other psychological condition? Etc etc. Objective, not subjective data is required to answer this question. I have a great 6 year relationship with a great man who is my husband and a great relationship with my wonderful son who is twelve and will be attending some classes at John Hopkins next year. I'm having a little problem with your arithmetic. Your relationship with your husband is six years but your son is 12? What happened to your son's father? Also you didn't answer the question of whether or not your relationship with your (current I guess husband, the father of the child has been rendered "irrelevant" I suppose) current husband is a monogamous one. As in: have either of you ever cheated on the other? Or did you or your current spouse ever cheat with each other on someone else? If you had a healthy mature stable relationship with the father of your son, why is someone else your current husband? I absolutely have asked men out and yes I have paid for the entire meal on a few occasions. I asked my husband out on our first date and I paid the bill. But most often I went dutch even if he asked, even if I asked; we are grown people not children. I'm not really concerned with money beyond covering my basic needs. I like second hand clothes and sewing my own. Spending money isn't a talent. Forest for the trees...... Could you please elaborate on your relationship with the father of your son?
silverfish Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Brit humour. Sometimes I forget I'm posting on an American board, where everything's deadly serious and any jokes must be highlighted diligently with the use of emoticons. No offence to those of you who are actually capable of having a laugh It made me laugh almost as much as watching Villa getting beaten by Man U *insert smiley here*
Kamille Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 LOL you need to re-read the thread. Funny, I thought about telling you the same thing, but thought it would contribute little to a real exchange of ideas. See, your analysis of the thread is highly influenced by your ideological stance. If you follow the conversation from the start, the idea that one should distingish between misandrist and feminist is introduced very early on by NDDB. Woggle says he will accept feminism once they purge out all the misandrist. S4S is comparing men vs rapist to feminists vs misandrists to make her point. No problem Toggle, glad I could clarify the issue for you.
troggleputty Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Funny, I thought about telling you the same thing, but thought it would contribute little to a real exchange of ideas. See, your analysis of the thread is highly influenced by your ideological stance. If you follow the conversation from the start, the idea that one should distingish between misandrist and feminist is introduced very early on by NDDB. Woggle says he will accept feminism once they purge out all the misandrist. S4S is comparing men vs rapist to feminists vs misandrists to make her point. No problem Toggle, glad I could clarify the issue for you. So you're saying that the definition of a "feminist" or a "misandrist" is a woman who rapes men?
Taramere Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Hmmm...if your husband says "8 or 9" then that has to mean "6 or 7" at best. He has no vested interest in being objective about this. ("Honey does this dress make me look fat?") If you're claiming to be a "7" I'll make an educated guess that you may have been a "7" when you were 15-20 years younger on your best day ever. But probably not. So I'm calling your "7" a "5". Is that intelligent, "educated" debating in your neck of the woods? "I disagree with what you are saying, therefore you must be average looking at best." ? Sally4sara posted a candid pic of herself on one of those now outlawed "post a pic of yourself" threads a while back. As I recall she looked to be in her late twenties, is slim and has facial features that are sufficiently feminine and symmetrical to pass for a model. I have an ex colleague who thinks feminism is a dreadful thing. She weighs 250 pounds, but I'm sure she's stunningly beautiful on the Internet. Should I put my matchmaking skills to work? How tall are you? She only dates men over 6 ft 2". It made me laugh almost as much as watching Villa getting beaten by Man U In order to respond appropriately to that comment, I need to know whether you're a Villa or a Man U fan.
Kamille Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 So you're saying that the definition of a "feminist" or a "misandrist" is a woman who rapes men? No, I'm saying: is it healthy to dismiss, belittle and hate a whole category because of the actions of a subset of that category.
troggleputty Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 No, I'm saying: is it healthy to dismiss, belittle and hate a whole category because of the actions of a subset of that category. I didn't do that, you did. When you tried to assert any sort of valid analogy or comparison could exist that equates "men" with "rapists."
troggleputty Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Is that intelligent, "educated" debating in your neck of the woods? Yes. More to the point, it's accurate. "I disagree with what you are saying, therefore you must be average looking at best." ? LOL. Where did I say that? I didn't, did I. I merely pointed out that if a woman's husband tells the woman that he thinks shes an "8 or a 9" then it's pretty obvious that some serious grade inflation is going on. When a woman characterizes herself as a "7" in a conversation like this, do you sincerely believe that she's actually a "7"? Sally4sara posted a candid pic of herself on one of those now outlawed "post a pic of yourself" threads a while back. As I recall she looked to be in her late twenties, is slim and has facial features that are sufficiently feminine and symmetrical to pass for a model. Well I don't have the benefit of seeing that picture, and you know, it's amazing what a person can do with the magic of digital photography nowadays. In any case the mere fact that a woman who claims to be involved in a healthy, mature, stable long term relationship is SO INSECURE about her appearance as to be posting pics of herself seeking external validation on an internet site, speaks volumes, wouldn't you agree? By the way she's not in her late twenties, she's in her mid to late 30's. She has "feminine" features? She's "slim"? She's "symmetrical"? I'd put those characterizations of yours in the category of "damning with faint prasie." What you did not say, and pointedly so (having had the benefit of seeing her pic, which presumably presented her in the best possible light) was that you thought she was: "beautiful"; "pretty"; "sexy"; "hot"; etc. etc. Also, again pointedly, YOU did not rate her on the 1 - 10 scale. So what this really means is that you do not personally agree she is particularly attractive but you don't want to come out and say that. Because that would support my argument and detract from yours. I have an ex colleague who thinks feminism is a dreadful thing. She weighs 250 pounds, but I'm sure she's stunningly beautiful on the Internet. You just proved my point. Should I put my matchmaking skills to work? How tall are you? She only dates men over 6 ft 2". Wow. So typical of women; on the one hand they claim to be "feminists," on the other hand they never lose a chance to slip a knife in the back of another female, if it suits them. By the way why do you have an issue with your ex-colleagues weight if she doesn't?
Taramere Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 (edited) What you did not say, and pointedly so (having had the benefit of seeing her pic, which presumably presented her in the best possible light) was that you thought she was: "beautiful"; "pretty"; "sexy"; "hot"; etc. etc. Also, again pointedly, YOU did not rate her on the 1 - 10 scale. that's because I don't use scales like that. So what this really means is that you do not personally agree she is particularly attractive but you don't want to come out and say that. Because that would support my argument and detract from yours. I don't gush over people with compliments about their looks, as I don't see the need. As I recall, she's very attractive. My point is less about waxing lyrical over S4S's appearance, more to highlight the pointlessness of someone casting negative aspersions on the physical appearance of somebody they've never met and whose appearance they can't therefore possibly comment with any accuracy on, simply because they don't like what that person has to say. Wow. So typical of women; on the one hand they claim to be "feminists," on the other hand they never lose a chance to slip a knife in the back of another female, if it suits them. As far as I'm concerned, feminism is about a woman having freedom to make certain choices. It's not about wrapping women up in cotton wool, giving a woman special dispensation against any insults on the basis that she's female or protecting her from any criticism for the choices she makes. I can't be bothered with the more earnest, militant, humourless brand of feminism that holds that it's sexist to ever criticise a woman. Or masculinism that does the same with regard to men. Or people of either gender whose faces would crack if they smiled and who have to make a mountain out of every molehill. By the way why do you have an issue with your ex-colleagues weight if she doesn't? There you go. Making an issue out of a passing comment. Making a passing comment about an acquaintance hardly equates with having an issue with that person. I think obesity is unhealthy and physically unattractive. If you disagree and think big is beautiful then bounce away to your heart's content! Edited February 28, 2010 by Taramere
troggleputty Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 that's because I don't use scales like that. So why did you even inject yourself into the conversation? I don't gush over people with compliments about their looks, as I don't see the need. So why did you even inject yourself into the conversation? As I recall, she's very attractive. ...I'm glad to see that you don't gush over people with compliments about their looks. Is calling someone "very attractive" not a compliment in your book? My point is less about waxing lyrical over S4S's appearance, more to highlight the pointlessness of someone casting negative aspersions on the physical appearance of somebody they've never met and whose appearance they can't therefore possibly comment with any accuracy on, simply because they don't like what that person has to say. No, that's not what you tried to do at all. You tried to prove me "wrong" specifically by rendering your judgment on your perception of S4S's appearance. You previously claimed that you disagreed with me, not because I hadn't seen S4S, but because you had seen her, and claimed her to be...."symmetrical"? "Slender"? Now you're saying you don't rate people based on their appearance, when in fact at the same time, you do claim to rate them on their appearance. But you never responded to the obvious point that 1) people tend to overestimate their attractiveness and 2) their spouses certainly do, at least to them. As far as I'm concerned, feminism is about a woman having freedom to make certain choices. It's not about wrapping women up in cotton wool, giving a woman special dispensation against any insults on the basis that she's female or protecting her from any criticism for the choices she makes. I can't be bothered with the more earnest, militant, humourless brand of feminism that holds that it's sexist to ever criticise a woman. Or masculinism that does the same with regard to men. Or people of either gender whose faces would crack if they smiled and who have to make a mountain out of every molehill. You don't seem to have much of a sense of humor, do you? There you go. Making an issue out of a passing comment. No, YOU are the one who gratuitously chose to "make an issue" out of your "ex colleague's" weight. It wasn't just a "passing comment." It was an expression of your idea of what makes a woman attractive. You don't like heavy women. Good for you. Making a passing comment about an acquaintance hardly equates with having an issue with that person. Well then why did you bother to mention her? You said she's a 250 lb. woman who dislikes "feminism" and also likes tall handsome men. Your friend's weight is completely irrelevant other than as showing where you're coming from. I think obesity is unhealthy and physically unattractive. If you disagree and think big is beautiful then bounce away to your heart's content! I thought you didn't rate people's worth based on their appearance.
mortensorchid Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 It depends on what aspect you are looking at, and I don't believe that feminism per say destroyed "real men". Women in general once they became more assertive (at home, the working world, personal choices, etc.) were wanting equality. Without getting too deep into that, many would argue that we still have not achieved it. However, I would argue that technology has certainly made us "braver". How many people have just been dumped or blown off via email in recent years? But then again, many have been dumped thanks to the telephone as well when that was the only means of communication other than a face to face talk as well. It's come full circle, in that now we see it as somewhat braver if a person is dumped via telephone, but email / text messages are truly cowardly. As to men, well, they are not half as brave as I thought they were growing up. But then again, were they ever? Technology has allowed us to take the coward's route much easier than before, but they were just as cowardly as they were before email and things. Maybe they just had to face it more directly. Just a thought.
Kamille Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 I didn't do that, you did. When you tried to assert any sort of valid analogy or comparison could exist that equates "men" with "rapists." Oh wow! Now you've shot yourself in the foot. Should I walk you through the argument again? I said exactly the opposite. Men shouldn't be equated with rapists, just like feminists shouldn't be equated with misandrists.
sally4sara Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 I didn't do that, you did. When you tried to assert any sort of valid analogy or comparison could exist that equates "men" with "rapists." Yes and I was speaking to woggle who feels women = evil. You can just wait to speak about my posts for when they are directed at you.
sally4sara Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Could you please elaborate on your relationship with the father of your son? Why? You don't pay any credibility to my words when they are not convenient to you argument - I won't waste my time. I could tell you he is dead and you'd probably assume I killed him.
sally4sara Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Wow. So typical of women; on the one hand they claim to be "feminists," on the other hand they never lose a chance to slip a knife in the back of another female, if it suits them. I agree here anyway. I would view hooking a female friend up with you to be a back stabbing action too..... Dude, almost everyone on LS participated in the thread. Sorry you missed out. I love the way ugly people try to say sharing pictures of yourself is "seeking validation".
Taramere Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 You don't seem to have much of a sense of humor, do you? I have a sufficient sense of the ridiculous to recognise that you're meerkat stew posting under a different username. I don't plan to spend any more time down that particular rabbit hole. Ciao.
Author MrNate Posted February 28, 2010 Author Posted February 28, 2010 What is "real men"? It sounds to me like something you would say to same a man who isn't behaving or acting the way YOU think he should. That is sexist and controlling. I think men can decide for themselves what being a "real man" is for them. the term 'real men' is, of course, subjective. I guess I should have mentioned that in my post. but i would venture to say that the term shares a lot of the same qualities people would mention.
Taramere Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 the term 'real men' is, of course, subjective. I guess I should have mentioned that in my post. but i would venture to say that the term shares a lot of the same qualities people would mention. I think a lot of the qualities people are prone to mentioning, when they express a view about "real men" are qualities that are admirable in anyone. The best example I can think of, off the top of my head, is provided by the Kipling poem "IF". It ends with the advice "and, which is more, you'll be a man my son." Yet the qualities that poem exhorts the reader to develop within themselves are qualities that would be attractive and admirable in either gender.
Taramere Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Im pretty sure that was written by Joni Mitchell I'm on a poster recognition roll this evening. But in this particular case, it's brought a smile to my face.
sweetjasmine Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 I am not talking about all women. I am talking about the feminist movment. Women complain about feminist being a dirty word but I never hear a word condemning the women who hide behind it to justify their manhating and generally treating men like garbage. LOL, you mean you didn't see my posts where I've been criticizing them? Maybe you're not hearing those words because you're not listening.
sally4sara Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 the term 'real men' is, of course, subjective. I guess I should have mentioned that in my post. but i would venture to say that the term shares a lot of the same qualities people would mention. One could argue then that if any were "real men" it would've taken more than the behavior of other people to kill them off? The feminist movement also freed men from the burden of an over grown, co-dependent woman child and any actual children they had together. It freed them from having to make decisions for two with one head and also taking the full brunt of blame when the decision went pear shaped. It freed them from not seeking jobs they felt driven towards simply because they were once considered "woman's jobs". I just can't imagine woman finding better education options, the chance at a fair wage contribution to the household, or a broader range of life skills to be responsible for whatever traits you feel men NOW display rather than the traits your opinion of "real men" displayed prior to the feminist movement. We use to consider black people to be less than equal. Views changed and sure, part of the natural reaction to having discriminated against them in the first place is some are hateful towards white folks. Just because some are militant and racist against whites doesn't mean all black people are responsible for the lack of KKK members, nor should all black people be held responsible for the ones who are militant and hateful. It doesn't matter what special interest group a hateful person chooses to identify with, they do nothing to benefit the special interest group with their hate and they do not define the special interest group they try to latch on to. Take the Red Cross for instance. Some kiddie toucher volunteers for them a couple times - would the Red Cross then become NAMBLA by default because some folks have a low IQ and cannot be arsed to remember that the Red Cross has nothing to do with NAMBLA? Should the Red Cross stop towards their charitable goals? Do they need to take from their resources (time, money, effort) and put it towards battling NAMBLA when their original goals had nothing to do with it in the first place?
TheLoneSock Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 I'm in no way bitter or angry at women. I've once heard in a conversation, (not on here), which detailed why women were having such trouble finding a real man. One replied, 'feminism killed real men'. After giving it some thought,I thought it was interesting to say the least. Did the fight for gender equality yield unintended results in the field of romance? What do you think? No, we're still out there. We just don't date feminists Lol. We prefer the old fashioned, conservative, feminine type.
Recommended Posts