MrNate Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 I'm in no way bitter or angry at women. I've once heard in a conversation, (not on here), which detailed why women were having such trouble finding a real man. One replied, 'feminism killed real men'. After giving it some thought,I thought it was interesting to say the least. Did the fight for gender equality yield unintended results in the field of romance? What do you think?
hoping2heal Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Well I guess it depends on what is defined as being "a real man". That phrase is far too vague to know what context one is speaking of it in. I'm a woman and I think feminism is insulting. Not to mention Exhausting - who in the hell wants to spend life getting angry and bent out of shape out of EVERY.LITTLE.THING?? I'm all for the equal rights of women to vote - to earn a paycheck if they want - and to be paid the same wage for doing the same job- that's fine and good and great - but most of the feminists I've ever known have sucked the fun right out of everything and overanalyzed everything to the death. I'm a woman and I have a hard time taking them seriously.
hats Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 It's unfortunate that the radical members of feminism have pretty much undermined their own cause, but feminism is really just about equal opportunity for women. So I'd say I'm a feminist, and most people in developed nations are as well. While I wouldn't say that feminism killed off "real men", it did break down much of our expectations regarding traditional gender roles. Today's women can work for themselves and that makes them more independent. This also means she'll have less time to take care of the home and raise children, so men are often expected to help out. So today's women have much more power and on a social level this is what they wanted. But what I think men and women are realizing now is that on an individual, romantic level, this is actually the opposite of what we want. IMO a lot of what we consider romance or chemistry is rooted in dominant/submissive tension, where generally the man is dominant and the woman is submissive. That's why guys are still paying for dinner even after women won equal pay and the right to vote. Between true equals, it feels too much like a friendship, there's no "spark". I think in the immediate wake of the feminist movement's successes, women didn't want to allow themselves to believe this, because they didn't want to undermine what they'd fought for. Only recently a lot of the popularity of the dating self help genre has been touching on it. So women's increasing social power and independence meant they developed an increasingly strict standard for powerful, dominant men. Obviously fewer men were going to meet this criteria.
Author MrNate Posted February 28, 2010 Author Posted February 28, 2010 It's unfortunate that the radical members of feminism have pretty much undermined their own cause, but feminism is really just about equal opportunity for women. So I'd say I'm a feminist, and most people in developed nations are as well. While I wouldn't say that feminism killed off "real men", it did break down much of our expectations regarding traditional gender roles. Today's women can work for themselves and that makes them more independent. This also means she'll have less time to take care of the home and raise children, so men are often expected to help out. So today's women have much more power and on a social level this is what they wanted. But what I think men and women are realizing now is that on an individual, romantic level, this is actually the opposite of what we want. IMO a lot of what we consider romance or chemistry is rooted in dominant/submissive tension, where generally the man is dominant and the woman is submissive. That's why guys are still paying for dinner even after women won equal pay and the right to vote. Between true equals, it feels too much like a friendship, there's no "spark". I think in the immediate wake of the feminist movement's successes, women didn't want to allow themselves to believe this, because they didn't want to undermine what they'd fought for. Only recently a lot of the popularity of the dating self help genre has been touching on it. So women's increasing social power and independence meant they developed an increasingly strict standard for powerful, dominant men. Obviously fewer men were going to meet this criteria. that's an interesting analysis. my thoughts were kind of along this line as well. i wonder how we could remedy the situation? society as a whole, particulary in the field of romance, needs a makeover in my opinion
nddb Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Feminism starts out as a great idea. Along the way, it's hi-jacked by the male-hating fringe. Don't blame the idea. Blame those who hi-jacked it for their narrow politically driven agenda. I have seen very few content, happy, lasting relationship between a man and a self-proclaimed feminist woman (i.e., the one buying into today's brand of male-bashing feminism).
Woggle Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 If women truly did practice what they preach when it came to equality I would fully support it. The ironic thing is that ballbusting feminists seem to have the biggest fetish for dominant men. It's like they want to be able to bend all the gender rules they want but men to stay these rigid who can't show any emotion or vulnerability or else she will lose attraction for us. In short feminists are a bunch of hypocrites.
sweetjasmine Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Everyone has their own personal definition for what "feminism" and "real men" are. I'm a woman and I think feminism is insulting. You think equal opportunity for women is insulting?
sweetjasmine Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Feminism starts out as a great idea. Along the way, it's hi-jacked by the male-hating fringe. Don't blame the idea. Blame those who hi-jacked it for their narrow politically driven agenda. I have seen very few content, happy, lasting relationship between a man and a self-proclaimed feminist woman (i.e., the one buying into today's brand of male-bashing feminism). I'm a self-proclaimed feminist woman (in a happy, lasting relationship with a man), and I think the male-bashing stuff is BS and just as insulting as the sexism directed towards women. Feminism isn't about being sexist towards men, and people who distort it into that are gigantic hypocrites. But use the word "feminist" and everyone assumes you want to castrate every male in sight with a butterknife.
Woggle Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 But use the word "feminist" and everyone assumes you want to castrate every male in sight with a butterknife. You can thank the misandrists who hijacked the movement for that negative stigma.
Ruby Slippers Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Women now have the same freedoms that men have (generally, but only in some parts of the world, and still with limitations). I don't think that all women require more dominant/intelligent/successful/whatever partners. But most of us do require either a partner who is on our level, or one who will not be so threatened by our abilities that may exceed his own that his fear of loss drives him to irrational, relationship-destroying behavior. A "real man" is qualitatively the same as a "real woman" -- because he is comfortable with himself and his capabilities, he is not consumed with fear of loss (she's going to cheat on me, she'll realize she can do better and leave me, etc.). Insecure, fear-struck men used to be the ones who controlled and abused their women. They can't get away with that anymore (not as easily, anyway), so they use different forms of attack. And that's never attractive.
sweetjasmine Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 You can thank the misandrists who hijacked the movement for that negative stigma. You're not exactly helping by assuming everyone who calls himself or herself a feminist hates all men.
Woggle Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 You're not exactly helping by assuming everyone who calls himself or herself a feminist hates all men. Until the feminists purge the misandrists I will assume all are the enemy.
sweetjasmine Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Until the feminists purge the misandrists I will assume all are the enemy. "The feminists." Do all feminists have weekly meetings that I'm missing out on? And "purge"? How's that supposed to work? Am I your enemy because I consider myself a feminist?
Woggle Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 "The feminists." Do all feminists have weekly meetings that I'm missing out on? And "purge"? How's that supposed to work? Am I your enemy because I consider myself a feminist? You are not my enemy but I do think men should make a woman pick a side.
stillafool Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 I just don't hear too many women complaining that there aren't any good guys out there. I hear them complaining that a particular guy they like is not contacting them enough or won't commit. I hear men complaining far more about the 'dating scene" than women these days and I wonder why.
Kamille Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 You are not my enemy but I do think men should make a woman pick a side. I don't think men should make women do anything. I'm an adult. I know why I think the way I think and why I lead my life the way I do.
alphamale Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Did the fight for gender equality yield unintended results in the field of romance? What do you think? no i don't think it did
Author MrNate Posted February 28, 2010 Author Posted February 28, 2010 what if i told you i see the opposite? and maybe you hear far more men complaining, but I hear more women. I would say both sides are having problems, and a lot of them.
BellaMoon Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Are you being serious??? Anyone can have the EXACT dating life they choose by the energy and effort they put into it. If you believe you're a gentleman, be a gentleman. Just because a woman may have a great education and/or a successful career doesn't mean she prefers to only date an effeminate man. Ask a woman out on an actual date, bring flowers, open doors, walk her to her door at the end of the date, call when you say you will, arrange for dates ahead of time, let her know she's valued and important, let her know she's admired for her strength and cherished for her beauty (both inside and out). When a man acts like a man, it allows for a woman to be a woman. When's she's treated "less than" then it's fair game for all and won't work out in the end anyway.
Sharla Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 what if i told you i see the opposite? and maybe you hear far more men complaining, but I hear more women. I would say both sides are having problems, and a lot of them. I would say I hear it on both sides equally. I mean this board represents a very small fraction of the globe. My parents are divorced, I've heard complaints from both sides during their single years, friends, people at work, etc. I have not heard it though, in the fashion or too such an extent, as I have on this board. But, there also seems to be a lot of good people on this board, both men and women.
Taramere Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Until the feminists purge the misandrists I will assume all are the enemy. I guess some people are higher maintenance than others, in terms of what they "need" in order to avoid regarding the opposite sex as the enemy and maybe you hear far more men complaining, but I hear more women. I would say both sides are having problems, and a lot of them. In what context are you hearing people complaining? Some people complain as a matter of course; as way of making conversation. They enjoy a good moan, and will buy newspapers like the Daily Mail so that they're well stocked up with things to rant/complain about. Some people are talented in the art of ranting, and can do it in a fairly entertaining way. They'll rant about pretty much anything that takes their fancy or pops into their head. Socially, I don't usually hear men bitching and ranting about feminism. They're more likely to be talking about sport, music, work, tv, films, gossip about friends or foes, any pet project they're currently involved in etc. As far as feminism castrating men goes...what behaviour, by women, do men who fret about women and feminism feel constitutes castrating behaviour?. I've encountered the occasional man, professionally, who sought to bully me by shouting at or saying demeaning things to me. I don't shout back - I'm not an aggressive individual - but I don't burst into tears, and neither will I creep around apologetically or agree submissively with everything an angry man says in an effort to keep the peace. I might ask him why he's shouting. In the case of one boss, I told him to stop relaying his opinion of me as "I don't like you, I don't respect you and your opinion is meaningless to me." Is that the kind of thing you mean? To be fair, the guy was firing me at the time - so I felt justified. Do men who tend towards a bullying approach feel less manly if women don't respond to them in a fearful, distressed or teary way? If so, how can this be remedied? Should those men be permitted to give women in the workplace a good slapping, in a bid to squeeze a few tears out of them? Would that help to reinstate their sense of having balls of steel? Would it be enough to issue all men who feel castrated by women with a punchbag that has a woman's face drawn on it? Complaints from women about the presence of such punchbags in workplaces could be countered with reference to disability discrimination legislation. eg "I feel disabled by feminism's metaphoric castration of me. The employer providing a punchbag with a woman's face on it is a reasonable adjustment which helps to cater to my disability."
nddb Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 I guess some people are higher maintenance than others, in terms of what they "need" in order to avoid regarding the opposite sex as the enemy In what context are you hearing people complaining? Some people complain as a matter of course; as way of making conversation. They enjoy a good moan, and will buy newspapers like the Daily Mail so that they're well stocked up with things to rant/complain about. Some people are talented in the art of ranting, and can do it in a fairly entertaining way. They'll rant about pretty much anything that takes their fancy or pops into their head. Socially, I don't usually hear men bitching and ranting about feminism. They're more likely to be talking about sport, music, work, tv, films, gossip about friends or foes, any pet project they're currently involved in etc. As far as feminism castrating men goes...what behaviour, by women, do men who fret about women and feminism feel constitutes castrating behaviour?. I've encountered the occasional man, professionally, who sought to bully me by shouting at or saying demeaning things to me. I don't shout back - I'm not an aggressive individual - but I don't burst into tears, and neither will I creep around apologetically or agree submissively with everything an angry man says in an effort to keep the peace. I might ask him why he's shouting. In the case of one boss, I told him to stop relaying his opinion of me as "I don't like you, I don't respect you and your opinion is meaningless to me." Is that the kind of thing you mean? To be fair, the guy was firing me at the time - so I felt justified. Do men who tend towards a bullying approach feel less manly if women don't respond to them in a fearful, distressed or teary way? If so, how can this be remedied? Should those men be permitted to give women in the workplace a good slapping, in a bid to squeeze a few tears out of them? Would that help to reinstate their sense of having balls of steel? Would it be enough to issue all men who feel castrated by women with a punchbag that has a woman's face drawn on it? Complaints from women about the presence of such punchbags in workplaces could be countered with reference to disability discrimination legislation. eg "I feel disabled by feminism's metaphoric castration of me. The employer providing a punchbag with a woman's face on it is a reasonable adjustment which helps to cater to my disability." why so angry and defensive?
Taramere Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 (edited) why so angry and defensive? Brit humour. Sometimes I forget I'm posting on an American board, where everything's deadly serious and any jokes must be highlighted diligently with the use of emoticons. No offence to those of you who are actually capable of having a laugh Edited February 28, 2010 by Taramere
nddb Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Brit humour. Sometimes I forget I'm posting on an American board, where everything's deadly serious and any jokes must be highlighted diligently with the use of emoticons. No offence to those of you who are actually capable of having a laugh Far from a feminist but I don't find talking about slapping and punching women funny. But whatever ...
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