Who is the real Alpha?

[sagetalk]

It's assumptive to state the bolded phrases. Not true.

 

If you consider who really runs the planet Earth, it's primarily alpha males, who don't fit into the sand-kicking bully boy caricature, stated in the opening post.

 

In essence, they're not all dumb jocks who are jerks.

 

After making that statement, I'm curious if you've even read any of this thread . Go back and read it again.

 

There are different types of Alpha males, and I would hope no one would be dumb enough to think jerk, jock alpha males run this planet. What a riot . But they do get more than their fair share of the young attractive ladies, I'll give them that.

[Woggle]

I wish you would!

 

but let me ask you... do you really want to be with those type of women though? that would pick a guy like that? Because believe me, there are a LOT of us out there that would not want that type of guy. Stop thinking that's what ALL women want...

 

The type of women who are attracted to nerds are feminists who hate men so it is one evil or the other. At least the trashy girls will treat a man right is he acts alpha enough.

[Storyrider]

I don't know.

 

The goal is to attract a woman who's right for you, which is not acheived by acting like A or B but acting like yourself.

[tkgirl]

The type of women who are attracted to nerds are feminists who hate men so it is one evil or the other. At least the trashy girls will treat a man right is he acts alpha enough.

 

 

oh god... I give up... you really are hopeless.

[threebyfate]

I don't know.

 

The goal is to attract a woman who's right for you, which is not achieved by acting like A or B but acting like yourself.

No kidding. It really is as simple as that.

 

I could create any version of caricature alpha male, injecting him with a ton of negative traits. I could also create any version of negative caricature loser or as many on LS love to call him, a "nice guy". So what good will that do for anyone?

[PJKino]

Msot women would go for A,they need to see outwards signs of confidence alphaness whatever corny lable u wanna give it..

 

Plus A shows social proof which is important to women..Women want vailidty of their boyfriend from other people..

[EnglishMuffin]

Frankly, neither until they turn out to be a real alpha in a stressful situation that requires a true sense of responsibility and self-control. I'm a first born child who has taken care of my sisters since junior high while my parents are working (and no, it's not illegal in where I grew up), so I have a different measure when it comes to leadership and suchlike.

 

In short, for who is the real alpha, I'll decide until I figure out how both A and B handles work, family and social relationships, emotional needs, etc. I don't like loud people though. Some believe arguing loud is proving themselves but it's quite distasteful.

 

As for whom I'd go for...well, I appreciate beautiful men...but I do have a good understanding of what type of personality gets along with mine. Plus, I like to plan/make decisions mutually...if I sense personality conflict, I lose romantic interests. So I'll go for the guy whose personality traits and life beliefs are compatible to mine...if none works, well, bye bye eye candies...

[Explorer]

There's a major difference between a loud guy and a confident man. There's also a major difference between a wall-flower/loner and a confident man.

 

Not in my example

[Explorer]

Oh please, this is like a rough copy of every typical Hollywood screenplay !

 

You know what I look for the VERY first second I enter the "pool party" ?

 

MY type of guy. Tallish, skinny, angular features and dark hair. Think young Keith Richards.

 

Because this is MY type, and we choose first with our eyes. Then, it's based on conversation and a loudmouth with hangers on doesn't seem like the "interesting conversation" type.

 

Woggles description is jersey shore all the way, and how many woman over 25 really like hair gelled, spray tanned, sterioid dudes ? Strippers and people who call themselves Snookie, maybe....

 

I didn't decribe looks for a reason

[threebyfate]

Not in my example

Your examples are two dimensional men, deliberately set up to sway people towards Mr. Wallflower. Most people are a lot more multi-faceted than that, whereby they have both positive and negative traits.

[Explorer]

No kidding. It really is as simple as that.

 

I could create any version of caricature alpha male, injecting him with a ton of negative traits. I could also create any version of negative caricature loser or as many on LS love to call him, a "nice guy". So what good will that do for anyone?

 

You're missing the point

[Explorer]

Your examples are two dimensional men, deliberately set up to sway people towards Mr. Wallflower. Most people are a lot more multi-faceted than that, whereby they have both positive and negative traits.

 

I wasn't "swaying" people towards anyone.

 

And yes, people are more complicated once you get to know them. This example was two people that you didn't know and observed to have the stated characteristics.

[Sharla]

Say, you're out by a public pool and there's a mix of 30 people around. There's two types of men around (A and B) that grab your attention:

 

Man A: He seems to attract all the attention; he's good looking, funny, loud (Some would say arrogant), sports player - the jock type, has 3 other men following him around (Beta's), and the ladies are very responsive to him.

 

Man B: is off to the back (Observer type), who's also very good-looking, not interested in attracting attention, is respectful to others, has a witty sense of humor, soft-spoken, isn't concerned with having followers (Kind of the loner type), and many would label him the confident but not arrogant type.

 

Man A would be the type to pick on the weak to prove a point.

 

Man B would be the type to sit back, not engage in anyone else's business, but if Man A were to approach Man B in attempts to starting a fight, Man B would kick his arse, without a doubt. But Man B isn't interested in proving himself.

 

Who would you consider the Alpha Male?

 

Ladies, who would grab your attention more?

 

My vote is for Man B.

[SarahRose]

Age 30 and under, she'd try for guy A

 

Over that, guy B

 

Being an old bag at 47, I say who cares? I don't.

[alphamale]

Who would you consider the Alpha Male?

man A cause hes got the chicks

[littlewhiterose]

man A cause hes got the chicks

 

Spoken like a true Alpha male...

[Taramere]

Say, you're out by a public pool and there's a mix of 30 people around. There's two types of men around (A and B) that grab your attention:

 

Man A: He seems to attract all the attention; he's good looking, funny, loud (Some would say arrogant), sports player - the jock type, has 3 other men following him around (Beta's), and the ladies are very responsive to him.

 

I know a few men this description could be applied to, and I tend to think of them as likeable buffoons (if you deduct the part in your description which has such people bullying others - I can't stand that kind of behaviour). They can be entertaining in a group, but when you're alone with them it can be a bit odd. Like they're playing to the gallery - even when there's only you present. I don't tend to connect with men like that on the level I need to connect with a person to be seriously attracted to them. The playing to the gallery, "I'm the alphamale" thing is just too much of a barrier for me to feel emotionally involved.

 

A complete stranger behaving like the one in your description (all noisy, jockish and chest-beating) is just a pain in the neck - regardless of what he looks like, or how desperately any female hangers-on want his cock. Who cares? Noisy groups of strangers are the human equivalent of cars with their windows down, blasting out their crappy taste in music to an indifferent world. I'm usually too busy tuning them out to notice much about them.

 

B is a far more alluring prospect - and no doubt the man most quieter guys would like to see themselves as. He's hard to spot, though. You can't tell, just by looking at a man (or listening to his own self assessment) how much genuine confidence and strength of character he has. It generally takes a bit of time to gauge a person's character and temperament. To see beyond what they want you to see.

[BG1985]

I know a few men this description could be applied to, and I tend to think of them as likeable buffoons (if you deduct the part in your description which has such people bullying others - I can't stand that kind of behaviour). They can be entertaining in a group, but when you're alone with them it can be a bit odd. Like they're playing to the gallery - even when there's only you present. I don't tend to connect with men like that on the level I need to connect with a person to be seriously attracted to them. The playing to the gallery, "I'm the alphamale" thing is just too much of a barrier for me to feel emotionally involved.

 

A complete stranger behaving like the one in your description (all noisy, jockish and chest-beating) is just a pain in the neck - regardless of what he looks like, or how desperately any female hangers-on want his cock. Who cares? Noisy groups of strangers are the human equivalent of cars with their windows down, blasting out their crappy taste in music to an indifferent world. I'm usually too busy tuning them out to notice much about them.

 

B is a far more alluring prospect - and no doubt the man most quieter guys would like to see themselves as. He's hard to spot, though. You can't tell, just by looking at a man (or listening to his own self assessment) how much genuine confidence and strength of character he has. It generally takes a bit of time to gauge a person's character and temperament. To see beyond what they want you to see.

 

The problem with B is that people don't find anything alluring about the guy unless they know him or know something about him. In reality girls tend to find the "lone wolf" guy to be creepy. Since this scene is taking place at a pool, it's assumed that this guy is probably there to stare at girls in their bikinis. Since B is off in the back observing in this scenario, who would notice him anyway?

[nddb]

Kinda a contrived scenario, imho. People aren't like this for the most part...

[threebyfate]

If Mr. Dumb Jock chooses to approach many women, and is capable of making them laugh and relax, statistically, he's going to get more dates.

 

If Mr. Wallflower sits back and never approaches women, only eyeing them up and down, he's going to remain a wallflower for the rest of his life until he can get up the nerve to approach women.

[BG1985]

Kinda a contrived scenario, imho. People aren't like this for the most part...

 

I agree with you. This almost sounds like a movie scene where you have a brooding Brad Pitt, Christian Bale, or any other leading male actor opposite Woody Harrelson who's being a jackass. In real life an attractive, confident man will typically not be a loner. People are naturally drawn to the beautiful, both men and women. When people are off to the side in a social setting where everyone else looks to be having fun, most people may notice the loner and think to themselves, "Hmm, poor guy."

[annxxdisaster]

If Mr. Dumb Jock chooses to approach many women, and is capable of making them laugh and relax, statistically, he's going to get more dates.

 

If Mr. Wallflower sits back and never approaches women, only eyeing them up and down, he's going to remain a wallflower for the rest of his life until he can get up the nerve to approach women.

 

 

Mr. Dumb Jock would be more of an alpha--the goal of being a male, in a primiative biological sense, is the spread the seed around! Alpha males are going to be the ones who get more of the ladies, the followers, and well, be the leader of the pack.

 

I don't think the description goes to say that Mr. Wallflower doesn't know how to make a woman laugh and relax though--just that he is less likely to be making a show of himself. It struck me more as a person who isn't going to apprach every woman, just the right sorts of women that strike his fancy. He's confident enough in himself that he doesn't have trouble talking to anyone or working up the nerve--simply he has nothing to proove to anyone.

 

Personally, I get pretty turned off by any guy with a flock of women following after him or around him. I see that as more of a sign of weakness than the loner sitting in the corner. Also, any time I've had a run in with the Mr. Dumb Jock type, it never was very fun for me. The conversation either was, me feeling like a bitch because they don't understand sarcasam or the conversation just going flat for the same reasons, the only things that matter to them are how many beers they had that night and how many more they'll be having before the night is done, or there is some sort of off color comment made about something (usually racist) and they're serious about it.

 

Mr. Wallflower though, in my own experiences, may be with a group of friends--but you can tell he isn't exactaly like them (even if it is with Mr. Dumb Jock). He is usually witty, can talk more about tits 'n booze, and has more going in their life than getting a business degree and having a liver transplant by the age of 25 (college life, sigh...).

 

 

AHEM. But, I really don't think we can clearly place everyone into catagories like this. Mr. Dumb Jock could also have a lot of other personal issues that only make an alpha a front--deep down on the inside, he could be insecure, burned by women multiple times, and is only using all the fancy antics for a front--same thing with Mr. Wallflower. If only people really were this easy to place into catagories, than life would be so much easier.

[Taramere]

In real life an attractive, confident man will typically not be a loner. People are naturally drawn to the beautiful, both men and women. When people are off to the side in a social setting where everyone else looks to be having fun, most people may notice the loner and think to themselves, "Hmm, poor guy."

 

A person can be perfectly sociable and socially competent, and still be something of a loner. By "loner" I mean a certain self-sufficiency you sense about a person. They can be in a group, and they can be having fun in that group... but they don't lose themselves to the group. They're not owned by it. It's hard to explain, but I know it when I see it.

[BG1985]

A person can be perfectly sociable and socially competent, and still be something of a loner. By "loner" I mean a certain self-sufficiency you sense about a person. They can be in a group, and they can be having fun in that group... but they don't lose themselves to the group. They're not owned by it. It's hard to explain, but I know it when I see it.

 

But the loner in this scenario is off to the side observing rather than part of the group.

[Taramere]

But the loner in this scenario is off to the side observing rather than part of the group.

 

That wasn't how I pictured him, from the description. I pictured more somebody who was a quieter member of the group. What you're describing might also be appealing though...assuming he's a people watcher who uses his observations to increase his insight about human nature.

 

If he's people watching in a bitterly smirking "how come other people get to have all the fun? I wonder how many of them I could bring down with my machete...." sort of way, then obviously that's going to be less appealing.