carhill Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 Women will put up with a lot of crap if they feel they are being understood/appreciated and not taken for granted. That's the cynical view but it's true. Only true if the couple is compatible. IOW, the circumstances you've laid out aren't true for every couple and volumes of stories on LS exemplify it. This methodology works for you and your wife of 20 years. Good on ya As a good female friend once told me, no one knows what really goes on inside a marriage except the two people in that marriage. After being married, I see exactly what she means.
nddb Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 Only true if the couple is compatible. IOW, the circumstances you've laid out aren't true for every couple and volumes of stories on LS exemplify it. This methodology works for you and your wife of 20 years. Good on ya As a good female friend once told me, no one knows what really goes on inside a marriage except the two people in that marriage. After being married, I see exactly what she means. Oh no. I screwed up with many ex-gfs too. Nothing is 100% but I saw patterns Took me a long time to learn that approaches to solving problems at work when a co-worker or boss goes "Let's talk" doesn't apply well to relationships in the past or with my marriage. With my exes or my wife, "We need to talk" usually means "I want to talk and I want to know that you hear and empathize with me. Just shut up, nod your head, make empathetic sounds and you'll be fine. Do that and you earn good points. Start brain-storming or proposing what needs to be done and especially how I contribute to this problem and what I must do to fix it, and you'll be sleeping on the couch." Once I understood that, life became better for all parties.
Author SilkRose Posted February 28, 2010 Author Posted February 28, 2010 No fear here. Conflict + resolution through healthy communication and compromise = intimacy. If a woman uses what I share in such conversations, similar to what I post here on LS, as a weapon or ammunition for some agenda, that's on her. I know where the door is Carhill, you clearly understand the value of communication. Well said! The "we need to talk" phrase is bad. Try not to use it. If you're going to talk to someone, have it become part of the conversation. Why strike fear and dread into someone? The worst thing you can do is to use that phrase, with a future date and time attached to it. It automatically messes with the other person emotionally. Point blank, it's cruel and unnecessary. As for the other two phrases, the men that fear these latter two phrases, just aren't that into or committed to you. When you see fear from the latter two phrases, run like the wind! I think that makes sense, it seems as if a lot of men feel threatened by this phrase because it can lead to some serious criticism, I do actually like to communicate and work things out in a relationship - not just talk and talk so maybe other less 'threatening' language would help the situation. Hmmm. Because when girls say "We need to talk" guys hear "We need to talk because I'm not happy and you need to fix that, so be prepared to hear about it much more starting... now". LOL! Awwwww, shame that that's what some guys hear. Oh, sorry, missed the two latter phrases, one of which was heard from the lady I've been seeing. My response was 'I enjoyed being married and only am interested in long-term committed relationships'. That usually scares most of them away LMAO! Exactly! A guy that would have a problem with talking about his emotions would be one who does not want to reveal his emotions, more than likely because he has none. He is enjoying the ride but that's it. In a relationship where he is equally into you as you are into him, there is no "where do we stand?" talk . You know where you stand by his actions. He will take the lead and you will know where you are. That has been my experience for the most part with men. You have to be smart and know when you are wasting your time and when you are more invested than he is. But some men are sensitive and guard their feelings...? They may not just be along for the ride. because men generally are uncomfortable talking about feelings and emotions... Why do you think that is Alpha? "We need to talk." Almost always means "I have something to say about you that you won't like." Automatically puts the other person in a defensive position which is NOT conducive to working out problems.. "we need to talk" Has been the intro for a break up, bitch session, drama meltdown over something silly & the worst ever. My Mom is coming to stay with us for a little bit. Yeah, those words when next said to me again will probably strike fear in my heart. just look for the building with the Phineas shaped hole in the wall. LOL! LOL! Those words from a guy would scare me! His Mother coming to stay. Lol! When I've heard that in the past, my response has been 'yes, I've been thinking for awhile that we need to talk and am happy you brought it up. What's on your mind?' Awwwww Carhill. I hope to hear these words one day! I am a woman and those words scare the heck out of me. I never used them on any guy and it sends chills down my spine when someone says them to me. I equate it with "you are in trouble". That's what my parents would say to me when I was in trouble. These phrases don't say anything... they just introduce something, and when you say it like that, it seems like that something that you're preparing the ground for is significant and you're thinking he's probably not going to take it very well. I think it's best to avoid having to use these phrases. Better to maintain communication throughout (little digestible bits at a time), so you don't have to be in situation where you have to surprise him with something momentuous that he didn't see coming. We need to talk means usually either 1) We're breaking up or 2) You're in trouble and I'm really pissed off at you at the moment. Wow, 'we need to talk' seems like a very scary phrases for people... It doesn't scare me because I like to communicate and work things out but I do see how it would scare someone. Because men are dumb and we are trained to actually listen to the words and analyze it when someone speaks. But in a relationship, 90% of the time, the guys need to realize that they need to listen to the feelings behind the words. Find out what feeling drives her complaint, and acknowledge that feeling, be emotionally supportive of the way she feels (not agreeing with it necessarily but openly acknowledging that she's not wrong for feeling it) and you are home free for a while. Women will put up with a lot of crap if they feel they are being understood/appreciated and not taken for granted. That's the cynical view but it's true. Sometimes, the problem is real and needs fixing, but even then, being emotionally supportive and being a good listener and acknowledging (instead of marginalizing) her feelings will buy all kind of time to get the problem fixed or before one has to bail (cynical view--if it's not a problem that can be fixed or if fixing it is not in the plan). Yep the feelings behind the words are the issue too. Well put! Someone once told that it's better to intro with, ".........I'm concerned about something........." or "I was wondering about something..." So you don't get the knee-jerk defensive reaction from the overused, "we need to talk......." I like that phrase. If your boss said to you, "We need to talk," wouldn't that make you go: I would be curious. Oh no. I screwed up with many ex-gfs too. Nothing is 100% but I saw patterns Took me a long time to learn that approaches to solving problems at work when a co-worker or boss goes "Let's talk" doesn't apply well to relationships in the past or with my marriage. With my exes or my wife, "We need to talk" usually means "I want to talk and I want to know that you hear and empathize with me. Just shut up, nod your head, make empathetic sounds and you'll be fine. Do that and you earn good points. Start brain-storming or proposing what needs to be done and especially how I contribute to this problem and what I must do to fix it, and you'll be sleeping on the couch." Once I understood that, life became better for all parties. Didn't you want to be with someone who you could talk too? Rather than someone who just wanted to vent? Ok another question for everyone, when is the best time to talk about relationship issues/concerns? I have heard that men are much more relaxed after sex and in my experience, this is true. The tension just seems to be gone and the guy seems to be able to talk freely. Either that or in general conversation...conversation that isn't proceeded by 'We need to talk'.
Kamille Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 I agree that "I need to talk" carries a lot of weight and might make some people feel "in trouble". That being said, I think it all depends on how partners communicate in a relationship. When I raise an issue, I try my best to let bf know that I'm raising the issue because I want to hear his side of things. I also don't look to change his behavior or blame him, but rather to find a compromise. And once the conversation is done, I thank him for hearing me out. This means that bf knows he won't be stuck being shamed and blamed. This makes communicating issues way easier in the long term. Ok another question for everyone, when is the best time to talk about relationship issues/concerns? I have heard that men are much more relaxed after sex and in my experience, this is true. The tension just seems to be gone and the guy seems to be able to talk freely. Either that or in general conversation...conversation that isn't proceeded by 'We need to talk'. After sex? Not for me! After sex is for cuddling and feeling close. And napping. We've talked about issues at various meal times when we are both relaxed.
lino Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 In my life, women have only ever said the words 'We need to talk' before they dumped me. I definitely don't like hearing those words.
ADF Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 My theory is that men fear words like this because they are often at cross purposes with the women they are involved with. Women usually--with occasional excpetions--want a relationship to "go somewhere." That is, they expect it to deepen over time, with a monogamous, commited, LTR as the ultimate goal. Many, many men don't think that way. To many men--I want to say most men--the commited LTR is not the best of all possible worlds. To men, FWB is the best of all possible worlds. In a FWB relationship, a man gets all the benefits of having a GF, but shoulders none of the obligations of a real relationship--the ultimate win/win scenario for him. Many men would like to just "hang out" with a woman forever, making no firm commitments, feeling free to walk away at any time. Questions about where the relationship is going feels to them like their freedom is being taken away.
bananaboat11 Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Those phrases came from me once in the beginning of an LTR... let's just say... I got jumped by her for using them. Kind of shocked me. But we were sooo happy together at the time. wow, i miss having healthy relationships
monkey00 Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 It seems as it the phrases "we need to talk" and "where is this going", even "what do you want from me/this relationship" strike fear into the hearts of so many men. A male workmate explained that when he's asked to discuss his emotions it make him feel very vulnerable, as if his girlfriend could hurt him severely. What's going on? Why do these phrases create so much fear for men (obviously not all men) but a lot of men??? And how can a kind well-meaning girlfriend ask these kinds of questions without creating fear. Answers from everyone are welcome. I think it would all depend on the course of events occurring. If you're already in a monogamous exclusive relationship then it would be implying some kind of expectations on your end or needs that aren't being met by your SO...which would mean having the guy to open up. Not every guy is in touch with their feelings. If you're just dating, it would imply getting tied down to monogamy as others have already stated. And not every guy is ready to be tied down.
nddb Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Didn't you want to be with someone who you could talk too? Rather than someone who just wanted to vent? Yep. But to me, "We need to talk" signals "something's been eating at me, I feel peeved, and I am about to unload it so brace yourself." Hardly conducive for rational, light-hearted and cooperative discussion of the type that leads to brainstorming and solutions. Decisions made when one is peeved and letting off steam and one is under pressure and feel defensive are usually not the best ones. I'll wait until some of the pressure is let off, and approach again another day when the moment is right "say, you were talking about XXX the other day and I've been thinking about it. I'm glad you brought it up. How about YYY or ZZZ?" That way, I both let her express her feelings and expend some of that pent-up piss-off thing that she's been storing up, and also have some time to think about it and approach it later. She also feels (I think) that I'm taking her issues seriously by thinking about it offline. A lot of times though, letting her talk is all that's needed. Some issues don't have solutions because of resource constraints and what-have-yous. But letting her express her concerns, fears, and letting her know that I'm with her on it is all that's needed.
engravefeelthevoid Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 last time I heared this she broke up with me the next day
Devil Dog Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 Why do men fear the words "We need to talk..." Because the last time a woman used those words, it was right before she broke up with me.
skydiveaddict Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 The "we need to talk" speech is a one way ride into the "friendzone"
lordWilhelm Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 So from the responses we're getting, it seems to me that most people associate the "we need to talk phrase" with something that's about to happen. You probably don't want the guy to get defensive, so all in all, it would be wiser to find a more constructive way of introducing the problem that doesn't tense him up quite to the same extent.
Vertex Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 I am utterly shocked that nobody has mentioned the relevant Chappelle skit yet. 1:00+
alphamale Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 So from the responses we're getting, it seems to me that most people associate the "we need to talk phrase" with something that's about to happen. You probably don't want the guy to get defensive, so all in all, it would be wiser to find a more constructive way of introducing the problem that doesn't tense him up quite to the same extent. something to the effect of the girl saying: "Hey lets talk right now about how you aren't taking the garbage out...i think that is the mans job, i do everything inside the house like cleaning, washing, cooking and you are such a chowder-head that you can't even take out the garbage. In addition i want you to stop smoking crack and hanging out with your friends. And no more drinking. You are to focus all your attention on me from now on and do everything i say otherwise i'm going to leave your sorry ass for your best friend Jeff. Take out the garbage right now you %^$*&$"
mammax3 Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 Men also know that when we show our emotions women will use them against us so we bottle them up. What does this mean? How are the emotions used against the man some time later?
mammax3 Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 When I raise an issue, I try my best to let bf know that I'm raising the issue because I want to hear his side of things. I also don't look to change his behavior or blame him, but rather to find a compromise. And once the conversation is done, I thank him for hearing me out. This means that bf knows he won't be stuck being shamed and blamed. This makes communicating issues way easier in the long term. I'm curious about this statement too: shamed and blamed. What do you mean? How would someone take whatever follows "we have to talk" as shaming or blaming? tx
Art_Critic Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 Because what it usually means is that he sits there and listens while she chews him up and tells him what a horrible guy he is while reciting every slightest fault he has. Because "We need to talk" is usually followed by "I don't want to date you anymore". It's like if a woman asked a guy if he thought she was fat and he answered, "Yeah, well about that...." what comes next is not going to be very fun to hear. Because when girls say "We need to talk" guys hear "We need to talk because I'm not happy and you need to fix that, so be prepared to hear about it much more starting... now". because men generally are uncomfortable talking about feelings and emotions... "We need to talk." Almost always means "I have something to say about you that you won't like." Automatically puts the other person in a defensive position which is NOT conducive to working out problems.. "we need to talk" Has been the intro for a break up, bitch session, drama meltdown over something silly & the worst ever. My Mom is coming to stay with us for a little bit. Yeah, those words when next said to me again will probably strike fear in my heart. just look for the building with the Phineas shaped hole in the wall. LOL! All true....While the phrase can take on a different look it still means the same in the end..
EarthSea Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 Hi Silk..you asked: And how can a kind well-meaning girlfriend ask these kinds of questions without creating fear. Me thinks if your relationship is destined to grow into something really meaningful, your BF has got to risk swimming in the deep end. Some dudes are breed to feel goofy about talking emotion, but ultimately knowing your "relationship direction" and getting some kind of real affirmation is critical. Tell him how important this is to you...hopefully he can force himself to go there. It gets easier after that. If not, sadly - it may mean that you would be better off finding a man that can express his emotions??? You deserve that!
Author SilkRose Posted March 1, 2010 Author Posted March 1, 2010 Hi Silk..you asked: And how can a kind well-meaning girlfriend ask these kinds of questions without creating fear. Me thinks if your relationship is destined to grow into something really meaningful, your BF has got to risk swimming in the deep end. Some dudes are breed to feel goofy about talking emotion, but ultimately knowing your "relationship direction" and getting some kind of real affirmation is critical. Tell him how important this is to you...hopefully he can force himself to go there. It gets easier after that. If not, sadly - it may mean that you would be better off finding a man that can express his emotions??? You deserve that! So so true! That's the point I have reached! A healthy relationship is based on a foundation of communication, without it...there is nothing. And I'm not the 'big bad wolf', am not looking to control or manipulate or use someone's thoughts and feelings against them some day in the future. I just think that there should be a dialogue otherwise, like you said...I shouldn't be in that relationship at all. It's a risk for me to express my emotions, it leaves me emotionally vulnerable but it is worth it...within a meaningful loving relationship.
Author SilkRose Posted March 1, 2010 Author Posted March 1, 2010 My theory is that men fear words like this because they are often at cross purposes with the women they are involved with. Women usually--with occasional excpetions--want a relationship to "go somewhere." That is, they expect it to deepen over time, with a monogamous, commited, LTR as the ultimate goal. Many, many men don't think that way. To many men--I want to say most men--the commited LTR is not the best of all possible worlds. To men, FWB is the best of all possible worlds. In a FWB relationship, a man gets all the benefits of having a GF, but shoulders none of the obligations of a real relationship--the ultimate win/win scenario for him. Many men would like to just "hang out" with a woman forever, making no firm commitments, feeling free to walk away at any time. Questions about where the relationship is going feels to them like their freedom is being taken away. I see your point but men are as varied and different as women. It just seems like people should pair themselves with people who want the same thing, whether its FWB, LTR or whatever else. We all go through different phases in life and want different things. I think that men are much more complex than simply being satisifed with FBW all the time, I think it depends on the man and what he wants at the time in his life.
counterman Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 "We need to talk" - Exact same words I heard leading up to my break-up. She said it with a passion too, a fiery anger.
Barky Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 I'd say men are less "afraid" of the phrase than "annoyed/irritated" by it. It's basically code for, "I am going to throw a tantrum now."
ADF Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 What does this mean? How are the emotions used against the man some time later? There are many women--not all, by any means--who interpret male expressions of anger or frustration as threatening. Any man who gets upset is seen a potential batterer, even if he has never touched anyone.
stillafool Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 My theory is that men fear words like this because they are often at cross purposes with the women they are involved with. Women usually--with occasional excpetions--want a relationship to "go somewhere." That is, they expect it to deepen over time, with a monogamous, commited, LTR as the ultimate goal. Many, many men don't think that way. To many men--I want to say most men--the commited LTR is not the best of all possible worlds. To men, FWB is the best of all possible worlds. In a FWB relationship, a man gets all the benefits of having a GF, but shoulders none of the obligations of a real relationship--the ultimate win/win scenario for him. Many men would like to just "hang out" with a woman forever, making no firm commitments, feeling free to walk away at any time. Questions about where the relationship is going feels to them like their freedom is being taken away. Well I was in a relationship and felt this way and the guy dumped me after a while. Why didn't he realize he was in the "ultimate" scenario. He even said at first "I liked it" but after a while he says he thought "wait a minute?!"
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