spinster Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 I believe that most women subscribe to the third one. Well then maybe you should stop going after "most women".
carhill Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 The real disappointment for me is seeing so many women participating in behaviors long decried in men by most women, as well as men like myself, who saw such behaviors (I'll use 'using women/womanizing' and 'infidelity' as two examples) as disrespectful and unhealthy. Now that equality is gaining a foothold in the workplace and social politics, it seems so many women have gone off to imitate and, in some cases, surmount, the historically stereotypically 'bad' behaviors of men. Perhaps they always did, but it sure seems more visible now, sorry to say.
The Paper Knight Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Now that equality is gaining a foothold in the workplace and social politics, it seems so many women have gone off to imitate and, in some cases, surmount, the historically stereotypically 'bad' behaviors of men. Perhaps they always did, but it sure seems more visible now, sorry to say. Haven't you read the Old Testament? Eve gave Adam the apple.
carhill Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Genesis 3 introduces the Serpent, "slier than every beast of the field." The serpent tempts the woman to eat from the tree of knowledge, telling her that it will not lead to death; she succumbs, and gives the fruit to the man, who eats also, "and the eyes of the two of them were opened." Aware now of their nakedness, they make coverings of fig leaves, and hide from the sight of God. God asks them about what they have done. Adam blames Eve, and Eve blames the serpent. Interesting. Yeah, it's been awhile...
The Paper Knight Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Based more on men saying women are evil temptresses. Quite the contrary, as we have the choice to fall for lust should it present itself. Unfortunately I myself have fallen many a times to the lure of lust and only now do I realize that I have caused my own suffering.
spinster Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Haven't you read the Old Testament? Eve gave Adam the apple."Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God say, 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden'?" And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'" But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate." Eve was trying to do a good thing. Maybe naive, but hell, she was literally just born yesterday. Blame the serpent who ****ed her over.
The Paper Knight Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 "Adam blames Eve, and Eve blames the serpent." Well found carhill, that pretty much somes up most of the rhetoric on LS.
tami-chan Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 with apologies to Woggle: I wanted to see how his OP would come off if I changed some words... If you look around it is obvious that certain men just make better husbands and partners than others. They are less likely to cheat, become walkaway husbands and are also less likely to grow to resent their women for whatever reason. Women want to maximize the odds that we will have a happy marriage that lasts because we have seen so many of our peers go through nasty divorces or end up in marriages where their husbands seem to hate them. Why is it that these women are called sexist, misandrists and closed minded for simply wanting to avoid the drama that goes with picking the wrong man? Isn't it perfectly logical for somebody to want to maxmize their odds of having a successful relationship?hmmmm....
spinster Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 If men and women were to realize that they both have a common enemy (the symbolic "serpent", and not the opposite gender), we might all get along a bit better. tree of knowledge = insecurities = one crappy birthright. Frustrating, but that's just how it is.
Author Woggle Posted February 25, 2010 Author Posted February 25, 2010 with apologies to Woggle: I wanted to see how his OP would come off if I changed some words... hmmmm.... It doesn't make sense because women for the most part do not have to worry about these things.
tami-chan Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 It doesn't make sense because women for the most part do not have to worry about these things. it makes sense to me... I worry about those things.
carhill Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 It doesn't make sense because women for the most part do not have to worry about these things. Also, in line with the thread title, discriminating and healthy men agree with and support women in being discriminating in their selection of a mate and wanting to protect themselves. If women prefer a high numbers, experienced, wealthy, good-looking alpha male, I say hop to it. Just don't harass me as you blow on by. Thanks.
txsilkysmoothe Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 It doesn't make sense because women for the most part do not have to worry about these things. "I" do worry about those things. I worry that I will meet a man, fall hard for him, marry him, and then he changes. My greatest fear is he will cheat on me - that would absolutely kill me. I also worry that he will emotionally withdraw, be irritable all the time, not come home or just decide he doesn't want to be married one day. I think we all worry about those things that will hurt us the most, but are out of our control.
The Paper Knight Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 If men and women were to realize that they both have a common enemy (the symbolic "serpent", and not the opposite gender), we might all get along a bit better. tree of knowledge = insecurities = one crappy birthright. Frustrating, but that's just how it is. I agree. Human nature is tightly bound in sin and we must first free ourselves of those sins before we can be true to ourselves and to others. We let ourselves get induced by lust, greed and delusion which in turn cause us suffering.
calazhage Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) There are no absolutes, however... I would feel much more comfortable making a life long committment with a woman who needed to be in love before she had sex.. Why? Attractive women are hit on several times a day. If they can disconnect feelings and sex, I feel they would be much more likely to cheat. Or should I just trust their word that NOW since they are with me, they will decide to become a different person and only have sex that is connected to love? Once again, this is not ALWAYS the case, but I would feel far more comfortable and secure. For men it is quite different..99% of men must be the pursuer. If they had many partners in the past, they accomplished this by pursuing, putting in time and effort etc. It is easy to stop pursuing. I will be far more productive and fullfilled knowing I can finally stop pursuing. Now, if a woman marries a man who is in the other 1% (Men that have the same amount of options as women sexually), chances are he will have women throwing themselves at him day and night, and he would be much more likely to cheat. I have no sympathy for women who seek out and marry rock stars, pro athletes, CEO's, etc. Edited February 25, 2010 by calazhage
Lizzie60 Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Haven't you read the Old Testament? Eve gave Adam the apple. Were you there???
Author Woggle Posted February 25, 2010 Author Posted February 25, 2010 Please do not bring biblical stuff into my thread people.
Jersey Shortie Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Now, if a woman marries a man who is in the other 1% (Men that have the same amount of options as women sexually), chances are he will have women throwing themselves at him day and night, and he would be much more likely to cheat. I have no sympathy for women who seek out and marry rock stars, pro athletes, CEO's, etc. I'm sorry but by status of your job alone, you don't get a free pass to cheat just because it might be easier. It doesn't matter if your a janitor or a pro athlete, if you personally make a commitment to someone, YOU made that commitment. It is their responsiblitly to live up to the standards they told their partners they would. Lets just look at Tiger Woods. I am so SICK of hearing men say like "she deserved it" or "what did she expect". As if he gets a free pass just because he has more oppurtunity. No. HE committed to the relationship. Just because you have alot of money and oppurtunity doesn't mean a person will or should behave like a dirt bag. I think the real issue here is with insecure men who don't make as much as these men feeling bitter that they get hot women and wanting to hypocrtically put these women down for no reason at all. By the way, I doubt these rich women, married to richer men, care to have our peon sympathy anyway.
Author Woggle Posted February 25, 2010 Author Posted February 25, 2010 I'm sorry but by status of your job alone, you don't get a free pass to cheat just because it might be easier. It doesn't matter if your a janitor or a pro athlete, if you personally make a commitment to someone, YOU made that commitment. It is their responsiblitly to live up to the standards they told their partners they would. Lets just look at Tiger Woods. I am so SICK of hearing men say like "she deserved it" or "what did she expect". As if he gets a free pass just because he has more oppurtunity. No. HE committed to the relationship. Just because you have alot of money and oppurtunity doesn't mean a person will or should behave like a dirt bag. I think the real issue here is with insecure men who don't make as much as these men feeling bitter that they get hot women and wanting to hypocrtically put these women down for no reason at all. By the way, I doubt these rich women, married to richer men, care to have our peon sympathy anyway. This I agree with. Being rich and powerful does not give somebody the right to cheat. There are plenty of male celebrities that are good and faithful husbands but the media never likes to talk about them. I don't have any sympathy though for women that chase bad boys and then end up getting burnt.
soulm8 Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 Men want to maximize the odds that we will have a happy marriage that lasts because we have seen so many of our peers go through nasty divorces or end up in marriages where their wives seem to hate them. Why is it that these men are called sexist, misogynistic and closed minded for simply wanting to avoid the drama that goes with picking the wrong woman? Isn't it perfectly logical for somebody to want to maxmize their odds of having a successful relationship? Yes, it is perfectly logical and certainly weeds out the bad apples! May the best woman pass your tests!
stillafool Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 We can tell the difference between the two scenarios above, but the thing is, that it just doesn't matter ==> the final outcome will be the same: the insecure girl will cheat as soon as she feels "down", and the "free spirit" will free-spirit herself away as soon as she begins to feel that she "needs to find herself" (or whatever ). So, regardless of the primary drivers/motivators, past promisquity is perfectly valid reason for concern, and not a bad decision rule. Certainly not the only one, but a pretty important one. I don't think a "free spirit" is trying to find herself as much as she is curious about life and all things (not just men) and want to experience them. Just because a woman is a "free spirit" does not mean she is promiscuous.
stillafool Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 It does seem that's what's happening. From my experience it seems like a lot of women are just going "off the reservation" sexually, as in many partners or experimenting with both sexes at random, etc. I hate to say it but men can blame themselves for this also. Men have gone on and on about what a turn on it is to see two women having sex and whala - "It's happening all over the place" - Are you happy men? Men always complained that they spent "good money" on dates and the woman would not put out, well whala - "Women are giving it up like crazy" - Are you happy men? You asked for it and now you have it. Enjoy!
calazhage Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 Men always complained that they spent "good money" on dates and the woman would not put out, well whala - "Women are giving it up like crazy" - Are you happy men? You asked for it and now you have it. Enjoy! We are enjoying it.. Many of us are just not choosing to marry those women..
The Paper Knight Posted February 27, 2010 Posted February 27, 2010 Please do not bring biblical stuff into my thread people. I was just trying to document that the nature of humans has not changed much over time and we are all still scratching our heads over the opposite sex. -amen
sally4sara Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 We are enjoying it.. Many of us are just not choosing to marry those women.. Its funny how you pretend this is the reason why you're not married.
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