Double Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) I've been dating this guy for a little bit now, but I'm starting to get a little wary and am having a hard time (those damn pheromones!) determining if this is a big deal or not. I'm all about avoiding drama myself, so I get where he's coming from, and initially it was definitely something I liked about him. I love that there are no "high highs" or "low lows" with this guy, it's always just even keel. My concern arises because: Basically he says that he's "too old to deal with crap." Which is great. I don't want to "deal with crap" either, and that was actually one reason my last relationship ended. There was too much "crap." However, I've noticed that this guy, at the first HINT of "crap" coming up, overreacts - I mean, his reaction is anger, rather than "let's calmly discuss this." I feel like he takes something I'd like to discuss and turns it into a mini fight, and makes the issue into something that was not the original issue (for me). One night (drinking was involved), I actually did mess up - for sure, any guy, bf or not, would have a right to be angry (no, it was not cheating) about what I did. However, he also did a couple things that night that any girl would have a right to be angry about. The next day, when we were sober, I brought up that he should never again do XYZ. I expected an apology and an agreement that he messed up and wouldn't do it again. Instead, what I got was an angry "yeah, well don't ever do X again." Which is fine and within his right, but there was no discussion about my issue, AND when I realized how I screwed up, and apologized and so on, he TOTALLY BLEW IT OFF. He was basically like, well whatever, it's not a big deal, I wouldn't break up with you over it (I agree it was a mistake, but not that big of a deal). He left me feeling like there's not much room for discussion about "issues". Kind of like, there's no need to ever discuss anything, either dump the person or never ever say a word about it. (I asked him about the particular mistake I made, and he pretty much said he didn't say anything until I did because he wasn't going to break up with me over it.) Since then, I've found myself wanting to pick fights with him. Help! Edited February 23, 2010 by Double
Author Double Posted February 23, 2010 Author Posted February 23, 2010 I'll also throw in that there is never any kind of grudge held over things (including my mess up). It's like, he angrily says his piece in response to me, and then is over it, no sulking or residual anger or anything like that.
sumdude Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 Ironic that he 'doesn't want drama' yet seems to have a little penchant for it himself.. dontcha think?
Author Double Posted February 23, 2010 Author Posted February 23, 2010 Ironic that he 'doesn't want drama' yet seems to have a little penchant for it himself.. dontcha think? Trust me, that has occurred to me. These little blow-ups are very short-lived, sometimes giving me the impression that his anger is almost contrived, in order to avoid being responsible for some action. He's always very quick to make up. I've tried seeing things from his side (imagine things from his side, since he doesn't really "discuss" anything calmly), and I don't think he understands that he's taking something I say and blowing it way out of proportion....but I'm getting really annoyed at how this makes me feel like I either can't say anything, or I have to bring it up and phrase everything very carefully...and even if I do, then he still might be like ew, why is she creating drama.
St. Nick Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 He blows up like that cuz he knows you'll keep nagging about it if he acts chill. He gets it all out quick and then throws away the issue. He's smart. His actions actually prevent drama from droning on into a long, drawnout mess. It doesn't mean he doesn't like you. It means he doesn't want to play any games.
Author Double Posted February 24, 2010 Author Posted February 24, 2010 He blows up like that cuz he knows you'll keep nagging about it if he acts chill. He gets it all out quick and then throws away the issue. He's smart. His actions actually prevent drama from droning on into a long, drawnout mess. It doesn't mean he doesn't like you. It means he doesn't want to play any games. Can you clarify what you're talking about a bit? If you're saying what I think you're saying, I have to disagree, but I may be wrong. It's rude of you to assume that I would "keep nagging" him about something if he acts chill. Once an issue is discussed, I don't see the need to ever bring it up again, assuming it actually got resolved in the first place. The problem is that he doesn't "get it all out quick." That implies that something actually got discussed. When one person blows up in anger when another person wants to talk about something, means that nothing actually gets talked about. He turns things into fights that don't have to be fights. To me, it seems that he "doesn't want to play games" translates to he "doesn't want to communicate." The problem is getting compounded by my new found desire to pick fights over small things that don't matter in some twisted effort to see if he can actually freaking talk about something. Yes, I realize that this doesn't make any sense and I need to not do it.
St. Nick Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 Can you clarify what you're talking about a bit? If you're saying what I think you're saying, I have to disagree, but I may be wrong. It's rude of you to assume that I would "keep nagging" him about something if he acts chill. Once an issue is discussed, I don't see the need to ever bring it up again, assuming it actually got resolved in the first place. The problem is that he doesn't "get it all out quick." That implies that something actually got discussed. When one person blows up in anger when another person wants to talk about something, means that nothing actually gets talked about. He turns things into fights that don't have to be fights. To me, it seems that he "doesn't want to play games" translates to he "doesn't want to communicate." The problem is getting compounded by my new found desire to pick fights over small things that don't matter in some twisted effort to see if he can actually freaking talk about something. Yes, I realize that this doesn't make any sense and I need to not do it. You just exposed yourself. You pick fights over small things just to see his reaction. That's the definition of starting drama. Once again, he's smart. He knows that's what you're all about and he cuts it down like a samurai on holiday. I don't know the dude but I already respect his tactics. Have you actually asked him about this? Or did you simply say, "What are you thinking?"? Why do you have a desire to pick fights over small things? How old are you? 12?
Ruby Slippers Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 Ironic that he 'doesn't want drama' yet seems to have a little penchant for it himself.. dontcha think? Totally what I was thinking. As for the not admitting he's wrong about something until you do, that is basic human nature. To be a good communicator, it's always a good strategy to admit your own mistakes first. If you do this, the other person immediately feels understood, rather than feeling attacked and having to jump to their own defense. If you approach with humility and acknowledgement of your own mistakes, a well-adjusted person will usually accept your apology while sympathizing with you, then apologize for their own mistakes. It all boils down to the idea of treating others as you want to be treated. Wouldn't you love it if he came to you with an apology first, without any demands that you do the same? Then show some love and do that for him.
Author Double Posted February 24, 2010 Author Posted February 24, 2010 You just exposed yourself. You pick fights over small things just to see his reaction. That's the definition of starting drama. Once again, he's smart. He knows that's what you're all about and he cuts it down like a samurai on holiday. I don't know the dude but I already respect his tactics. Have you actually asked him about this? Or did you simply say, "What are you thinking?"? Why do you have a desire to pick fights over small things? How old are you? 12? St. Nick, you're not reading very closely. I very clearly stated that this desire to pick fights over little things was "new found" (in other words, not something I have ever done before in our relationship), and that I realize I need to not do that. Meaning I don't actually pick fights over little things. I simply find myself wanting to.
Author Double Posted February 24, 2010 Author Posted February 24, 2010 Totally what I was thinking. As for the not admitting he's wrong about something until you do, that is basic human nature. To be a good communicator, it's always a good strategy to admit your own mistakes first. If you do this, the other person immediately feels understood, rather than feeling attacked and having to jump to their own defense. If you approach with humility and acknowledgement of your own mistakes, a well-adjusted person will usually accept your apology while sympathizing with you, then apologize for their own mistakes. It all boils down to the idea of treating others as you want to be treated. Wouldn't you love it if he came to you with an apology first, without any demands that you do the same? Then show some love and do that for him. Ruby, I definitely get what you're saying; in the particular example I gave where that one night we both did dumb things, I really didn't think I did anything dumb until he said he was mad about it. Then I could definitely see his side and apologized and everything; the issue at hand really wasn't something that everyone would get bent out of shape about. I do think in that instance I made a mistake, but the fact that not everyone would get mad about it (it definitely isn't one of those things that's either right or wrong) kind of made me feel that he only said anything because he understandably could be mad about it, and he wanted to divert my anger over something that definitely was a "it's wrong no matter who you are" issue. Am I making sense? I'm really struggling here My whole "issue" here that I'm trying to clearly explain (and failing) in this thread, is that this attitude of his is throwing me off in so many ways. Going back to the mistake I made that he didn't say a word about until I was mad about something. It was something that some guys would be annoyed about, and others wouldn't. He struck me as the kind that wouldn't be annoyed (for various reasons, including that he was egging me on at the time). So I had no idea he would have a problem until I brought up my own issue with him - then he finally mentioned it. So now I have to wonder, if he ever really has an issue with me that should be talked about, but isn't worth breaking up over, will he ever actually say something to me??? And then he makes me feel like I'm not supposed to say anything either, if I'm not going to break up over it, since otherwise it's "crap". See what I'm saying??? It's a communication thing, that he seems to write off by calling it "drama."
St. Nick Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 St. Nick, you're not reading very closely. I very clearly stated that this desire to pick fights over little things was "new found" (in other words, not something I have ever done before in our relationship), and that I realize I need to not do that. Meaning I don't actually pick fights over little things. I simply find myself wanting to. Gimme some more details about your relationship: 1. What type of crap pops up that makes him overreact? Some examples please. 2. What kinda crap ended yer last relationship? 3. Have you talked to him about his behavior? 4. When you want to talk, how do you approach him? What do you say? 5. Don't you think it's possible that like you, who apparently never had the desire to start fights before you met him, he never had the desire to start fights before he met you?
hats Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 Ruby, I definitely get what you're saying; in the particular example I gave where that one night we both did dumb things, I really didn't think I did anything dumb until he said he was mad about it. Then I could definitely see his side and apologized and everything; the issue at hand really wasn't something that everyone would get bent out of shape about. I do think in that instance I made a mistake, but the fact that not everyone would get mad about it (it definitely isn't one of those things that's either right or wrong) kind of made me feel that he only said anything because he understandably could be mad about it, and he wanted to divert my anger over something that definitely was a "it's wrong no matter who you are" issue. Am I making sense? I'm really struggling here My whole "issue" here that I'm trying to clearly explain (and failing) in this thread, is that this attitude of his is throwing me off in so many ways. Going back to the mistake I made that he didn't say a word about until I was mad about something. It was something that some guys would be annoyed about, and others wouldn't. He struck me as the kind that wouldn't be annoyed (for various reasons, including that he was egging me on at the time). So I had no idea he would have a problem until I brought up my own issue with him - then he finally mentioned it. So now I have to wonder, if he ever really has an issue with me that should be talked about, but isn't worth breaking up over, will he ever actually say something to me??? And then he makes me feel like I'm not supposed to say anything either, if I'm not going to break up over it, since otherwise it's "crap". See what I'm saying??? It's a communication thing, that he seems to write off by calling it "drama." I don't think he was purposely deflecting. It sounds like he's just very conflict averse. So he probably really was bothered by whatever he brought up but didn't bring it up because he wanted to avoid conflict. And then when you brought up your complaint he figured it's too late to avoid conflict anyway so he might as well bring up his complaint. So to answer you question, no he probably won't ever say anything, unless you guys are already arguing.
spinster Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 Perhaps he is afraid of you being a "nagger" due to some past experiences with women. Maybe he is afraid of being "in trouble" with you all the time, because someone made him feel that way. Just a guess.
Author Double Posted February 24, 2010 Author Posted February 24, 2010 Gimme some more details about your relationship: 1. What type of crap pops up that makes him overreact? Some examples please. Me getting angry because he lied to me about hanging out with his "friend" mostly (who is actually his ex). 2. What kinda crap ended yer last relationship? Ex would scream at me/pick fights over the most retarded things, such as: My male cousin (whom he knew) who had a different last name than me would write on my FB wall a "hey what's up" type message, or an inside joke. Ex said other people might see it and think bad things.If I signed up for a beer pong tournament at a bar with a girl friend as a partner, it meant that I was trying to find another guy to **** (though ex signed up for the same, and apparently for him it only meant he wanted a chance at the awesome 1st place prize).Me getting angry that my ex told me I wasn't allowed to go out with him and his friends (that included mostly other girls) for his birthday.The fact that my PT job happened to employ guys/men (who actually didn't even work in the same room as me, and I never even met, except for once when one guy came to my desk asking if my boss, who wasn't in that day, had left him a package he was expecting) meant that I spent all my time at work flirting with the other guys there.The fact that I questioned his relationship with another girl because my ex lied to me about a girl he worked with when he was home on breaks, but "wasn't friends with" called and texted him every single day that he was away at school.And so on. 3. Have you talked to him about his behavior? Not really, he makes me feel like I can't. I once said something to him about how if we were going to get serious I needed to know that we could calmly discuss and work out issues like adults, and he blew it off. I didn't press the issue. Part of the reason I started this thread is to see if anyone had any ideas on what's going on here, and/or how to discuss this with him. 4. When you want to talk, how do you approach him? What do you say? I approach him very conversationally. I don't attack, or make accusations. I might say something like "I saw XYZ and was wondering if you could tell me more about it" or "When you did XYZ I felt ABC." On one occasion I did say something inflammatory to him and then blow up at him when he asked me what I was talking about. (I was pissed because he lied to me.) 5. Don't you think it's possible that like you, who apparently never had the desire to start fights before you met him, he never had the desire to start fights before he met you? I suppose anything is possible I do know from talking to him that the only 3 real relationships he had in his adult life were filled with drama and fighting. To hear him tell it, it was all the girls he dated. Now I'm not so sure. It's kind of weird, because he can talk for 30 minutes about what a trial it was to date one girl, and when I make a comment (trying to sound sympathetic) like "she sounds a little high maintenance" he'll spend the next 15 minutes defending her and disagreeing with me that she's high maintenance.
Ruby Slippers Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 If he expects to have a good relationship with no disagreements ever, he's SOL and is going to have a lonely life. Unfortunately, some people (men especially, it seems) are so afraid of being truly close and intimate with someone (usually because they are afraid of getting hurt) that they debilitate themselves by avoiding the slightest confrontation. You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs, and you certainly can't have a great relationship without discussing and resolving your differences. A person who is mature, well-adjusted, and ready for a relationship will not avoid legitimate disagreements and discussions that need to be had, nor will he waste energy on pointless power struggles.
Author Double Posted February 24, 2010 Author Posted February 24, 2010 I really do feel like he expects to never EVER fight or disagree over anything more important than which tv show to watch, or which bar to go to. Which, actually, even then, pretty much we do whatever I want to do. He never really has an opinion; he insists I make the decision, and then says it's because he wants me to be happy. Dammit why do these things seem to come up (or become apparent) when we're more invested?
spinster Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 Your guys sound a hell of a lot like mine. Shuts down when there's the slightest hint of conflict, totally uncommunicative regarding important things, leaves all the decisions to me, has me take the lead all the time. I smell a serious case of fear of intimacy. Tread carefully.
Ruby Slippers Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 He never really has an opinion; he insists I make the decision, and then says it's because he wants me to be happy. The best part is when he comes back later and tells you, "I feel like I have to walk on eggshells around you!!!" Then DON'T DO THAT, now or ever. I am caring and considerate to my partner, but I don't walk on eggshells. If he doesn't like me for being me, then we are not compatible, anyway. Probably 80% of more of bad relationship behavior is truly rooted in simple fear of loss.
callingyouuu Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 He sounds a LOT like my dad, actually: mainly the whole avoiding arguments thing, and always deferring small decisions to my mom to make her happy. His whole philosophy on marriage was based upon acceptance. He avoided talks at all costs because he felt that a discussion basically meant that one person ultimately wanted to change the behavior of another, i.e. not accepting the other person for who they are (the only exception to this was infidelity, but that never really came up). Whenever we have a decision, he lets my mom make it so that they don't have to get into an argument. Hey, if one person's making all the decisions and the other person's always accepting them, you can't have any fights, right? To some extent, it worked. My parents rarely fought, but the few times they did, it was REALLY LOUD. Like dad storming out of the room, mom left in tears kind of loud. It's kinda like St. Nick said; he just wanted to avoid a fight, so he does whatever he can to nip it in the bud. From my experience, this isn't the kind of characteristic that you can change in a person who is that committed to avoiding drama. Trust me; my mom tried for years to get him to communicate. I think it's finally starting to work, but it took pretty much a decade and a half. If you want to get him to change, the earlier you talk to him directly about the issue, the better. If he's unreceptive or says that he'll try to be more communicative but actually doesn't try at all, decide how important communication is to you in a relationship and then go from there.
boogieboy Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 He doesnt want to communicate, he doesnt even want to TALK about communicating. Jump ship now, theres nothing to salvage here.
Awesome Username Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 Let me tell you a story; I was crazy about a guy once, and he was sort of crabby and selfish (He was a great guy actually, but those were his flaws), Still, he was brilliant and wonderful, I wanted him to love me. As time went on and he was still hung over his ex in another state, I told myself that I would be patient until it passed. Whenever he'd get into a mood and have his way instead of compromising, I'd avoid drama and tell myself to be patient. When I saw that other guys loved their girls and that mine was super casual toward me, I told myself that again, I would be patient and let it happen slowly. Time after time I kept quiet and let him be the dominant one in our relationship because I loved him so much. One day, I found that he finally did love me. Unfortunately, I was so full of resentment that I had lost my voice and spirit, that at that time I realized to my horror, I no longer loved him back. I left and he was shocked and confused. It wasn't that he was a bad person - he is a fantastic person. The problem was that I took the quiet, "good girlfriend" route for years and it beat my self image to the point of not caring anymore. It was actually a wrong on my part. Never give up your patience to a man to the point where you lose your sanity. In the end, you only end up screwing yourself. If you avoid conversations to keep the peace like I did, you will lose even if you become the light in his life.
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