The madonna/wh*re complex, in reverse

[Woggle]

I have to agree with him on that one. A woman who cheated once will do it again.

[calazhage]

1. I have never met a guy that judged a woman as a "slut" for liking something kinky. Most would probably feel they are lucky.

 

2. What are the things you are doing with FWB'S, but cannot do with a boyfriend?

 

3. Something seem wrong when sex is better with no feelings, than when being in love.. Any sex I have ever had with a woman I am in love with blows away some one night stand or kinky chick who wants something extreme.

 

4. Perhaps you are emotionally repressed, or suffering from som sort of arrested development in which you cannot use sex to bond with another man in a meaningful way, outside of an empty "FWB" type relationship.

[lino]

Well, that's you, but that's good to know, even though I have no clue who you are. Thanks for the info .

 

 

Yeah I'm laughing too

It doesn't matter whether you have a clue who I am or not, maybe I explained myself poorly... forgive me, English isn't my first language.

 

When I read your OP, I got the impression that you thought showing a serious boyfriend your very open/kinky sexual side could make him think of you as a slut (OP's words, not mine.. relax Jersey Shortie!). Is that correct?

And that you think that it's cool to show a FWB/casual screw your very open/kinky sexual side because it's not a serious thing and it doesn't bother you what they think anyway.. also correct?

 

If so, I don't think that's very accurate because I'd bet most guys would love for their girl to be wild in bed with them... FWB, one night stand, girlfriend, wife or otherwise.

I'm in a FWB situation currently and the way her and me have sex is the same way I'd wanna have sex with a serious partner... just as wild n kinky, not more, not less.

 

Of course, like I wrote earlier, it depends exactly on what you consider open/kinky.. If it's some of the stuff meerkat stew wrote, then yeah, I agree that a lot of blokes won't be into it.

 

Then I wrote, from the information you've given us here, that I believe what may give a lot of potential boyfriends of yours a less-than-favourable impression of you is the fact that you cheated on a past boyfriend with a former FWB, not your supposedly wild sexuality.

If I was one such guy and I knew that info, it would make me have very serious doubts for the reason I wrote in my earlier post and I'd bet it would for a lot of other guys too.

 

Many people believe that a man or woman who's cheated in the past has a decent probability of doing it again. I certainly think that way.

 

Maybe that's a bit clearer?

 

 

 

1. I have never met a guy that judged a woman as a "slut" for liking something kinky. Most would probably feel they are lucky.

 

Agree!

[calazhage]

As a result, it's no wonder that I've had more FWB situations than romantic relationships.

 

I know now that this is a problem--if I can't trust a guy I'm romantically involved with to not think I'm a slut, then clearly I shouldn't be dating him. What can I do?

 

 

This is what I think..

 

Inside you think of yourself as a "slut" (your words), and you are trying to rationalize your behavior by blaming men..Perhaps you even blame cheating on your ex because he might "view you as a slut"..So in your mind cheating was acceptable.

 

If you feel the need to cheat, or feel the need to have a new guy every couple of months that is YOUR issue. Because the idea that a man who loves you will all of a sudden view you as a slut for wanting something kinky is absolutely ridiculous.

[tigressA]

This is what I think..

 

Inside you think of yourself as a "slut" (your words), and you are trying to rationalize your behavior by blaming men..Perhaps you even blame cheating on your ex because he might "view you as a slut"..So in your mind cheating was acceptable.

 

If you feel the need to cheat, or feel the need to have a new guy every couple of months that is YOUR issue. Because the idea that a man who loves you will all of a sudden view you as a slut for wanting something kinky is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Excuse me? I'm in no way blaming men for any of this. I stated more than once that I know this is MY problem, my issue. I've taken responsibility for it. No, I absolutely did not think my cheating was acceptable, nor do I now. And where in the hell did you get the idea that I feel the need to have a new guy every couple of months? Because that is not the way I do things; there was nothing in any of my posts to even come close to indicating that.

[silverplanets]

I was talking with a guy friend of mine the other day about our attitudes toward sex and dating. He told me that when he was in FWB situations, he was completely free sexually, indulged in a lot of kinky things, because it was only ever about the sex--the two of them were there for their pleasure only. But when he was involved with his ex-girlfriend, he found he was incapable of doing even half the things he'd done with/to his FWBs with/to her--the madonna/wh*re complex.

 

During that conversation I realized I'm the same way. When I've been in romantic relationships, I haven't been nearly as sexually open as I have with FWBs--not necessarily because I only see the FWB as a sex object, but because I have this fear that my boyfriend will see me as a slut if I tell him I want to do this or that. As a result, it's no wonder that I've had more FWB situations than romantic relationships.

 

I know now that this is a problem--if I can't trust a guy I'm romantically involved with to not think I'm a slut, then clearly I shouldn't be dating him. What can I do?

 

Your question intreagued me at a personal level and set me wondering. I've often done the same basic thing, being a "nice" person in my LTRs and being a much more sexual person with people I am not comitted to.

 

The reason I find it interesting is because I've come to view if as a self protection mechanism .... if I don't reveal all of myself to my LTRs then they can't hurt me and I remain in "control" of myself ...

 

Only two times in life have relationships ever really hurt me - and in both of those cases I commited both aspects of me to the relationship.

 

So, for me personally, my answer would be that it is not about them, but it about me ... and it's not a fear of rejection or what they might think but instead a way to avoid becoming too dependant on one person.

 

Not saying that is what you do, but just sharing what I worked out I do ..

 

be safe

Chris

[tami-chan]

So are you trying to say that some women act the way they do sexually (be it a 'madonna' or 'whore') simply because of what thinking is common in male culture?

 

Silly me, I thought women had brains of their own and could control how they have sex and who they have it with...

I guess once again it's mans fault for what women do and the consequences that follow... I should have known better.

 

Yes, you are silly...first paragraph, you used "SOME WOMEN"..which of course make sense....second paragraph, you used "WOMEN" (a generalization..) ..nice switch. Next time when you "think" ( as in "I thought women....") maybe you should be consistent(and use qualifiers) so that it is not obvious that you are just being a richard...fair? ..or perhaps not think at all...

 

But to answer your question, SOME (I think, even, MOST) women do "tailor" the way they have sex in accordance to how they perceive their mates prefer it or prefer them to act....does that make them brainless? according to you, YES. Or maybe it is a way of manipulating the other, to gain acceptance, to be more valuable, etc.etc? or maybe because when you deeply care for another person you want to reach out and give of yourself that which is not natural to you?

 

By the way, do you think this thread was started because the OP is brainless, in that she had acted according to her perception ( and fear) on how she will be perceived by the men in her relationships?

 

Sheesh...thought so

[A O]

Yes, you are silly...first paragraph, you used "SOME WOMEN"..which of course make sense....second paragraph, you used "WOMEN" (a generalization..) ..nice switch.

Lino is right. All women have brains but only some of em use them, hence the qualifier in one and lack thereof in the other. Amusing.

 

.

[Kamille]

Wow! I keep coming back to this thread and I keep trying to craft a response but I seem to always come short.

 

I've always thought that sexual compatibility was important in a relationship. So, in my mind, if a guy was going to judge me based on my sexual desires, then I would be better off without him.

 

It makes me wonder though, what are you afraid will happen if you're too sexually open? That guys won't take you seriously? Were you continually trying to "impress" your (ex) bfs? Did you feel insecure in those relationships and like you had to play games to keep the guys around and interested? Or were you into building a relationship together, based on mutual compatibility?

[tami-chan]

Lino is right. All women have brains but only some of em use them, hence the qualifier in one and lack thereof in the other. Amusing.

 

.

 

Another one..

 

How is he right? he "thought women had brains of their own"...which means he does not think that anymore....you and I both know he does not really believe what he said. He said that to be a smart-a$$.

 

But let me get this straight. You say: "All women have brains but only some em use them" as opposed to: "All men have brains and all of em use them"????? or what was your point? Amusing, isn't it?

[A O]

He said that to be a smart-a$$.

And what were you trying to be...

 

But let me get this straight. You say: "All women have brains but only some em use them" as opposed to: "All men have brains and all of em use them"????? or what was your point? Amusing, isn't it?

What's men got to do with this - nothing! When is it appropriate or not to use a qualifier, that's the point. Lino's use was entirely appropriate.

 

 

So, in my mind, if a guy was going to judge me based on my sexual desires, then I would be better off without him.

We all judge - we "all" do. Men do not have a monopoly on the opposite gender's sexual habits, far from it in fact, far, far from it. The day when a woman can size up a potential interest and "not" think - 'I wonder if he just wants to get into my pants' is the day I'll reconsider my view. I won't hold my breath.

 

 

.

[Kamille]

The day when a woman can size up a potential interest and "not" think - 'I wonder if he just wants to get into my pants' is the day I'll reconsider my view. I won't hold my breath.

 

 

.

 

You can breathe now. That thought doesn't guide my interactions with men. I'm lucky. All the men in my life were interested in me as a whole person. This usually happens because a lot of men are out there looking for good healthy relationships and because I kind of take it for granted that men are interested in getting to know the whole me (or at least, that the men who are interested in me, are interested in getting to know me for real - not to get into my pants).

 

Interesting because I wondered if the OP's struggles are linked to the fact that maybe she believes most men "want to get into her pants". I wonder if she therefore struggles to express her sexuality with men she likes because, to her, it's like "giving in" and it makes her feel vulnerable.

 

oh and to clarify: there is such a thing as being sexually compatible. Other people have commented as such on here. So perhaps we all judge because we're looking for compatible mates. I'm not disputing that we judge and not exteriorizing myself from the process. I do want to be with a partner, however, who accepts my sexuality and who's sexuality I accept. So I stand by my comment.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Kamille

[tami-chan]

And what were you trying to be?

 

a smart-a$$ , of course, as is deserved by him, what else?

 

What's men got to do with this - nothing! When is it appropriate or not to use a qualifier, that's the point. Lino's use was entirely appropriate.

 

hmmm...let's see...the thread is about how some women act differently to different men in different kinds of "relationships"; of perceptions or misperceptions about what some men like about the women they are with; of how some men actually verbalize that they want to marry a"good girl"( whatever that means!), etc.etc....indeed , it has nothing to do with men ..

 

But you did not answer the question, how is he correct?...to tell me he is appropriate and correct without telling me anything else comes short...I suspect because you cannot answer it.

[A O]

a smart-a$$ , of course, as is deserved by him, what else?

What else - it just shows that you're no different to him.

 

hmmm...let's see...the thread is about how some women act differently to different men in different kinds of "relationships"; of perceptions or misperceptions about what some men like about the women they are with; of how some men actually verbalize that they want to marry a"good girl"( whatever that means!), etc.etc....indeed , it has nothing to do with men ..

I don't care for the thread overall. You choose to correct a poster's wording, I'm simply pointing out that his wording makes perfect sense. 'Some' women act in certain ways and 'women' have brains. The first part makes sense as you pointed out, the second part would not make sense if you used a similar qualifier, i.e, 'some' as you appear to want to do.

 

.

[A O]

You can breathe now. That thought doesn't guide my interactions with men. I'm lucky. All the men in my life were interested in me as a whole person.

I'll forever hold my breath on this one Kamille. There isn't a single woman that doesn't have this thought either in the back of her mind or validated by some guy's actions - including you! But you are exceptional, moreso than lucky. I don't believe in luck in a relationship sense.

 

Interesting because I wondered if the OP's struggles are linked to the fact that maybe she believes most men "want to get into her pants". I wonder if she therefore struggles to express her sexuality with men she likes because, to her, it's like "giving in" and it makes her feel vulnerable.

I've fleetingly read the OP. From what I can gather, she's expressive in a low-level relationship and conservative in a typical relationship. In other words, when the stakes are high - she plays it safe, when there's nothing to lose (FWB's are low-level set-ups IMO) then she's cavalier and carefree. That's fairly standard behavior. Some workmates will lark it up in their own company but be relatively conservative around their bosses in a social situation for instance. Henceforth, its what's at stake that I think is the determining factor here moreso than a particular person's views.

 

 

.

[tigressA]

It makes me wonder though, what are you afraid will happen if you're too sexually open? That guys won't take you seriously? Were you continually trying to "impress" your (ex) bfs? Did you feel insecure in those relationships and like you had to play games to keep the guys around and interested? Or were you into building a relationship together, based on mutual compatibility?

 

I didn't feel I had to play games, I didn't feel like I had to impress them. I never withheld sex itself. I posted earlier in the thread that there have been a couple of times when I've had that all-around compatibility with guys--except in the "what do you want out of this relationship" arena, and that hurt a lot. It took me a long time to get over the first one; the last one still kind of holds a spell over me since it's recent. It's really about trust--I feel like if I don't hold back, and then absolutely everything in the relationship turns out to be fantastic, but then something goes wrong and it ends, it'll hurt me even more than when I only had compatibility with my partner in one thing or the other. It's basically keeping my guard up.