Question for those who have gotten over bitterness

[Woggle]

How do you do it? I know the way I think is not healthy but I keep going back to it because it is the only way I know how to protect myself. Here are some questions.

 

How do see your friends getting used and abused over and over by the opposite sex without it affecting your view?

 

How do you constantly hear members of the opposite sex bragging about mistreating people and not let it affect you?

 

How do you constantly see misery in the relationships around you mostly caused by the opposite sex and not let it affect how you view your relationship?

 

How do resist the urge to throw some dirt right back in the other direction when you see and hear people kicking dirt on your gender and trashing them?

 

How do you avoid getting angry when you are told that everything you gone through at the hands of a member of the opposite sex is deserved because it is time for payback and evening the score?

 

This is not a thread justifying how I feel because I know how unhealthy and wrong it is but it is so hard not to. It is really hard to look at the opposite sex in a positive light when I see these things everyday. For those who manage not to let bitterness consume them how do you do it? This question is for both genders as well.

[Rulebreaker]

You sound... bitter

 

The answer to your question for me is "cognitive behavioral therapy" and hypnotherapy. Basically, changing your thinking patterns through convincing yourself that your feelings of bitterness are based on irrational thoughts. The CBT book is called "Feeling Good," and although a cheesy title, it is worth reading if you're not too good for self-help books.

 

I am the queen of thinking that my bitter thoughts are rational, but after awhile you learn you're wrong about that. Life is what you make of it. Throw yourself into things that don't make you bitter. (Actually, to be fair, I tend towards despair rather than bitterness, but the solution is similar).

Edited February 18, 2010 by Rulebreaker

[Ruby Slippers]

How do see your friends getting used and abused over and over by the opposite sex without it affecting your view?

Not many of my friends do, as they have pretty healthy relationships. But for those who do, I realize that this keeps happening to them because they are allowing it, because they are not teaching people how to treat them, because they are allowing (and in some cases inviting) the disrespect. I have one female friend who admitted to me that she is drawn to jerks. I said, "Haven't you grown out of that by now?" She said she knew I was right, and she was working on it.

 

How do you constantly hear members of the opposite sex bragging about mistreating people and not let it affect you?

I don't associate with those kinds of people, so this is not an issue for me.

 

How do you constantly see misery in the relationships around you mostly caused by the opposite sex and not let it affect how you view your relationship?

No one can cause anyone else to be miserable, outside of slavery or other extreme circumstances. If someone is treating you poorly, you communicate why it is a problem and lay down some boundaries. If the poor treatment persists, you eject that person from your life. We are each responsible for our own well-being. We are only used or abused if we allow ourselves to be.

 

How do resist the urge to throw some dirt right back in the other direction when you see and hear people kicking dirt on your gender and trashing them?

I realize that those people are miserable and deserve pity, rather than animosity. They are lashing out because they feel scared and alone. The way to make that better is to show them basic human kindness and compassion, not throw more dirt at them. "Be the change you want to see in the world." That is what I do.

 

How do you avoid getting angry when you are told that everything you gone through at the hands of a member of the opposite sex is deserved because it is time for payback and evening the score?

You have accused me of saying this, but I never did. I think this is a prime example of how you distort facts to perpetuate your own anxieties and fears. But if someone did say that and mean it, I would keep in mind that no one really gets away with anything in the end. It all comes back around.

 

For those who manage not to let bitterness consume them how do you do it?

You realize that you have a choice: you can view the world and the opposite sex through a positive or negative filter. We find whatever we are looking for. You can look for the good or the bad every single day. And I surround myself with people who share this positive approach. When I am focusing on the good in people and the world, I am much happier, so it's a very easy choice for me each day.

[boogieboy]

The way to get over bitterness is learn where you made your mistakes. Theres points where youre at fault, and you dont do it again. Know why your situations happened, and learn the many things from this board that will help you from getting caught up in those situations again. When you know where things went wrong, and you know how to prevent them, there wont be a reason for you to be bitter.

[phineas]

I was bitter for a bit after being used numerous times for my wallet.

Then I met a woman that wouldn't leave me alone.

I was happy.

We married.

Had a kid & she started cheating a yr & some change into the marriage.

 

Strangly enough I wasn't bitter towards women after she moved out.

I was just numb & un-interested in women.

[threebyfate]

Woggle, there's something about you that cries for help. And yet, over the years and over 1000ths of helpful posts, you ignore the good advice and latch onto the bad advice. If you're honestly looking for helpful advice and won't turn this into an opportunity to hate on women, I'll participate. Otherwise, I see this as just another misogynistic troll thread.

[meerkat stew]

The secret is realizing that most people are low quality, male and female, not just one gender, and making a plan for getting the scrubs out of your life and seeking out quality people to spend precious time with. It's the nature of modern Western garbage consumer society to be this way, not going to change anytime soon, so may as well accept things and work with the cultural deck one is dealt than stay bitter.

 

As for friends, their marriages and relationships, and the skewed amount of relationship and marriage issues caused by women, I'm in the same boat you are exactly. The way it kinda balances is that men do more violence and crime in society, and women cause most of the relationship and marital problems. I know this doesn't help much when none of your friends are the men doing crimes, but hey, whatever works to keep moving forward in our messed up culture.

[whichwayisup]

You sound... bitter

 

The answer to your question for me is "cognitive behavioral therapy" and hypnotherapy. Basically, changing your thinking patterns through convincing yourself that your feelings of bitterness are based on irrational thoughts. The CBT book is called "Feeling Good," and although a cheesy title, it is worth reading if you're not too good for self-help books.

I second this. And third it and fourth it!

 

THERAPY, (CBT) will help you. Along with the book suggestion.

 

The feeling good book by dr david burns, Been There, Done that, Try This! By Sam Obitz.

 

Woggle if you truly want to change, become UNbitter, learn how to have faith and trust, learn how to ignore the bad stuff in life, bad stuff around you, then YOU need to be willing to do the hard work to change your thinking process and learned behaviour, reacting behaviour from negative and bitter into positive and healthy.

 

Posting about it constantly and doing NOTHING to change it will not help. Until you choose to 'want' to be happy, and want to do therapy.

[Ms. Joolie]

Otherwise, I see this as just another misogynistic troll thread.

 

I had such a different reaction to his thread! Here he is asking for help in seeing the good in woman, and a woman automatically comes on and calls him a troll?

 

Heartbreaking.

[threebyfate]

I had such a different reaction to his thread! Here he is asking for help in seeing the good in woman, and a woman automatically comes on and calls him a troll?

 

Heartbreaking.

Go back to at least four years worth of threads, where he's asked for "help". You'll find that each thread is just an opportunity for him to trash women, in each and every post, in response to any woman who tries to help him, and no, the misogyny label isn't name calling as he openly admits to it.

 

The only person who can help Woggle, is Woggle. Soliciting attention just so he can bash on women, is trolling.

 

But if Woggle honestly wants to change, each of his responses to women who are trying to help him, won't include female bashing. I look forward to this day, where pigs will also fly.

[Ms. Joolie]

It is really hard to look at the opposite sex in a positive light when I see these things everyday.

 

It seems that you have been deeply affected by your environment. Obviously, not every man views women as you do. How you were raised and/or what you have been exposed to has utterly destroyed your healthy view of women.

 

You have to believe in the goodness that exists in a person before you can see it, recognize it, appreciate it.

 

 

If I'm surrounded by bad children, I'm not going to conclude that all children are bad. If I'm surrounded by a group of men who are crooks, I'm not going to assume that all men are crooks. If I'm in a whore house, I don't assume that all women are whores.

 

It's a matter of being in a healthy environment (or creating one) and choosing to see what is good. Sometimes it's not always there immediately present, but that does not mean it does not exist, or is not possible in that same group of people.

 

 

..........I also think that a lot of what you have experienced has gone through the "Woogle" filter, which needs to be changed.

[Ms. Joolie]

Go back to at least four years worth of threads, where he's asked for "help". You'll find that each thread is just an opportunity for him to trash women, in each and every post, in response to any woman who tries to help him, and no, the misogyny label isn't name calling as he openly admits to it.

 

The only person who can help Woggle, is Woggle. Soliciting attention just so he can bash on women, is trolling.

 

But if Woggle honestly wants to change, each of his responses to women who are trying to help him, won't include female bashing. I look forward to this day, where pigs will also fly.

 

I understand of course that after four years you would be bitter about his bitterness, and want to just lash out at him.... but geez. Please don't.

 

I thought the topic was great, and wanted to respond, but it just seemed like you wanted to start a fight right away. Maybe leave the thread for real responses and see where that gets him instead of picking a fight or bashing him and continuing that cycle...

 

 

just a thought.

[Scottdmw]

So, I’m still working on it, but I have made a lot of progress. Here are some things that helped me:

 

I recognized that, for me, I was actually taking a perverse pleasure in bitterness and self-righteousness. I would get into a certain mood and I would just replay the wrongs that were done to me, thinking about what I would say and what they would say etc. I finally realized that this was never ending. These ruminations were not actually helping me solve anything or deal with anything. It was like a part of my brain was devoted to this drama, whenever I started paying attention to that part of my brain, it would just get more and more activated and I would feel worse and worse. The solution for me was to basically force myself to stop doing this. At this point I really try to never let myself dwell on the wrongs that I feel people have done me, or even think about them at all. The brain is a funny thing, it learns through pleasure and pain. If you take any kind of pleasure in bitter thoughts, even if it's mixed with pain and unhappiness, it will still reinforce those neural pathways in your brain and make you want to do it more.

 

It helped me to realize that this drama I was putting myself through was actually doing me more harm than anything anyone else had ever done. Sure, maybe at some point somebody did hurt me. But, it became very clear that now I was hurting myself. The real problem for me now was not what someone had done to me in the past, the real problem was what I was doing to myself in the present.

 

It's very important to try to get positive energy into your mind and your life. Try to focus your attention on how you can make something better, for yourself or for someone else. I find that the more I can keep my mind in that place the happier I am all the time.

 

Like I said, the brain learns through pain and pleasure. So, it may be helpful to try to get some better pleasures into your life. I think the best choices here would be things like exercise, spending time with friends and family, constructive hobbies that you enjoy, etc. Romantic and sexual relationships obviously can provide a lot of pleasure too, but they have a lot of dangerous painful downsides when you're trying to recover from something.

 

Sometimes when I get really angry it helps me to read what other people have written about forgiveness. Google forgiveness some time, and read some of the articles about how it is a gift you give yourself for peace of mind, how it is a choice that you make even though the other person may not deserve it.

 

If you believe in God at all, pray for help in experiencing peace of mind and forgiving.

 

Good luck with it,

 

Scott

[threebyfate]

I understand of course that after four years you would be bitter about his bitterness, and want to just lash out at him.... but geez. Please don't.

 

I thought the topic was great, and wanted to respond, but it just seemed like you wanted to start a fight right away. Maybe leave the thread for real responses and see where that gets him instead of picking a fight or bashing him and continuing that cycle...

 

 

just a thought.

No, I was asking Woggle about how serious his thread was about honestly looking for help. For some reason you took exception to it and decided to take me to task for it. That's fine but what I'm most interested in, is whether Woggle is honestly interested in being helped. To me, how he'll display it, is to respond to women who post in his thread, in a way that doesn't include female bashing. Let's see how Woggle reacts.

[Twenty-ten]

I had such a different reaction to his thread! Here he is asking for help in seeing the good in woman, and a woman automatically comes on and calls him a troll?

 

Heartbreaking.

 

 

Yes typical whenever someone doesn't like something someone posts they are either a troll, their post is meant to troll, or they are the opposite sex of what they say they are, or simply a prankster. I wish people would just respond to the thread topics and let people post freely. Too much paranoia around here...who cares what people's intents are when they post just add to the discussion or don't no one needs to read people's renditions of why the posts are made.

 

I agree with you Ms. Joolie I didn't interpret this as his post being a troll either. He is clearly reaching for ways to cope with his problem.

 

Woggle it takes a conscious effort to see life in a more positive light to see people in a positive balanced way, and to keep your ingrained perceptions at bay when your tendencies have been a certain way for so long. I understand that you see a lot of things in your environment that justify and even support your angers and your negative thoughts, and I remember we discussed this in my thread (one I was also blamed for being a troll as typically happens around here ) and you mentioned a few times that you know that perhaps you do seek out a lot of the negativity that you tend to see.

 

People's situations are products of a dynamic that happens between two people, when you see the men in your life being taken advantage of or mistreated by their women they play a significant role in that dynamic as well and it is not as easy as painting all women or all men with the same brush, you have to start making a conscious effort to see people, as opposed to gender.

 

Our reality is a product of what we focus on. A few years ago I was going through some hardships concerning my career and I remember having a discussion with my sister (who also shares the same social circle that I do) and I had made an observation about some people in our circle. Keep in mind the state I was in and when I gave her my observation she said to me, "that's funny because you and I both know these people very well and yet I don't see this as you do" she proceeded to explain to me why she disagreed and she expressed that the reason she was not seeing the same thing was because she was focusing on a completely different angle than I was.

 

Hers was completely unobstructed and clear, since she was not going through the same hardships I was, where mine were a product of my personal trials and tribulations. As much as I hated to admit it at the time she was absolutely right, my view was completely clouded by my emotional state.

 

If it weren't for the fact that she is the person I love most in this world and also whom I trust most and for the simple fact that we shared the same people in this situation, I would not have been able to see this.

It's different for you to take advice from strangers but you need to find someone whom you trust in to help you look at things in a different light than what you are used to. This is the first and only step you can take to improve your way of seeing things.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Twenty-ten

[alphamale]

How do see your friends getting used and abused over and over by the opposite sex without it affecting your view?

 

How do you constantly hear members of the opposite sex bragging about mistreating people and not let it affect you?

 

How do you constantly see misery in the relationships around you mostly caused by the opposite sex and not let it affect how you view your relationship?

its usually the men that cause most of the problems in a relationship/marriage - and thats a fact

[Twenty-ten]

 

I recognized that, for me, I was actually taking a perverse pleasure in bitterness and self-righteousness. I would get into a certain mood and I would just replay the wrongs that were done to me, thinking about what I would say and what they would say etc.

 

 

This ^ is VERY true. To a certain degree these patterns of anger are a form of addiction and from this addiction you definitely get a charge/reward from it.

[meerkat stew]

its usually the men that cause most of the problems in a relationship/marriage - and thats a fact

 

Surely you are being sarcastic.

[Woggle]

I am not going to bash the women in this thread and as much as we have butted heads TBF is actually one of the women on here I do respect because I have never seen her once trying to make excuses when women do wrong And she is fair to both genders. I know after all this time people get sick of my misogynist rants and believe me I do try not to look at things in this manner but every time I think I have started to trust women more something happens to bring me back to this place. It's like hearing my two coworkers brag about their affairs the day after I got back from a great vacation. All the good from those two weeks was erased in one day.

 

 

I do not want to be so negative but it is so damn hard. Whenever I see a man being heatlessly played by a woman or I hear a woman brag about cheating on a man like it is some feminist act of defiance I feel like throwing dirt back in the other direction. Try growing up with no positive examples or role models from the opposite sex whatsoever and then going out in the world and trusting one only to have the first person you truly love betray you in every way imaginable. I bet anybody here would have trust issues as well. I want to stop being this way but I do not want to end up like other men who have sucker for women stamped on their forehead. I just want to know how to do it from people who have successfully accomplished it.

[paddington bear]

I am not going to bash the women in this thread and as much as we have butted heads TBF is actually one of the women on here I do respect because I have never seen her once trying to make excuses when women do wrong And she is fair to both genders. I know after all this time people get sick of my misogynist rants and believe me I do try not to look at things in this manner but every time I think I have started to trust women more something happens to bring me back to this place. It's like hearing my two coworkers brag about their affairs the day after I got back from a great vacation. All the good from those two weeks was erased in one day.

 

 

I do not want to be so negative but it is so damn hard. Whenever I see a man being heatlessly played by a woman or I hear a woman brag about cheating on a man like it is some feminist act of defiance I feel like throwing dirt back in the other direction. Try growing up with no positive examples or role models from the opposite sex whatsoever and then going out in the world and trusting one only to have the first person you truly love betray you in every way imaginable. I bet anybody here would have trust issues as well. I want to stop being this way but I do not want to end up like other men who have sucker for women stamped on their forehead. I just want to know how to do it from people who have successfully accomplished it.

 

Woggle, just as an aside, what brought on this sudden, well if not change or heart, but realisation that you didn't want to think this way any more?

 

I started going to a behavioural therapist and what they do is change your beliefs or behaviour over time (unhealthy ones obviously). What I've found is that so many thoughts of mine were so ingrained that in my head they were simply true. Now, I've been very simply made to question some beliefs that I had, unhealthy stuff that I didn't even know what there.

 

I'm trying to think of an example...ok, so I went to therapy due to a terrible situation I was in and I couldn't cope with dealing with this nuts BPD woman and was freaking out knowing if I encountered her again that I'd be questioned relentlessly and have whatever I did say twisted and was in a state of panic as to how to handle this. My therapist said 'well then, when you talk to her, just lie'.

 

Honestly, this answer just floored me. I've been brought up to believe that lying is bad, bad, bad and to consciously do it, or to plan to do it was even worse. It never occurred to me to simply lie for self-protection from someone with clear mental problems. That's just an example, and obviously what is ingrained in you would be different to me, but perhaps you have beliefs that are so a part of you that you never question them and you should be made to, to realise that actually the world is not like you thought, or that things aren't the way you believe them to be.

 

Also I think you are projecting your own beliefs about what women and relationships are like outwards in order to constantly get proof of your assumptions. Thus when you hear those women boasting about having affairs it feeds your belief that 'all' women are like that. I have a suspicion that your brain slides over or ignores evidence to the contrary and only notices what it wants you to see i.e. the bad things, thus feeding the cycle.

 

Another example, I considered myself ignored by men. They just weren't interested in me as far as I could see. This was confirmed to me over years and years. But then after reading some book or other I spent a week consciously looking to see if I was invisible to the opposite sex, and like the closet scientist that I am, I went home every evening and sent myself an email cataloguing ever minor thing 'Guy smiled at me on the train'. 'Guy in club flirted with me' until I had proved to myself that a) my assumption was totally false and b) that instead of looking only out for evidence for what you don't want to see, look for evidence of what you do want to see.

 

Therefore, your mission, should you chose to accept it, is to ignore all evidence of slutty women, cheating on their men and treating them like crap (they are out there, no doubt about that...but they are for sure balanced out with women who are not like that). And you are to either do what I did, email yourself, or get a notebook and you are only allowed to write in it when you've seen evidence of good, healthy relationships, women who speak kindly and fondly of their husbands. Once you start to focus on this, you'll find you see it more and more and it will bring some balance to your point of view.

 

Hope this helps.

[sugarmomma]

but every time I think I have started to trust women more something happens to bring me back to this place.

 

 

 

Therein for me lies the answer. It is not about trusting women. Its about trusting yourself to stay committed to only having 1st class (honest, compassionate, caring, respectful, trustworthy) people in your life. I'm learning that I attract what I think. If I think all men are cheating dogs I go in expecting to be let down and look for those traits or subconsciously create them.

 

I consciously stay away from 2nd class people. You know the habitual liars, cheaters, insecure egomaniacs with low self esteem.

 

However, I have decided that I needed to become what it is that I want to attract. If I say I want a 1st class man I need to become a 1st class women. I need to be the best person I can be and if that is too much for them, because I have firm boundaries, I can move on.

 

Boundaries are very important in relationships. You have to know what behavior is unacceptable and enforce it when the time comes and this can be extremely difficult when you love another.

 

All the dysfunction I see in other relationships I don't let it bother me because I understand that fear plays a huge part in why people hurt others or allow themselves to be hurt.

 

I personally have a very low tolerance for BS and because I meet men interested in me a lot, I get to weed out the rif raf.

 

Woggle, Dr Phil uses a term that "what you fear you create" and I have found that it really resonates with me. I wish you the best.

[Woggle]

What brought this on is the fact that despite everything I really would like to not look at women in such a negative light and I do not want to ruin the best relationship with a woman I have ever had in my life. Also I won't name names but when I hear some posters generalizing all men on this board I get ticked off but I imagine that is what I must sound like to women.

 

I am just tired of carrying around all this bitterness but I feel that in order for a man not to be eaten alive he almost has to be a misogynistic jerk these days. Just look at these boards and see what happens to men who open up and try to have happy relationships with a woman. That is why the few women on this board who truly do appreciate a loving and faithful man who treats them well give me that small window of hope.

[whichwayisup]

The real key is, focus on the women you do know in your life, ones whom you like and respect.. Mostly your wife, her friends, neighbours etc..

 

The most important person IS your wife and it's really time to learn not to let what happens around you impact you so much. Yes, there are alot of man-eating wenches out there, but you don't have to let them control how you feel, taint how you view women in general. The world is filled with a-holes and cruel people, it really isn't gender specific, though I can understand in your life with your past experiences, it has been with women.

 

Wog, if you truly want to get past this and want to let go of the bitterness, (I keep saying this over and over again) you have to make a daily, sometimes hourly effort to change your thinking and reacting process. And CBT will truly help you. I really hope that you consider it!

 

Hope this helps.

[Woggle]

This is true. When I am in one of my moods I see everything in terms of men vs women. I can't even think clearly when I am like that.

 

Another thing that is prompting me to want to change is the fact that I might have lost a close friend over this. I bought the Women's Infidelity book for a friend that is about to get married and now he has disinvited me to his wedding. I was only trying to do him a favor and give him a little bit of knowledge before he walked down the aisle but he didn't take it that way.

[sumdude]

Just look at these boards and see what happens to men who open up and try to have happy relationships with a woman. That is why the few women on this board who truly do appreciate a loving and faithful man who treats them well give me that small window of hope.

 

Try to remember something very important about LS. It's an open forum with total anonymity. Which a lot of people take as carte blanche to say anything. Even put on false persona's and start over the top threads and posts specifically to generate heated responses just for fun and ego. You also tend to get people who have been the most hurt.

 

Thing about it all is.. a lot of people just suck and it's pretty even between the genders. You just have to be able to accept it. Whatever happened in their lives or growing up that made them that way. At some point as adults everyone has a choice to rise above and make sense of what created them and possibly change. Sounds like you might be at that point in your life. Not that you suck lol but that maybe you want to rise above whatever created your darker side.