Crazy Magnet Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 Alright, I've really gotten myself to thinking thanks to a couple of threads on here. Here's my situation and my thoughts about it. To put it into context this guy is mid 30's, never married, no kids, but several 2 and 3 year LTRs. So I met this guy. He was upfront and said he remained "friends" with a few of his ex girlfriends. I said ok. (Note to self, always ask for more clarification on the definition of friends.) Fast forward. He goes one night every week to hang out with a female friend. He says to me one day, I didn't have fun at the friend's place tonight b/c she was cranky. The reason was that I was spending so much time with you. (He has later tried to go back and say this is not what he meant or said, but it was enough to make my brain go ah hah!) I asked him if he ever dated her, and he said yes. They dated for two years and broke up about 10 years ago. Went through the awkward phase, and then became friends. She has not dated anyone else since him, so this has never been an issue from her side. He tells me that he is the only friend she ever really hangs out with. She never comes to the groups events that my BF and I go to which take place on two other nights every week. She is invited every week. He tells me her social anxiety keeps her away (yet she can go to her job every day but not go hang out with friends she has known for 15 years???) He never toned down the time spent with her when we started dating. He never invited me along even though the girl he dated before me had HUGE problems with it, so he knew it had the potential to be a huge problem. I brought up the situation once I knew they had dated and insisted on meeting her and insisted that he not go alone to her house anymore (on what planet is that ever acceptable????!!!!????). I waited about two weeks, still didn't meet her, and invited myself along to their next hang out. She was nice enough but I'm still uncomfortable with it. So I revisited the topic last night. For me, I don't ever want to consider getting in a serious R with the potential for marriage with a guy who insists on date night every week with an ex gf. He tried to tell me he shouldn't have to limit hanging out with her b/c of my jealousy and insecurities. He said his other girlfriends in the past have thought it was really weird at first, but then eventually got over it. They all later broke up with him for one reason or another. But he's never really given me the reasons. He always just says the relationships were never bad, they just weren't compatible enough for marriage. I have never asked him to end the friendship. I have asked that instead of meeting up with her EVERY week, that they catch up over lunch every couple of weeks and otherwise just talk on the phone. Am I nuts? Am I out of line in my compromise? Would any women be ok with this from their BF? Would any many be ok if this was their GF doing the same thing? Would anybody ever marry a guy or girl if everything else about him was perfect except this ONE thing? Would you ever do this to a person you claim to love? Would you ever change your behavior to keep the person you say you love? Is there any other plausible (not cheating) explanation to justify this behavior? Has anyone ever been in the same situation (but from his side) and can you explain your reasons for not accommodating your SO and what happened in the end? If you have manged to read this far, please don't start throwing out "he's cheating on you" crap b/c physically he is NOT cheating on me. You are welcome to discuss emotional forms of cheating however.
mortensorchid Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 I am friends with one of my old bfs. He has since married and he and his wife and I are on good terms, we go to parties together and we're all welcome in each others' homes and social circles. Meet this gal and see what you see. It's an odd situation, yours and well as mine, but if you love and care about someone enough to really REALLY have a life long friendship, then it will happen if it's going to happen. If not, well, it's not meant to be. These situations can and will happen in a few and far between situations. Maybe you will be one of them, but don't be bent out of shape if not.
Awesome Username Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 It's not the fact the he's friends with his ex - I actually think that it's a sign that he's able to have a healthy relationship and not have to leave every girlfriend on a bad note. The red flag is the "social anxiety" bullsh*t, and the fact that the boyfriend never invited you over there. Why can't you watch TV at your house sometimes? Have you brought that up?
Author Crazy Magnet Posted February 16, 2010 Author Posted February 16, 2010 I've met her, and she was nice. But the insisting that he HAS to hang out with her EVERY week is my problem. Do you see your ex bf every single week? Without fail? You NEVER miss a week? Tonight is the night he normally meets with her, but one of my best friends is having a birthday party. I feel GUILTY for asking him to miss his night with her. I shouldn't feel bad for inviting my boyfriend to a birthday party. I would not mind his friendship if she also made an effort to come to the group events. And do you still hang out with the exBF alone?
Author Crazy Magnet Posted February 16, 2010 Author Posted February 16, 2010 It's not the fact the he's friends with his ex - I actually think that it's a sign that he's able to have a healthy relationship and not have to leave every girlfriend on a bad note. The red flag is the "social anxiety" bullsh*t, and the fact that the boyfriend never invited you over there. Why can't you watch TV at your house sometimes? Have you brought that up? I've invited them both to watch this particular TV show at my house and at the house of my own friends. Both ideas were shot down. Also, he told me that their actual relationship was extremely unhealthy, with them both feeding into each other's anxieties (it's ok if we don't go out, it's ok if we don't have other friends, etc.) It had an unhealthy base, so I fail to see how that translates into a healthy friendship. As it stands now we watch the show at a bar......
Awesome Username Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 I've invited them both to watch this particular TV show at my house and at the house of my own friends. Both ideas were shot down. Also, he told me that their actual relationship was extremely unhealthy, with them both feeding into each other's anxieties (it's ok if we don't go out, it's ok if we don't have other friends, etc.) It had an unhealthy base, so I fail to see how that translates into a healthy friendship. As it stands now we watch the show at a bar...... I'm sorry to say this Crazy, but in my experience men only turn into self-help psychology majors in their own mind when they're making excuses for something that they know shouldn't happen, or when they're rationalizing their attraction to a whackjob hot mess. I don't know what's going on in this situation, but it's red flaggy if the friend and/or boyfriend shoots your idea down. That's really disrespectful, considering the circumstances. And I'm for people being on good terms with their exes. I wonder how he would respond if you did the same thing with a guy weekly, or even if the ex girlfriend met with a different guy weekly; It might be a different story.
Author Crazy Magnet Posted February 16, 2010 Author Posted February 16, 2010 I'm sorry to say this Crazy, but in my experience men only turn into self-help psychology majors in their own mind when they're making excuses for something that they know shouldn't happen, or when they're rationalizing their attraction to a whackjob hot mess. I don't know what's going on in this situation, but it's red flaggy if the friend and/or boyfriend shoots your idea down. That's really disrespectful, considering the circumstances. And I'm for people being on good terms with their exes. I wonder how he would respond if you did the same thing with a guy weekly, or even if the ex girlfriend met with a different guy weekly; It might be a different story. My own ex BF and I are sort of attempting the friend thing. But he reads every text I send to him to his new GF, which is fine by me, and I'm the one pushing to meet her b/c I want her to feel comfortable with me. We only text every few days and have only talked on the phone once, and my ex's new GF has already been like "eh...that's too much" so we will be less friendly for sure until she gets to meet me. IMO my BF's ex should be doing things like this to accommodate me. I'm all for friends with ex's too. However, I think they should be based on the rules of the SO and not the ex.
boogieboy Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 You are trying to change the guy and his habits. You cant go trying to change a guy, ever. He has to change himself. Apparently he wont. I think everything about this is a red flag, but trying to change anything, since he is defending his friendship, isnt going to get you anywhere. You shouldnt feel guilty about taking him away from anyone, its not your concern. I think that his ex is his FWB when he isnt in a relationship, and hes right, it IS an unhealthy relationship, because he knows he is string her along. Theres too many red flags to keep this one going.
carhill Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 Decide your boundary and enforce it. I think his very valuable friend needs to become a regular guest in your home. I wouldn't have it any other way. Friends are important. Ones SO is their priority.
melodymatters Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 I agree with you on this CM ! And yeah, it's the commitment to this tradition, this night, that bugs me. I had a BF who before he moved in told me that every wed would be sleepover at CJ's night : His male best friend ! Now, I know my BF wasn't gay, and that CJ was rather socially inept and all they did was watch movies or play video games, but having a DEDICATED night ? Why not just hang out with CJ here and there and plan to crash if you decide to drink ? The ritual of the situation in both cases is what makes it " freaky" !
Greenpeacer Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 Yeah, once a week without you smells like emotional cheating. I'd look it up and see what are the signs. ask him what are his feelings towards this person. ask for details like what kind of feelings he has for her. how they meet? what he gets out of it? and what she gets? meet her and try an dsee what she gets out of it? How long has been going on? What is the bond about? It smells weird to me and Id actually try an date other people unless you dont mind 3people around. If my GF did that with another girl, i'd find it weird let alone a guy even i f no sex were involved. good luck PS: (and some guys do read self-help ie the type women think are "nice guys" and run away from too often unless they are ready for a calm loving relationship IMHO:)
Author Crazy Magnet Posted February 16, 2010 Author Posted February 16, 2010 ask him what are his feelings towards this person. ask for details like what kind of feelings he has for her. how they meet? what he gets out of it? and what she gets? meet her and try an dsee what she gets out of it? How long has been going on? What is the bond about? He says he thinks of her as a little sister now, and that's as much as he gives me. He claims she is meeting no emotional needs of his that he does not have met within a relationship with an SO (I'll keep my opinion about that to myself.) I'm sure what she gets is attention, she has no friends other than my boyfriend who she hangs out with. It's been going on for a while apparently. To me, the bond looks like he's enabling her to continue to be unhealthy by not making her get new friends and allowing her to cling to what they once had.
Author Crazy Magnet Posted February 16, 2010 Author Posted February 16, 2010 Decide your boundary and enforce it. I think his very valuable friend needs to become a regular guest in your home. I wouldn't have it any other way. Friends are important. Ones SO is their priority. Well.....nothing ventured, nothing gained. I'll give this a shot next week in addition to suggesting we meet at a friend's house for LOST. I'll also suggest the three of us do dinner together. Hell, why don't I invite my exBF and his new GF along at the same time!!!
carhill Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 Hell, why don't I invite my exBF and his new GF along at the same time!!! IMO, if this 'friends with ex'es' philosophy is healthy and is going to work, these sorts of considerations for dynamics should be irrelevant. Think about how you invite friends over for a BBQ. 'Hey, ribs and beer this weekend. Five o'clock. Don't be late'. Done IMO, any time you have to assign more brain time to this than is normal for friends who care about each other, something unhealthy is going on somewhere.... I'm not saying where it is, but it's somewhere....
xpaperxcutx Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 It does seem weird. But the thing is, how do you feel about him being " friends" with exes? Personally, I find it weird that a guy can be " friends' with everyone, since I'm the type of girl to break things off completely clean without even a backward glance.
carhill Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 Irrespective of gender and absent shared children, IME, it's been the attention whores who keep former intimate partners around, like klingons circling Uranus. The clear indicator (of the whoring part) is absence of shared interests and/or open and conspicuous support of each others relationships and present intimate partners.
Kamille Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 How understanding is he when you approach the issue? Does he understand why you would be uncomfortable? Or does is he presenting the 'once a week' thing as an absolute non-negotiable that you just have to put up with?
threebyfate Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 The clear indicator (of the whoring part) is absence of shared interests and/or open and conspicuous support of each others relationships and present intimate partners.Surprisingly, I agree with this portion, although I think you intended it to read "conspicuous lack of support for". What you'll find is that they'll find ways to denigrate the existing partner, usually both their own and also their "friend's" partner. It's an indication of ulterior motives.
Author Crazy Magnet Posted February 16, 2010 Author Posted February 16, 2010 Irrespective of gender and absent shared children, IME, it's been the attention whores who keep former intimate partners around, like klingons circling Uranus. The clear indicator (of the whoring part) is absence of shared interests and/or open and conspicuous support of each others relationships and present intimate partners. Can you explain this. I don't understand if you mean they DO or DON"T show support for the relationship. As far as I can tell she never asks about me b/c he never says "Hey, chickadee asked about you today and I told her you were great." I more get the sense she ignores my very existence unless he brings me up. I wouldn't KNOW since the only way I see her is if I invite myself along. Otherwise she is conveniently always MIA when I'm around. His bday is coming up though, surely she'll be at that. How understanding is he when you approach the issue? Does he understand why you would be uncomfortable? Or does is he presenting the 'once a week' thing as an absolute non-negotiable that you just have to put up with? His response "I shouldn't have to change b/c you are jealous and insecure." That's about an understanding as a brick wall IMO. So far it seems to be something I have to "put" up with any asking him to do anything else is immature on my part. Here is the exact compromise I have said over and over again. So far it has been completely dismissed. I sent this to him earlier today. And yeah, the last sentence is a bit snippy, but I'm done being totally nice about it as nice=doormat it seems. I would allow the friendship to proceed once my fears have been put to rest, but so far, nobody cares enough to put them to rest. I will stand my my previous assertions that she needs to start coming to the group events if she wants to see you that bad and shelve Tuesdays until I'm more comfortable with her, or meet on Tuesdays at either my house or a friend's house in addition to coming to other group events. To me, it's her job to make me feel comfortable enough to allow the friendship to continue, not the other way around. My relationship with you is completely legit, I have nothing to prove. She has everything to prove (and you as well).
Author Crazy Magnet Posted February 16, 2010 Author Posted February 16, 2010 'absence of' one or both items. Since he doesn't offer any common interests he has with her, I have no idea. Mostly b/c he doesn't mention her in my presence. Their "big" night together involves watching TV....so exciting. Other than that, they do no mutual activities. And as stated above, I get the sense she pretends I don't exists. She did tell him that she REALLY wanted to meet me, yet she flaked on every possible occasion to meet me. It didn't seem like a dedicated effort to me!
meerkat stew Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 CM are you sure this is a battle you want to fight this early in your relationship? IMO, after reading your latest posts, you need more info before drawing a line in the sand, and in light of other discussions, still think befriending her is the way to go. You have said this guy is great otherwise, is this still the only thing that is bothering you about him? If so, I say let it lie or work around it as far as whether to make ultimatums. Quality people who float our boats are very rare, and this female friend of his just doesn't sound like an undue threat at this point.
Author Crazy Magnet Posted February 16, 2010 Author Posted February 16, 2010 Surprisingly, I agree with this portion, although I think you intended it to read "conspicuous lack of support for". What you'll find is that they'll find ways to denigrate the existing partner, usually both their own and also their "friend's" partner. It's an indication of ulterior motives. She's hasn't HAD a partner since my BF.....but whenever I said I was going to set her up with all my single guy friends, he said she wasn't the kind of girl you set up with your friends.....I guess he was referring to her size, but I've often wondered if he just doesn't want her dating anyone either. Who says big people can't get boyfriends and be loved too??
carhill Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 Since he doesn't offer any common interests he has with her, I have no idea. Mostly b/c he doesn't mention her in my presence. Their "big" night together involves watching TV....so exciting. Other than that, they do no mutual activities. And as stated above, I get the sense she pretends I don't exists. She did tell him that she REALLY wanted to meet me, yet she flaked on every possible occasion to meet me. It didn't seem like a dedicated effort to me! That would be enough for me. Next
threebyfate Posted February 16, 2010 Posted February 16, 2010 She's hasn't HAD a partner since my BF.....but whenever I said I was going to set her up with all my single guy friends, he said she wasn't the kind of girl you set up with your friends.....I guess he was referring to her size, but I've often wondered if he just doesn't want her dating anyone either. Who says big people can't get boyfriends and be loved too??Once a week with an old ex, watching TV together is really strange, especially if she hasn't dated since their relationship. Straight up, I think he's getting an ego-stroke from her dedication to him. While this isn't unusual, it's not healthy for him to enable her isolation and most definitely not healthy for her to hold onto him, like a security blanket. I can understand your concern, especially since she doesn't want to get together with the two of you. If anything, this is beyond sad, if my above paragraph is true.
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