An open letter on behalf of single mothers...

[lino]

I'm single, nearly 28 and without kids. I wouldn't get involved with a single mum, not because of any stygma or anything like that but because I want my future wife to have kids with me and only me.

[stillafool]

OP, I don't think you should feel hopeless about your dating situation. There are plenty of single fathers out there that want someone to date as well. Have you looked into any the of single parents groups? I asked you this before in another thread of your regarding this but you didn't answer.

 

It is almost impossible that single men or women want to date a person who already has children. It's just too much extra stress for most people and if they plan to marry they want to start their own family. But, there are plenty of men who are in your shoes. I know a woman with kids who met a lovely man with kids at one of those groups.

[polksaladannie]

OP, I don't think you should feel hopeless about your dating situation. There are plenty of single fathers out there that want someone to date as well. Have you looked into any the of single parents groups? I asked you this before in another thread of your regarding this but you didn't answer.

 

It is almost impossible that single men or women want to date a person who already has children. It's just too much extra stress for most people and if they plan to marry they want to start their own family. But, there are plenty of men who are in your shoes. I know a woman with kids who met a lovely man with kids at one of those groups.

 

There are no single parents groups in my area.....I live in a college student/married area

[blind_otter]

'Do I have the time and energy to devote to sharing myself with another human being, getting to know and care for them, and possibly fall in love with them? Am I up to that?'

 

Good question to ask, looking right in the mirror. Act honestly on the response.

 

Does anyone, really? Including the emotional baggage from the past, not just those living breathing bits of baggage that live in their physical reality?

 

The answer for most single mothers who work 2 jobs to make ends meet, is that no, they do not have the time and energy to devote to another human being - because they don't have time and energy to devote to themselves. So according to your logic, they should remain alone.

 

Look, I've seen kids that were raised by single mothers who didn't have any relationship subsequent to their divorce. It's not pretty. The kids end up growing up without any sort of example of what a relationship could be like.

 

Look, some people are fine dating single mothers. THat's cool. There are millions of different ways to be, and millions of different people who accept the myriad ways of being. To dictate any kind of ultimatum without regard to the specifics of a particular situation is just preaching and finger pointing and self righteousness.

Edited February 17, 2010 by blind_otter

[sam light]

Good generalizations, but people [including single mothers] come in all forms.

I for one will give them a shot a dating for fun and hopefully sex. But I don't want to be involved with the kids in anyway, so I'd never get too involved with a Mother. I'm up front about this early on, maybe it's not mentioned in a 1st or second date [i do want to get laid] but I do bring it up before things get too intense.

 

Some women have been alright with it, and others quickly move on to a more family minded man.

[silverfish]

I agree with the positive comments here, and support the OP in that she should feel like she's a full, whole, valuable person. The comments about "social standing" are laughable, although it's a logical reality that your likely pool of interested suitors will be more narrow.

 

One thing struck me about the quote above, however: can I ask, something with an open mind? You mention that you're off on a date with a guy who's never had kids. I'm just curious why you mentioned that. Does that make him more or less desirable, or does it factor into your interest in him in any way? Because that sure sounded like the mirror-image of what the OP is talking about.

 

Incidentally, I've dated a woman with kids, and I've been really attracted to another one (with young kids), but I suppose since I'm a divorced man with kids of my own, I recognize that I'm not necessarily a prime candidate either... I am confident in who I am, so I don't think that reflects on my "social standing," or implies a "judgement" from those in my community, it's just as much a reality of dating life as if I worked 75 hours a week, or travelled all the time for work.

 

No, I don't see him as more or less desirable...just trying to give the OP a bit of a morale booster. I would have gone out with him whether he had kids or not.

 

I was brought up in a 'blended family' as the PC crowd like to call it these days. A lot of people my age were, which may be why I don't get this level of prejudice IRL

 

The man I went out with last night has divorced parents as well, and has a half sister, whose children he is very fond of. Interestingly, he told me his mother is very sick, and if she got worse, he would move back to care for her....she lives over 400km away. So...dilemma for me.

[flc]

Just realize everyone has their preferences and don't take it personal. Being a single mom unfortunetly limits you dating pool but does not destroy it. You will need to either find a man with kids or one that is open to the challenges of having children in their life. With over 50% of marriages ending in divorce single parent families are as much the norm as not. I don't see why there should be a stigma for being a single mom or dad.

 

When I was 26 I met and married a single mother, her child was 2 years old he is now 28 and I am his dad. We had a daughter who is now 16yo and I divorced when I was 50. I had no problems dating single mothers but at 50 I decided that their children needed to be 15yo or older. I just did not want to go through raising young kids again. My current GF has 3 kids 18, 22 & 25. we both know our kids come first and it is challenging making time for us alone, but we make it work. So hang in there you find someone who is right for you.

[carhill]

Does anyone, really? Including the emotional baggage from the past, not just those living breathing bits of baggage that live in their physical reality?

 

Yes, really. That's what emotional health and honesty is about. That's exactly what I told the lady I'm seeing right now when she first asked me about my divorce. I told her I waited until I could honestly look into the mirror and say that. YMMV. That's what I'm looking for. It's not required, but neither is my presence. Thanks

[sagetalk]

I'm not tryin' to play any cards here. My point is... you said you'd never date a divorced woman.

 

Like I said as well, is that it depends on the situation...

 

Oh but you did play a card, you tried to paint me as immature, and that is unwarranted and lame. I said I'd never date a divorced woman who wasn't cheated on or physically abused, and I have sound and logically reasons for doing this. It has nothing to with immaturity, it is only a process in finding the best possible marriage partner I can.

[sagetalk]

So, you think it's more mature for someone to keep a miserable marriage going, one which is likely damaging the children, out of some obligation to friends and family or your view of God?

 

The job of a mother is to find the most suitable, qualified, loving dad she can, marry him, and live with him until death. It's the best possible environment for kids. If a mother is concerned for her children, then she should think about them before they are even born and not marry/sleep with slime that treats her horrible.

 

By marrying an unworthy or unfit dad, the mother has already damaged the child. So to say it is damaging to stay is pointless since it is also damaging to leave. To say it is the dad damaging the children is not completely correct either since the mother hand picked the dad to be the child's parent (by having sex with him).

 

I never said this was easy, but unless one must absolutely leave a partner (physical abuse, unfaithfulness), I think it is more mature to stay. But it is even more mature to choose a man wisely in the first place.

[blind_otter]

Yes, really. That's what emotional health and honesty is about. That's exactly what I told the lady I'm seeing right now when she first asked me about my divorce. I told her I waited until I could honestly look into the mirror and say that. YMMV. That's what I'm looking for. It's not required, but neither is my presence. Thanks

 

Judging from this microcosm, there are many people who believe that they are capable, but they are not.

 

Anyways, cheers to this thread. I'm a single mother, and I will be single and sexless for the rest of my life.

[sagetalk]

It takes a mature person to find someone to settle down with for life

 

Well said.

[and.then.some]

"6) We are organized. If I plan time out of my busy schedule to have coffee with you, I will give you my full attention; it took a lot of work to set aside that time. If we set aside that time for you, be grateful...it means we think a lot of you."

 

The above is why I prefer to date men who have children. Young men who don't have children can rarely understand this.

 

For the guys who say no man will have you.... ignore them. It's not true. There are men out there who would rather not date a woman with children. Back in ancient history, when I was in my late teens, I accepted a man who had a child. It was a huge "no-no" for me, just as it still is to all of my single female friends. However, when you meet the right person, and things go well, we can learn to adjust... (unless we really hate children or are afraid of responsibility).

 

The guy who wouldn't give you a chance is the guy you most certainly don't need to worry about. If he doesn't have the maturity or experience to deal with such a situation then it's no loss to you.

 

On the other hand, I do understand the other side as well. If I were totally single with nothing on my plate but working during the week and clubbing on the weekend, I might not want to be with a man who has so many other things in his life which come first. With less to do, I might want and need more attention.

 

Though I haven't had this problem come up for me before in dating, all of the stereotypes about single moms that I read around here are annoying. (The only problem I had was before my divorced was finalized. "Separated" can be rather scary word.) Women, like men, come in different classes with different levels of maturity. No mature, responsible, and educated woman would have any of the goofy men present babysitting her children, nor would she attempt to "play house" with them.

[carhill]

No mature, responsible, and educated woman would have any of the *goofy men present* babysitting her children, nor would she attempt to "play house" with them.

 

Just being clear, before I get started, that you're advocating personal attacks here? Let me know

[silverfish]

Honey do a search on single mothers on this site alone and you will see some lovely remarks:rolleyes:

 

Carhill, if you're going to pick on *goofy* as an insult, then please feel free to do a search as the OP suggested, maybe start by re-reading this thread

[and.then.some]

Just being clear, before I get started, that you're advocating personal attacks here? Let me know

 

LOL! Not exactly. To be clear... I wasn't referring to all of the men here, and I most certainly wasn't speaking of you.

 

I wouldn't really call it an "attack". Goofy is as goofy does.

[Enema]

I'd give a single mother a shot if I didn't have to ever interact with her children and neither her lifestyle nor our relationship was hampered by them.

 

-- A realistic impossibility.

 

Why would I "settle" for a woman with kids? There are plenty of fish in the sea - if I could choose between two identical women, one with and one without kids....

[mammax3]

Interesting discussion.

 

There are all sorts of expectations and parameters people make when choosing a partner, and it is based on their history and experiences and ideals. Some men may only pursue blonde women, or college educated women; some women may only pursue engineers or 28 yos. Whenever parameters are set, they automatically exclude all others - which means that I (not blonde, but college educated) will be omitted from some mens choices. It is what it is.

 

The job of a mother is to find the most suitable, qualified, loving dad she can, marry him, and live with him until death. It's the best possible environment for kids. If a mother is concerned for her children, then she should think about them before they are even born and not marry/sleep with slime that treats her horrible.

 

By marrying an unworthy or unfit dad, the mother has already damaged the child. So to say it is damaging to stay is pointless since it is also damaging to leave. To say it is the dad damaging the children is not completely correct either since the mother hand picked the dad to be the child's parent (by having sex with him).

 

I never said this was easy, but unless one must absolutely leave a partner (physical abuse, unfaithfulness), I think it is more mature to stay. But it is even more mature to choose a man wisely in the first place.

 

A woman may marry an unfit man (and by that I assume emotionally unhealthy) due to patterning and history. If she witnessed her mother maturely staying in a relationship that portrayed unhealthiness, then she will also seek out unhealthy relationships. Occasionally there are individuals who will stop the cycle, but if there is poverty, crime, abuse, neglect, limited education or chronic stress (in the form of illness, death, relocation etc) then it can be difficult to wisely choose a man who will help her break the cycle. What healthy man will seek out a woman who is not healthy?

 

That's not to say single parents are unhealthy. Just as there are emotionally unhealthy single parents, there are emotionally unhealthy single people. That may be a parameter one chooses to adopt in their quest to find a partner.

[silverfish]

Interesting discussion.

 

There are all sorts of expectations and parameters people make when choosing a partner, and it is based on their history and experiences and ideals. Some men may only pursue blonde women, or college educated women; some women may only pursue engineers or 28 yos. Whenever parameters are set, they automatically exclude all others - which means that I (not blonde, but college educated) will be omitted from some mens choices. It is what it is.

 

 

 

A woman may marry an unfit man (and by that I assume emotionally unhealthy) due to patterning and history. If she witnessed her mother maturely staying in a relationship that portrayed unhealthiness, then she will also seek out unhealthy relationships. Occasionally there are individuals who will stop the cycle, but if there is poverty, crime, abuse, neglect, limited education or chronic stress (in the form of illness, death, relocation etc) then it can be difficult to wisely choose a man who will help her break the cycle. What healthy man will seek out a woman who is not healthy?

 

That's not to say single parents are unhealthy. Just as there are emotionally unhealthy single parents, there are emotionally unhealthy single people. That may be a parameter one chooses to adopt in their quest to find a partner.

 

Very good points. I think one of the problems for me is that simply by being a single parent (well, mother actually, no judgment on the dads in these scenarios I notice) you are judged to be *unhealthy* before anyone knowing that you have been through the processes of leaving an unhealthy relationship, or having a relationship ended by no choice of your own.

 

There are emotionally unhealthy people in marriages & relationships as well. There aren't many people who are single who have never had a relationship end.

 

I am quite shocked that it's quite a commonly held belief on LS that a woman should remain in a marriage at any cost if she has children, or risk being thrown on the scrapheap. Its not a POV I've ever come across IRL.

[and.then.some]

Sagetalk: "But it is even more mature to choose a man wisely in the first place."

 

Maybe like with parenthood, you have to experience this to understand this, but.... "people change".This very common phrase didn't blossom from thin air, nor has it flourished without reason.Not to assume your intent here, but... it sounds like a rather harsh judgment made by someone with no experience in that area of life.It's very easy to say what should be done in situations you've never lived through.The sage understanding recognizes that life often takes us places we never planned nor expected to go. Sage understand that even the wisest of us all cannot see the future.

 

It's nice to believe that you can make all of the right decisions. Make your lists, check them twice... do everything the *right* way and everything will turn out as you hoped. It's a nice belief to have, until you discover that life really does not work that way.

 

When we actually live life, we know that such blanket judgments and assumptions cannot be made.

[mammax3]

Very good points. I think one of the problems for me is that simply by being a single parent (well, mother actually, no judgment on the dads in these scenarios I notice) you are judged to be *unhealthy* before anyone knowing that you have been through the processes of leaving an unhealthy relationship, or having a relationship ended by no choice of your own.

 

There are emotionally unhealthy people in marriages & relationships as well. There aren't many people who are single who have never had a relationship end.

 

I am quite shocked that it's quite a commonly held belief on LS that a woman should remain in a marriage at any cost if she has children, or risk being thrown on the scrapheap. Its not a POV I've ever come across IRL.

 

Ah, yes, I think it's different for single fathers because it is generally assumed that they have left the responsibility to the mother and are not an active and equal parent.

 

Life changes give each of us the potential to become more emotionally healthy. Raising children alone is a huge potential to become more healthy, as is dealing with the end of a significant relationship (and more so if there is abuse, infidelity - no judgement there). But if the deep issues and fears are brought out, but not dealt with - well, then we possibly become more unhealthy. I think that is what is scary. Due to sensationalism, we all know more stories of unhealthy acts than healthy and it gives us the [false] idea of what is 'normal'.

[and.then.some]

Ah, yes, I think it's different for single fathers because it is generally assumed that they have left the responsibility to the mother and are not an active and equal parent.

 

Life changes give each of us the potential to become more emotionally healthy. Raising children alone is a huge potential to become more healthy, as is dealing with the end of a significant relationship (and more so if there is abuse, infidelity - no judgement there). But if the deep issues and fears are brought out, but not dealt with - well, then we possibly become more unhealthy. I think that is what is scary. Due to sensationalism, we all know more stories of unhealthy acts than healthy and it gives us the [false] idea of what is 'normal'.

 

Very good post!

[silverfish]

Ah, yes, I think it's different for single fathers because it is generally assumed that they have left the responsibility to the mother and are not an active and equal parent.

 

Life changes give each of us the potential to become more emotionally healthy. Raising children alone is a huge potential to become more healthy, as is dealing with the end of a significant relationship (and more so if there is abuse, infidelity - no judgement there). But if the deep issues and fears are brought out, but not dealt with - well, then we possibly become more unhealthy. I think that is what is scary. Due to sensationalism, we all know more stories of unhealthy acts than healthy and it gives us the [false] idea of what is 'normal'.

 

Bolded part : this seems to be the assumption, which I find very sad. I would not consider a relationship with a single father, if he does not have a good relationship with his children ie sees them regularly, and pays child support.

 

As for the rest, I guess there is a lot of scaremongering about single mothers out there, as a lot of the opinions on here seem to be based on the stereotypes that abound. Nobody wants to see themselves as a stereotype, however often there are elements of truth in there.

 

I can see that many single men & women are not interested in someone who already has children. Fine - I'm not interested in them, and I doubt any other single parent is either. You can eliminate those people fairly swiftly by simply telling them you have children. Some men are interested....some of those men have posted on here, and there are many more men who have been divorced, or who have children and so on, who are also single...so still some hope there for the OP.

[Seymore]

The way I see it, if I were to date a girl with a kid, it would help to determine down the line how well I'd be able to maintain a family with this person down the line. I dated a girl who didn't HAVE a kid, but she was watching her 2-year old nephew most of the time, and often times overnights. We'd have the crib set up in my room and the kid would sometimes be up at 2am, but me and my gf had it down. If he was sick, she'd be up rocking him and I'd be getting his medicine. It's no picnic, of course, but we developed a unique kind of teamwork because of the kid.

 

Some people say "Man, I couldn't deal with a woman who has a kid." Do you plan on marrying? If so, do you plan on having children of your own? Because if you do, you're going to be dealing with a woman who has a kid anyway.

[and.then.some]

Bolded part : this seems to be the assumption, which I find very sad. I would not consider a relationship with a single father, if he does not have a good relationship with his children ie sees them regularly, and pays child support.

I agree, and I feel the same way. However, for the part you quoted... there are many women who wouldn't mind dating a man who has children on the weekend or twice a month.

 

I have single friends who openly object to dating men with children, but who have dated the guys whose children are, in effect, put away somewhere. Men with full custody seem to be more rare. There are women out there who are *just as bad* as some men, if not worse, when it comes down to the % of the time he has his children.

 

Sure, they may say they want him to be a "good man", but he would be a better man if the kids live in the corn fields of Indiana. As more children seem to be with the mothers more than the fathers on average, they are unfortunately seen as "less of an inconvenience" to some people out there. Many women dread the thought of being a step-mom...

Edited February 18, 2010 by and.then.some