An open letter on behalf of single mothers...

[blind_otter]

I agree, and I feel the same way. However, for the part you quoted... there are many women who wouldn't mind dating a man who has children on the weekend or twice a month.

Many women dread the thought of being a step-mom...

 

I'm sorry. I laughed out loud when I read this because you are spot on.

 

My ex had an older son from a previous marriage. I was fine with it for 4 years - every other weekend. Then the boy's mother packed up the boy's clothes in trashbags and left him with us and promptly moved to canada. The other side of canada, as far geographically from her son as she could get. Suddenly, this child was ours - full time. And I had a baby with my ex already.

 

I had no idea the depth and breadth of this child's emotional and behavioral problems until he moved in with us. Suddenly there were constant parent teacher conferences, the kid got in trouble with the cops (criminal mischief).

 

Being a step mom is very hard. VERY HARD.

 

That said, in therapy when we were trying to work things out the therapist (who has 25 years of counseling experience) made it clear that blended families are extremely difficult to manage.

 

Blended families are hard as hell to keep together.

[silverfish]

I agree, and I feel the same way. However, for the part you quoted... there are many women who wouldn't mind dating a man who has children on the weekend or twice a month.

 

I have single friends who openly object to dating men with children, but who have dated the guys whose children are, in effect, put away somewhere. Men with full custody seem to be more rare. There are women out there who are *just as bad* as some men, if not worse, when it comes down to the % of the time he has his children.

 

Sure, they may say they want him to be a "good man", but he would be a better man if the kids live in the corn fields of Indiana. As more children seem to be with the mothers more than the fathers on average, they are unfortunately seen as "less of an inconvenience" to some people out there. Many women dread the thought of being a step-mom...

 

Yes I have observed that strange phenomena too....single girls who romanticise a man with a kid, when the man doesn't behave like a parent, contribute financially, or have any responsibilty....odd.

 

It's like the guy said earlier though, a Dad who *does* see his kids actually has less time than the mother, as his w/ends are taken up with his children, whereas she gets hers off...luckily both me & my ex have flexibilty in our work hours so that doesn't happen, and our kids are older and go to school.

[sagetalk]

1. Maybe like with parenthood, you have to experience this to understand this, but.... "people change".This very common phrase didn't blossom from thin air, nor has it flourished without reason.Not to assume your intent here, but... it sounds like a rather harsh judgment made by someone with no experience in that area of life.It's very easy to say what should be done in situations you've never lived through.The sage understanding recognizes that life often takes us places we never planned nor expected to go. Sage understand that even the wisest of us all cannot see the future.

 

2. It's nice to believe that you can make all of the right decisions. Make your lists, check them twice... do everything the *right* way and everything will turn out as you hoped. It's a nice belief to have, until you discover that life really does not work that way.

 

When we actually live life, we know that such blanket judgments and assumptions cannot be made.

 

1. It is not a blanket judgment to say the mature are those who choose their partners wisely, it is truth. Spare me your mocking tone as though I'm some small child. Are you not harshly judging me as naive? It's interesting to see those who throw around the word judgement at others. They are usually the ones who are the most judgmental.

 

Romantic partners often throw up dozens of red flags for their partners to see, but many turn a blind eye to them for selfish reasons. "They are hot", "I'm lonely", "I don't want to look for someone else", "they are great at sex", "I can change the person", and many other stupid reasons people give for looking the other way at red flags at the early stages of a relationship.

 

Are there circumstances when people become someone completely different with no red flags, perhaps. Are these instances rare, I would say so with a resounding yes. I will never believe that love is blind, but I do believe that loneliness and selfishness can be.

 

2. What I'm saying has nothing to do with my life experience or yours, or anyone's. It is simply true regardless of who you are. You can have a happy life lacking in poor decision making. It's up to you.

 

You can make the right decisions, and getting married is just one small decision in a multitude throughout your life. Maybe you have already made this decision (I don't know), but there are many here that have not.

 

Sure, you will make mistakes, but who you marry is one area of your life to make sure you get right. Divorce is no small mistake, it has the potential to change dozens of lives forever and almost never for the better. I feel as time passes, divorce will continue to be looked on a lesser and lesser evil. In my opinion this is detrimental to society. It ruins lives (particularly the child) and causes people in romantic relationships to lose trust in each other for the long term. It's not something to simply shoo off as a, "nobody's perfect" non issue.

[silverfish]

1. It is not a blanket judgment to say the mature are those who choose their partners wisely, it is truth. Spare me your mocking tone as though I'm some small child. Are you not harshly judging me as naive? It's interesting to see those who throw around the word judgement at others. They are usually the ones who are the most judgmental.

 

Romantic partners often throw up dozens of red flags for their partners to see, but many turn a blind eye to them for selfish reasons. "They are hot", "I'm lonely", "I don't want to look for someone else", "they are great at sex", "I can change the person", and many other stupid reasons people give for looking the other way at red flags at the early stages of a relationship.

 

Are there circumstances when people become someone completely different with no red flags, perhaps. Are these instances rare, I would say so with a resounding yes. I will never believe that love is blind, but I do believe that loneliness and selfishness can be.

 

2. What I'm saying has nothing to do with my life experience or yours, or anyone's. It is simply true regardless of who you are. You can have a happy life lacking in poor decision making. It's up to you.

 

You can make the right decisions, and getting married is just one small decision in a multitude throughout your life. Maybe you have already made this decision (I don't know), but there are many here that have not.

 

Sure, you will make mistakes, but who you marry is one area of your life to make sure you get right. Divorce is no small mistake, it has the potential to change dozens of lives forever and almost never for the better. I feel as time passes, divorce will continue to be looked on a lesser and lesser evil. In my opinion this is detrimental to society. It ruins lives (particularly the child) and causes people in romantic relationships to lose trust in each other for the long term. It's not something to simply shoo off as a, "nobody's perfect" non issue.

 

I don't really understand the point you are trying to make. Is it simply that single parents should quit moaning because they made a mistake in their choice of partner? If that's the case, I sort of agree...

 

If however, you're trying to say that everyone who has divorced should have known what they were getting into from the moment they met their partner...well how can you *know* how someone will behave in the future, in very different circumstances to the one you are in when you first met.

 

There are so many possiblities as to how things might turn out, it would be impossible to make that decision, and commit to somone.... so if i took your advice, I would never have had a relationship at all.

[and.then.some]

Sagetalk: The more you try to explain your position, the more obvious it is that your position is based in lack of experience. No, that is not a judgment, it's a state of being. No, I don't mean that as an insult, even if you do happen to find my remarks insulting. Sorry for that, but it does not change that fact of what's glaringly obvious in your posts regarding this.

 

According to your theory, every single person who does their best in school, plans as well as they know how... goes on to complete their masters, will land a job in their desired field upon graduation. Only in a perfect world... Sagetalk, you can plan for the moon and the stars. You can set down and over-think every single detail of your life, and you know what... life will still happen to you.

 

I agree that people should make careful decisions. However, to claim "if they had only ... in the first place" is clearly coming from a place of naivety. Yes, there are millions of people in the world who make bad choices when it comes to dating, marriage, sex, and relationships. Sometimes those choices were well thought out, other times they were made out of desperation. You can think as long and hard as you'd like, but there's no guarantee that you won't miss something. Why? Because past experience is one of the things that dictates the choices we make. Sometimes you don't know what could go wrong until you've been through it.

[and.then.some]

Blended families are hard as hell to keep together.

 

Yeah, it is hard to know how things will turn out. Each child has his/her own opinions and reactions to their parents' new partners, and for a wide variety or reasons too. My oldest thinks I should remarry. My youngest hates the thought of me even having a boyfriend. (He told me that he worried that someone would take my attention away from him. aaawww.... he's 5.) They're with the grands when I have a date, so they've been none the wiser.

 

When my parents divorced, I had no problems with the thought of them remarrying. I just had a problem with the thought of having 4 parents telling me what to do!

[SincereOnlineGuy]

... the kids will always be more important than is the potential date/spouse/etc... AND they should be.

 

 

However, as a potential date/spouse/etc... it is that person's right to decide whether he wishes to play 2nd (3rd, 6th, 9th) fiddle in that situation.

 

 

I can accept that the OP is/was frustrated, but she did nothing for herself by expressing herself in that way.

 

 

IF instead hers had been an effort to justify the morality in getting herself to the place she reached, by following the dream, and having it fail for one reason or another, then fine, we won't condemn her for her path to the present.

 

But now, "her in the present" represents half of a brand new potential equation for the person to whom her words are directed. He's free to choose, in all cases, whether the big picture of her is suitable for him. He's also free to say no, and should be allowed to do so without being knocked for making his own choice, when the person knocking him is basically defending HER past choices all the while.

 

Indeed single motherhood is a tricky place to be...

[Scottdmw]

As a single man, looking for marriage myself, here are some points I think about.

 

People talk about 50% of marriages ending in divorce, but that is a little bit oversimplified. The rate for first marriages is rather better, more like 25%. But, for second marriages and up it is really bad. In other words, statistically once someone has one divorce they are likely to get divorced again. It is not the case that people learn from a divorce and do better the second time, more like the opposite is true.

 

Another statistical fact is that something like two thirds of divorces or more are initiated by the woman.

 

I really don't want to get divorced. I look at these statistics and I'm very hesitant to date a divorced woman even if she has no children. I'm already taking a pretty big chance just by getting married at all that I will do everything right as best I understand it anyway, and my wife will still somehow lose attraction for me and decide to leave, taking with her a significant part of my wealth without having to offer me anything in return.

 

I would also really like to have my own children. I guess people can call me selfish but that is what I want. If I were to marry a woman who already had children, I would feel like she got to have her cake and eat it too. She got to be with some man that didn't treat her really well maybe but that she was wildly attracted to and have his children, then she gets to have me take care of her and them for the rest of their life.

 

Women, I know you don't consciously make decisions to try to do things like that, but my honest belief is that your feelings of attraction will lead you to do things like that in the absence of you making a strong effort not to. I will certainly admit that men's feelings of attraction can equally lead them astray in different ways. This is the way I see it happening. When a woman is young she will often quickly sleep with whatever man she is wildly attracted to, without taking the time to get to know what his qualities are. Once they are having sex, it is very difficult for her to see red flags. She goes ahead and marries him, they have a few kids, and the chemistry fades as it tends to in almost any relationship. She starts seeing the man's true colors, not because he changes but because she loses the rose-colored glasses of the first few years of a sexual relationship. She decides she doesn't like him much after all, and leaves. She tells herself that she has now learned what she really likes, she is mature now, and goes and marries a stable dependable man who will treat her well. This seems eminently reasonable to her. However, the stable dependable man does not get to have children of his own.

 

So, as a man who tends more to the stable dependable type, I feel like I will get screwed so to speak if I marry a woman who already has children. I don't feel like in general I can believe a woman when she says that a man changed and that's why she left him. Did he change the way he was acting? Maybe. Did his basic character change? I really doubt it. It only revealed itself. Then there is always the other side of the story, what the man would say about how she changed, or why he did the things that he did. A woman who divorces a man will generally paint a picture of how she was not at fault, but it's difficult to really judge that without talking to both of them for quite a long time. That's not really an option usually in dating.

 

So, as a single man my strong preference is to date other women in a similar situation to myself, never married with no children. I'm sorry if that seems unfair, but believe me there are many things that seem unfair to me that I have come to accept as simply the way things are. I guess I would not outright say I would never date such a woman, but it would have to be a pretty unusual situation I think. Certainly with something like online dating, I would just never go there.

 

Scott

[blind_otter]

Another statistical fact is that something like two thirds of divorces or more are initiated by the woman.

 

Statistical facts have no merit, IMO, unless they are contextualized. Why do you think 2/3 of divorces are initiated by women? You fail to mention the fact that, according to sterile statistics taken out of context, many more men than women are unfaithful in marriage. That makes no sense.

 

If I were to marry a woman who already had children, I would feel like she got to have her cake and eat it too. She got to be with some man that didn't treat her really well maybe but that she was wildly attracted to and have his children, then she gets to have me take care of her and them for the rest of their life.

 

This is a ridiculous statement. I am sorry if that is dismissive, but raising a child as a single parent does not involve any sort of cake eating, IME.

 

When a woman is young she will often quickly sleep with whatever man she is wildly attracted to, without taking the time to get to know what his qualities are. Once they are having sex, it is very difficult for her to see red flags.

 

Yes, this is true of men as well.

 

She starts seeing the man's true colors, not because he changes but because she loses the rose-colored glasses of the first few years of a sexual relationship.

 

This speaks of your inexperience. People do change. As you age, you realize this more and more. Having a child changes people more than most experiences, even beyond losing a dearly held loved one (in my personal experience, having my son changed me more than losing my dear father). It is impossible NOT to change. Every morning, your brain is different when you wake up. This is just a biological reality.

 

So, as a single man my strong preference is to date other women in a similar situation to myself, never married with no children. I'm sorry if that seems unfair/QUOTE]

 

This does not seem unfair at all (to me, at least), your opinions are such that you would not be a good match with a single mother.

[marlena]

Having a child changes people more than most experiences, even beyond losing a dearly held loved one (in my personal experience, having my son changed me more than losing my dear father).

 

Yes, these are the two things in my life that changed me the most although at the core I have always remained the same. Perhaps, it would be more accurate to say that they did not change who I am but changed my view of the world around me.

 

BO, I saw the picture of your son and father and it was the saddest thing I've ever seen. I am so sorry.

[torranceshipman]

OP I mean this in the best possible way - your post sounded desparate - desparate for other people to say you are worth something. Who cares what other people think...you are healthy, relatively young, you have beautiful children and some really good memories of life with your H before things went bad, of interesting experiences as a military W, of volunteering. All good stuff - stuff to be proud of. You are in a great situation. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. You're lucky - make the best of what you have and you'll have a great future.

 

Commitment phobic men dont care if you have kids or not - read the billion and one stories posted here by single gals who consistently meet commitment phobes, losers, etc. This is a universal issue...you will meet someone in the end but having a poor me, please validate me and tell me my life was worth something attitude will aggressively turn off potential partners.

 

Edited to add: these commitment phobic men will just substitute the line 'i want to concentrate on my career right now' or whatever for 'i am unsur about getting serious because of the kids'. Easy bail, that is all it is - any lame excuse....you have a lot going for you so just hold out until the right person comes along.

Edited February 22, 2010 by torranceshipman

[torranceshipman]

Sagetalk, you can plan for the moon and the stars. You can set down and over-think every single detail of your life, and you know what... life will still happen to you.

 

This is a great post. It's true...planning can put you in the best possible situation but that still leaves room for so many things you can't directly control. You can lower the odds, sure - but the odds are still there. Sagetalk, when you get older and have a lot more life experience you will see this.

[Scottdmw]

Statistical facts have no merit, IMO, unless they are contextualized. Why do you think 2/3 of divorces are initiated by women? You fail to mention the fact that, according to sterile statistics taken out of context, many more men than women are unfaithful in marriage. That makes no sense.

 

One link I just found listed the relative adultery rates as 22% of men and 14% of women. Maybe you have different studies. Assuming this one is right, it is true that more men than women cheat. However, it's not hugely more. Also, this is just one issue that can cause divorces.

 

There are an awful lot of men on this board who claim at least that their wives decided one day that they were no longer attracted and left, with no infidelity or abuse or anything else serious involved.

 

I don't think it's possible to really figure out what percentage of women are justified in leaving. It would be subjective anyway. My original point was simply that as a man I already have a lot less control than I would like over whether a wife leaves me.

 

 

 

 

This is a ridiculous statement. I am sorry if that is dismissive, but raising a child as a single parent does not involve any sort of cake eating, IME.

 

Raising a child as a single parent does not, but what I was talking about is the woman that has a child with one man and gets another man to raise it, a man whom if she had met at the same time as the first man she would have dismissed as being not attractive enough for her. That is the woman who is having her cake and eating it too, IMHO. I'm not saying she's a bad person at all for doing so. I'm just saying I don't want to be the second man.

 

 

 

 

This speaks of your inexperience. People do change. As you age, you realize this more and more. Having a child changes people more than most experiences, even beyond losing a dearly held loved one (in my personal experience, having my son changed me more than losing my dear father). It is impossible NOT to change. Every morning, your brain is different when you wake up. This is just a biological reality. .

 

But, do the kinds of changes you are talking about here reflect changes to a person's fundamental character, especially as it regards how a man would treat his wife? It is hard to believe that a man would become abusive to his wife after they had a child together, if he was not already predisposed to being abusive. I would think that having a child would generally tend to make someone a better person. If the stress of raising an infant causes someone to act abusively, it seems like that would have been apparent in their response to other stressful situations before.

 

BTW, I suspect I'm the same age or older than you. Maybe I've had different experiences than you, but is it really useful to call me inexperienced if you don't agree with my opinions?

 

Scott

[blind_otter]

Raising a child as a single parent does not, but what I was talking about is the woman that has a child with one man and gets another man to raise it, a man whom if she had met at the same time as the first man she would have dismissed as being not attractive enough for her. That is the woman who is having her cake and eating it too, IMHO. I'm not saying she's a bad person at all for doing so. I'm just saying I don't want to be the second man.

 

The reality of blended families is that the non-biological parent very often is secondary to the biological parents when it comes to raising the child from the previous relationship. I've lived it.

 

In any event, I am very aware that everyone in the community helps to raise a child - the nuclear family is a very recent invention, if you know your sociology. I willingly and happily contribute to the raising of all the children in my circle, and God knows there are like 50 of them or thereabouts, now. 9 or them in my own extended family.

 

But, do the kinds of changes you are talking about here reflect changes to a person's fundamental character, especially as it regards how a man would treat his wife? It is hard to believe that a man would become abusive to his wife after they had a child together, if he was not already predisposed to being abusive. I would think that having a child would generally tend to make someone a better person. If the stress of raising an infant causes someone to act abusively, it seems like that would have been apparent in their response to other stressful situations before.

 

You've never been around an infant, I assume, for long periods of time. The first year of a child's life is often jokingly referred to as "baby jail" for a real reason. NO other life experience can compare to the hell of a colicky baby that screams for no reason 6 hours a day for 3 weeks straight. Except maybe torture.

 

In any event, yes, I can personally attest to the fact that having my son changed me in a deep, fundamental way that I could never have imagined or even conceived of, until I first touched the crown of his head as I gave birth to him.

 

BTW, I suspect I'm the same age or older than you. Maybe I've had different experiences than you, but is it really useful to call me inexperienced if you don't agree with my opinions?

 

Age has nothing to do with life experience - I've just been unlucky enough to have lived enough for 3 lifetimes already. I've been married, divorced, a step parent, a biological parent, and a single mother. I assume that this gives me a more experienced perspective in terms of the specific issues of this thread.

Edited February 22, 2010 by blind_otter

[carhill]

OP, what exactly is your intent here? Do you just want glad handing from like-minded females or do you want honest feedback from *men* whom would become your dating partners? Who is your letter to?

 

To be clear, I don't take cr@p, whether straightforward or side-handed, from women anymore. A really unhealthy marriage cured me of that. 50 years of supporting women and their issues and getting 'goofy' cr@p in return gives me the perspective I have now. Your gender earned it. Look around at the men you're writing your letter to. Then look around at your fellow womanites. Look in that mirror. Take yourselves to task. Own your responsibility.

 

Over and out..

[Pratchett]

As a now-adult child of a single parent, this is an excellent thread, it really speaks to a lot of what I've been trying to work through lately. I'm a guy, who was raised by my father after my parents divorced when I was 4 (it was a mutual decision, my parents both agreed he'd be the better caretaker, tho I'm still in touch with my mom)

 

So, partly this issue speaks to my own experiences as a child, when my father was trying to get back on track, dating as a single parent (I think this was when I was about 6-10yrs old). At times when he couldn't find or afford a sitter, I'd be taken along if it was a concert or a movie etc (I can't fault him for his lack of childcare choices, his options were limited). I never really figured out that these were "dates", just social/friends stuff. Or if he did tell me, or I knew, I didn't let it "process" internally. I also don't know if those events were entirely comfortable for me or his date, and none of the women he did date ever made it past the acquaintance stage as far as I know (he never got remarried).

 

So I really sympathize with the single-parent dilemma(s), it's a huge issue in lots of ways and I'm sure it affected me greatly, as I've since heard. Supposedly there was even a period of time before I hit 10 that I was completely shut down emotionally, at least enough for him to notice and worry- and he was dealing with a lot of stuff, so it must have been pretty significant for him to have noticed it. My point isn't to make single parents feel bad, god no, but just share as to how it could be a very positive thing for a child, if a single parent can start a new, stable relationship. Ideally, the kid should be able to benefit from the additional emotional support and increased stability the second adult represents (ideally, anyway). I think a couple of other posts said that as well, and they're absolutely right. If it leads to a more stable, affirming life, it's a good thing for everyone involved, right?

 

But my other reaction is as a now-single adult. I agree with how Blind_Otter put it, the original post was trying to get readers to feel more positive about dating a single parent. I'd like to feel positive about that choice myself, except that it evokes in me the feeling I'm being told I should be satisfied with living vicariously, rather than have the option of directly experiencing the fuller set of life experiences that the birth parent has had. I hope that makes sense in the way I've put it. It certainly makes me feel hypocritical- I should be supportive and open to providing the sort of additional stability and support that I did not have- etc etc- if the occasion is presented. Or no? I wrestle with this.

 

I will mention: I'm also going to a cognitive therapist who is herself a single parent. I certainly appreciate the patience she's shown when this particular discussion comes up. Some of this personal reticence reflects my life situation- as a 39 yr-old who didn't get into his first dating relationship until 26, possibly my "need" to have the option of raising "my" family is more valid. I doubt that- 3/4s of the world lives in abject poverty, who am I to claim even better life experience than what I've already gotten?. I also worry that in dating a single mom I wouldn't be entering into a co-equal relationship, a 50/50 split of emotional attention and compromise- there would always be a significant re-direct on either side to the child's needs. Finally, children are simply unpredictable, they haven't developed emotional dependability, and environmental cause-and-effect is also unpredictable. A great 6 year old can become a drug- or violence addicted teen- even if every step of the parenting process has been perfect. That's a huge gamble. My single-parent therapist tells me that single parents don't date with the expectation of gaining a second parenting unit, but… it's hard for me to accept that statement as-is.

 

I'm not posting this as a counter-argument! I'm offering it as examples of what I am trying to resolve: even though I feel like I should know better, these are real feelings of fear that on some level feel very rational and "right" to me. My guess is that these same fears are probably the core of the issue in general. Emotional commitment, compromise and trust being at core of any relationship. It does seem to me that younger singles will not be as aware of these issues, not have as much perspective on what they are getting involved with, and may not represent the best option for single parents as long-term partners. I could be wrong about that as well. Generalizations always run up against exceptions.

 

Sorry for such a long post, clearly I've been thinking about this stuff for awhile now- I don't expect any answers. I'm just very glad this thread has helped me put my thoughts into words.

Thanks.

[Barky]

Men won't even give me a shot and I think it is unfair. I really do.

 

Ask the gene pool if it cares.

 

Problem with the OP is that she's trying to logically convince men to be attracted to her. Ain't gonna happen.

 

It's like a post that reads, "An open letter on behalf of short, balding, poor, socially awkward men." You think that's going to make the women start swooning for 'em?

Edited February 26, 2010 by Barky

[Golfilla]

Ask the gene pool if it cares.

 

Problem with the OP is that she's trying to logically convince men to be attracted to her. Ain't gonna happen.

 

It's like a post that reads, "An open letter on behalf of short, balding, poor, socially awkward men." You think that's going to make the women start swooning for 'em?

 

This is true, but there are plenty of 'logical' reasons for single guys not to pursue single mothers, too, here are a few...

 

1. A lot of childess men are that way by choice. I personally don't want to have kids of my own at this stage of life, consequently I don't have any great desire to be responsible for anybody else's either.

 

2. I don't want to be tied down. Look, I like to go different places on my holidays. Japan this year, after doing Scotland, New Zealand and Western Australia in the last few years. I don't have any particular desire to give that up so I can go to Disneyland every year.

 

3. Your kids will always be top priority in your life, as they should be. Nothing wrong with that at all. However, what happens when we've agreed to go on a date somewhere, maybe I've booked a restaurant, or the accommodation for a weekend away, and suddenly your babysitter cancels at the last minute? Or your kid has the sniffles, or whatever?

 

4. There's no separation from the Ex. OK, this isn't *always* the case, but it happens often enough to be a problem. If you ask any single mother about the father of her kids, in 99% of cases he'll be a jerk. And yet, that jerk can turn up anytime, asking for visitation rights to the kids, and then he's a part of my life as well. Sorry, I'm just not interested.

 

5. Contrary to what the OP said, a lot of single mothers *are* just looking to get a guy to marry them "yesterday" so he can financially support them. Then if the relationship goes south, a judge can (as they have done in the past), order *me* to pay child support for kids that aren't even mine. It's happened before. Now this may not apply to the OP, and I'm sure there are many cases where it doesn't happen, but there are enough where it does to make it not worth the risk.

 

There are others, but those are the main issues as far as I'm concerned.

[atlnay]

I am 36. I just find the stereotypes rude and bothersome. I have worked so hard to come into my own, to take care of my kids and be a centered and happy woman. And all it gets me is a nasty label.

 

but then you just sterotyped single 30something women such as myself as being desperate to get married and i am in nooooooooooooooooo such rush.

 

Dear Potential Date:

 

2) We are not dying to get married unlike my 30something single peers who wanted an engagement ring yesterday.

 

at the end of the day men don't like drama. period. be it from single moms or single women with no kids. and to a degree we both get sterotyped in some fashion that makes us seem desperate and needy.

[Pratchett]

I guess I should've said I wasn't expecting any -solutions- . But if anyone has any answers or feedback for what I posted, that's great.

[Woggle]

My main reason for not dating single moms is that I don't a woman that views men and fathers as disposable and not needed. Too many women have a fatherless kid just to show the world how independent they are and I think that is disgusting.

[Pratchett]

I would also add that perspective-adding line about short, balding, poor, etc. is probably not the best approach to supporting dating efforts, skills, and trust- at least, I don't think that emphasizing perceived faults (rather than perceived strengths or divisions in general) really helps any community or culture build healthy interpersonal relationships... or helps people with dating. My opinion.

[Barky]

I would also add that perspective-adding line about short, balding, poor, etc. is probably not the best approach to supporting dating efforts, skills, and trust- at least, I don't think that emphasizing perceived faults (rather than perceived strengths or divisions in general) really helps any community or culture build healthy interpersonal relationships... or helps people with dating. My opinion.

 

I take the "tough love" approach to enlightening people.

[phineas]

 

5. Contrary to what the OP said, a lot of single mothers *are* just looking to get a guy to marry them "yesterday" so he can financially support them. Then if the relationship goes south, a judge can (as they have done in the past), order *me* to pay child support for kids that aren't even mine. It's happened before. Now this may not apply to the OP, and I'm sure there are many cases where it doesn't happen, but there are enough where it does to make it not worth the risk.

 

There are others, but those are the main issues as far as I'm concerned.

 

I've never heard of this happeneing in New York unless you married her & adopted the kids.

She could however file for alimoney.

Once NYS finds a guy to pay child support, they will make him pay even if it turns out NOT to be his kid. So make sure any single mother is receiveing child support allready. if so, she can never go after you for it.

 

What I do see in NYS is when a man paying child support gets married, the ex-wife goes after his new wife's money to try & boost her child support.

 

That's reason enough for me to never get re-married unless I have custody of the kids.

[troggleputty]

I ended my marriage because my spouse became verbally abusive, and I did not want my children to mirror that in their own marriages someday.It was not an easy choice to make. He was "perfect" before we had kids an then he changed. Not every guy has "future jerk" tattooed on his forehead when the courtship is going on.

 

No one-single mother or not-is entitled to anything. But what we are all entitled to is to be judged not by our social status but by our character.

 

I am open to dating a good man and he could be single with no kids or divorced with kids; it matters not.

 

 

O.K. you said you would like to be judged by your character.

 

Is it not the case that you are or have recently been having an affair with a married man? (According to your posts in other threads.)

 

Your excuse for doing that is you were alone for several years and that he pursued you.

 

Nevertheless, such conduct evidences a complete lack of character on your part.