Coming to a crossroad

[silverfish]

I don't think she would be... we've been together since 22 and she only had another "boyfriend" before me... I had had a few girlfriends... lol

 

I don't think she has any idea about what's "normal"... she has "mental issues" (anxiety and recurrent thoughts) and therefore she is on ADs... I think she's spent most of our married life trying to deal with those and it's not easy...

 

 

 

We did separate and I was looking for a flat for myself... but then she decided to compromise... sex once a week... she asked me. It was fine for a few months, but then we had a 6 week dry spell... the last time she said she wasn't feeling like sex again, I kind of exploded... it was reverting to the usual pattern and I said I didn't want to be in that place anymore... I felt cheated... she said she was having problem with her pills... they didn't seem to be working anymore... how was I suppose to know that?

 

Anyway, after getting angry, she seemed very depressed... I assumed it was the pills... no, it wasn't... it was me getting angry... she said she couldn't take it anymore and her mental state was making things a lot worse... I basically agreed to back off... we will have sex when she feels like and I won't ask... she will find a therapist and also change the meds...

 

So, I just agreed to a sexless marriage, for the sake of her...

 

I don't know what the answer is for you. All I know is that giving ultimatums probably won't work...I tried that but the deadline came & went and nothing had changed. So I left and did exactly what I'd been saying I would do for the previous 2 years....no difference. Nothing changed at all...if anything it got worse

 

She won't change unless she wants to - nothing you can do about it. How long you can live with the sympathy card being constantly played ? Who knows...if my experience is anything to go on though, she won't return the favour. If you were in trouble - would she stick by you ? At this point in your life is this worth sticking with?

[SarahRose]

I also would like to say that I don't have an anger problem... when you are rejected again for sex after 4 weeks of no sex and you don't know why, I think it's pretty normal to get angry, because you are incredibly frustrated. My anger has never been physical, only verbal - without shouting or raising my voice - when I could actually speak... she just made me feel incredibly abnormal. Like a maniac... I didn't know what was normal anymore.

 

 

Friend, I hear you.

 

I'm getting a bit a flack on my thread for my anger and resentment telling me I should do this or that as it will make him resentful towards me.

 

I'm not too concerned about his resentment as he is the one withholding the sex.

 

If he would have sex, there would be no anger and resentment.

 

So say our spouses are just suffering the natural consequences of THEIR actions or non-action.

 

We are humans with feelings and to expect us to just sit quietly is just ridiculous.

 

You know some people play the sick card all their lives. It is a great cop out for life and a great excuse not to have to do anything.

 

Does you wife use sickness to avoid things she doesn't want to do but seems perfectly fine otherwise? Just asking.

[giotto]

How long you can live with the sympathy card being constantly played ? Who knows...if my experience is anything to go on though, she won't return the favour. If you were in trouble - would she stick by you ? At this point in your life is this worth sticking with?

 

not long... these last few months will be crunch time for me... no idea what she would do for me... we never were in that position... I never asked for anything... just giving...

[giotto]

If he would have sex, there would be no anger and resentment.

 

So say our spouses are just suffering the natural consequences of THEIR actions or non-action.

 

We are humans with feelings and to expect us to just sit quietly is just ridiculous.

 

You know some people play the sick card all their lives. It is a great cop out for life and a great excuse not to have to do anything.

 

Does you wife use sickness to avoid things she doesn't want to do but seems perfectly fine otherwise? Just asking.

 

well, exactly... is she using her sickness as an excuse? I think so. She was "troubled" by it, apparently, and then when I said I would forget about sex, her smile returned... the problem is, I don't know what's normal anymore... I need to speak to someone who's in a normal relationship... I'm lost...

[SarahRose]

well, exactly... is she using her sickness as an excuse? I think so. She was "troubled" by it, apparently, and then when I said I would forget about sex, her smile returned... the problem is, I don't know what's normal anymore... I need to speak to someone who's in a normal relationship... I'm lost...

 

When you go to your counseling bring it up.

 

Also think back to past things where she has feigned sick to get out of and then look at things she wants to do. Does she do this with other people? Think back about things and you may find a pattern.

[mem11363]

TDP,

This kind of post rubs me every bit as raw as my worst posts rub you.

 

 

Really when we complain about the lack of sex? I look around and see my friends, my neighbours, contemporaries.... And frankly I don't think there is all this great sex..... I posted my fun little survey where the divorced friends with young girlfriends where they did not live together were having sex 10-12X's a month and the married ones 1-3X's a month.

 

I know others in sexless marriages or divorced and frankly don't see a lot of bed hopping there. I see people content raising kids or or going on with their lives. These women at least the one's I know are all very attractive, intelligent and would have no problems finding men.

 

My spouse was away last week on a beach.... I looked forward to her return, her being relaxed and missing me and happy to have been on a sunny beach vs. freezing temps and snow. Guess what???? She was turned completely off being harrassed by males trying to chat her up and hoping for more (very few daunted by the ring on her finger).....

 

The only ones getting all this sex frankly are those living what seems the "alternate" lifestyle.....

 

So as I see it, maybe we are the one's making too big a deal about it..... Sad but true....

[giotto]

When you go to your counseling bring it up.

 

Also think back to past things where she has feigned sick to get out of and then look at things she wants to do. Does she do this with other people? Think back about things and you may find a pattern.

 

I'm not going to counseling, she is... I've been to IC and MC (together with my wife) and I have nothing more to find out about myself... when we went to counseling together, she didn't bring up any of the stuff she is telling me now... it was a complete waste of time and she suggested it! Maybe she thought I was the one needing fixing... I have no idea...

 

 

The problem is I'm a regular normal guy and all these years with a person who obviously has a different view of reality has made me feel that I am the abnormal one...

[OldEurope]

Really when we complain about the lack of sex? I look around and see my friends, my neighbours, contemporaries.... And frankly I don't think there is all this great sex..... I posted my fun little survey where the divorced friends with young girlfriends where they did not live together were having sex 10-12X's a month and the married ones 1-3X's a month.

 

I know others in sexless marriages or divorced and frankly don't see a lot of bed hopping there. I see people content raising kids or or going on with their lives. These women at least the one's I know are all very attractive, intelligent and would have no problems finding men.

 

My spouse was away last week on a beach.... I looked forward to her return, her being relaxed and missing me and happy to have been on a sunny beach vs. freezing temps and snow. Guess what???? She was turned completely off being harrassed by males trying to chat her up and hoping for more (very few daunted by the ring on her finger).....

 

The only ones getting all this sex frankly are those living what seems the "alternate" lifestyle.....

 

So as I see it, maybe we are the one's making too big a deal about it..... Sad but true....

 

Eh....Speak for yourself, TDP.....

 

Guess what. There are men and women who love being men and women who love having sex with their spouses and long term partners/finacees. There are men and women who still thrill at the sight of each other and refuse the notion that a relationship or a marriage is supposed to be some bleak prison sentence with some screwed up whiner. Going through a dry spell--liveable. Sacrificing yourself to long draughts without sex when you are with someone---ridiculous. And I say this as someone who went through bouts of so called "celibacy" when not in a relationship. I happily survived---it only made me respect and value sex more...

 

As for the "alternate " lifestyles....please. They are just as miserable in their rampant promiscuity as one might be in a long-term relationship gone stale. The whole point to aim for is Passion within stability, within mutual love.

 

 

OE

[OldEurope]

I don't think she would be... we've been together since 22 and she only had another "boyfriend" before me... I had had a few girlfriends... lol

 

I don't think she has any idea about what's "normal"... she has "mental issues" (anxiety and recurrent thoughts) and therefore she is on ADs... I think she's spent most of our married life trying to deal with those and it's not easy...

 

 

 

We did separate and I was looking for a flat for myself... but then she decided to compromise... sex once a week... she asked me. It was fine for a few months, but then we had a 6 week dry spell... the last time she said she wasn't feeling like sex again, I kind of exploded... it was reverting to the usual pattern and I said I didn't want to be in that place anymore... I felt cheated... she said she was having problem with her pills... they didn't seem to be working anymore... how was I suppose to know that?

 

Anyway, after getting angry, she seemed very depressed... I assumed it was the pills... no, it wasn't... it was me getting angry... she said she couldn't take it anymore and her mental state was making things a lot worse... I basically agreed to back off... we will have sex when she feels like and I won't ask... she will find a therapist and also change the meds...

 

So, I just agreed to a sexless marriage, for the sake of her...

 

 

 

Your life has been hijacked by a helpless, hapless shrew. Shame on her, ad shame on you for the above line I put in bold, for throwing one of life's most important experiences down the tubes.

 

OE

[Lizzie60]

I'm late on this thread..

 

I only read that first page.. and I have to agree with mem... if you don't bother her for sex.. she will be in a good mood.. and smiling... if you talk about it, she puts your 'anger issue' on the table..

 

This is MANIPULATION!!! plain and simple...

 

To be honest with you.. I don't really buy the 'mental' issue.. I think she used it because she knows it works with you... she is sexually blackmailing you with this..

 

From what I've read so far from you.. you seem like a real nice guy.. and now that you have told her that you will NOT cheat (you will divorce first)... she knows she can withhold sex all she wants..

 

To be brutally honest with you Giotto... she has NO respect for you... she is selfish... doesn't care about YOUR sanity.. and your well-being.. but she knows YOU care about HERS... and I would go as far as saying that she no longer "loves' you the way you love her..

 

Your situation will NEVER changed... mark my words..

 

Sorry dude... you deserve better...

[Lizzie60]

Plus I have to disagree with the posters who suggest IC for YOU...

 

It's not you.. it's her..

 

A therapist would only tell you that unless she wants to change there is nothing you can do.. and you have to choose what YOU want for YOU in the long run.. because she will most likely never change.

 

So save your money and your time..

 

But from what I've read ... you already have decided that you will 'endure' her selfishness.. her disrespect ... towards you...

 

You won't be the first who will sacrifice their sexlife for the sake of the family... I know many BS (women) who have done it..

 

Good luck.. and keep your sanity in this frustrating process..

[giotto]

well, I'm at a crossroad indeed... no sex for the last 22 days... am I being too beta? You bet! But it's me... next year it will be 25 years together... I'm "only" 47... tough decisions coming up... still don't know what to think... still don't know if she is manipulating me or not... this is how she is... some people might call it gaslighting...

[silverfish]

well, I'm at a crossroad indeed... no sex for the last 22 days... am I being too beta? You bet! But it's me... next year it will be 25 years together... I'm "only" 47... tough decisions coming up... still don't know what to think... still don't know if she is manipulating me or not... this is how she is... some people might call it gaslighting...

 

That's what I'd call it, and emotional abuse. She may respond to a shock such as you saying you'll leave, or having an affair.

 

Thing is, I think once you've decided what you are prepared to accept / not accept, then you must follow it through ruthlessly and be prepared to get no response to that either. So...if you decide you can't live with her any more because of this, be prepared for a long hard slog to get yourself in a happy place again.

 

Two years on I'm not really much better...although I still don't regret my decision to leave one bit. However, if my ex H came to me and said he was prepared to make the effort to meet me halfway though...I'd still say yes to him even now. I think after so much time has passed it's safe to say that's unlikely though

[giotto]

That's what I'd call it, and emotional abuse. She may respond to a shock such as you saying you'll leave, or having an affair.

 

Thing is, I think once you've decided what you are prepared to accept / not accept, then you must follow it through ruthlessly and be prepared to get no response to that either. So...if you decide you can't live with her any more because of this, be prepared for a long hard slog to get yourself in a happy place again.

 

Two years on I'm not really much better...although I still don't regret my decision to leave one bit. However, if my ex H came to me and said he was prepared to make the effort to meet me halfway though...I'd still say yes to him even now. I think after so much time has passed it's safe to say that's unlikely though

 

I'm trying to rationalize all this... it's not blooming easy! I don't know what to believe anymore... it certainly feels like emotional abuse. She knows how important it is for me - there is no connection, no closeness anymore. At the same time, she can't give it to me because she is scared of my reaction if things go wrong... funny, she only has to have sex with once a week and everything would be perfect!

 

Having said that, I ask myself: if you have no libido, no desire whatsoever for sex, is it right of me to demand? How would I feel in her position?

 

Is she really so "ill"? She's seemed fine to me for many years... how can we break the vicious circle of sex, no sex, anger, no sex for weeks?

 

She says she loves me. Is it really that difficult to make a little sacrifice for your husband, then?

 

Is sex really that important in a relationship? Am I being selfish? Am I wired differently? Am I expected to live a sexless life at 47? Should the children (and the cats and the dog... ) come first?

 

It's my youngest daughter's birthday tomorrow... she will be 9 years old. What future will I have with her?

 

And a last note... I'm pretty sure my wife thinks I'm the (emotional) abuser for putting her through this ordeal... I'll never forget what she said: she is scared of me...

Edited February 22, 2010 by giotto

[giotto]

That's what I'd call it, and emotional abuse. She may respond to a shock such as you saying you'll leave, or having an affair.

 

Forgot to add that I told her I was leaving at some point last year... I was looking for a flat. She then decided to compromise. She asked me how often I wanted sex and I said once a week. She agreed to it. Things were going ok, although I would say we were having sex once every 10 days, which was ok with me (great improvement on once a month!). Then, last December/January, it went downhill... we've had sex once (and a bad session - she wasn't "turned on") in 7/8 weeks. She blames her meds...

 

So, telling her I'm leaving won't work. We've been there. Also, I don't want her to have sex with me because "she has to"... it's humiliating. I don't want pity sex...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I'm trying to rationalize all this... it's not blooming easy! I don't know what to believe anymore... it certainly feels like emotional abuse. She knows how important it is for me - there is no connection, no closeness anymore. At the same time, she can't give it to me because she is scared of my reaction if things go wrong... funny, she only has to have sex with once a week and everything would be perfect!

 

Having said that, I ask myself: if you have no libido, no desire whatsoever for sex, is it right of me to demand? How would I feel in her position?

 

Is she really so "ill"? She's seemed fine to me for many years... how can we break the vicious circle of sex, no sex, anger, no sex for weeks?

 

She says she loves me. Is it really that difficult to make a little sacrifice for your husband, then?

 

Is sex really that important in a relationship? Am I being selfish? Am I wired differently? Am I expected to live a sexless life at 47? Should the children (and the cats and the dog... ) come first?

 

It's my youngest daughter's birthday tomorrow... she will be 9 years old. What future will I have with her?

 

And a last note... I'm pretty sure my wife thinks I'm the (emotional) abuser for putting her through this ordeal... I'll never forget what she said: she is scared of me...

 

Well you saw my post and new thread as to whether we make too big a deal about sex..... I'm actually torn when I think about it.

 

What really bothers me is that you have said your wife enjoys sex when you do have it (last encounter aside). Again like me, the idea of 1X/wk with someone who claims she loves you and likes sex when you have it seems like a no-brainer. I take the once per week is not a 4 hour marathon session:laugh:, so we are not talking a huge time constraint.....

 

So again horror or horror we are back to Lizzie60 and her warped view of shelf lives for relationships and that your wife is repulsed by sex with you and it is a chore worse then cleaning toilets (her orgasms aside).

 

I am so confused, lost and sorry for you.....

Edited February 22, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[giotto]

 

I am so confused, lost and sorry for you.....

 

Two of us!

 

She seemed to have gotten over her problem of not being able to cope with confrontation and aggressiveness (although I'm the least aggressive person in the world... ). We did have a few good months... it only took a few unpleasant comments from me (well, after a month of no sex when the "deal" was once a week and I just said I didn't want to get back to the previous situation and that I'd rather be separated) for the whole thing to collapse!

 

As we say in Italian, I really don't know what fish to catch anymore...

 

TDP, and all the others here at LS, I appreciate your support... I really need to know that I'm not "abnormal" in this and that it's fair to be expecting a sexual relationship in my marriage...

[SarahRose]

well, I'm at a crossroad indeed... no sex for the last 22 days... am I being too beta? You bet! But it's me... next year it will be 25 years together... I'm "only" 47... tough decisions coming up... still don't know what to think... still don't know if she is manipulating me or not... this is how she is... some people might call it gaslighting...

 

How are you dealing with the anger and resentment?

 

 

It is day 11 for me and knowing he told me it will be another 22 days before he will even consider it is just making me more angry and resentful.

 

I feel like he is manipulating me too.

 

I tried this morning for 30 minutes and he turned his back towards me.

 

I'm only 47 too.

[silverfish]

Forgot to add that I told her I was leaving at some point last year... I was looking for a flat. She then decided to compromise. She asked me how often I wanted sex and I said once a week. She agreed to it. Things were going ok, although I would say we were having sex once every 10 days, which was ok with me (great improvement on once a month!). Then, last December/January, it went downhill... we've had sex once (and a bad session - she wasn't "turned on") in 7/8 weeks. She blames her meds...

 

So, telling her I'm leaving won't work. We've been there. Also, I don't want her to have sex with me because "she has to"... it's humiliating. I don't want pity sex...

 

Yep, I've been there with the anger thing as well....if you take it, and take it, and you still have self esteem intact, then you will get angry.

 

TBH, I don't know what the best thing for you is - all I know is that whatever you do you'll be 'in the wrong' and doubting yourself while she takes no responsibility for the relationship if it continues....you're between a rock and a hard place as we say

 

After a while you have to wonder...the fact that you are soul searching, doubting yourself, and yes, getting angry, and posting on here....trying to move forward and find a solution...while she is 'ill', you are 'emotionally abusing her', and she is telling you to take it or leave it - basically 'I won't meet you halfway because your feelings are irrelevant'....sorry but just the fact that she won't look inwards and acknowledge your feelings IS emotional abuse.

 

Whatever you decide - your kids will be fine, they need a good example of how to be happy....believe me, I learnt the hard way

[giotto]

How are you dealing with the anger and resentment?

 

 

It is day 11 for me and knowing he told me it will be another 22 days before he will even consider it is just making me more angry and resentful.

 

I feel like he is manipulating me too.

 

I tried this morning for 30 minutes and he turned his back towards me.

 

I'm only 47 too.

 

why 22 days? Well, at least you know when you are going to have sex again!

 

How do I cope with anger and resentment? I cope ok for a many days and then I get, erm... angry? And apparently I'm not supposed to... she said she can't stand me getting angry... mmm... there is a solution to this? No points to whoever guesses it...

 

Looks like I'll be getting out soon...

[NoIDidn't]

I am so sorry to see that you have reached this state in your marriage. I am even more sorry for some of the responses you have been getting that only serve to insult your W and feed your hurt and anger about the situation.

 

I think your best option for help is a trained and qualified therapist/counsellor. MC and sex therapy may be a huge help. Its clear that you love your W and you aren't there only for the possibility of sex.

 

If therapy is out of the question, there are books on the subject that may help you to a great extent. I know you are perfectly able to take what you can actually use from these posts, but I can't help but feel that the negative things said about your W by (mostly) strangers may be hurting whatever chances you have at fixing this issue in an acceptable manner.

 

And no offense meant to the "strangers" as I know that are trying to help.

 

I am far from a "moralist" but don't see how infidelity is going to help this marriage. It would be using another woman for the sex that you lack in your marriage. And it would be hurtful and extremely emotionally damaging to a woman that is already depressed.

 

I am really sorry you are facing this. I hope a clear head prevails, no matter what decisions you feel you face.

[giotto]

sorry but just the fact that she won't look inwards and acknowledge your feelings IS emotional abuse.

 

the problem is that she is unable to look inwards... that's why I'm destroyed... after all these years nothing has changed and I've lost all hope...

[giotto]

I am so sorry to see that you have reached this state in your marriage. I am even more sorry for some of the responses you have been getting that only serve to insult your W and feed your hurt and anger about the situation.

 

I think your best option for help is a trained and qualified therapist/counsellor. MC and sex therapy may be a huge help. Its clear that you love your W and you aren't there only for the possibility of sex.

 

If therapy is out of the question, there are books on the subject that may help you to a great extent. I know you are perfectly able to take what you can actually use from these posts, but I can't help but feel that the negative things said about your W by (mostly) strangers may be hurting whatever chances you have at fixing this issue in an acceptable manner.

 

And no offense meant to the "strangers" as I know that are trying to help.

 

I am far from a "moralist" but don't see how infidelity is going to help this marriage. It would be using another woman for the sex that you lack in your marriage. And it would be hurtful and extremely emotionally damaging to a woman that is already depressed.

 

I am really sorry you are facing this. I hope a clear head prevails, no matter what decisions you feel you face.

 

thank you... we have tried MC, but we failed... she seems to be unable to open up and communicate anymore... and she suggested it! It was a massive waste of time. Unpleasant stuff came up, but no solution...

 

If I suggested books to read she would feel under pressure and she would not read them. She would say yes, but they would be left untouched...

 

I feel that, because she is playing the "illness" card, I have even less power to deal with our issues. I have no idea, because she is very reluctant to talk about it. Can't push it, because she withdraws even more in her shell... believe me, I've tried everything...

[silverfish]

I am so sorry to see that you have reached this state in your marriage. I am even more sorry for some of the responses you have been getting that only serve to insult your W and feed your hurt and anger about the situation.

 

I think your best option for help is a trained and qualified therapist/counsellor. MC and sex therapy may be a huge help. Its clear that you love your W and you aren't there only for the possibility of sex.

 

If therapy is out of the question, there are books on the subject that may help you to a great extent. I know you are perfectly able to take what you can actually use from these posts, but I can't help but feel that the negative things said about your W by (mostly) strangers may be hurting whatever chances you have at fixing this issue in an acceptable manner.

 

And no offense meant to the "strangers" as I know that are trying to help.

 

I am far from a "moralist" but don't see how infidelity is going to help this marriage. It would be using another woman for the sex that you lack in your marriage. And it would be hurtful and extremely emotionally damaging to a woman that is already depressed.

 

I am really sorry you are facing this. I hope a clear head prevails, no matter what decisions you feel you face.

 

I completely agree that sex therapy specifically, which does completely involve emotional issues relating to sexual problems, may help if she would agree.

 

If you make it very clear to her that if you go down the road of sex therapy / MC, that you will not get angry, or deviate from the instructions you are given (and they are specific, requiring self control at times), maybe an agreement to that, with a time limit (these things are expensive and time / emotionally consuming), then at least you can say you gave it your best shot.

[silverfish]

thank you... we have tried MC, but we failed... she seems to be unable to open up and communicate anymore... and she suggested it! It was a massive waste of time. Unpleasant stuff came up, but no solution...

 

If I suggested books to read she would feel under pressure and she would not read them. She would say yes, but they would be left untouched...

 

I feel that, because she is playing the "illness" card, I have even less power to deal with our issues. I have no idea, because she is very reluctant to talk about it. Can't push it, because she withdraws even more in her shell... believe me, I've tried everything...

 

She has to search her own soul and find out what it's going to take to make herself happy....you arent responsible for doing that for her. Getting 'well' is her responsibilty not yours