Coming to a crossroad

[mem11363]

This is the truth. If I remember right his wife refused him sex for many many years with NO explanation - talk about mental cruelty.

 

Now she is playing the "i am sad" card. This is a tradeoff - he WILL give up some amount of longevity by agreeing to open ended celibacy.

 

If she wasn't selfish she would sit him down, tell him she loves him enough to care about his life/stress level/longevity and that she INSISTS that he go find a lover. THAT is what a decent human would do in this situation if they really found sex so unpleasant.

 

 

I don't think your wife will ever get out of her difficult period unless something forces her to - like her husband being done. Comfort does not provoke change. Change provoke change.

 

Two unhappy parents is an unhappy marriage and that is not healthy. I was a child in an unhappy marriage and family for most of my young life. I don't wish that on anybody. My parents were toxic for each other and made each other unhappy. My mom thought my dad would never leave - in spite of all their arguments. It was good he left her. She would have never changed. Unfortunately, my mother is not very strong mentally due to childhood issues neither but it is better she is on her own than together with a husband she can't make happy and he can't make her happy.

 

You know. Many people grow up with childhood traumas and choose to work on ourselves and try to become "happy and normal". Others simply accept the truth as "I will never be "normal" or happy". Don't encourage the refusal to change. If my mother had worked on her issues I'd been less messed up than I am, I can tell you that. If my dad had left sooner - I'd been less messed up.

 

By hurting you - she is hurting the entire family unit. Do not allow that. You seem like a really devoted husband and a nice guy - but I can promise you that staying is not always best for the wellbeing of the family when one parent is unhappy. I wanted my dad to be happy. Your kids would want that for you too.

[nddb]

I would do MC, and then give her the "come to jesus" talk. If it doesn't work out, I'd bail sooner rather than later.

 

You don't want to be old and sick, looking back and wish you hadn't pissed your life away and passion and other things worth living for in an unfulfilling relationship.

 

At some point, excuses get old. What she is doing smacks of unfeeling cruelty and lack of regard for your needs.

 

I'm sorry this happens to you my friend. I work hard and do everything I can to keep it from happening in my own relationship--recognizing that but for the grace of god, there goes I.

[giotto]

I'm not trying to justify my wife, but it can't be easy having to deal with mental illness, family and work all at the same time... what I blame her for is not communicating with me. I had no idea how bad it was and I don't understand why she kept the seriousness of it secret... I think my behaviour would have been completely different and we would be someplace different by now. Am I angry about this? You bet I am!

 

Yesterday she said she would go to IC after I offered to pay for it. This is a step forward.

 

I don't know if we can talk about being "cruel" to me when you are battling with your own demons. Yes, she did refuse sex without any explanation. Yes, she did reject me expecting me to understand something I had no idea of. Yes, she is expecting me now to wait in a sexless marriage whilst she fixes herself... the point is: I don't think I can wait that much longer...

Edited February 18, 2010 by giotto

[Ronni_W]

Am I angry about this?

G,

It's also that you're feeling angry because your wife has (human) flaws and limitations, suffers from unresolved traumatic childhood experiences/ memories, and does not have the skills to process and communicate her deeper feelings and fears.

 

Is "anger" really the most appropriate emotional response and, going forward, how is "anger" going to help you, your wife or your marriage?

I mean, yes, you have suffered your own pain and disappointment -- and you do need to heal that -- but, for your wife (and marriage), maybe you could set a goal to 'go deep' and try to connect with your gentler emotions...empathy, compassion, understanding, forgiveness. Maybe?

 

I'd also encourage you to think in terms of her being "unhealed" and in need of healing; not broken and needing to be "fixed". It's a kinder way of thinking about her that will translate into your softer heart. She's a human being, flawed not broken. Toasters and automobiles break and need fixing.

 

If you commit to holding a kinder view of her, then you'll be a step ahead in being able to hold patience, empathy and understanding as you support her through this. It's going to be a rough and bumpy ride, especially for her but also for your kids, you and your marriage.

 

And you'll be pleasantly surprised at the emotional connection that you'll start to experience once you start to consistently hold positive feelings in your mind, heart and body. You've been telling yourself that you can only or mostly feel emotionally intimate through sex, but that's not accurate. Especially not when what you're getting is pity sex, and/or your wife doing it as part of her "marital duties", and/or to get you to stop whining and complaining.

 

Everybody and everything is counting on you to be the positive force and backbone. There is NO ROOM for your anger, blame, resentment and complaining because your wife's mental and emotional states leave her unable to enjoy her own satisfactory sex life, nevermind be a 'good' sexual partner.

Your anger and complaining will have to wait. You are being called upon to delay gratifying your angry, blaming and resentful feelings, and your (self-centered) demands for sex.

 

Can you do it? Do you have the desire to do what is best for your wife, your family and your marriage?

 

Yes, she is expecting me now to wait in a sexless marriage whilst she fixes herself

I highly doubt she is looking at it in those terms. I'd suspect she is much more focused on her unresolved pain, and inability to be the wife she'd once envisioned she would be, and feeling really crappy about how she has "failed" you, and feeling really abandoned by Life, and judged and rejected by you.

 

Turn it around on yourself. Make it so that you WANT to wait in a sexless marriage, that you're WILLING to wait in a sexless marriage...because you doing that will help your wife finally, FINALLY be able to have a happy and fulfilling life, and marriage, and sex life!

 

And you doing that will fulfill your own desire for a happy, intact family.

And you doing that is what YOU need to do to have your own happy and successful marriage.

 

By definition, emotional intimacy means using one's emotions to feel intimately connected to one's partner -- giving and receiving positive emotions. Non-sexual hugs, massages, hand-holding also contribute.

 

the point is: I don't think I can wait that much longer...

That is going to be your free will choice, G. No one is going to be holding a gun to your head telling you to leave, or when to leave.

 

The point is: THIS is the woman you chose to build a life with, for good and for bad, in sickness and in health. YOU made that promise of your free will.

 

Your wife is ready to go into counseling EVEN THOUGH she has great doubts and fears about it. (We know that cos of her previous BS excuses to not go.) But she's willing to go into counseling now, and it is for YOU, G. For her relationship with you. For her family.

 

Your wedding vows mean that you stay. That you suck up whatever you have to suck up. That you stop being a victim and step UP into a leadership role. Your OWN desires for an intact family and happy marriage demand it.

 

Can you do it? Are you willing to pay the price if you choose to not do it? Are you willing to put your family through a divorce because, basically, you're not getting sex according to your own schedule of needs for sex?

 

G, it's going to get worse before it gets better. When your wife really gets into her 'core healing' it is going to be horrible for her (given how you've explained where she is at the moment.) This is the "in sickness and for worse" that you made a promise to endure with her. It's only starting.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Ronni_W

[mem11363]

Ronni,

I have a suggestion - Giotto has his wife take a polygraph to find out the truth. I think he will find that the truth is as I describe it below.

 

I mean you are telling him to give up a big chunk - frankly I think it will be the entire rest of his life - on a set of assumptions you are making when you haven't read all his prior posts.

 

She shut him off sexually for about a decade without explanation and ONLY when he threatened to leave did she explain she simple had lost her sexual attraction to him a decade earlier.

 

But she only did that under duress, this is actually very rational behavior if you ask me - she wanted him to stay - his paycheck to stay and knew the truth might risk that.

 

Everyone has emotional issues - she is healthy enough to work where she keeps stable employment, and interacting with their 4 kids which requires a HIGH level of sanity. She only becomes this sick, needy woman when Giotto insists that she show him physical love.

 

My theory:

She very much dislikes sex with him and is now wrapping it in the "I had a difficult childhood" She wasn't raped/sexually abused. She had a bunch of stuff happen that made her upset as a child. EVERYONE has had that.

 

I would actually respect her if she simply was honest and told him that she just sexually is averse - and she doesn't really know why and no longer cares - that the aversion is not fixable and she therefore is ok with him getting his needs met elsewhere. She is NOT saying that because she is completely rational, is concerned he will fall in love with another woman and will then leave and TAKE HIS PAYCHECK with him.

 

I think a polygraph would establish:

- She simply cannot stand having sex with him - see some of Lizzies posts about her ex husband

- She does not want the financial stress a divorce would cause

- She wants HIS love and support and money and therefore does NOT want to risk him finding another woman and leaving her hence the reason she is adamant that he: NOT HAVE SEX WITH HER AND NOT HAVE SEX WITH ANYONE. She has basically made him celibate for most of their marriage and is now shooting to make that the remainder of his adult life.

- It does not really bother her that he is very very unhappy as long as he does not direct anger towards her

 

 

 

 

 

G,

It's also that you're feeling angry because your wife has (human) flaws and limitations, suffers from unresolved traumatic childhood experiences/ memories, and does not have the skills to process and communicate her deeper feelings and fears.

 

Is "anger" really the most appropriate emotional response and, going forward, how is "anger" going to help you, your wife or your marriage?

I mean, yes, you have suffered your own pain and disappointment -- and you do need to heal that -- but, for your wife (and marriage), maybe you could set a goal to 'go deep' and try to connect with your gentler emotions...empathy, compassion, understanding, forgiveness. Maybe?

 

I'd also encourage you to think in terms of her being "unhealed" and in need of healing; not broken and needing to be "fixed". It's a kinder way of thinking about her that will translate into your softer heart. She's a human being, flawed not broken. Toasters and automobiles break and need fixing.

 

If you commit to holding a kinder view of her, then you'll be a step ahead in being able to hold patience, empathy and understanding as you support her through this. It's going to be a rough and bumpy ride, especially for her but also for your kids, you and your marriage.

 

And you'll be pleasantly surprised at the emotional connection that you'll start to experience once you start to consistently hold positive feelings in your mind, heart and body. You've been telling yourself that you can only or mostly feel emotionally intimate through sex, but that's not accurate. Especially not when what you're getting is pity sex, and/or your wife doing it as part of her "marital duties", and/or to get you to stop whining and complaining.

 

Everybody and everything is counting on you to be the positive force and backbone. There is NO ROOM for your anger, blame, resentment and complaining because your wife's mental and emotional states leave her unable to enjoy her own satisfactory sex life, nevermind be a 'good' sexual partner.

Your anger and complaining will have to wait. You are being called upon to delay gratifying your angry, blaming and resentful feelings, and your (self-centered) demands for sex.

 

Can you do it? Do you have the desire to do what is best for your wife, your family and your marriage?

 

I highly doubt she is looking at it in those terms. I'd suspect she is much more focused on her unresolved pain, and inability to be the wife she'd once envisioned she would be, and feeling really crappy about how she has "failed" you, and feeling really abandoned by Life, and judged and rejected by you.

 

Turn it around on yourself. Make it so that you WANT to wait in a sexless marriage, that you're WILLING to wait in a sexless marriage...because you doing that will help your wife finally, FINALLY be able to have a happy and fulfilling life, and marriage, and sex life!

 

And you doing that will fulfill your own desire for a happy, intact family.

And you doing that is what YOU need to do to have your own happy and successful marriage.

 

By definition, emotional intimacy means using one's emotions to feel intimately connected to one's partner -- giving and receiving positive emotions. Non-sexual hugs, massages, hand-holding also contribute.

 

That is going to be your free will choice, G. No one is going to be holding a gun to your head telling you to leave, or when to leave.

 

The point is: THIS is the woman you chose to build a life with, for good and for bad, in sickness and in health. YOU made that promise of your free will.

 

Your wife is ready to go into counseling EVEN THOUGH she has great doubts and fears about it. (We know that cos of her previous BS excuses to not go.) But she's willing to go into counseling now, and it is for YOU, G. For her relationship with you. For her family.

 

Your wedding vows mean that you stay. That you suck up whatever you have to suck up. That you stop being a victim and step UP into a leadership role. Your OWN desires for an intact family and happy marriage demand it.

 

Can you do it? Are you willing to pay the price if you choose to not do it? Are you willing to put your family through a divorce because, basically, you're not getting sex according to your own schedule of needs for sex?

 

G, it's going to get worse before it gets better. When your wife really gets into her 'core healing' it is going to be horrible for her (given how you've explained where she is at the moment.) This is the "in sickness and for worse" that you made a promise to endure with her. It's only starting.

[Ronni_W]

Mem, I am asking G to consider HIS OWN goals and desires, and to then decide what *might* be the best way for him to achieve his own goals and fulfill his own desires.

I get his challenges; I get his pain and disappointment.

But he has also consistently said that he wants his family to remain together.

 

Giotto, IMO, you need to decide for yourself what strategy is *most likely* to support your own goals and desires. There are no guarantees...I'm pretty sure you're well aware of that.

And, just to be clear, I'm not telling you what to do or not do. I'm offering a different way of looking at it, and a different way of going about getting what YOU want. It's not "the" way, and it may not even be workable.

 

But you're perfectly capable of making such decisions for yourself, and free to reject anything and everything that does not resonate with you or that you determine will not be helpful or useful.

 

At the end of the day, my wish is for your happy marriage that will inspire and support all of you -- husband, wife and children.

Hugs and best.

[giotto]

My theory:

She very much dislikes sex with him and is now wrapping it in the "I had a difficult childhood" She wasn't raped/sexually abused. She had a bunch of stuff happen that made her upset as a child. EVERYONE has had that.

 

I would actually respect her if she simply was honest and told him that she just sexually is averse - and she doesn't really know why and no longer cares - that the aversion is not fixable and she therefore is ok with him getting his needs met elsewhere. She is NOT saying that because she is completely rational, is concerned he will fall in love with another woman and will then leave and TAKE HIS PAYCHECK with him.

 

I think a polygraph would establish:

- She simply cannot stand having sex with him - see some of Lizzies posts about her ex husband

- She does not want the financial stress a divorce would cause

- She wants HIS love and support and money and therefore does NOT want to risk him finding another woman and leaving her hence the reason she is adamant that he: NOT HAVE SEX WITH HER AND NOT HAVE SEX WITH ANYONE. She has basically made him celibate for most of their marriage and is now shooting to make that the remainder of his adult life.

- It does not really bother her that he is very very unhappy as long as he does not direct anger towards her

 

mem, you are partially right... you are wrong, though, when you say that she cannot stand having sex with me. It's not that. She loves it, but she can't get there. This because when she had low libido (for many reasons... her issues, ADs, small children), I put her under considerable pressure (also because of her non-existant communication skills), which created a vicious circle. When she rejected me because of her lack of libido (didn't know this), I would get hurt and cross and say hurtful things to her. This is normal when you are rejected with no reason or explanation... she hates it when I get cross and resentful and she hates confrontation and aggressiveness... it's her defense mechanism. So, she now equates having sex with me getting angry, for some reason. Her problem is not knowing how to deal with someone who is upset, like me. She retreats into her shell... she stopped touching me or being affectionate with me because she think that I will want sex...

 

Now, she needs to fix this, otherwise we'll never be ok. She also needs to fix her issues... she needs therapy... but how long is this going to take? She promised to get counselling before and it never happened. I've been hurt too many times and I don't know now if I can wait so long and then be hurt again... I don't know if I can do this... I just want a normal life...

Edited February 19, 2010 by giotto

[giotto]

Mem, I am asking G to consider HIS OWN goals and desires, and to then decide what *might* be the best way for him to achieve his own goals and fulfill his own desires.

I get his challenges; I get his pain and disappointment.

But he has also consistently said that he wants his family to remain together.

 

Giotto, IMO, you need to decide for yourself what strategy is *most likely* to support your own goals and desires. There are no guarantees...I'm pretty sure you're well aware of that.

And, just to be clear, I'm not telling you what to do or not do. I'm offering a different way of looking at it, and a different way of going about getting what YOU want. It's not "the" way, and it may not even be workable.

 

But you're perfectly capable of making such decisions for yourself, and free to reject anything and everything that does not resonate with you or that you determine will not be helpful or useful.

 

At the end of the day, my wish is for your happy marriage that will inspire and support all of you -- husband, wife and children.

Hugs and best.

 

I'm having a big wobble, actually ... I haven't made a decision or my mind up... her sister is staying at the moment and it's half term here, so family life is not the same... we'll see when we return to "normal" next week...

[Ronni_W]

I'm having a big wobble, actually

Hugs, G.

Basically you first need to figure out what you want most, for your life, for the long-term.

 

If you want a divorce, then keep doing what you've been doing...or just call it done now, and hire yourself the best divorce lawyer you can afford.

If you want a divorce, then we all start singing, "Gio's a saint and his wife is the sinner; Gio is excellent and his wife sucks."

However.

*If* you want to have a mutually rewarding marriage and keep your family together, then you'll have to stop blaming and resenting...and start taking responsibility for fixing all your issues and problems, and learning new-better relationship skills.

 

It's not rocket science. Your own long-term goals and desires will give you clear indications of what will be in your own best interest to do next.

[giotto]

Basically you first need to figure out what you want most, for your life, for the long-term.

 

 

Absolutely...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Hugs, G.

Basically you first need to figure out what you want most, for your life, for the long-term.

 

If you want a divorce, then keep doing what you've been doing...or just call it done now, and hire yourself the best divorce lawyer you can afford.

If you want a divorce, then we all start singing, "Gio's a saint and his wife is the sinner; Gio is excellent and his wife sucks."

However.

*If* you want to have a mutually rewarding marriage and keep your family together, then you'll have to stop blaming and resenting...and start taking responsibility for fixing all your issues and problems, and learning new-better relationship skills.

 

It's not rocket science. Your own long-term goals and desires will give you clear indications of what will be in your own best interest to do next.

 

We all have issues. I am not perfect and neither is Giotto. Is he partially responsible for reaching this point in his marriage? Of course. Is it a scorecard (i.e. Giotto is 40% to blame, spouse 60%)???? No it is not, but unfortunately it is, where one is certain they have put more into it. What Giotto wants is a semblance of a decent sex life (as do many of us). To me it sounds like little to ask if you've pulled your weight, maintained a semblance of attractiveness, are ggg (good, generous, giving) in bed.... Fair or not, I think it is little to ask. If it can't be reciprocated, maybe divorce (or an arrangement) is the only option....

[silverfish]

If your wife is complaining of low libido, has she been checked out physically?

 

I think I read you have 4 children, and not sure of their ages, but I know that some women who have scarring / tears during childbirth often lose a lot of sensitivity. The scars often hurt, or are extremely sensitive and irritating. Often they can be helped with laser surgery.

 

Does she ever suffer from stress incontinence which can be brought on by sex? A lot of women get this and say nothing for years.

 

I think sex therapy could help if there are no physical problems because it's also relationship therapy. Do you think she would agree to something like this, or even read a few books on the subject so you could discuss it together?

 

The ADs are probably not helping at all either, but she shouldn't be taking them long term anyway without therapy these days, and I'm surprised a doctor would allow this and keep prescribing them as she sounds fairly functional.

 

If she does decide to stop taking them, this would need to be managed slowly, and with the doctors supervision. My ex H stopped taking his overnight and had a 'psychotic episode' which was rather interesting

 

Sorry you're going through this...

[mem11363]

Ronni,

I have to agree with TDP on this. No one is suggesting Giotto is a saint nor that his wife is a demon. What we are saying is this. If your spouse says "in order to feel loved, to be happy I need you to do this thing for me" whatever that thing is. It is abusive to say "I don't want to, and I am not even going to try". And regardless of their words - the refuser in a sexless marriage is basically saying that. Their message is "I am totally comfortable with your misery" and THAT is parasitic. And I use that term in the most literal biological sense. Her behavior will ultimately shorten his lifespan. Chronic stress from this type situation takes an ugly toll over time.

 

It is parasitic when one person takes benefit from the relationship with the other, resources (time and money), love and support, protection, etc. while at the same time they deny their partner's basic core need and not only deny them, do so with an absence of both:

- guilt and

- any sincere effort to change

 

She has already told him it is too late for her too change. And she may reluctantly go to counseling but that is simply divorce avoidance it is not a sincere effort to fix herself so she can be a decent wife. She has already revealed her true intentions - she asked him why he simply can't learn to live without sex permanently - despite her knowing how important this is to him.

 

As for her negative association with Giotto getting mad at her for years of sexual rejection - of course he did. This would be like if I had a chronic spending habit and every time I spent a of money and put it on our credit cards my wife got angry at me. And I blamed her for it. And yes I do equate the chronic stress of telling a normal drive spouse no, no, no to sex for years - with the financial stress of having a partner who puts you into the poor house.

 

 

Hugs, G.

Basically you first need to figure out what you want most, for your life, for the long-term.

 

If you want a divorce, then keep doing what you've been doing...or just call it done now, and hire yourself the best divorce lawyer you can afford.

If you want a divorce, then we all start singing, "Gio's a saint and his wife is the sinner; Gio is excellent and his wife sucks."

However.

*If* you want to have a mutually rewarding marriage and keep your family together, then you'll have to stop blaming and resenting...and start taking responsibility for fixing all your issues and problems, and learning new-better relationship skills.

 

It's not rocket science. Your own long-term goals and desires will give you clear indications of what will be in your own best interest to do next.

[nddb]

Ronni,

I have to agree with TDP on this. No one is suggesting Giotto is a saint nor that his wife is a demon. What we are saying is this. If your spouse says "in order to feel loved, to be happy I need you to do this thing for me" whatever that thing is. It is abusive to say "I don't want to, and I am not even going to try". And regardless of their words - the refuser in a sexless marriage is basically saying that. Their message is "I am totally comfortable with your misery" and THAT is parasitic. And I use that term in the most literal biological sense. Her behavior will ultimately shorten his lifespan. Chronic stress from this type situation takes an ugly toll over time.

 

It is parasitic when one person takes benefit from the relationship with the other, resources (time and money), love and support, protection, etc. while at the same time they deny their partner's basic core need and not only deny them, do so with an absence of both:

- guilt and

- any sincere effort to change

 

She has already told him it is too late for her too change. And she may reluctantly go to counseling but that is simply divorce avoidance it is not a sincere effort to fix herself so she can be a decent wife. She has already revealed her true intentions - she asked him why he simply can't learn to live without sex permanently - despite her knowing how important this is to him.

 

As for her negative association with Giotto getting mad at her for years of sexual rejection - of course he did. This would be like if I had a chronic spending habit and every time I spent a of money and put it on our credit cards my wife got angry at me. And I blamed her for it. And yes I do equate the chronic stress of telling a normal drive spouse no, no, no to sex for years - with the financial stress of having a partner who puts you into the poor house.

 

 

ding ding ding.

 

I'll add that what Giotto desires is perfectly natural and one of the fundamental aspects (not the only one, but an important one) of a married life.

[silverfish]

Ronni,

I have to agree with TDP on this. No one is suggesting Giotto is a saint nor that his wife is a demon. What we are saying is this. If your spouse says "in order to feel loved, to be happy I need you to do this thing for me" whatever that thing is. It is abusive to say "I don't want to, and I am not even going to try". And regardless of their words - the refuser in a sexless marriage is basically saying that. Their message is "I am totally comfortable with your misery" and THAT is parasitic. And I use that term in the most literal biological sense. Her behavior will ultimately shorten his lifespan. Chronic stress from this type situation takes an ugly toll over time.

 

It is parasitic when one person takes benefit from the relationship with the other, resources (time and money), love and support, protection, etc. while at the same time they deny their partner's basic core need and not only deny them, do so with an absence of both:

- guilt and

- any sincere effort to change

 

She has already told him it is too late for her too change. And she may reluctantly go to counseling but that is simply divorce avoidance it is not a sincere effort to fix herself so she can be a decent wife. She has already revealed her true intentions - she asked him why he simply can't learn to live without sex permanently - despite her knowing how important this is to him.

 

As for her negative association with Giotto getting mad at her for years of sexual rejection - of course he did. This would be like if I had a chronic spending habit and every time I spent a of money and put it on our credit cards my wife got angry at me. And I blamed her for it. And yes I do equate the chronic stress of telling a normal drive spouse no, no, no to sex for years - with the financial stress of having a partner who puts you into the poor house.

 

I have to agree with a lot of this post, especially the bolded part. Just wondered...is there anything she has asked G to do to meet her needs...something that is just as important to her as the sex issue is to him?

[giotto]

I have to agree with a lot of this post, especially the bolded part. Just wondered...is there anything she has asked G to do to meet her needs...something that is just as important to her as the sex issue is to him?

 

mmm... I'll answer tomorrow...

[SarahRose]

I think your wife is full of it and just making excuses not to have sex with you.

 

Sure AD really kill a sex drive. They do.

 

Why on earth is she on them?

 

I think a lot of people use them as a crutch. Have her go to a naturopath and get some natural remedies for depression.

 

If you have blown up at her and said hateful hurtful things, that can sting for long long time.

 

Go to MC by yourself.

 

That is what I am doing.

 

I am in a new marriage and my husband doesn't want to have sex anymore.

 

But...he expects me to be monogamous as going outside the marriage is cheating. I mean really where do they get off with forcing us into celibacy?

[giotto]

I think your wife is full of it and just making excuses not to have sex with you.

 

Sure AD really kill a sex drive. They do.

 

Why on earth is she on them?

 

I think a lot of people use them as a crutch. Have her go to a naturopath and get some natural remedies for depression.

 

If you have blown up at her and said hateful hurtful things, that can sting for long long time.

 

Go to MC by yourself.

 

That is what I am doing.

 

I am in a new marriage and my husband doesn't want to have sex anymore.

 

But...he expects me to be monogamous as going outside the marriage is cheating. I mean really where do they get off with forcing us into celibacy?

 

I'm trapped, because she is basically saying it's my fault for getting angry when we don't have sex and that turns her off... she is also "ill" and can't cope with aggression and anger. As I said before, I had to agree not to have sex until she "recovers"... and I don't know when that will be... could be months, could be never...

[giotto]

I have to agree with a lot of this post, especially the bolded part. Just wondered...is there anything she has asked G to do to meet her needs...something that is just as important to her as the sex issue is to him?

 

well, when I got all resentful, I isolated myself from the family. She asked me to be more with the family -but not with her - and I didn't because I didn't feel part of the family... my connection with my wife wasn't there anymore. We weren't a family, we were two people looking after some kids. So, basically, it was a vicious circle, but a situation I didn't create in the first place... it's been very difficult for me. It's been years of hurt and rejection and I didn't know why...but I know now... it might be too late, though...

[giotto]

I also would like to say that I don't have an anger problem... when you are rejected again for sex after 4 weeks of no sex and you don't know why, I think it's pretty normal to get angry, because you are incredibly frustrated. My anger has never been physical, only verbal - without shouting or raising my voice - when I could actually speak... she just made me feel incredibly abnormal. Like a maniac... I didn't know what was normal anymore.

[silverfish]

well, when I got all resentful, I isolated myself from the family. She asked me to be more with the family -but not with her - and I didn't because I didn't feel part of the family... my connection with my wife wasn't there anymore. We weren't a family, we were two people looking after some kids. So, basically, it was a vicious circle, but a situation I didn't create in the first place... it's been very difficult for me. It's been years of hurt and rejection and I didn't know why...but I know now... it might be too late, though...

 

Ok, I can relate to that. I have 2 boys, and my exH would often make me feel isolated from them...maybe not intentionally, but because we were having problems, I guess it was easier to just 'leave me out' rather than deal with me. It's a pretty ****ty thing to do...

 

My point is - she's the one making you feel isolated, not needed, and rejected...Asking you to do more with the family isn't helping to solve the problem, she's just making you feel worse than you already feel by adding something else for you to feel upset about.

 

So, my question about her needs, I guess she hasn't answered. I managed to get mine into 3 sentences...it's quite difficult to cut through all the arguments and upset to be so analytical as that, but it's possible. My ex H still can't do that.

 

Can you try and and write down in 3 or 4 sentences what your needs are in your relationship (not just the ones not being met), and get her to do the same? Then you could discuss it from there.

[giotto]

 

Can you try and and write down in 3 or 4 sentences what your needs are in your relationship (not just the ones not being met), and get her to do the same? Then you could discuss it from there.

 

she won't do that... she says she loves and she wants to be with me. She says we have a nice family, but we are not sexually compatible. She says that she knows other couples (I suppose work colleagues) in sexless marriages and they are fine about it. She thinks it's normal. She hates seeing me unhappy but she can't give me what it would make me happy.

 

Some months ago - I suppose stressed out because of my unhappiness and grumpiness - she asked me: "What can I do to make you happy?" I said: "Have more sex with me". She replied: "No, not that"... there you go!

 

 

I suppose I'll just have to be myself and be happy on my own, at the moment... we'll see what happens...

[silverfish]

she won't do that... she says she loves and she wants to be with me. She says we have a nice family, but we are not sexually compatible. She says that she knows other couples (I suppose work colleagues) in sexless marriages and they are fine about it. She thinks it's normal. She hates seeing me unhappy but she can't give me what it would make me happy.

 

Some months ago - I suppose stressed out because of my unhappiness and grumpiness - she asked me: "What can I do to make you happy?" I said: "Have more sex with me". She replied: "No, not that"... there you go!

 

 

I suppose I'll just have to be myself and be happy on my own, at the moment... we'll see what happens...

 

I wonder if she would be compatible sexually with anyone. She's trying to make it into a neutral problem, and using examples of other couples to try and say it's normal, but its not true. I hope the IC works, but she sounds pretty thick skinned about it.

 

Have you asked her how she would feel if you ended up leaving or having an affair? Lots of people do that too in your situation...

[giotto]

I wonder if she would be compatible sexually with anyone. She's trying to make it into a neutral problem, and using examples of other couples to try and say it's normal, but its not true. I hope the IC works, but she sounds pretty thick skinned about it.

 

I don't think she would be... we've been together since 22 and she only had another "boyfriend" before me... I had had a few girlfriends... lol

 

I don't think she has any idea about what's "normal"... she has "mental issues" (anxiety and recurrent thoughts) and therefore she is on ADs... I think she's spent most of our married life trying to deal with those and it's not easy...

 

Have you asked her how she would feel if you ended up leaving or having an affair? Lots of people do that too in your situation...

 

We did separate and I was looking for a flat for myself... but then she decided to compromise... sex once a week... she asked me. It was fine for a few months, but then we had a 6 week dry spell... the last time she said she wasn't feeling like sex again, I kind of exploded... it was reverting to the usual pattern and I said I didn't want to be in that place anymore... I felt cheated... she said she was having problem with her pills... they didn't seem to be working anymore... how was I suppose to know that?

 

Anyway, after getting angry, she seemed very depressed... I assumed it was the pills... no, it wasn't... it was me getting angry... she said she couldn't take it anymore and her mental state was making things a lot worse... I basically agreed to back off... we will have sex when she feels like and I won't ask... she will find a therapist and also change the meds...

 

So, I just agreed to a sexless marriage, for the sake of her...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Really when we complain about the lack of sex? I look around and see my friends, my neighbours, contemporaries.... And frankly I don't think there is all this great sex..... I posted my fun little survey where the divorced friends with young girlfriends where they did not live together were having sex 10-12X's a month and the married ones 1-3X's a month.

 

I know others in sexless marriages or divorced and frankly don't see a lot of bed hopping there. I see people content raising kids or or going on with their lives. These women at least the one's I know are all very attractive, intelligent and would have no problems finding men.

 

My spouse was away last week on a beach.... I looked forward to her return, her being relaxed and missing me and happy to have been on a sunny beach vs. freezing temps and snow. Guess what???? She was turned completely off being harrassed by males trying to chat her up and hoping for more (very few daunted by the ring on her finger).....

 

The only ones getting all this sex frankly are those living what seems the "alternate" lifestyle.....

 

So as I see it, maybe we are the one's making too big a deal about it..... Sad but true....

Edited February 20, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic