Lizzie60 Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 So....should us men in sexless or near sexless marriages, who have wives who just no longer enjoy sex, tell them to admit that they really don't want sex with us...and leave? Is it worth bothering to expect anything more? To be bluntly honest with you JamesM... it will NOT change.. the only thing is .. your wife will never admit it.. she will never tell you, unless you're both on the verge of divorce.. that she no longer desire you... and really wouldn't mind if she never or rarely had sex with you for the rest of your life... Don't expect more.. if you can't live with what you have.. you need to decide what you want... if you stay.. you will always have to deal with this problem... until YOU are too old and lose your libido.. then you'll both be on the same level..
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 LIZZIE: Is this man yanking my chains? I think Lizzie60 has been pretty blunt in her assessment....BTW JamesM, you've found your way back to these types of threads.... Thought we lost you.....
tnhusband Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 I posted on this topic a while ago - I think it was in James' sexless thread. To the OP - maybe take a look at that thread as there were good and different ideas there - including my own theories of course My 2 cents: 1. All sexless spouses are going to be different - male & female - they are all going to respond differently to all these various ideas. No one here can tell you what will work - we can only make suggestions based on our own experiences - deep down you need to figure her out but most importantly....#2 2. You can not change her directly - you can only change you - and hope that she is turned on by the changes you make in yourself. If you make positive changes in you then even if it does not result in more sex you have improved yourself in some way. It's a win no matter what. I used to think my wife was just lazy but as soon as I stopped being a child about the chores and I just did things without griping or expecting a reward - things got better. First the chores are done, second she's not so tired as we are sharing the resposibilites, and third the household is a happier one. 3. I really believe it's important to recognize that I doubt she's doing this on purpose, or to be lazy etc - she is just not in the mood sexually - you have to figure out how to change that - get her in mood! My wife's libido has increased based on several things - I have no idea if any of them or all of them helped: 1. I started working out - so I look more attractive 2. I stopped begging and whining about sex - definitely not a turn on for her. 3. I became more assertive - more manly - I don't ask her where are we going to dinner - I tell her. She of course still has a say so but I make a lot more of the decisions. The big decisions are still made jointly. Somewhat along the lines of the alpha-male concept - I am not a jerk towards her - I'm just not such a nice-guy ALL the time. 4. Sometimes I am very aggressive sexually and f her even if she is not in the mood - most of the time she loves it. Not always but we have our whole life together - things aren't always going to be perfect. A few times she's even done the same thing to me. 5. We started exploring our sexuality as a couple by going to sex clubs - she gets very turned on by the attention she gets from other guys and girls. I recognize this is a huge problem for many people but I'm just sharing my experiences. She now thinks about sex as much or more than I do - planning our next adventure keeps her turned on and in the mood. We only have these adventures like 2-3 times a year. But we now have sex about 1000% more than we used to. Our libido's are much more aligned. I don't think anyone really wants to have sex with their spouse if they are only doing it to be nice, be a good spouse or because they love you - it's so much better when your spouse really wants sex. Your mismatched libidos are the problem - it's that simple. OP - good luck finding what increases your wifes libido - as it's going to be different for her than anyone else in the world. But you know her the best so maybe you can figure it out. It could be anything - but you have to be willing to make changes - not her. You cannot change her. I do have a hard time explaining the concept and for that I am sorry.
mem11363 Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 TDP, I never claimed to be a magician and have not sugar coated my situation. I don't think there is only one right answer though IME certain patterns of behavior consistently produce a bad outcome and I comment accordingly. The biggest difference between us is that I genuinely want you and the other men to SUCCEED. I want you to be treated fairly by your wives and to be happy with your love life. Seems like you anxiously await the day I will come on here and say "my wife is now refusing me sexually". You seem to focus on and find comfort in men who are worse off than you in terms of sexual satisfaction. And your message is - this is not fixable - all is lost. But worse than that - the guys who HAVE succeeded in turning this around - you ignore them/reject what they have to say. Instead of being happy for them, their existence seems to make you resentful. I find it fascinating that you don't see the almost "lottery like" improbability of you and Lizzie sparring online. She says about her ex husband "we were ALWAYS together". The caps represents her distaste for that situation and she correlates it in some manner to her sexual aversion. And in a moment of transparency you mentioned that your wife explained to you that the reason your divorced male friends are constantly having sex with their GFs is that they are not around each other all the time/not living together full time. Sounds frighteningly similar to Lizzies comment. And hey maybe you reacted to that and dramatically dropped the amount of time you spend with her and nothing happened. You never said one way or the other. And possibly once you over saturate someone with your presence for too many years there is no way to reverse the impact it is had on their desire for you. Probably varies from person to person. I just found the whole thing puzzling - for years you complain to your wife about a lack of sex - finally she tells you that constant presence is a turnoff and you acted as if she hadn't told you anything. And explain like you have to every man here that you have the answer and it is your Alpha Male mantra that will work with every woman on the planet..... Geez Lizzie60, Giotto's, JamesM's, PKB57's, Jeff1962's and my wife would all fall under your spell and have sex with you 4/5 X's a week..... and be still madly in love after 20+ years.... Mem11363, you have missed your calling..... My suggestion is take all your posts, re-work them, take them to a publisher and prepare for appearances on Oprah, Ellen, Regis/Kelly, a lecture tour and couple or male retreats espousing "Reclaiming the Alpha in you and Your Sex Life":laugh:...... Lizzie60 - While I vehemently disagree with you and your cadre of females who all seem to have the same view of relationships, who am I to argue as every male on here complaining about their lack of sex, is feeding your hypothesis.....
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 TDP, I never claimed to be a magician and have not sugar coated my situation. I don't think there is only one right answer though IME certain patterns of behavior consistently produce a bad outcome and I comment accordingly. The biggest difference between us is that I genuinely want you and the other men to SUCCEED. I want you to be treated fairly by your wives and to be happy with your love life. Seems like you anxiously await the day I will come on here and say "my wife is now refusing me sexually". You seem to focus on and find comfort in men who are worse off than you in terms of sexual satisfaction. And your message is - this is not fixable - all is lost. But worse than that - the guys who HAVE succeeded in turning this around - you ignore them/reject what they have to say. Instead of being happy for them, their existence seems to make you resentful. I find it fascinating that you don't see the almost "lottery like" improbability of you and Lizzie sparring online. She says about her ex husband "we were ALWAYS together". The caps represents her distaste for that situation and she correlates it in some manner to her sexual aversion. And in a moment of transparency you mentioned that your wife explained to you that the reason your divorced male friends are constantly having sex with their GFs is that they are not around each other all the time/not living together full time. Sounds frighteningly similar to Lizzies comment. And hey maybe you reacted to that and dramatically dropped the amount of time you spend with her and nothing happened. You never said one way or the other. And possibly once you over saturate someone with your presence for too many years there is no way to reverse the impact it is had on their desire for you. Probably varies from person to person. I just found the whole thing puzzling - for years you complain to your wife about a lack of sex - finally she tells you that constant presence is a turnoff and you acted as if she hadn't told you anything. Don't you know mem11363 it is like a lottery.... I could just as easily have met a Lizzie60 or your wife..... You don't seem to understand that you simply are LUCKY.... Did you create that luck??? Yes you have. But at the end of the day there are so many variables, which you do not seem to realize as you repeat your mantra over and over..... Do I want males happy.... More then anything. Do I rejoice in their unhappiness and "sexless" marriage.... Of course not. Lizzie is the one on this site, neither in a marriage or a relationship who seems to take great joy in explaining why the marriages are "sexless" and what wives think about their husbands, faking orgasms and not enjoying sex (orgasm or not). Really to Lizzie, women are lying to themselves if they actually do love their spouses and enjoy sex with them after 5/10/20+ years..... And you mem attack me!!!! My wife has plenty of interests as do I. We spend much time together and apart. My job does not require travel, so yes we are often in close proximity, but that means absolutely nothing when it comes to sex. When I talked about friends and their sex lives, it was obviously a comment as to "new" relationships, discovering one another, not living together, exciting settings/dinners/travel not the day to day tedium of bills, family, mortgage, outings..... and frankly these were younger women (i.e. 10-15 years).
giotto Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 I think I live with a very intelligent woman, who, as you all know, has great flaws, but can recognize the bull*** from miles away...
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 Again as for friends in these new relationships, my spouse joked that these women didn't have to live with my friends and didn't see the warts et al....... Yes I found this site reading in my newspaper about "sexless marriages" and finding others, who frankly are in a much more dire situation. Am I rejoicing at the fact most are worse off..... Again no. What I have come to appreciate is how lucky I am in so many facets of my life and with my wife.... So Loveshack I thank you and so does my wife......
Lizzie60 Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 Don't you know mem11363 it is like a lottery.... I could just as easily have met a Lizzie60 or your wife..... You don't seem to understand that you simply are LUCKY.... Did you create that luck??? Yes you have. But at the end of the day there are so many variables, which you do not seem to realize as you repeat your mantra over and over..... Do I want males happy.... More then anything. Do I rejoice in their unhappiness and "sexless" marriage.... Of course not. Lizzie is the one on this site, neither in a marriage or a relationship who seems to take great joy in explaining why the marriages are "sexless" and what wives think about their husbands, faking orgasms and not enjoying sex (orgasm or not). Really to Lizzie, women are lying to themselves if they actually do love their spouses and enjoy sex with them after 5/10/20+ years..... And you mem attack me!!!! My wife has plenty of interests as do I. We spend much time together and apart. My job does not require travel, so yes we are often in close proximity, but that means absolutely nothing when it comes to sex. When I talked about friends and their sex lives, it was obviously a comment as to "new" relationships, discovering one another, not living together, exciting settings/dinners/travel not the day to day tedium of bills, family, mortgage, outings..... and frankly these were younger women (i.e. 10-15 years). tsk .. tsk... tsk... I am simply talking from my personal experience... been there... 18 years living with one.. (29 years total)... plus some of my friends have been with their H for 20+ years... I know how the female psychic works.. (faking O just to get it done with.. come on.. ,, this is done much more than you think)... Women are not lying to themselves... they are lying to their Hs.. OK NOW GUYS! THAT'S ENOUGH! GO TO MY ROOM!!!
JamesM Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 To be bluntly honest with you JamesM... it will NOT change.. the only thing is .. your wife will never admit it.. she will never tell you, unless you're both on the verge of divorce.. that she no longer desire you... and really wouldn't mind if she never or rarely had sex with you for the rest of your life... Will it change? Honestly and to be blunt , I don't know either that it will. And TBH, I think it will be an up and down situation all of our marriage. Does she desire me in the fully sexual sense of the word? Yes and no. She does occasionally (twice this month already...which is enough for me) because she loves me and enjoys the closeness that sex offers. Does she like sex? Not for more than the closeness that it offers for the two of us. And if it meant losing me, then she would learn to "love" sex for the simple reason she does love me. This I know for sure. Don't expect more.. if you can't live with what you have.. you need to decide what you want... if you stay.. you will always have to deal with this problem... until YOU are too old and lose your libido.. then you'll both be on the same level.. And that is why I asked for your opinion even though I knew almost word for word what you would say. I think it is good for those who are in a sexless marriage or with a woman who seems to have lost the desire for sex to sit back and examine this comment here. Personally, I HAVE accepted that this is how it is. I have accepted that it may always be a problem. And I have decided that if sex is important to me and I feel that it lacks, then I will need to resolve that on my own. Oddly, once I made that decision inside, it gave me the feeling that I am not powerless because I no longer made myself powerless. And by doing so, I actually feel LESS like cheating than I did before. I want to stay for many reasons that at this point are more important than a woman who loves sex. And perhaps she has noticed and has then made more overtures for offering sex for both of our benefits. I don't treat her as if I am just waiting for her and begging for sex. I hug her and I kiss her and I love to be with her. I just don't have that puppy dog look on my face as if I am waiting for a treat. I KNOW that if needs be, I will take control. My point is not to make this about me, but as I reread tnhusband's comments again, I can't help but think that he still has the attitude wrong. First, he doesn't know what made his wife change,and second, he seems to have done everything for his wife even though he says he did not. I applaud you for all that you have done, and it seems to have worked. But if it no longer works, will you change or will you you leave? Will you assume that it is you that needs to do something or could it be that the change was only in your wife and she had an inner attitude change unbeknownst to you? I say the same to the others. Change is great, but if the motivation is still to get more sex even if you do not admit that to yourself, then what has been gained? I have made some changes in my life, but none have been for my wife. I know I love her as she is and accept that our lives may not change. Based on that, I assume that any change on my part will not change her attitude whatever may be her reason for a lack of interest in sex. So my motivation is actually for my health and my appearance to others...and yes, other women. I am not seeking out other women and never will. I do not want an affair and will avoid one at all costs. Yet if I wallow in my own alleged misery, then I will of all people be the only miserable one. I choose to lose weight not for my appearance but for my health. I choose to have a night or two out for my own inner relaxation and peace. And as I said in the beginning, I honestly don't expect change from her. If it happens, so be it. I doubt I will love her more or less. I doubt that I will congratulate myself on my changes. If anything, my changes will motivate her changes simply because I am not as clingy to her. And if I need that sexual release and she no longer feels that need, then it has been made clear by her and accepted by me..."if sex is that important to you, then you may have to get it elsewhere." I have decided that it is but it isn't. If she decides that she is happy in her marriage without it, then my choices are to stay or leave. Stay and treat sex as I would if she no longer wanted to cook or clean, or leave and find someone who I love as much as I do her...who also loves sex. Since I cannot fathom finding someone like her, then my choice is clear. Change not for what she may become but change for who you want to become. Expect nothing but happiness for yourself. If she cannot or will not fulfill her end of the bargain and you have exhausted all means to find out why, then focus on yourself and you only. Rambling post that might make some sense. Either way it will start a discussion. TDP, thanks for missing me. I read these threads. I just ran out of comments to make...until today.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 tsk .. tsk... tsk... I am simply talking from my personal experience... been there... 18 years living with one.. (29 years total)... plus some of my friends have been with their H for 20+ years... I know how the female psychic works.. (faking O just to get it done with.. come on.. ,, this is done much more than you think)... Women are not lying to themselves... they are lying to their Hs.. OK NOW GUYS! THAT'S ENOUGH! GO TO MY ROOM!!! Now convince mem11363 that his wife fakes it too:laugh:.....
Quiet Storm Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 I just want to say that I've been with my husband 20 years and I still love having sex with him. There is still a lot of sexual tension with us after all these years. He teases me. Pushes me up against the wall for a deep kiss. Slaps my a*s as I walk by. All that makes me wonder what he is going to do to me later. My husband is a dominant type- but that's the way I like it. I don't want a man that is at my mercy. I don't want a man that spend his days thinking of how to "prep" me for sex. I definitely don't want someone that can't be himself. It seems like some of these guys are walking on eggshells all the time...hoping not to ruin the slight chance that she may possibly want sex tonight. It makes them look pathetic... they have to be all nice and compliant so they don't blow their shot. This is not the way, guys! This is so unsexy. Speak up! Tell her what you want. Take a stand. Be a man! Seriously, weak men are NOT HOT! I want a man that knows what he wants and takes it. I have that kind of guy and maybe that's why I still want to fnck him after 20 years and three kids.
mem11363 Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 QS, Great screen name. Yesterday is a perfect example of that. During the day we traded light body shots - that happens when two strong willed people with an edge are married. I never for a second stopped to think - "wait if I reply in this rough manner - she might get mad and not want to ***k tonight" Seriously WTF? She was being difficult - I gave as good as I got. I call it "low intensity conflict". Nobody raises their voice, or uses bad language. And nobody makes generally nasty comments like "you are always/you are never - you are stupid -etc" it is just adult / mature - conflict. And it hurts a little. So what. Just before dinner I said something about work - not meaning anything sexual and she smiled and turned it into a double entendre. So I knew what was going to happen later. And what had been an edgy day slowly turned into a romantic toned night and then a very nice connection. But the edgy conflict of the earlier part of the day just makes the afterglow nicer. IMO. Avoiding conflict in the hope of getting laid is an almost sure path to celibacy. I just want to say that I've been with my husband 20 years and I still love having sex with him. There is still a lot of sexual tension with us after all these years. He teases me. Pushes me up against the wall for a deep kiss. Slaps my a*s as I walk by. All that makes me wonder what he is going to do to me later. My husband is a dominant type- but that's the way I like it. I don't want a man that is at my mercy. I don't want a man that spend his days thinking of how to "prep" me for sex. I definitely don't want someone that can't be himself. It seems like some of these guys are walking on eggshells all the time...hoping not to ruin the slight chance that she may possibly want sex tonight. It makes them look pathetic... they have to be all nice and compliant so they don't blow their shot. This is not the way, guys! This is so unsexy. Speak up! Tell her what you want. Take a stand. Be a man! Seriously, weak men are NOT HOT! I want a man that knows what he wants and takes it. I have that kind of guy and maybe that's why I still want to fnck him after 20 years and three kids.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 QS, Great screen name. Yesterday is a perfect example of that. During the day we traded light body shots - that happens when two strong willed people with an edge are married. I never for a second stopped to think - "wait if I reply in this rough manner - she might get mad and not want to ***k tonight" Seriously WTF? She was being difficult - I gave as good as I got. I call it "low intensity conflict". Nobody raises their voice, or uses bad language. And nobody makes generally nasty comments like "you are always/you are never - you are stupid -etc" it is just adult / mature - conflict. And it hurts a little. So what. Just before dinner I said something about work - not meaning anything sexual and she smiled and turned it into a double entendre. So I knew what was going to happen later. And what had been an edgy day slowly turned into a romantic toned night and then a very nice connection. But the edgy conflict of the earlier part of the day just makes the afterglow nicer. IMO. Avoiding conflict in the hope of getting laid is an almost sure path to celibacy. Another post explaining how you got lucky (know luck has nothing to do with it;))..... Geez at least twice this week and it is barely half over with the weekend to come...... You know I love you mem11363, but quit gloating....
JamesM Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 Another post explaining how you got lucky (know luck has nothing to do with it;))..... Geez at least twice this week and it is barely half over with the weekend to come...... You know I love you mem11363, but quit gloating.... Ditto. But then the reverse side is....if we tell our bad situations as a way to help others, is it no different when we tell the good stories as a way to help others? Would we rather hear the miserable stories versus the ones who have it all figured out? While I felt as you did, TDP, I wonder if it was because I don't have what mem professes to have...is that why I had that feeling? Does stories like mem actually help or do they rankle with those who don't have it the same? Can anything from an alleged good situation help those in a bad situation? I know that my wife will turn a comment into a sexual innuendo occasionally, but I don't think that this means "tonight I will score." I simply take it as her humor. Just MO.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 Ditto. But then the reverse side is....if we tell our bad situations as a way to help others, is it no different when we tell the good stories as a way to help others? Would we rather hear the miserable stories versus the ones who have it all figured out? While I felt as you did, TDP, I wonder if it was because I don't have what mem professes to have...is that why I had that feeling? Does stories like mem actually help or do they rankle with those who don't have it the same? Can anything from an alleged good situation help those in a bad situation? I know that my wife will turn a comment into a sexual innuendo occasionally, but I don't think that this means "tonight I will score." I simply take it as her humor. Just MO. You reported in the post above that you've had a good month!!!!!! Does it rankle me???? No, not really..... Trust me when I say it is nice to hear people in sexual relationships in their 20+ year marriages..... Never a bad thing. Just the way mem likes to explain the details of how it happens, what he said or did and how if needed the "Alpha" male was used. And then of course, how it should work for everyone.... BTW, I've had a good month too, however the problem James is we talk in months not days like mem11363........
Lizzie60 Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 Guys.. guys... it's not the quantity .. it's the quality.. I had absolutely no desire for my first ex.. but we did (I sacrifice) twice a week.. so he had an average of 6-8 times a months... not bad for a woman who absolutely hated it with him... but it was MY nauseating compromise to keep peace..
JamesM Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 Guys.. guys... it's not the quantity .. it's the quality.. I had absolutely no desire for my first ex.. but we did (I sacrifice) twice a week.. so he had an average of 6-8 times a months... not bad for a woman who absolutely hated it with him... but it was MY nauseating compromise to keep peace.. I agree. And even when the quality is not as desired, it is still better if she actually wants to have sex...even if the motivation is out of love for me and not out of love for sex. I guess in a sense she actually is expressing her love to me if she initiates sex knowing that I love the act more than her. She loves the closeness and cuddling. I love it all. I know she is not repulses by sex with me, but she has made the comment that she doesn't feel it like she used to and wishes that she did. Is that a lack of love or rather a lack of physical response? But Lizzie, your comment as made a number of times, does show a difference with your marriage versus some of us who have less sex than we would like, or rather less passionate sex than we would like. You felt forced to give your husband sex twice a week "to keep peace." You gave in and ended up simply disliking sex with him. Perhaps the real reason you lost interest in sex with him was not simply because he was "like a brother," but that you HAD to have sex with him. Perhaps if you felt that having sex with him was in your control, then you would never have been repulsed when having sex with him? Perhaps that is why you keep control of your sex life now in the way that you do? No, I do not want to be a psychiatrist.
Lizzie60 Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 That 'compromise' came after many years of arguing, fighting, him begging and nagging.. and me withholding ... if we didn't have sex for months it was OK with me.. but he wanted it alot more than I did. It was a compromise for the 'last years' (about 2 years I'd say).. to keep peace.. until I just couldn't take it any longer and moved out.. It's not easy to 'analyse' as every couple is different.. but I would bet my life that most women just lose the 'desire' for their H... not the love..
mem11363 Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 TDP - Sorry if the detail comes across as boasting. Last night my wife did NOT O. She wouldn't let me please her. I asked, I wanted to. I always want to. She smiled and said no. WTF? If I EVER implied I have it all figured out I was a fool. I don't. I mean she DID initiate but then she wouldn't let me please her. Go ahead Lizzie - tell me about the dark clouds of sexual aversion forming on the horizon.... You guys are a tough audience sometimes - I don't get any credit for the stories where I talk about the bone on bone conflict wife and I have. And for a sanity check we are no where near 4-5 times a week. And my meds lower my drive by half or more - which is helpful. Twice a week is about average. And YES I want a little more - just not into being pushy - oh and those meds sure help. Agree with Lizzie. I would prefer - (I would boost my meds :) ) once a week with her being enthusiastic over 2-3 times a week where I knew it was mercy sex. Lizzie - you are a very honest and self aware person. Here is my question for you. When you are in a LTR, have you generally wanted the guy to love you more than you love him? Or do you prefer for him to love you less than you love him? I love my wife more than she loves me - but I conceal it as much as it seems she wants me to. Guys.. guys... it's not the quantity .. it's the quality.. I had absolutely no desire for my first ex.. but we did (I sacrifice) twice a week.. so he had an average of 6-8 times a months... not bad for a woman who absolutely hated it with him... but it was MY nauseating compromise to keep peace..
Lizzie60 Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 mem.. I have to leave now.. (off work)... I will be back either later tonite or tomorrow.. to answer your question. touroulou xxx
SuburbanOblivion Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 OK - next day I ask her WTF? And so she tells me - 2 things that had nothing to do with me, 2 things I did that turned her off. This is not make up stuff each item is valid and in combo those 4 things made the perfect storm - totally killed her desire. But she felt stuck because she knew I was wound up and ready to go and I would be really angry if she hit the abort switch literally moments before showtime. And I just cried. I sat there and cried for all the nights she felt obligated to do something she didn't want, for all the nights she came to bed late and tired because she was disorganized, for all the nights we had sex but I felt rejected anyway because it was obvious she wished we weren't, for the vast chasm separating men and women. And then we both apologized and I made a note not to repeat my two blunders.... So what had you done that she found to be such a turnoff?
Whateverelse Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 PKB, I could have written your post, almost exactly, except for some unimportant differences in the ages and years of marriage. You were wondering about w/holding sex to see if that changes anything? I have tried not initiating several times, just as an experiment to see what happens. I have learned three things from my experiments: One, we would never have sex again if I didnt start it, as she simply has no desire to do it. Two, I am a wreck after 3-4 weeks without it. So, it never ends with her initiating, but with me breaking down and ending the experiment. Three, she is a little less likely (but only a little) to say "no, I'm too tired" if its been 3-4 weeks than if its been 1 week. Maybe that means there is some slight desire there, albeit clearly not much. I really get depressed when I think that this is not an experience we share any more, and that its only something she does to keep peace in the house. As Lizzie points out, sex is something she may find as disgusting as cleaning the bathroom, but she'll never tell me directly that is what she is thinking. I guess the only thing more depressing would be if she announced we weren't doing again, ever. Even more depressing are Lizzie's observations that all women married 20+ years feel this way. If that's true, why aren't they all dumping their husbands at the 20 year mark? Does this mean my wife is going to come home one day soon and tell me we are history?
pyroguy Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 PKB, I could have written your post, almost exactly, except for some unimportant differences in the ages and years of marriage. You were wondering about w/holding sex to see if that changes anything? I have tried not initiating several times, just as an experiment to see what happens. I have learned three things from my experiments: One, we would never have sex again if I didnt start it, as she simply has no desire to do it. Two, I am a wreck after 3-4 weeks without it. So, it never ends with her initiating, but with me breaking down and ending the experiment. Three, she is a little less likely (but only a little) to say "no, I'm too tired" if its been 3-4 weeks than if its been 1 week. Maybe that means there is some slight desire there, albeit clearly not much. I really get depressed when I think that this is not an experience we share any more, and that its only something she does to keep peace in the house. As Lizzie points out, sex is something she may find as disgusting as cleaning the bathroom, but she'll never tell me directly that is what she is thinking. I guess the only thing more depressing would be if she announced we weren't doing again, ever. Even more depressing are Lizzie's observations that all women married 20+ years feel this way. If that's true, why aren't they all dumping their husbands at the 20 year mark? Does this mean my wife is going to come home one day soon and tell me we are history? No, she likes the comfort and security of her life, and I guess she loves you, but unfortunately, she doesn't want to have sex with you. This seems to be the new thing in the modern day world. It's the woman's version of the "madonna-whore complex". She loves you for the emotional support, being a good father, and to go to dinner with, but her sexual interests, if any, lie elsewhere? If you really want to see her uber happy, follow the new modern day craze for modern women of swinging. She can get a "hot young stud" and watch her pop the cork on the champagne..and maybe you can have a little fun too. SAd and pathetic, but all too true, I'm beginning to think
CarrieT Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 Even more depressing are Lizzie's observations that all women married 20+ years feel this way. If that's true, why aren't they all dumping their husbands at the 20 year mark? Does this mean my wife is going to come home one day soon and tell me we are history? Because they are more afraid of the alternative; many, MANY wives are *comfortable* with the security of their home or their family to want to be on their own. Many don't have the ability to be on their own and rely on their husbands as their caretakers.
mem11363 Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 Just as we are getting into bed I remarked with a laugh about a pretty ugly quote from male celebrity in US magazine. He was mocking an ex girlfriend. Really in hindsight it isn't funny it was mean. A little context she had been channel surfing and stopped to watch the last half hour of a show about child prostitution in India. Sickening stuff - the Madam tortured the girls when they didn't do what she wanted. One of them was missing an eye because she tried to run away. So my comment - being kind of mean - in that context really made her mad - and she said so. And - kind of embarrassing - I hit the gym pretty hard that day - apparently when I showered I didn't use enough soap - mild underarm BO - I am a really, really clean person so - I turned bright red when she told me the next day. So what had you done that she found to be such a turnoff?
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