Women, sex, and dating

[calazhage]

I often hear women complaining that "There are no good men", or "Men just wants sex", or "I have been hurt so many times" etc.

 

Perhaps men and women should go back to the basics of dating?

 

If you are a single female, wouldn't it be a better idea to have a man take you out 20-25 times with no sex involved?

 

Typically the above would:

1. Save miles on your heart and soul

2. Make sex better when it does happen

3. prevent std's

4. Rarely will a man just quit and leave after so much time invested, and getting to know you.

 

As a sidenote, I have no sympathy for a woman who uses sex to acquire men outside of their league, and then complains "All men are dogs"..They typically do this through internet dating, contacting the hottest/most eligible men, and then having sex quickly to try and hook them.. Then they complain about "Being used for sex"

 

While quick sex can lead to a relationship, it just seems something is missing throughout that relationship, if one even develops. An important phase was passed over. The more this is repeated, it seems the more a woman loses of herself and her ability to trust and love.

[stillafool]

The problem with what you are saying is that women need sex as much as men do. Read the thread about how many times a day women masturbate and you will see that women don't want to wait 20-25 dates to have sex. Women want sex just like men do. They don't want to wait to have sex the way their great grandmothers did.

[calazhage]

Stillafool,

 

As a man I do not NEED sex, nor do any men I know..

 

I have had very attractive and successful male friends who have went 6 months, a year, or even a couple years without sex. I have myself as well.

 

But Stillafool, their great grandmothers were married for 50 years.. Sad reading so many threads about women and men trying to turn FWB's and one night stands into a relationship..Duh, won't work. All they have is some low level, quick and easy substitute(empty sex), while preventing themselves from being truly loved.

 

So go ahead, keep having sex right away, and keep losing a part of yourself..

[terra]

Speaking only for myself I know that I get attached after sex - normal biological response - although I have read a plethora of posts about woman who can have sex without attachment.

For me personally, I prefer to wait so that I don't have that I want to be with him because I have sex attachment instead of based on his personality and our compatibility. It really complicates things for me and makes breakups difficult.

I don't feel like I need to wait a whole year or even six months but I like to wait a couple of months at least.

[canadaman111]

Though I like sex like any other man. I have to be in a commited realationship before having sex. That is very important to me. Last week on a first date the girl tried really hard to initiate sex, but I talked her into waiting. The sex will be much better when we know each other better and are commited to each other

[Johnny M]

Typically the above would:

1. Save miles on your heart and soul

2. Make sex better when it does happen

3. prevent std's

4. Rarely will a man just quit and leave after so much time invested, and getting to know you.

You are forgetting something:

5. Rarely will a man invest so much time into a woman without any physical intimacy.

 

Dating someone for several months without physical intimacy is a dumb idea for a number of reasons. What if you finally have sex after all this time and it turns out to be really, really bad? Congratulations, you've just wasted several months of your life. What if the woman is saving herself until marriage and doesn't tell you right away? After several months, you find out that you won't be getting any unless you marry her.

 

Using the promise of sex to trap somebody into commitment is never a good idea. If you think that your relationship would somehow be stronger because you've abstained from sex in it's early stages, you are deluding yourself.

[RobM]

Finding out if you're sexually compatible is way too important to leave for months and months after you start dating.

 

I find this idea just as stupid as saying, just forget the relationship until you have sex 20-25 times, then if you decide you're sexually compatible then start dating and see if the rest of your lives are compatible.

[sally4sara]

I think this is a perfect situation for men with madonna/whore complexes.

 

If a guy has the mentality that he only values women who will make him wait (something no one should have to MAKE him do) then he feels sex devalues a woman. If he doesn't want sex until much time has passed, then it really isn't up to the woman to make him wait. So to place the waiting on her is, I'm sorry, but I think it is an immature view.

To act like a woman MADE you have sex early is to suggest you were raped. Now I can understand someone getting bunched up over being raped, but that isn't what we're talking about.

 

It is still sex. Have it early, have it late, it is just a set up to get around his sexual hang ups about women. If a guy faults the woman he just had sex with for it being too early, maybe he is just shifting shame? After all he was having sex early too.

 

Personally, I have no patience for men with madonna/whore complexes. Too many issues in the head.

[carhill]

Maybe I'm just an old fart, but I might be dead after 20-25 dates

 

Seriously, if there is intimacy developing during the dating process, and dates are occurrences of true personal interaction, I can't imagine a scenario where so many would go by without physical and sexual expressions of that intimacy developing, not even for a conservative old fart like me. IMO, once two people start seeing a connection and shared intimacy, expressions of that follow. For me, that usually starts after 4-5 dates, if it's going to happen at all. If no joy, next

[txsilkysmoothe]

I agree with the OP for the most part except the 20-25 dates.

 

So how many dates is more realistic?

 

Or, how many weeks of continual dating (assuming at least one date per week)?

[SOLACEMENT]

Unless you are multi dating(which you shouldn't be IMO after 10 dates with one person) I don't see why anyone would wait 6months.. unless for religous purposes or something.

 

Unless I am getting it on the side..I am pretty sure I won't wait six months

 

But you have to take into consideration that I am not looking for anything long term...maybe when I am in my mid twenties ..but not now

[calazhage]

You are forgetting something:

 

5. Rarely will a man invest so much time into a woman without any physical intimacy.

 

Dating someone for several months without physical intimacy is a dumb idea for a number of reasons. What if you finally have sex after all this time and it turns out to be really, really bad?.

 

Using the promise of sex to trap somebody into commitment is never a good idea. If you think that your relationship would somehow be stronger because you've abstained from sex in it's early stages, you are deluding yourself.

 

 

Sex is best with a woman you love.. That does not happen instantly.

 

Having been on both ends (the easy girls), (Quality women who wait), i can say the latter blows away the former.

 

I never had sex with a woman I really liked and somehow the sex was just awful. How is that even possible?

 

If the woman is worth it, men will wait. Perhaps you need to raise your standards.

Edited February 15, 2010 by calazhage

[Ruby Slippers]

Perhaps men and women should go back to the basics of dating?

Perhaps you should go back to the 1950s?

 

I find it amusing that you consider women who make you wait "quality" and women who don't make you wait "low quality".

 

So, quality is 100% up to the woman? Where does the man's responsibility for high or low quality come into the picture? I guess all men are high quality, and women are either virgins or sluts, right?

[calazhage]

Perhaps you should go back to the 1950s?

 

I find it amusing that you consider women who make you wait "quality" and women who don't make you wait "low quality".

 

So, quality is 100% up to the woman? Where does the man's responsibility for high or low quality come into the picture? I guess all men are high quality, and women are either virgins or sluts, right?

 

Think about it..And I wish I could..

 

The woman you are on a first date with who wants sex most likely does the same thing with everyone.. As guys we try to think of ourselves as "special", but that is laughable. Usually she mixes in a bunch of lies as well like "I never did this before so soon " etc etc.

 

yes, men and women are not equal sexually.. Men are wired to spread their seed, women are wired to protect their egg. I am wary of a woman who leaves her egg unprotected and will let any guy fertilize it.

[sally4sara]

Men are wired to spread their seed, women are wired to protect their egg. I am wary of a woman who leaves her egg unprotected and will let any guy fertilize it.

 

Your two current threads then cancel each other out. If men are bound to their supposed wiring to spread their seed, why are you blaming women in one thread for the necessity of abortion? This statement would go a long way to someone believing men are the ones to blame for abortion and women are merely victims of male appetites.

 

And if you want to feel special, why would you seek to spread your seed so casually and try to think women are the ones who have to be responsible for the aftermath?

 

If you're wired to spread your seed, wouldn't that mean you do sleep with people so soon? Jeesh, such an irresponsible animal you are! Maybe you should keep it in your pants and wait for a woman to really value you enough to want to have a kid with you?

[calazhage]

Huh?

 

I am basically saying in both threads, women should be far more selective in whom they sleep with.

 

Not only would this prevent abortions as in the other thread, it would lead to better relatioships..

 

What is your advice? have sex sooner?

[greatgirlfriend]

I am a woman who isn't used to waiting. While I was never "easy", I did jump sometimes way too early into bed. Sometimes it was just for sex (I still have needs) other times I thought the relationship was more serious than it was. It's awful when you find out the other person doesn't want you for more than a fling. I am very lucky I never got pregnant nor did I get many diseases (other than HPV which is common).

 

Flash forward to now. I've started dating a guy I am crazy about. He wants to wait several months (he's thinking the summer). Even though we are already long time friends, he wants to develop the actual intimacy before we go all the way. One of the reasons is because both of us think that a pregnancy will occur (not sure why we both think this) and by then a strong intimacy will be there to deal with this. We both agree that an unplanned pregnancy means a marriage and it's too early now for this to be a good idea. Sure, it stinks waiting, but by then it'll be a more stable relationship. I know people are saying that there's birth control and we'll use condoms, but accidents happen.

[Jersey Shortie]

If you are a single female, wouldn't it be a better idea to have a man take you out 20-25 times with no sex involved?

 

I think in some cases, it would be better for women to wait before having sex. Not sure if 20-25 is the magic number, but then again, there really is no real magic number for that kind of thing.

 

While I agree with you in theory, I disagree with the mentality that you, as many men seem to do, hold women up to being the moral gate keepers. Alot of things in the dating worlds would be better if women AND men only did x,y or z.

 

 

As a sidenote, I have no sympathy for a woman who uses sex to acquire men outside of their league, and then complains "All men are dogs"..They typically do this through internet dating, contacting the hottest/most eligible men, and then having sex quickly to try and hook them.. Then they complain about "Being used for sex"

 

Do you have sympathy for men who do the same? Contact women outside of their league then complain that "all women are bitches.." and the likes of that?

 

Why all the anomosity towards women that have failed love/relationship experiences? don't we all have those? Don't we all make mistakes? Haven't we all, at some point, fell for the pretty face?

 

The more this is repeated, it seems the more a woman loses of herself and her ability to trust and love.

 

Sometimes that is true. But I also think men that tend to sleep around with alot of women also become a bit jaded on trust and love.

[alphamale]

If you are a single female, wouldn't it be a better idea to have a man take you out 20-25 times with no sex involved?

only good looking women could pull this off

[Mr White]

Perhaps you should go back to the 1950s?

 

I find it amusing that you consider women who make you wait "quality" and women who don't make you wait "low quality".

 

So, quality is 100% up to the woman? Where does the man's responsibility for high or low quality come into the picture? I guess all men are high quality, and women are either virgins or sluts, right?

 

Ideally - yes. The main reason guys hurry with intimacy is not hormones, but the fact that if they don't make a quick move they will quickly be "friendzoned", while their paramour hooks up with some other random dude at the dive .

 

There is something to be said about old fashioned courtship, the whole 9 dates before any action, meet the parents thing - good stuff. Unfortunately, no sane guy will go through with this knowing how women actually behave these days . Ironically, the main result of the feminist revolution was precisely exacerbating the tendency to view women primarily as sexual objects .

 

These days women are much easier to sleep with, much, much, much harder to actually love .

Edited February 15, 2010 by Mr White

[Ruby Slippers]

Men are wired to spread their seed, women are wired to protect their egg. I am wary of a woman who leaves her egg unprotected and will let any guy fertilize it.

Evolutionary stable strategy suggests that high-quality men will be much more selective with a mate and stick by her side to raise the offspring, since doing so yields higher success rates of carrying on the genes. In fact, these are the most reproductively successful males. They are rewarded by females, and their offspring are well taken care of and more likely to reproduce themselves.

 

In the desperation of their disadvantageous position, the lower-quality males will mate with anything.

 

Hence, I am wary of a man who fertilizes any available egg, then abandons it and its mother to fend for themselves.

[Crazy Magnet]

Women are wired to find the best male to fertilize their eggs, not sit around and save them! We're just as wired for natural selection. The biggest strongest males should get to "spread some seed" with the most females b/c we all want our babies to be biologically advantaged. We're not egg protectors!!!

 

I feel like I should run off and put on my egg battle armor.

[Mr White]

Using evolution as a "rational" (or even strategic!) process is no better than believing that god created the world in 6 days (and took a break on the 7th) . Also, much like religion, this interpretation of evolution can rationalize any and all (including mutually contradictory) behaviors.

[Jersey Shortie]

Crazy, what science class did you take?

 

Women are very much wired to choose the mate that will best provide and protect them.

 

I feel like I should run off and put on my egg battle armor.

 

I believe that's called a condom my dear.

 

Unfortunately, no sane guy will go through with this knowing how women actually behave these days . Ironically, the main result of the feminist revolution was precisely exacerbating the tendency to view women primarily as sexual objects .

 

Women behave exactly how men want them to behave. Women don't want to be the moral compasses anymore. Men certainly didn't want to be but they held women to a standard that they didn't hold themselves to for generations. You are seeing the backlash of that. Women want to go out and have their own experiences that men have been enjoying for centuries. The issue is that men now realize now how it's come to backfire on them. That's the problem when either gender holds expectations for the opposite sex that they don't hold for themselves. Such as acting in ways they wouldn't want the other gender to act, then become embittered by the fact that the other gender is infact now acting exactly how they were acting for quite some time.

 

And men have been viewing women has sexual objects WAY before the feminist revolution. The feminist revolution didn't cause women to be viewed more as sex objects, and it didn't cause them to be viewed as less as sex objects. But it certainly did give women options and a voice DESPITE the fact that men still narrowly wanted to pigeon hole women. So sure, men still view us as sex objects but now we can tell him to stuff it or we don't have to marry him just to survive.

 

I can understand men not exactly being happy about current female/male climates. However, lets be honest with ourselves. Men have been running around for centuries have fun and pegging women into individual boxes based on what they wished women to be. The good little wife and homebody in one box that fullfilled a certain set of needs and the prostutitute or mistress that fit another. Now that more women are pegging men into their own little boxes and doing what men have done for centuries, your unhappy. That's what happens when either gender gets exactly what they ask for.

 

These days women are much easier to sleep with, much, much, much harder to actually love .

 

Same to be said for men. Men are much much easier to use for their money, dates, dinners, concerts..then actually respect or love.

[calazhage]

Ideally - yes. The main reason guys hurry with intimacy is not hormones, but the fact that if they don't make a quick move they will quickly be "friendzoned", while their paramour hooks up with some other random dude at the dive .

 

There is something to be said about old fashioned courtship, the whole 9 dates before any action, meet the parents thing - good stuff. Unfortunately, no sane guy will go through with this knowing how women actually behave these days . Ironically, the main result of the feminist revolution was precisely exacerbating the tendency to view women primarily as sexual objects .

 

These days women are much easier to sleep with, much, much, much harder to actually love .

 

This is an excellent point..

 

It took going to a third world country to remember what courtship is like.

 

For years I dated American women who wanted sex on first, second, third dates, and I realize NOW I never really even knew the woman.. I have been in long relationships and always felt quick sex was normal and fine, but looking back and comparing that to now, I see how a traditional courtship blows it away.