Devil Inside Posted February 14, 2010 Posted February 14, 2010 Is there anything as hard as maintaining a boundary with someone when they NEED you to...yet...every cell in your body WANTS to break the boundary...and so do theirs? I had someone ask me to help them remain strong. To keep them focused. That the sacrifices they were making served a bigger picture. The hard part is...I don't know how strong I am. I don't know if I could maintain the boundary, much less help them to do the same. I also am concerned that if I am able to keep them strong that they will feel as if I am not empathic to their situation. Nothing could be further from the truth. I get the struggle. I get the anguish. Truth be told I don't know if I could hold the boundary myself...in fact...I don't think I can. Does this mean I am not a dependable person? That I am failing some test? The whole thing just seems like a catch 22. My head is fighting my heart. My head says...they have asked you to keep them strong, they told you they would need your strength. Keep them strong. My heart says...they need your support and empathy. If they break the boundary understand, they set themselves up in a situation that is too difficult and what they need is for you to confirm that for them. Also, what I want and need is also in the mix here somewhere...it makes following my heart very tempting. Either way I feel like I lose. Boundaries can just plain suck. Anyways...this probably didn't make a whole lot of sense but it helps to process it by writing. Any feedback is welcome.
katelyn98 Posted February 14, 2010 Posted February 14, 2010 Well, in my opinion(im sure everyone ahve different opinions so dont go against me) everyone has strenght in themselves but does not hv the confidence. If you have confidence, u can do it. =) =) P.S. it doesnt mean ur not a dependable person, its just that ur afraid u cant do it.
Author Devil Inside Posted February 14, 2010 Author Posted February 14, 2010 Well, in my opinion(im sure everyone ahve different opinions so dont go against me) everyone has strenght in themselves but does not hv the confidence. If you have confidence, u can do it. =) =) P.S. it doesnt mean ur not a dependable person, its just that ur afraid u cant do it. Thanks for the encouragement. It is hard to have confidence that I can remain strong in a situation where I need to...but don't want to. So it leads to the question...how to develop some confidence in my ability to delay gratification, and to go against my instinct to be there for someone I care about?
Ronni_W Posted February 14, 2010 Posted February 14, 2010 (edited) Maybe the boundary violation is 100% within you, in that you agreed to 'be something' that you have no desire to be? Maybe there's an inner conflict cos you're not being authentic and honest with yourself or the other person? The crap that maybe the other person "needs" you to disrespect her (or his) specific request/expressed boundary is just crap. YOU don't really WANT to respect what she (or he) has asked, but you can easier justify and rationalize your failure to hold yourself accountable or live up to your word if you tell yourself it's to show your "support" and "empathy." How very noble of you, yes? how to develop some confidence in my ability to delay gratification, It's not "confidence" that you need, it is self-control. Self-discipline. A commitment to upholding your values, integrity, promises. Accepting that you're not entitled to instant gratification at someone else's expense / against her/his expressed wishes and desires. Edited February 14, 2010 by Ronni_W
NowhereToHide Posted February 14, 2010 Posted February 14, 2010 Did you ever stop to think that this person who asked you to keep her strong may not even know if that's what she wants? That she is conflicted? That some days she may reach out to you and she will need you to just be there for her, and other days she will reach out and need to keep her strong? You can't win in that situation. Unless you're a mind reader. And to make matters worse, if you don't react the way she needs you to in the moment, that she will hold it against you. You, in fact, WILL fail the test. And there's not a damn thing you can do about it, because it's not based on anything rational. It's based on the conflicted emotions of someone that is in an incredibly difficult situation. She will just continue to shut down. Because that's what's easiest.
deux ex machina Posted February 14, 2010 Posted February 14, 2010 I have the Nine Inch Nails song, Kinda I Want To in my head as I'm writing this for some reason. ((DI)) My initial thought upon reading this is that this person does not need your strength - what this person needs is their own, and that there is no way that will ever be developed unless and until there is distance. It will have to come from within that person, and there is such a thing as maladaptive support that can diminish and deplete both parties. If you distance yourself, and they don't feel you are empathic to their situation, or you get blowback - just know that you do not have to prove your empathy to anyone. You know what you are about, and in the final analysis, that's what matters most. Initially, if some kind of agreement was made that you didn't at the time fully understand put you, and the other person, in an emotionally tenuous situation - but that you are now coming to realize does - this is a good and useful thing to know. If you should back off at this point, it does not mean you are undependable, it means you are now much more aware of how deep the waters are - if you know now what you did not fully comprehend before and back away, there is no fault in it...if anything, it proves your dependability even more than before that you can recognize the danger. Beware of the sense of over-responsibility and a need to solve the problem. It can be used against a person. Perhaps not consciously, a person can give you a sense of possibilities and potential to you...but the end result, will be very different. You can chase a ghost forever but will, ever never catch it - the only thing to do is banish it.
Author Devil Inside Posted February 14, 2010 Author Posted February 14, 2010 Did you ever stop to think that this person who asked you to keep her strong may not even know if that's what she wants? That she is conflicted? That some days she may reach out to you and she will need you to just be there for her, and other days she will reach out and need to keep her strong? You can't win in that situation. Unless you're a mind reader. And to make matters worse, if you don't react the way she needs you to in the moment, that she will hold it against you. You, in fact, WILL fail the test. And there's not a damn thing you can do about it, because it's not based on anything rational. It's based on the conflicted emotions of someone that is in an incredibly difficult situation. She will just continue to shut down. Because that's what's easiest. So are you saying I need to let go of the concept of winning or doing the right thing and just be myself and react as the person I am. That in the end I may as well be genuine, because there is no right or wrong...and me not being who I am when this person reaches out is not going to get me anywhere?
NowhereToHide Posted February 14, 2010 Posted February 14, 2010 I think it's a moot point. I don't think she will reach out to you again.
Author Devil Inside Posted February 14, 2010 Author Posted February 14, 2010 I think it's a moot point. I don't think she will reach out to you again. That is my worst fear. See, I need this person just as much as they need me. My fear of losing them has led me to do things in a way I would not normally do them. I hope they don't sentence me to that.
Author Devil Inside Posted February 14, 2010 Author Posted February 14, 2010 I have the Nine Inch Nails song, Kinda I Want To in my head as I'm writing this for some reason. ((DI)) My initial thought upon reading this is that this person does not need your strength - what this person needs is their own, and that there is no way that will ever be developed unless and until there is distance. It will have to come from within that person, and there is such a thing as maladaptive support that can diminish and deplete both parties. If you distance yourself, and they don't feel you are empathic to their situation, or you get blowback - just know that you do not have to prove your empathy to anyone. You know what you are about, and in the final analysis, that's what matters most. Initially, if some kind of agreement was made that you didn't at the time fully understand put you, and the other person, in an emotionally tenuous situation - but that you are now coming to realize does - this is a good and useful thing to know. If you should back off at this point, it does not mean you are undependable, it means you are now much more aware of how deep the waters are - if you know now what you did not fully comprehend before and back away, there is no fault in it...if anything, it proves your dependability even more than before that you can recognize the danger. Beware of the sense of over-responsibility and a need to solve the problem. It can be used against a person. Perhaps not consciously, a person can give you a sense of possibilities and potential to you...but the end result, will be very different. You can chase a ghost forever but will, ever never catch it - the only thing to do is banish it. Thanks for the words of encouragement DEM. Thing is I have no strength for anyone today. I feel so empty.
deux ex machina Posted February 14, 2010 Posted February 14, 2010 Thanks for the words of encouragement DEM. Thing is I have no strength for anyone today. I feel so empty. You've been through so much - it stands to reason. I always get the feeling from your posts that you demand a lot of yourself. You have to replenish the well sometime. Take good care of you. 1
Greenpeacer Posted February 15, 2010 Posted February 15, 2010 Thanks for the words of encouragement DEM. Thing is I have no strength for anyone today. I feel so empty.a Can you give me the details? I wonder is she is Bi Polar or BPD because I think i have a yo-yo as well in my hands. thanks
Odyssey Posted February 15, 2010 Posted February 15, 2010 (The worst battle is between what you know and what you feel). Often i try to keep in mind that to handle yourself use your head... to handle others use your heart. OP, what is the situation exactly?
OWoman Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 Is there anything as hard as maintaining a boundary with someone when they NEED you to...yet...every cell in your body WANTS to break the boundary...and so do theirs? DI, strength vs support and empathy? Why does this have to be a conflict? surely you can support through strength, or you can be strong in empathising? I'm really not getting why it's one or the other. Perhaps the conflict is not in the WHAT, but in the HOW. A hypothetical example - an MOW asks a MM for NC. She phrases this as "strength" - she needs him to be "strong" (that is, not to break NC) so that she can be "strong", because of a "bigger picture" (working on the M to see if it really has a future). He agrees, because he loves and respects her, and wants to do what is "best" for her. He can see that what she's proposing may well be what is "best" for her, even though it's not what he, personally, would want or choose. Nor, he suspects, what she really wants. So he's agreed not to contact her, and not to respond if she contacts him. And then she contacts him. She's in a bad place. Her message is calling out for support, for words of encouragement from him, for some signal that he's still on her side, still caring about, and for, her. He's torn - he promised her he'd respect her wish for NC. But yet, she's breaking that agreement, and every fibre of his being wants to respond to her and tell her that he's thinking of her, wishing her well, caring for her. He wants to offer support, but he wants to deliver on his promise of strength. What could he do? Well, he could offer support through strength. He could think back to the agreement he made with her, where she asked him to respect her wish for NC, and the necessity she outlined of her doing so. He could cling to the bigger picture, believing that NC really was what she needed, and that by offering his strength in her time of need he was showing her TRUE support: support of the kind that she REALLY needed, not support which was a thinly masked excuse for acting out his own agenda. He could stick to the terms of the pact, acting in the best interests she outlined for him, and support her in that way. Or, he could offer strength through support. He could gently remind her with a short, but firm, response that NC was what she needed to do. That this was the path she'd chosen because of a bigger picture, and that what she was asking of him was unfair in that it was asking him to betray a promise he'd made her, to compromise his dependability and to give in to his own need for gratification ahead of her need for resolution and clarity. Sure, there are a myriad other options of what he could do - but ultimately he needs to be happy that what he chooses neither sells out the [spirit of the] commitment he gave her, nor compromises his own view of himself as a dependable, caring person who is capable of prioritising a friend's NEEDS above his own DESIRES. He needs to live with himself afterward. DI, I don't know what kind of situation you're referring to here, so my hypothetical example is likely wayyyy off the mark - but it's the most convenient one that sprang to mind to illustrate what I was trying to say, about the false dichotomy you'd posited. I know you posted this a while back, and I hope you've managed to resolve it to your satisfaction in the meantime - hang in there!
Brokenlady Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 That is my worst fear. See, I need this person just as much as they need me. My fear of losing them has led me to do things in a way I would not normally do them. I hope they don't sentence me to that. I suspect that if this person cares for you enough to be reaching out to you for strength and support, and is understanding of the complexities of your situation, you have nothing to fear.
Brokenlady Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 I also am concerned that if I am able to keep them strong that they will feel as if I am not empathic to their situation. Nothing could be further from the truth. I get the struggle. I get the anguish. Truth be told I don't know if I could hold the boundary myself...in fact...I don't think I can. Does this mean I am not a dependable person? That I am failing some test? It means you're human, with complex emotions. Personally, I have struggled with boundaries my whole life and the more you care about someone, the harder it is to tow the line. Please remember though that you can't be everything to everyone. Assuming that the person you speak of is a reasonable and empathic sort, he/she will not ask you for more than you can give, and the fact that he/she turned to you in the first place is evidence of your dependability.
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