BS's, just how much would you take??

[PhoenixRise]

She knows because she asked me on the 1st DDay did I think he could do it?

 

Hopeless4U the wife is not going to take your word as the final authority on anything. She just isn't.

 

 

he has told her he still has feelings for me.

 

She told you he said this or is this coming from MM?

 

How can any W that has had a rocky M with her H for 20+ years expect him to never speak to someone who has become his bestfriend, I'm sorry but its just not going to happen.

 

The M has probably not been 20 straight years of grinding misery. They likely have had their problems but there have likely been some good years too. AND no, she IS NOT going to equate your "bestfriendness" with her 20 years as his wife and think that he couldn't give you up. Especially if he is telling her he wants the marriage.

 

 

This is where I get confused of why she stays with him. He has told her this and knows in her heart he will never be able to keep up NC with me, even as friends. He is a good man and has been manipulated for most of his life by the 'women' in his life, W and M and it kills me.

 

He is still being manipulated and he just can't see it, knows no better or wants to be where he is!! So confusing??

 

There is so much more to this man but he has no chance of being himself while he is 'doing the right thing'

 

So MM is the victim now? HE is being manipulated by his W? AND he was manipulated by his mommy too? It seems to me that if he left home he can now be wherever he wants to be. If he wants out of the M all he has to do is not go home and file. If he wants to be with you he knows he can be. It seems to me that he is the one exercising all the power and he is the one manipulating you both.

 

 

Bottom line. She stays for the same reason you stay.

AND if HE is not going to take the initiative and leave her where does that leave you?

[norajane]

I see where you are coming from with the MM's lies an such and when I've been angry I would agree but in the cold light of day he has always tried to do the right thing but he hasn't actually lied to me....he never promised to leave his W, he always said that if it came to it he would choose his family because he has never wanted to leave for me and I have always agreed with that.

Guess we are both as messed up as each other...but again this thread wasn't about me and him, just me getting my head round stuff.

 

I've been the cheater and there's no way to have an affair and maintain a primary relationship without lying to both people. White lies, half-truths, omissions of truth, and straight up lies to your face.

 

That doesn't mean he wasn't genuine in some ways. But he did lie. You just will never know about what exactly and when he lied. But he did lie to you. And since you don't know the truth, you are operating under that deception and that's coloring your perception of reality.

 

And the thread IS about him. Because both you and his wife are acting and reacting the way you are due to his manipulations and deceptions and the version of truth he presented to you. Yes, you each know your own end of things, but the story he spun for each of you is affecting your actions and reactions and beliefs.

[whichwayisup]

So, the affair has turned into bestfriends friendship? not too long ago you were totally finished, looking for (and thought) you had your closure. Now it seems from the last few posts, you intend on hanging onto the friendship and expect to be in his life forever.

 

You two are not bestfriends. It's an affair, and when an A ends, friendship cannot continue. Sooner or later he is going to have to choose, you or his wife. Sorry, but a 2 year A compared to a 20 year marriage cannot be compared.

[bittersweet memories]

So, the affair has turned into bestfriends friendship? not too long ago you were totally finished, looking for (and thought) you had your closure. Now it seems from the last few posts, you intend on hanging onto the friendship and expect to be in his life forever.

 

You two are not bestfriends. It's an affair, and when an A ends, friendship cannot continue. Sooner or later he is going to have to choose, you or his wife. Sorry, but a 2 year A compared to a 20 year marriage cannot be compared.

 

I notice the new title as well ....He has her convinced now they are "best friends" and she's buying it.

[fooled once]

Ironic really...xMM asked me the same thing. How could I not get my head around the fact that his W could still want/love him after all that has happened but I could???

 

My answer is that its not me he's been lying to for the last 2 yrs and since DDay, when he needs to tell all its me he comes to, everytime???

 

Even now after everthing that has happened its me he turns to, he has told me things he knows will hurt me to the core but he knows he can tell me and I'll either tell him to f**k off or let him vent.

 

He knows who his wife is and what he can tell her and he knows who his best friend is and his best friend will be there for him no matter what his decision is. Thats what makes us solid.

 

So all your big talk of being done, being mad, etc.... was just that - talk. you aren't done. You are going to continue to be the OW. Just because you aren't having sex with him doesn't mean you aren't having an affair.

 

I am really sad for you. Because whether you want to believe it or not, his wife is the one he continues to stay with, his wife is the one who he goes home to, his wife is his friend too --- and you are his mistress - you are the one he doesn't go home to.

 

But you made your decision to continue this cycle and that means, you accept your place and you really can't complain anymore because you accept it. I find this sad for you. You will continue to wait for him, to believe the crap he tells you and deem you two 'BFF's'.

 

Oh well.

 

As for why his wife stays; because SHE has the 20+ year history, she has the past, she has the hopes of the future. They may be going through a rough patch right now, but as history has shown, they will get through it. He knows he can run to you because you don't mean what you say -- you will accept being the mistress and eventually, you will let him back in your bed.

 

She stays because she has his heart. Because if she didn't, leaving wouldn't be an issue for him.

[fooled once]

I can see where you are coming from, sort of, but I don't see how I have put up with as much as his wife??

 

He M her and lied to her about being faithfull for 20+ yrs???

I met him, I knew he was M(my ****, not hers) but he never lied to me about sharing his life with his W, he never lied to me about not wanting to leave her for me and he still isn't lying to me that he isn't sure about what he wants so WHO is he lying to still?? Is he laying next to his W telling her about OUR conversations about how he feels?? No he isn't.

 

I put up with it because I am and always will be his best friend, relationship or no relationship. I don't need to be M to him or sharing his bed to be there for him and he knows that.

 

Really? And is that because he told you so? Your best friend is another woman's husband? Really?

 

When are YOU going to be done? When is him continuing to treat you like a dirty little secret going to be enough? When is him going home to his wife, to their life going to be enough for you?

 

Are you just going to hang on forever and hope that one day he will leave and be with you? When are you going to have enough self respect and stand up and be the woman you claim you want to be? I mean, him going on vacation with his wife -- him LYING to his wife about you, him asking you to LIE to his wife, him telling his WIFE that YOU keep calling him, him giving his wife your personal information -- when is ENOUGH enough for you? When are you going to quit being his doormat, his scape goat?

 

best friend? Are you kidding? Best friends don't treat each other like this! Best friends don't do what he has done. I think you are so needy that you will proclaim "We are BFF's" and you think that will be enough to keep you tied to him forever. What happened to your anger? What happened to you? He came home and you melted, right?

 

I am just so disappointed that all your bravado for wanting better for yourself flew out the window the minute he returned. I feel so sorry for you -- to allow yourself to be treated the way he has repeatedly - repeatedly - treated you and you continue to allow it.

[whichwayisup]

Hopeless, go back and read your past bunch of threads. Where you are now compared to then.

 

What is it that you want? To stay the OW? To end it? To meet someone else? Fall inlove and get married? You're all over the place, emotion wise. Atleast that's how it seems from how you post and what you post about. I'm confused and not sure if you're venting, looking for help, or just acceptance as your role now as the OW. The bestfriend thing is not really true because bestfriends dont' dick eachother around, they do what's right and best for one another... sadly for you, what's best for BOTH of you is to end it and stay away from one another as the senario now is so unhealthy!

 

One more thing, not too long ago you felt guilty and sad for his wife, felt bad about helping him cheat on her.. I know alot has happened, but maybe you need to dig down deep and gain that sympathy back for her so you can back off and find "you" again. I'm sure deep down you're not happy. All this just seems like a waste of time and energy.

 

Something to think about... IF he were in an accident, was in the hospital. Who is going to be by his side? Making decisions, helping him, taking care of him.. Do you believe being his "bestfriend" you'd be able to go see him in the hospital? Spend time with him? My guess is no. And again, that's not bestfriends. You two have a one on one selfish friendship aka EA, A, that noone else knows about (does everyone at work know yet?) hidden and in secret.

[whichwayisup]

Hopless.. Just please be honest here. Or maybe you can't because you're in denial.

 

The A is still ongoing, even though there's no sex (yet), you still love him and want him, which makes you the OW (once again). So, either accept your role and be happy with what he can give you, on his terms and time frame, or end it for good. To go back and forth, get mad, sad, then happy he's talking to you again, is just NUTS.

[moaningmyrtle]

....

 

As a BS, what would be the point where you said enough was enough??

 

... why is his W still accepting him back when she knows in her heart he will never be able to do NC with me, even if its just as friends.

 

As a BS, could you???

 

...

 

"BS's, just how much would you take?? "

 

To answer your questions: In my case nowhere near as much as you seem willing to take.

 

As to your MM's BW she may not be willing to "take" as much as you either; it's just that she doesn't seem to know the full extent of what she is taking.

 

OTOH she may have the same attitude as you and be willing to take as much as is necessary to win the game - end result a stalemate for the women; but a win-win for the MM.

 

I would like to ask you too: "OW just how much would you take??

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Wha( would YOU do to be with the one tha( you loved...after 20 years of marriage????

[ufo8mycat]

IIs he laying next to his W telling her about OUR conversations about how he feels?? No he isn't.

 

<snip?

 

I put up with it because I am and always will be his best friend, relationship or no relationship. I don't need to be M to him or sharing his bed to be there for him and he knows that.

 

Hi H4U, I have read most of your story and these two statement, to me at least appear to be a bit incongruent. At least on my definition of a best friend.

 

I talk to my husband about my conversations with my best friend. I also go out with my best friend just the two of us but he (my best friend that is) is also part of my relationship with my husband. We have all travelled together, been out for meals together, celebrated mile stones together and done lost of very mundane gossiping and tea drinking together.

 

In short, my best friend is a part of my life and the life I share with my husband.

 

What kind of best friend is kept at arms lengths? If you ARE his best friend then you would know his wife well enough to not be bending your mind around these questions.

 

I just find the terminology a little odd. This issue is clearly still troubling you, despite the resolve you showed in your other thread. THat is ok....but don't be fooled in to thinking this guy is your friend.

 

Would you keep a girlfriend that treated you so badly? Ran hot and cold and treated you as second best to other friendships?

[bentnotbroken]

I have read this thread from the beginning. I was trying not to respond because it felt like it was somehow giving ammo to find a an achilles heel of the wife. I don't know about anyone else, but what I read is fear. Fear that he is "indeed" lying to her. ( *newsflash*just because you know he is married and you haven't asked him to leave does not equal he is being honest with you. ) The credit that you give him, yourself and your entanglement maybe a bit more than is actually there. We all want to believe we are more important(AP and BS) than the actions of the WS/MP show us we are. In that regard we are all the same.

 

I see a you carving out a new definition of your entanglement " best friend" and according to you, his wife will never be that. Maybe, maybe not. One can never know the workings of a twisted mind. Maybe the reason he hasn't left her is because he views her as his best friend. The one who is standing beside him in his mess. You are looking for a way to stay in his life no matter what. If he decides he does want NC you are going to fight it tooth and nail....just like his wife for their relationship.

 

Unfortunately, BS don't always show the proper actions to a spouse. Some of us really don't know how(be it upbringing or some form of abuse). Some of us think that what we are doing is the right thing in reality it is wrong on so many levels. Still some of us aren't capable of doing the right thing if you gave us instructions and did it for us. Funny thing is those actions do not means there is no love there. The love just hasn't been expressed the right way. There is a book called The Five Love Languages, very interesting reading. I believe that most of us aren't in tune to what it is our partners really need. This may include MM and his wife. Sometimes we have tried everything and nothing works.

 

So as you proclaim your status of BFOW be very careful that you don't get the wool yanked from your eyes like so many others on here. It's hard viewing the world the way it really is without those rose colored glasses you accuse his W of wearing while she tries to reconcile.

[seren]

H4U asked:

 

As a BS, what would be the point where you said enough was enough??

 

If I thought for one nanosecond that H loved someone else, that would be enough. If I thought that the A was ongoing, that would be enough too for I would never willingly share my H with someone else.

If I no longer loved, believed or trusted him, I would leave, if I had to fight for my marriage or his love, I would pack his bags without a thought.

 

The truth is that no one, neither BS or OP truly know what the AP is telling the other, I would look to his actions. If after D Day he was not with me, then I would conclude it was over and the choice to say enough is enough would be mine.

 

Take care

[MizFit]

It's an interesting question Hopeless...I was a BS in my mid 20s and basically when I confronted my H and it was obvious he was cheating I left. Easy...it wasn't something I would ever put up with.

 

20 years later I found myself as an OW and 2 DDays later she's still taken him back. Keep in mind she read 6 months worth of emails where there were explicit conversations of me being in her home, her vacation home in France twice, of him telling me repeatedly he loved me. In the second DDay she saw the emails of him asking to see me and that he loved me and that we'd met again and she took him back again...he's back in touch again now.

 

So...the answer is...who knows.

[pureinheart]

I notice the new title as well ....He has her convinced now they are "best friends" and she's buying it.

 

Pyro (Mr. Gaslighter) said the exact same words to me....I would say get away from me, time would go by, I would start to miss him, then "friends" came up....(this is in my case) and it sounds very innocent and it would all start up again.

 

All I can say is it is so easy to buy into the lies because for me I wanted to believe what was the truth was not the truth, until I almost had a nervous breakdown and could not take it anymore. I think he's a pyro too.

 

H4U...you got my hope and (((((((hugs)))))))

[pureinheart]

H4U....if there is anything that I could say or do to change your circumstances I would...I was reading Bents' reply and it sparked this:

 

Ok, let's say he does leave his W....(really be honest to yourself about this one) Where do you see yourself in his life?

 

My experience: Your sitch sounds similar to mine....only I refused contact, apologized, done. They separate....now he was sooooooo much in love with me, right? Why did he proceed to treat me like sh*t? He's separated and entered into D....now this should be the best times of our R right? WRONG, he abused the F out of me.

 

Now this little B thinks he's all that, gaslighting everything around him....H4U, I'm angry because I now understand more of the exact nature of the abuse, although the truth is....this guy is butt ugly...inside and out....NOBODY could understand what I saw in him in any way, shape or form...my exH met him and was shocked....hey I'm not about outward appearance (only concerned really about mine), although there is nothing attractive about this guy at all ....now my point is, if your friend is decent looking you have a bigger problem than me.

 

I know you want so bad to believe he is for real, although from the first posts I read from you....then the inconsistancy (just like me), I think he's a pyro....he's always got you off balance and his W sounds much like exPyros exW.

 

This is what I was...I was a means to an end, I was his doormat, I was his "transitional" girl....I was used. This could be your future, but you have the power to change that now.

[pureinheart]

To repair some of my inconsistancy, and I am sticking to topic, actually to my last reply.

 

I am still figuring out what exactly happened through LS and books...all on my own with good advice...nothing from any of them....something attracted me...he did have a good sense of humor and he was good to me?(I think) .. (still exploring).

 

The last two days have been a "light bulb" experience....the abuse was bad and I was in denial, lack of knowledge...and it wasn't as bad towards the end due to my lack of toleration....BUT it happened last year....it should not have happened and he still showed pyro signs...

 

It was my own arrogance in thinking things would be different...an abuser is an abuser, is an abuser...the only thing that makes that different is therapy and being serious about it...pyro is not and playing a game....