Author Twenty-ten Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 My BF pays for everything despite my repeated attempts to pay. I've got to get sneakier if I'm going to win this battle! That's cute! I get up to go the bathroom right before the bill comes and I track the waitress down and slip her my payment, he gets so "mad" then we go home and "make up" It gets ridiculous otherwise. But I love it, we have a great understanding. No one takes advantage of the other, that is what true equality is with chivalry. The two can definitely coexist.
meerkat stew Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Anything else is what we want man to be Will go with this as a more succinct and existential version of what I tried to say earlier. Same goes for defining woman.
Barky Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Hey I'll gladly be a sex toy. I define myself, not others.
thegreatmoose Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Yes I think you are closest to getting what I have described there seems to be a whole sector of the population that acts in extremes and then another camp that falls in between. So to those of us that fall in between what keeps us hanging on? What I prefer in a man is obvious a man who wants to act like a man, the traditional meaning of a man, he asks the woman out, he has acts of chivalry and then I reciprocate. I don't burp like a guy because I can, and I don't pay for my way on a first date just because I can. It's that simple for me. If I walk towards a door and a man (a stranger) is before me he usually opens the door for me, and I will always always ALWAYS thank him with a smile. Or at work, in a building with different companies on every floor, if we are in a packed elevator the men wait for the women to get out I smile and or nod my head and say thanks and make my way. The younger men (20 somethings) sometimes will walk out first but for the most part men in general let the ladies walk out first. I mean it is something that most parents teach their children, how can that EVER be misconstrued as a derogatory act? I could be struggling to open a door and have many things in my arms and a man will offer to help I wouldn't dream of giving him a dirty look or barking at him "what? I can do it!" I would say thanks and let him or say thanks and smile that I am ok but never get offended at that. Or course I can do it I can clearly fend for myself that is NOT the point. I just don't get that. It's tricky for those in between. If someone can't find exactly what they want, maybe they can at least find close to what they want. Women like you make it really easy for us men! That thank you and especially the smile go a long long way with many of us. It makes holding doors for women or letting women off the elevator first that much more enjoyable. I can't help but smile back. I always pay on a first date because I want to and know the woman is almost certain to thank me. If she offers to split I tell her how much I enjoy paying. If she were to be insistent on splitting and if I could tell she'd get mad if I didn't split, I'd give in. The women who get offended make it harder for guys and leave us confused. There are some women who prefer the door not be held for them and if they tell me nicely not to do it, then I won't do it. It's the ones who are not nice that are the problem. The key is men and women need to communicate far better with each other. I sometimes try to guess what a woman wants and sometimes I guess wrong. This would not happen if they gave me a better idea of what they wanted. For a stranger, I usually do what I think the majority of women would want unless they give me a hint otherwise.
thegreatmoose Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 That's cute! I get up to go the bathroom right before the bill comes and I track the waitress down and slip her my payment, he gets so "mad" then we go home and "make up" It gets ridiculous otherwise. But I love it, we have a great understanding. No one takes advantage of the other, that is what true equality is with chivalry. The two can definitely coexist. That's definitely ideal. If a woman does the bathroon thing, the next time I might just sneak the payment before she gets to the bathroom. It would be your turn to get "mad".
stillafool Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 The If a man is not supposed to pay for a woman in this day in age because chivalry is a myth, and he is not supposed to pull out a chair because women aren't handicapped, or open a door, or walk on the left hand side of the sidewalk, or ask her out first women should ask men out, or pay on a date, then can someone please tell me what heck does being a man in this day in age even mean? Can someone please describe to me what the role of the modern man is? What is a man? I don't think this is just what a man does or just the role of a man. I don't feel a man needs to pull a chair out for me, open a door (unless my hands are full, but I would expect that from a female as well), walk on the left side, or have to pay for the date (unless he asked first). I think women are going to have to stop expecting these kind of things if we want equality and I do. That's just the way it is. There has to be some give and take.
Author Twenty-ten Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) I don't think this is just what a man does or just the role of a man. I don't feel a man needs to pull a chair out for me, open a door (unless my hands are full, but I would expect that from a female as well), walk on the left side, or have to pay for the date (unless he asked first). I think women are going to have to stop expecting these kind of things if we want equality and I do. That's just the way it is. There has to be some give and take. I get all that which is precisely why I started this thread. You still have not answered the question or defined a man, you pretty much repeated all the things I said people feel ARE NOT the role of the man any more. So the questions still stands, what IS the role of the man in society? Since everyone seems to be hung up on giving their own definitions of what the social perception of a man is what does it mean to you? Don't tell me what it is not, we already established that, tell me what it is. Edited February 12, 2010 by Twenty-ten
Author Twenty-ten Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 See because we are not talking about something abstract like define "relationship" or define "commitment" or define "marriage" we are talking about one sector of the population that is supposed to be distinctly characterized but its own individual traits. A man is not a woman and a woman is not a man if we were supposed to be equal we would all be called the same thing not have two different titles. If we are supposed to be equal why don't short men also wear heels to make themselves look taller and makeup to make themselves look more attractive?
calazhage Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) Ok.. Currently women can conceive children without a man.. However, women still by and large,view men as someone to work and support them. Men are still the protectors (police, firemen, armed forces), still do the heavy labor, (build bridges, coal mine, drill for oil, build homes and buildings) etc, are the leading engineers, fix things, etc. Due to women's menstrual cycles, many women only have a few days a month they are actually "normal", for lack of a better term. Now let's say an artifical womb was invented.. What would the role of women be? What would they be needed for? They would only be sex objects used to pleasure men. (Which is what more and more are being used for) Any job they do could easily be done by men, but the reverse is not true. Edited February 12, 2010 by calazhage
sumdude Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 See because we are not talking about something abstract like define "relationship" or define "commitment" or define "marriage" we are talking about one sector of the population that is supposed to be distinctly characterized but its own individual traits. A man is not a woman and a woman is not a man if we were supposed to be equal we would all be called the same thing not have two different titles. If we are supposed to be equal why don't short men also wear heels to make themselves look taller and makeup to make themselves look more attractive? I can only define being a man for myself. What works for me won't work for everyone else. I'm a broad chested guy with legs one ex described as tree trunks and others say "Ah Sumdude, strong like bull." I know how to fix and build things. I work on my cars, boat and other things. For work I'm in a very technical field. I'm also a musician and songwriter. I'm into photography and art. I like sports but am not a sports junkie. I try hard to be an honorable, honest and decent person though occasionally I fail. I like beer, whiskey and Martinis when appropriate. I like to think I'm someone people can turn to and trust when in need. I'm all for equal rights between men and women. I find trying to expand equality much further is counter productive. We simply are very different in many ways. Our bodies are different, our brains are different, our bio chemistry and hormonal balance is different. The are certain things men are better at a certain things women are better at. I like it that way.
Author Twenty-ten Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 Ok.. Men are still the protectors (police, firemen, armed forces), still do the heavy labor, (build bridges, coal mine, drill for oil, build homes and buildings) etc, are the leading engineers, fix things, etc. I can only define being a man for myself. What works for me won't work for everyone else. I'm a broad chested guy with legs one ex described as tree trunks and others say "Ah Sumdude, strong like bull." I know how to fix and build things. I work on my cars, boat and other things. For work I'm in a very technical field. I'm also a musician and songwriter. I'm into photography and art. I like sports but am not a sports junkie. I try hard to be an honorable, honest and decent person though occasionally I fail. I like beer, whiskey and Martinis when appropriate. I like to think I'm someone people can turn to and trust when in need. I'm all for equal rights between men and women. I find trying to expand equality much further is counter productive. We simply are very different in many ways. Our bodies are different, our brains are different, our bio chemistry and hormonal balance is different. The are certain things men are better at a certain things women are better at. I like it that way. Ok this is great guys, now we are on to answer the question. You committed to a model of what you feel it means to be a man and you expressed it. I thank you for that. It is so much better than the ridiculous cop out of "men and women are what we want them to be" We can't live in a consistent and progressively healthy society if we cannot even decide on what our genders represent. How can someone even say "I'd rather not define who or what we are"? Well why even put on a child's birth certificate "male" or "female" if there is no point of defining the genders? I think a lot of people just don't know what the role of the man in society is hence all these transcendent definitions of what it is.
calazhage Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I feel it is also a man's job to lead a woman through life. Take care of her, protect her, make the big decisions, support her and a family. This gives a man a sense of power, and when he is empowered he can give true love. Some women will allow a man to do the above, and other's will fight against it. A man needs to find the former woman, and not the latter. I have found no matter how "equal", or "independent" women claim to be, they are still attracted to men who lead. They typically have little respect for wishy washy men, or men they must lead.
thegreatmoose Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 So the questions still stands, what IS the role of the man in society? Our society might function at a very low level with just women, assuming there was a way to bring children into the world. Think about what society would be like with no men. It would be an extremely boring and depressing place. The same can be said if there were no women. I think the biggest thing that would be missing is male-female interaction. Sure males do better at some things, females at others, but many many things are done best with both males and females sharing their strengths. The genders can fight all they want as is common on LS, but in the end they need each other and this need is something so deep within us that I can't even begin to explain it. It's just there, ingrained in us. It will be exciting to see if science can get to the bottom of this over the next century. We may yet get closer to being able to answer your question in a more concrete way.
thegreatmoose Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) Ok this is great guys, now we are on to answer the question. You committed to a model of what you feel it means to be a man and you expressed it. I thank you for that. They expressed who they are and what works for them. I can express who I am and what works for me. There will be many similarities, but there will be a few differences too. We could take everything that the vast majority of men say and that could come closer to the definiton of a modern man in the western world. However, in some other parts of the world the most common answers may be very different that what any of us would give here. Edited February 12, 2010 by thegreatmoose
Author Twenty-ten Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 Sure males do better at some things, females at others, but many many things are done best with both males and females sharing their strengths. Excellent point, and this is where I think equality should come in to play by allowing both genders to be who they are defined by society but also bringing their unique strengths into individual situations. I also think there are two components to what defines us and this applies to us as individuals too, gender aside, There is the social us and the individual or private us. Surely we could all agree that we tend to hold two different aspects of ourselves dependent on where we are. The professional us is not the same as the "home" us. So why should men or women within the confines of a relationship have the same roles as they do within the confines of society? In other words what society expects from the genders doesn't have to be aligned with the personal expectations drafted out between two individuals in a relationship. I think this is where many people confuse the roles and they cannot separate the social aspect of the genders vs the intimate one.
Author Twenty-ten Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 They expressed who they are and what works for them. I can express who I am and what works for me. There will be many similarities, but there will be a few differences too. You are absolutely right. I agree it wasn't quite what I was after because I did ask for a more general definition from a social stand point, but at least they committed to answering the question. I have to recognize that at least. What I should have said was that they are on a right path now at least which is more than what we could say for the other more non-committal responses.
Sbrizio Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) in my personal definition a man is an "adult male human capable of sustaining losses (materials and/or affective ones), to recover from the pain, to set goals for himself and to try to reach them...capable to move in life, so to speak..." ..and trying to do all this whilst still having fun and enjoying female company... Not easy to be a man, thus. But easy to be an adult male human (some 50% of mondial population managed/will manage to do it!) ..jokes apart... if you like to open doors and pull chairs, you do.. with a smile of irony, if you like. (I like for instance). If you let someone other define what a man should be, or what you as a man should do... then you're not a man! (there could be a paradox somewhere :-) F. PS. Please note that this definition applies to the other sex, just swap female/male and woman/man... Edited February 12, 2010 by Sbrizio
Barky Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I feel it is also a man's job to lead a woman through life. Take care of her, protect her, make the big decisions, support her and a family. Lulz.. this is where we're gonna have to "agree to disagree." I'm no shepherd, I certainly don't want to lead anyone through life, and quite honestly if a woman needed that much help just to get by, I don't think I'd have enough respect for her to want to bother. I like women who are adults in every sense of the word--they can take care of themselves. I like women who stand by my side, not a step back.
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