Twenty-ten Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 The chivalry thread got me thinking about this question: If a man is not supposed to pay for a woman in this day in age because chivalry is a myth, and he is not supposed to pull out a chair because women aren't handicapped, or open a door, or walk on the left hand side of the sidewalk, or ask her out first women should ask men out, or pay on a date, then can someone please tell me what heck does being a man in this day in age even mean? Can someone please describe to me what the role of the modern man is? What is a man?
bayouboi Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 Sperm donor. Scientists are working that part of the equation out as we speak!
meerkat stew Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I never said men should not show manners to women, opening doors, pulling out chairs, seeing her home, helping her walk in heels, etc. in the other thread, all good things. And I don't know what a "man" is, as just like women, there are as many different types of men as there are fingerprints. I know what type of "man" I am. What I do know is that the old social contract that assumed women worked in the home to support the family while men worked outside the home for income that supported the family exists only as a matter of agreement between two people now, not as an assumption. It is dead as a social institution. So all the social conventions attendant on that old dead social contract need to go away unless the parties agree to them specifically, regardless who benefits from them. Going forward, it's a matter of agreement between two people what kind of family structure they create, what kind of relationship they have, and the social contract is individual, not cultural.
AD1980 Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I dunno but theyres gotta be more to being a man then just trying to please women
Johnny M Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 The chivalry thread got me thinking about this question: If a man is not supposed to pay for a woman in this day in age because chivalry is a myth, and he is not supposed to pull out a chair because women aren't handicapped, or open a door, or walk on the left hand side of the sidewalk, or ask her out first women should ask men out, or pay on a date, then can someone please tell me what heck does being a man in this day in age even mean? Can someone please describe to me what the role of the modern man is? What is a man? Here's a similar question for the women: If a woman is not supposed to be an obedient wife and a stay-at-home mother who devotes her life to her husband and children, can someone please tell me what heck does being a woman in this day in age even mean? Can someone please describe to me what the role of the modern woman is?
meerkat stew Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Can someone please describe to me what the role of the modern woman is? Thought I already answered it, the role of the modern woman, or man, is exactly what the parties involved agree it to be, no more, no less. Can be as simple as "we will both work outside the home and pay for daycare for any children," or "I will work, you will stay home and keep the house." IMO, the modern way is more flexible than the old way. Let the people involved agree what it means. As far as sexually, in the bedroom, those distinctions seem to work themselves out naturally most of the time.
thegreatmoose Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 The chivalry thread got me thinking about this question: If a man is not supposed to pay for a woman in this day in age because chivalry is a myth, and he is not supposed to pull out a chair because women aren't handicapped, or open a door, or walk on the left hand side of the sidewalk, or ask her out first women should ask men out, or pay on a date, then can someone please tell me what heck does being a man in this day in age even mean? Can someone please describe to me what the role of the modern man is? What is a man? That's a tough question! You have the two extremes. There's the type of man that was very common 60 years ago where the gender roles were very clear. The man would pay, hold doors open, pull out chairs, make the money for the family, rarely cook, leave raising the children more to the woman etc. Now, many men are just the opposite. However, just because it's a more recent trend, does not mean they are the definiton of the modern man. The majority of men are somewhere in between the two extremes. For example, I enjoy paying for dates and such. On the other hand, I don't mind if the woman works and I certainly enjoy doing some of the cooking. I'd have to throw the question back to you. What do you prefer in a man? That is your modern man. We all decide what we want now and chances are it's out there somewhere. It can be very tricky and frustrating, but at the same time can be very satisfying if we find exactly what we want in the opposite gender.
Author Twenty-ten Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 Men are sex toys. Sarcasm aside, that is exactly where it is headed. Here's a similar question for the women: If a woman is not supposed to be an obedient wife and a stay-at-home mother who devotes her life to her husband and children, can someone please tell me what heck does being a woman in this day in age even mean? Can someone please describe to me what the role of the modern woman is? So what you are saying then is that it is women's fault for not being woman enough? I never said men should not show manners to women, opening doors, pulling out chairs, seeing her home, helping her walk in heels, etc. in the other thread, all good things. And I don't know what a "man" is, as just like women, there are as many different types of men as there are fingerprints. I know what type of "man" I am. What I do know is that the old social contract that assumed women worked in the home to support the family while men worked outside the home for income that supported the family exists only as a matter of agreement between two people now, not as an assumption. It is dead as a social institution. So all the social conventions attendant on that old dead social contract need to go away unless the parties agree to them specifically, regardless who benefits from them. Going forward, it's a matter of agreement between two people what kind of family structure they create, what kind of relationship they have, and the social contract is individual, not cultural. Yes the role of each gender in a relationship is to be determined by the two people involved I agree. For the record I didn't start this thread because of your response in the other thread, overhwhelmingly most people agreed that the OP was "out of line in his attempt to pay for the cab or even to suggest that he share the cost simply because he said the words "a girl shouldn't have to pay for the whole thing" He got his head bit off with a dirty or harsh look the night this happened (I can totally see how it went down too I have witnesses the reaction from some women who treat men like they are garbage because they offer something like paying or any act of chivalry for that matter), and then he got ragged out almost unanimously by most of the people on the thread for suggesting what he did. What the...!?!? Have we all lost the plot? So to all the people who find what he did so offensive my question is what is the role of the man in society today? If something as innocent and courteous as that is going to offend so many people what does being a man even mean to all you people? If a man gets on a train before a woman and behind him is a woman and offers her an empty seat, even though he got on first, and a woman is going to give him dirty looks because he had an act of chivalry in offering her a seat, then what is a guy supposed to do? I have sat in packed cars and an elderly woman or a pregnant woman gets on and men sit tight plugged into their iPods while women get up to offer their seat. What is that? Never mind the gender representation of masculine courtesy, it seems manners as a whole are out the window because either men are too scared to offend women (like in the case of the earlier thread) and women are too quick to get offended so where does that leave the role of the man simply from a courtesy stand point? Men complain they want more feminine women and yet they refuse to act like men themselves. Is this something that women with their "I am equal I don't need you" have killed or is it just that men are happily becoming a meek and bland version of what they used to be? I am not happy to become a butchy version of who I am so no change will happen here, despite how independent I may be financially speaking. That's a tough question! You have the two extremes. There's the type of man that was very common 60 years ago where the gender roles were very clear. The man would pay, hold doors open, pull out chairs, make the money for the family, rarely cook, leave raising the children more to the woman etc. Now, many men are just the opposite. However, just because it's a more recent trend, does not mean they are the definiton of the modern man. The majority of men are somewhere in between the two extremes. For example, I enjoy paying for dates and such. On the other hand, I don't mind if the woman works and I certainly enjoy doing some of the cooking. I'd have to throw the question back to you. What do you prefer in a man? That is your modern man. We all decide what we want now and chances are it's out there somewhere. It can be very tricky and frustrating, but at the same time can be very satisfying if we find exactly what we want in the opposite gender. Yes I think you are closest to getting what I have described there seems to be a whole sector of the population that acts in extremes and then another camp that falls in between. So to those of us that fall in between what keeps us hanging on? What I prefer in a man is obvious a man who wants to act like a man, the traditional meaning of a man, he asks the woman out, he has acts of chivalry and then I reciprocate. I don't burp like a guy because I can, and I don't pay for my way on a first date just because I can. It's that simple for me. If I walk towards a door and a man (a stranger) is before me he usually opens the door for me, and I will always always ALWAYS thank him with a smile. Or at work, in a building with different companies on every floor, if we are in a packed elevator the men wait for the women to get out I smile and or nod my head and say thanks and make my way. The younger men (20 somethings) sometimes will walk out first but for the most part men in general let the ladies walk out first. I mean it is something that most parents teach their children, how can that EVER be misconstrued as a derogatory act? I could be struggling to open a door and have many things in my arms and a man will offer to help I wouldn't dream of giving him a dirty look or barking at him "what? I can do it!" I would say thanks and let him or say thanks and smile that I am ok but never get offended at that. Or course I can do it I can clearly fend for myself that is NOT the point. I just don't get that.
SOLACEMENT Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 An adult male human To me this is the only logical non bias meaning of "man"
alphamale Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Can someone please describe to me what the role of the modern man is? to work construction jobs, drink beer and leave the toilet seat up
SOLACEMENT Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 An adult male human To me this is the only logical non bias meaning of "man" Anything else is what we want man to be
Author Twenty-ten Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 An adult male human To me this is the only logical non bias meaning of "man" So let me see if I understood if someone were to ask what the meaning of "lion" is the response would be "a full grown lion"? to work construction jobs, drink beer and leave the toilet seat up Sure, I can accept that that is what makes men distinctly men. So anyone who works other than construction is not a man then?
alphamale Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Sure, I can accept that that is what makes men distinctly men. So anyone who works other than construction is not a man then? no i was joking
Author Twenty-ten Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 Anything else is what we want man to be Huh? So man can mean hairdryer or seahorse then? C'mon are we really that neutralized that it's come to THAT? I know Alpha lol
SOLACEMENT Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 So let me see if I understood if someone were to ask what the meaning of "lion" is the response would be "a full grown lion"? No the answer would be a A large carnivorous feline mammal ... it would not be a creature that attacked me and tore me to pieces I just don't see the point of putting definitions to things like this...now if the question was "what is a man to you " ..I may understand..sorry I am difficult..I try not to be : just one of my flaws
Johnny M Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 So what you are saying then is that it is women's fault for not being woman enough? No, of course not. I blame the Devil
Woggle Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I do think that women killed off with the Gloria Steniem mentality. It seems that us men are wrong no matter what we do so many of us have simply quit trying. If I am damned if I do and damned if I don't then I will not even try please a woman. We can switch it around and say that if women want men to act like men they need to give a little as well but many of them will never admit that their gender did anything whatsoever to contribute to the current state of affairs. It is much easier to sit there and blame men for everything.
SOLACEMENT Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Huh? So man can mean hairdryer or seahorse then? C'mon are we really that neutralized that it's come to THAT? I know Alpha lol You are getting me wrong... I am not good with words : blame the interent I just don't like labels.. I think everyone should have their own form of meaning for everything
Author Twenty-ten Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 I just don't see the point of putting definitions to things like this...now if the question was "what is a man to you " ..I may understand..sorry I am difficult..I try not to be : just one of my flaws No don't apologize all views are welcomed!!! Well for one reason I can think of, so that you don't end up in bed with a woman by mistake. That for me, is incentive enough to define the genders.
Author Twenty-ten Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 No, of course not. I blame the Devil Well the devil is a man, it can't all be guys fault! Ok so it's women who are doing this to men, fair enough I can see that to a certain extent.
skydiveaddict Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 The chivalry thread got me thinking about this question: Can someone please describe to me what the role of the modern man is? What is a man? A man is sort of a " moving entertainment center" for women. And when the warranty is close to expiration, they turn it (him) in on a new one.
Author Twenty-ten Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 A man is sort of a " moving entertainment center" for women. And when the warranty is close to expiration, they turn it (him) in on a new one. Oh that's so sad. That's not what man means to me. But then again I feel like I have minority views so...
Disillusioned Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 What is a man? A man is anyone over 18 who has an X and a Y chromosome. There now, that wasn't so difficult, was it?
Crazy Magnet Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 My BF pays for everything despite my repeated attempts to pay. I've got to get sneakier if I'm going to win this battle!
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