BookerT Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 Had dinner with 3 people last night, and one of them was this new girl I was introduced to. Me, my guy friend and this girl live on the same way home, with her living the furthest so we all shared a cab home. When my guy friend was getting out heroffered to give her some money, she told him he was silly and to she'll pick it up. Then when it was my turn to get out, I offered too, and she told me not to. Then I said "Oh come on, it's not right for a girl to pick up the tab for two guys......" She went "What!?" like she was really offended. I think it meant more like WTF? Are you being sexist? You don't think I can pick up a cab fare? I earn my own money! etc etc. Hey, I would have offered $ to a guy friend as well, plus my comment was not intended to insult. In the good old days when there was chivalry there were certain things men did that were viewed as gentlemanly. Well that's the last time I'm going to open doors, be nice, offer $...... Funny thing is if I didn't offer $ then I'm cheap....WTF!?
Lizzie60 Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 Well .. you did what you had to do.. she refused it.. good for you.. too bad for her.. Move on...
Author BookerT Posted February 11, 2010 Author Posted February 11, 2010 Well .. you did what you had to do.. she refused it.. good for you.. too bad for her.. Move on... Well of course you're right. I was just looking to discuss the type of thinking behind this behavior.
zhsoj Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 Yeah... You said it wrong and it sounds like she over-reacted a bit. More-over I don't see why this would change the way you act so dramatically... Next time leave gender out the retardly simple act of paying for cab fare...
thegreatmoose Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 Then when it was my turn to get out, I offered too, and she told me not to. Then I said "Oh come on, it's not right for a girl to pick up the tab for two guys......" She went "What!?" like she was really offended. I think it meant more like WTF? Are you being sexist? You don't think I can pick up a cab fare? I earn my own money! etc etc. There was no reason to say what you did. She wanted to pay.
silverfish Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 There was no reason to say what you did. She wanted to pay. Reworded thread 'I got a cab ride home with a female friend last night, and she paid without being asked - does that make me look like an idiot on all those 'all women are b*tches who just want your money threads now?'
Silver_star Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 I think you were being polite, and it was her right to refuse. I think she over-reacted. Who knows why. There could be several things she has experienced in her past that this move upset her in some way. I would say that the majority of woman love a chivalrous man, and that could mean alot of different things. It was courteuos and generous of you to offer, but it she could have just as courteously declined and said she was fine thank you. If you insisted, she can either go two ways. Take your money to shut you up, or get upset and tell you that she is fully capable of paying the fare herself. She chose the latter. Dont beat yourself up. Everyone comes from different walks of life. If you want to be chivalrous you can open a door, pull out a chair, offer your coat, and pay for a prearranged date together.
Author BookerT Posted February 11, 2010 Author Posted February 11, 2010 Next time leave gender out the retardly simple act of paying for cab fare... Yes but the point being women complain men no longer do kind things that are blatantly things men used to do for women. Like open doors for a woman. What? Is the woman crippled? Of course not, she can open the door herself. But it's meant to be or used to mean a gesture of respect coming from a gentleman. Now you even bring up stuff like that and some women flip out, whilst other women complain men are a holes now. So really, what do women want? It's like some feminism related insecurity.
ella23 Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 "Oh come on, it's not right for a girl to pick up the tab for two guys......" That's the problem. You should have said, "Oh come on, it's not right for you to have to pick up the tab for two other people......"
Silver_star Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 Yes but the point being women complain men no longer do kind things that are blatantly things men used to do for women. Like open doors for a woman. What? Is the woman crippled? Of course not, she can open the door herself. But it's meant to be or used to mean a gesture of respect coming from a gentleman. Now you even bring up stuff like that and some women flip out, whilst other women complain men are a holes now. So really, what do women want? It's like some feminism related insecurity. Well read my last post. But to answer your question there. All women want different things based on their own experiences and preferences. In general though, if being nice and chivalrous is what you really believe is right and how you were raised to treat women, then do it. No one is going to look down on you for being a stellar guy with values and principle. Women that dont like that can walk on by, and women that do will really appreciate it and smile.
temple Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 Well read my last post. But to answer your question there. All women want different things based on their own experiences and preferences. In general though, if being nice and chivalrous is what you really believe is right and how you were raised to treat women, then do it. No one is going to look down on you for being a stellar guy with values and principle. Women that dont like that can walk on by, and women that do will really appreciate it and smile. I agree. You can't win them all. Just stick with what you believe in.
Twenty-ten Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 I agree this is definitely part of the problem of what has killed chivalry, women reacting just as you described in the OP. Women acting like you had called their mother some horrible name or something. It is typically insecure women who react like this, they feel they need to overtly assert their independence. I sat at a nice restaurant once and a man went to pull the seat for a woman to sit down (they seemed like they were on a first date) and she totally snapped "I am not handicapped I can do this myself thanks" What a classless LOSER! Oh well, thank goodness there are still guys out there who don't let this get to them. Next time don't insist, if she wants to pay for a whole cab when three people are sharing then let her, no skin off your back right?
Twenty-ten Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 (edited) That's the problem. You should have said, "Oh come on, it's not right for you to have to pick up the tab for two other people......" Should he have called her a "womin" too, for fear of offending her if he called her a woman? It's getting ridiculous now with all the PC gender crap, I think I am starting to understand men a lot better now. This board is opening my eyes up to a lot. Edit: and I am starting to understand why foreign women are seeming more appealing to men around here, with butchy women reacting like that who needs to be a man? A feminine girl says "oh that's sweet of you to offer but that's ok I can pick it up, really I don't mind" She doesn't need to react like some drill sergeant and bite the poor guy's head off. Gees. Edited February 11, 2010 by Twenty-ten
Woggle Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 Yet if you don't do this a woman will call you cheap. A man just can't win so why do we keep trying to fit into women's impossible standards? Just be yourself and there will be at least one woman who likes you. Think of it as narrowing down the list to only the good catches.
silverfish Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 Can I just remind everyone that the OP said her response was : 'What?' Er...not sure how this means chivalry is dead. If you were getting a cab home anyway, and people happen to be on your way, what's wrong with paying the whole bill (which you would have paid anyway). She's not his GF, just a friend.
OnlyJake Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 Can I just remind everyone that the OP said her response was : 'What?' Er...not sure how this means chivalry is dead. If you were getting a cab home anyway, and people happen to be on your way, what's wrong with paying the whole bill (which you would have paid anyway). She's not his GF, just a friend. Agreed. They weren't on a date, so OP's claim is irrelevant.
thegreatmoose Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 Reworded thread 'I got a cab ride home with a female friend last night, and she paid without being asked - does that make me look like an idiot on all those 'all women are b*tches who just want your money threads now?' I'm not sure what you're getting at. I'd automatically pay the bill on a date, but if she were to *insist* on sharing the cost I'd say ok.
meerkat stew Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 "Chivalry" as anything resembling a meaningful concept has been dead for 600 years. The word died out when it should have with the end of feudalism, and was revived by hack writers of courtly romance novels 200 years ago. It died again, yet has been revived in the last 20 years as a euphemism for a piece of the old social contract between men and non-working women (at least in the U.S.) that no longer exists. I only recall the term popping up since the very late 80s in articles by airheaded special interest pundits who write articles about "the glass ceiling" one week, and "the death of chivalry" the next. Talking about "chivalry" today is effectively the same as calling a modern American a "Tory," or a "Whig" based on their political beliefs. Today, it has been seized on by women (and misguided men) who want the advantages of equality while maintaining old social customs that favor them. The word sounds better than "free money from men," hence its recent revival. Chivalry decoded today, for the most part, means "men giving money to women because they are women." The statement "chivalry is dead," means, for the most part, "men don't give women free money like they used to." Of course apologists for the term will attempt to deflect from the money part, and talk instead about "kind gestures" such as pulling out chairs, opening doors and seeing to the safety of women in one's company, all fine and worthy habits that I was raised to do, and continue to do, as many men do, -as good manners towards women (who are generally physically weaker and wear longer hair and clothing that can get caught on things)-, but the basic transfer of wealth from one sex to another is really what the term "chivalry" boils down to. OP, your female friend is quality. She wants to be equal and understands -all- this entails. She does not want men paying for her or purchasing her. She makes her own money and enjoys her own independence. These are good things, not bad, IMO. Keep friends like her and seek women to date who are like her. If you want to just open your wallet for women who are no worse nor better socially and economically situated than you are today, go right ahead. As P.T. Barnum said, "There's one born every minute."
Twenty-ten Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 Er...not sure how this means chivalry is dead. If you were getting a cab home anyway, and people happen to be on your way, what's wrong with paying the whole bill (which you would have paid anyway). She's not his GF, just a friend. Because it's her reaction that is uncalled for. He said her reaction was "what?" as if offended. I agree that if she wants to pay her own way since they are not going out she should, but why the stupid reaction? This puts men off. It would put me off if I were a guy. I would be thinking "well what the fck do women want then you try to be a gentleman and she reacts like this?" The OP was probably romantically interested in her and she wasn't in him, but that's a different story. No need to be rude.
thegreatmoose Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 (edited) Edit: and I am starting to understand why foreign women are seeming more appealing to men around here, with butchy women reacting like that who needs to be a man? A feminine girl says "oh that's sweet of you to offer but that's ok I can pick it up, really I don't mind" She doesn't need to react like some drill sergeant and bite the poor guy's head off. Gees. Good point. I think both the OP and the woman were out of line in this case. What a mess. I really think both could have handled it better. Edited February 11, 2010 by thegreatmoose
silverfish Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 Because it's her reaction that is uncalled for. He said her reaction was "what?" as if offended. I agree that if she wants to pay her own way since they are not going out she should, but why the stupid reaction? This puts men off. It would put me off if I were a guy. I would be thinking "well what the fck do women want then you try to be a gentleman and she reacts like this?" The OP was probably romantically interested in her and she wasn't in him, but that's a different story. No need to be rude. I agree with the last sentence, and it seems he took it as a rejection, and that she wasn't interested in him, which may or may not be the case. From what he said, when the other friend got out, it was already established that she wouldn't accept a contribution towards a cab ride that she would have been taking anyway. So maybe she acted 'offended' because she'd already established she was going to get it already. If it was 3 women in a cab (and it's no different, they were all friends, no romantic involvements going on as yet) it would be no different, they would just clock it up, say thanks, and repay the favour at a later date if the opportunity arose, which is what the OP should do
melodymatters Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 Somtimes I say " What ?" instead of "excuse me" or "pardon me?" when I didn't hear or understand something ! Sheesh, we need to autopsy the male/female dynamic ONCE AGAIN because a chick said "What?" Perchance the two men in this situation, acted like the woman who pretends to reach for her wallet after dinner??? I am so sick of this BS. Assuming both parties have good jobs and no pressing expenses, if anything that makes me lean MORE towards the guy paying the first time or two ( Ooooh, 100 bucks tops!) They then take turns,it evens out, and they both know they can afford their perfect yuppie paradise if they decide to co-mingle ! As students, it's whatever crumpled bills we can pul out of our jeans to pitch in for beer and pizza ! If LS is any example of what my 16 yr old can expect from "men" nowadays, I think I'll encourage her to go gay ! Everyone here is so perfect and judgemental and hostile towards everyone else lately....ewwww:sick:
Alma Mobley Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 I agree with Melody. The girl said, "What?" in response to an odd statement. Big deal. And this was an outing among friends, not a date, and has nothing to do with chivalry which was more accurately defined earlier in the thread by Meerkat.
Twenty-ten Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 I agree with the last sentence, and it seems he took it as a rejection, and that she wasn't interested in him, which may or And you don't agree that if you want to pick up the tab for someone and they react in a bothered "what?" and look at you like you are a two headed monster, it is uncalled for?
silverfish Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 And you don't agree that if you want to pick up the tab for someone and they react in a bothered "what?" and look at you like you are a two headed monster, it is uncalled for? No, I don't, if it was already established she was picking up the tab, No need to push the issue again when he got out of the cab. Maybe she picked up on the fact it made him uncomfortable, when a simple 'thanks' would have been polite, not a rant on LS about how she pretty much sliced his balls off (which she didn't)
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