Spark1111 Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 After experiencing the betrayal of infidelity, the need for boundaries becomes even more important, IMHO. I had them. Obviously, my WS did not. So, during the process of reconciliation, if it makes ONE of us uncomfortable, it simply is not done, such as: Bachelor or bachelorette parties where young, half-naked dancers offer lap dances. Work-time lunches ALONE with an opposite sex co-worker. Nights out socializing with the girlfriends or guy friends always include an invitation whenever possible to the spouse. (Interesting to note that there is LESS interest in spending time apart from each other since reconciling.) Constant discussion about the people in our lives, especially co-workers., people we may need to hire, etc. (My WS's affair started with a co-worker I knew nothing about!) Complete access to cell phones, passwords, internet accounts, fb...etc. One of my WS's insecurities is the workplace, where HIS affair started and went undetected for 1.5 years! In an effort to have him understand the pain he caused us, I often used hypotheticals, such as "How would you feel if I had said 'A' to you but had secretly done 'B'? It is imagining me replicating his affair actions that causes him the greatest pain but also, the greatest understanding of those actions. Even if we hadn't reconciled, I would never be the naive, trusting soul I had been before, DDAY. Every new relationship I embarked upon would clear expectations regarding boundaries. So, what has worked for you? What boundaries have you set for yourself, or your relationships to protect against ever feeling this pain again? I know. There are NO guarantees, but I am curious as to how people have implemented concrete plans to safeguard, either themselves, current relationships, or future ones.
dreamingoftigers Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 My husband and I work together so that is not a hard place to set boundaries. What we have set though in regards to his addictive problems is that we agreed he cannot use the computer without me here. I take the computer with me when I leave (it is a laptop). His personal credit card has also been cancelled. He goes to meetings and "checks in" with me every weeks on his progress or if he has had struggles. We are planning on moving into a house and renting a couple of the rooms, we have agreed there will be no female renters.
Dexter Morgan Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 i have a question about all this creating boundaries thing. to me, I really don't see the point. All you are really doing is telling a cheating spouse what they aren't allowed to do certain things that they'd still really like to do. like my X, if I had stayed with her, the boundary I would have set would be that she doesn't go to bars or clubs, and coming home after a particular time is unacceptable as a married person. but what would I really be doing? I'd be stopping her from doing what she would still like to do. she may have agreed to the boundaries, but inside, she would be pining for doing those things. i know, not all cheaters are suppose to still want the same things that got them in trouble in the first place....but I don't really buy it. I think if you tell a cheater they aren't allowed to, for example, go clubbing.....I think they still want to do it, but don't otherwise the marriage is over. so I guess my point is, why even keep someone that wants to do those things, whether you are successful in keeping them from doing them or not?
anne1707 Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 As a former WS, I actually agree with Dexter to an extent. After Dday, my H did not set boundaries for me. What would have been the point? What was needed was for me to CHOOSE to apply those boundaries rather than feeling obliged to. I had to do it because I wanted to and not because that would be the way to smooth things over. The fact that he could see me doing this without him asking has helped in our recovery.
wheelwright Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 i have a question about all this creating boundaries thing. to me, I really don't see the point. All you are really doing is telling a cheating spouse what they aren't allowed to do certain things that they'd still really like to do. like my X, if I had stayed with her, the boundary I would have set would be that she doesn't go to bars or clubs, and coming home after a particular time is unacceptable as a married person. but what would I really be doing? I'd be stopping her from doing what she would still like to do. she may have agreed to the boundaries, but inside, she would be pining for doing those things. i know, not all cheaters are suppose to still want the same things that got them in trouble in the first place....but I don't really buy it. I think if you tell a cheater they aren't allowed to, for example, go clubbing.....I think they still want to do it, but don't otherwise the marriage is over. so I guess my point is, why even keep someone that wants to do those things, whether you are successful in keeping them from doing them or not? Oh my goodness you sound almost human in this post dexter. And like there is some external factor that might shape your ideas. Can you want to go clubbing if you never cheated?
seren Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I have never set boundaries simply because I don't own him or his actions. I have always expected him to not do something behind my back he couldn't do in front of my face. In other words I trusted him - after D day I had to believe I could still trust him despite his A. So no boundaries, just an expectation of the truth always, no matter what. He has promised and I believe.
crazycatlady Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I have to echo Seren, mostly because I do believe what she is saying is correct for us, but also because I never confronted H either about the fact that I know. But even if I confronted him about it, I wouldn't put limits on his behavior. Instead I would ask for him to maybe next time let me know where I wasn't giving him what he needed during that time, see if its something I could work on, or if it was something more he wanted, then he really should be up front and honest about it. CCL
angie2443 Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I'm wondering how people posting here interpret the word boundary. I view it as a word I use to tell my partner what I can and can and can't live with in a relationship. I have never told my partner to not do this or that. I have told him that I can't be in a relationship if he crosses certain lines. I can only hope he either doesn't cross those lines, or, if he feels that he has to in order to be happy, he tells me so I can end our relationship and find another that fits me better.
datura_noir Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Angie, I second that. My boundaries are just that-MINE. If he crosses them, then the consequences are his to deal with. I never DEMANDED NC, but I did state that he could be friends with her still, but I would be gone. OR, he could give up the friendship, and work on us. NO demands, just a choice.
seren Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Angie, I second that. My boundaries are just that-MINE. If he crosses them, then the consequences are his to deal with. I never DEMANDED NC, but I did state that he could be friends with her still, but I would be gone. OR, he could give up the friendship, and work on us. NO demands, just a choice. This makes perfect sense to me. It os one of the myths I think associated with the aftermath of a D day, that BS demand X,Y or Z and AP doesn't contact OW/OM just incase. I too gave a choice, stay and we will work on it but I need the truth, or go and we will divide up our life and I have the choice to find someone else. No drama, well a little drama, but no threats. I know this all sounds very laid back, trust me it wasn't, but still no demands and yes, I have personal boundaries, just reinforced them after D Day and they are non negotiable. Honesty, honesty, honesty.
hopeless4u Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 i have a question about all this creating boundaries thing. to me, I really don't see the point. All you are really doing is telling a cheating spouse what they aren't allowed to do certain things that they'd still really like to do. like my X, if I had stayed with her, the boundary I would have set would be that she doesn't go to bars or clubs, and coming home after a particular time is unacceptable as a married person. but what would I really be doing? I'd be stopping her from doing what she would still like to do. she may have agreed to the boundaries, but inside, she would be pining for doing those things. i know, not all cheaters are suppose to still want the same things that got them in trouble in the first place....but I don't really buy it. I think if you tell a cheater they aren't allowed to, for example, go clubbing.....I think they still want to do it, but don't otherwise the marriage is over. so I guess my point is, why even keep someone that wants to do those things, whether you are successful in keeping them from doing them or not? I agree with this, my xMM on the 1st DDay was told he couldn't do this, he couldn't do that, all this did was piss him off, maybe because his heart wasn't in it but also because if a BS decides to work on the M IMO how can they even start without trust. Don't get me wrong I understand the trust has been broken (I've been there, long ago) but if you don't believe the WS and stop them doing stuff they like then surly that just drives them back to the AP, it did my xMM, enough for a 2nd DDay.
Author Spark1111 Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 Oh, none of these were demands by anyone...sorry if that was misunderstood. These were choices we both agreed to. I NEVER demanded NC, because what would be the point? NC had to be willingly initiated by him, and he had to allow me to verify, verify, verify, his whereabouts (Where's OWL?) When we were beginning to reconcile, I was still out of my mind in that he could have said the sky was blue, and I wouldn't have believed him. It took a long time to regain my trust, and he was as open and as transparent as a person could possibly be. Often he would call me at a business dinner meeting and hand the phone over to his business contact to say hello. Everything then progressed as a natural choice in the reconciliation by the both of us. He wanted this also. It is a natural part of the healing process for the WS to suffer from projection; they start to feel extreme jealousy in, having realized how easy it is to lie to someone who loves you, they now NEED REASSURANCES that you, the BS, is not doing to them what they did to you. So, I was wondering what are some of the relationship, or personal boundaries others have put into place since the affair?
Author Spark1111 Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 Oh wait....the only demands I made three months after DDay, when he wanted to desperately reconcile were: IC, eventually MC, total transparency which I could verify, and even with all that..... No guarantees I would be able to continue in a relationship with him. I also told him that if there was accidental or intentional contact with xOW, and he did not tell me about it, I would walk. (They work together) It wasn't the contact I objected to...sometimes that cannot be helped. It was the keeping of one more secret from me that would drive me over the edge. He willing agreed to it all. It is since that time that we have chosen additional boundaries to protect the relationship.
hopeless4u Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Oh wait....the only demands I made three months after DDay, when he wanted to desperately reconcile were: IC, eventually MC, total transparency which I could verify, and even with all that..... No guarantees I would be able to continue in a relationship with him. I also told him that if there was accidental or intentional contact with xOW, and he did not tell me about it, I would walk. (They work together) It wasn't the contact I objected to...sometimes that cannot be helped. It was the keeping of one more secret from me that would drive me over the edge. He willing agreed to it all. It is since that time that we have chosen additional boundaries to protect the relationship. I don't mean this in a negative way towards you and your H as I know every situation is different but how do you know he is telling you the truth? I also work with my xMM and we have had 2 DDays, the last one only a week ago. Both times he promised NC with me to his W and both times he has broken it, not to resume the A but to try and 'do the right thing' by me. He has told me he is still in love with me but needs to 'sort his head out'. He has told his W that we have had NC and although we have had only LC it is still there. His W has accepted him back both times, this latest he has moved out to be by himself and even though he has lied to her constantly she is still asking him to come home. Just how much would you put up with to keep a man as your H?? I'm very confused as when I found out my xH cheated (long time ago) I tried for a while but once I knew my heart wasn't there I was out.
LakesideDream Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 Boundries? I asked her not to come inside my house without being invited. Lotta good it did, she burgled me a couple of times anyway. Not the end of the world though I wish she hadn't done it.
Dexter Morgan Posted February 15, 2010 Posted February 15, 2010 Oh my goodness you sound almost human in this post dexter. dont push it Can you want to go clubbing if you never cheated? sure.....but there is a reason people want to go clubbing. and it aint "just to dance".
dprtman09 Posted February 17, 2010 Posted February 17, 2010 The biggest problem my W and I had was getting objective enough to accept boundaries. She has boudaries now for sure and she's honoring them as far as I can tell. Don't think I haven't checked. We ahve spent more time together since we decided to reconcile and it has been great. She and I both come up with ideas for things we can do together. That was a problem in the past. She gets time to shop for groceries and such on her own. I actually told her that it was because she still needs some time to herself. Our 6-year-old is not a good person to shop with and it gives me some "dad" time with him. Every time though, she lets me know where she is and when she's coming back. We have really opened up regarding our discussions of boundaries and why they need to be for a while. She knows she has to regain my trust and re-establish a routine, if you will, that will let me know if something's wrong so that we can fix whatever it is. All I can say, Spark, is don't ever get ignorant. It seems you never were. Both of you have to work at the marriage every day once the A is history. If the rules are clear the WS will follow them because they want to succeed, not because the rules are pushed down their throat. Such is my opinion on how to set boundaries.
Author Spark1111 Posted February 17, 2010 Author Posted February 17, 2010 I don't mean this in a negative way towards you and your H as I know every situation is different but how do you know he is telling you the truth? I also work with my xMM and we have had 2 DDays, the last one only a week ago. Both times he promised NC with me to his W and both times he has broken it, not to resume the A but to try and 'do the right thing' by me. He has told me he is still in love with me but needs to 'sort his head out'. He has told his W that we have had NC and although we have had only LC it is still there. His W has accepted him back both times, this latest he has moved out to be by himself and even though he has lied to her constantly she is still asking him to come home. Just how much would you put up with to keep a man as your H?? I'm very confused as when I found out my xH cheated (long time ago) I tried for a while but once I knew my heart wasn't there I was out. SHe showed up recently at his office, unannounced and uninvited, asking relationship advice regarding a new boyfriend. He asked me to call her and tell her to leave us both alone, as in NC means NC. Could he be the world's best actor? Possibly, but I don't think so. I'd be gone on a whiff of infidelity at his point. Could he be lying?
Snowflower Posted February 17, 2010 Posted February 17, 2010 The term 'boundaries' often has a inaccurate connotation, IMO. The term often implies control. Boundaries have to be agreed upon and enforced by both spouses. To me, if I have to set boundaries for my spouse, then they are meaningless, i.e. "no, you can't go to the bar with your friends." It seems controlling and paranoid. Rather, the willingness to set boundaries has to come from the WS/fWS, i.e. "I will go to the bar but I will not allow myself to get into a dangerous situation." Same thing with NC. When a BS tries to force the WS to go NC with the AP (lots of acronyms here!), it is also meaningless. The WS has to be willing to go NC on their own for it to be effective. The WS willingly stepped out of their marriage to have an A. If they are wanting to step back into the marriage (by enforcing their own boundaries, establishing NC, etc) it has to come from them, the WS. Coercion rarely, if ever, works. Hope that makes sense.
MizFit Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 SHe showed up recently at his office, unannounced and uninvited, asking relationship advice regarding a new boyfriend. He asked me to call her and tell her to leave us both alone, as in NC means NC. Could he be the world's best actor? Possibly, but I don't think so. I'd be gone on a whiff of infidelity at his point. Could he be lying? Sadly to say...yes. A woman I worked with years ago had a spouse who set up a few 'incidents' like that to throw her off the scent...over a year later she caught him again with the same woman. I'm sure not every WS would go to those lengths and quite frankly everything you've said about your H leads me to believe you have none of those 'gut' feelings so I'm sure all's well, but it does happen.
Hazyhead Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 SHe showed up recently at his office, unannounced and uninvited, asking relationship advice regarding a new boyfriend. He asked me to call her and tell her to leave us both alone, as in NC means NC. Could he be the world's best actor? Possibly, but I don't think so. I'd be gone on a whiff of infidelity at his point. Could he be lying? Do you worry about it, Spark? From what you've revealed about your M, it sounds like he genuinely puts your marriage first, and I'm sure he knows you'd be gone at a whiff of it, but would you really? If he could convince you again that he would recommit, would you buy it? I honestly don't think he'd risk it and I'm not saying this to undermine your thoughts on him, I'm just curious as a forgiving BS, would you go through that hell again?
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