Question for women: Romance novels and relationships?

[meerkat stew]

Hmm then isn't it more of erotica than romance? Or would you call it a graphic subgenre of noir fiction?

 

The latter, will do some research and see if they still exist, have a buddy who owns a porn boutique (primarily catering to women), he should know.

 

Ahahaha- You are terrible! There are already a plentiful stereotypes of the highly sexualised East! Plus, just like many old western films/novels, Lawrence of Arabia-themed romances in the old times were horrid with its racist descriptions. I'm so glad we are past that.

 

Highly sexualized East? Not as familiar other than in Hinduism, Tibetan Buddism and certain Japanese Netsuke (sp?). Was just playing on a silly thought I had comparing the "Man in the Mountain," who was real, with a fictional cousin "The Man in the Boat," given the thread topic's inspiration. No racial commentary intended. Actually imagine (but have no real idea) that fundamentalist Islam takes a dim view of cunnilingus.

[meerkat stew]

Hey! I thought it went sand, gravel, MELON, chicken...

 

Ah quite right, however melons were in short supply, as the "Man in the Boat" had a proclivity for melon ball shooters.

[EnglishMuffin]

Highly sexualized East? Not as familiar other than in Hinduism, Tibetan Buddism and certain Japanese Netsuke (sp?). Was just playing on a silly thought I had comparing the "Man in the Mountain," who was real, with a fictional cousin "The Man in the Boat," given the thread topic's inspiration. No racial commentary intended. Actually imagine (but have no real idea) that fundamentalist Islam takes a dim view of cunnilingus.

 

It is the false representation/plot. Some historical romance authors use the "oh s/he learned it while staying in the mysterious East" for explaining the spicy sex scenes where the Victorian hero/heroine is knowledgeable about sex as much as contemporary readers do (although for some reason the virgin heroine remains untouched but knows all skills, sigh). It is a silly, anachronistic plot device, which can be compared to the 60s TV/film representation of Asian women being either a sensuous masseuse or a martial artist dragon lady.

[sumdude]

This is a really interesting parallel you've drawn Sumdude I never thought of it that way but I think you are on to something here...

 

To answer your question on how has romance in fiction affected my relationships if I am brutally honest, at one point in my life when I was much more naive and had much less experience it affected me deeply. I did draw up a lot of conclusions of what the male archetype was comprised of from what I saw in all the romantic fiction I consumed. I did however learn the hard way that men, REAL men, are not so like that. They have flaws not all guys are born to be romantics, and sometimes guys can be very selfish instead of thoughtful and consumed with thoughts of how he can impress his woman. I think that was the biggest deception of all. Even so, I have been balanced in how I view fiction vs reality but there are instances of where those lines crossed and merged and lead to destruction.

 

 

It was painful because this caused some deep problems in my earlier relationships, but over time I learned to embrace men for how they really are not on what my mind dictates. Also I have to say that as I've overcome my own insecurities, this was a huge factor in the process of acceptance towards others.

 

 

I appreciate your open mind to the very rough parallel I've drawn. I know I started this thread in response to the porn thread. I have an experience to share which may explain why I see it similarly.

 

In my relationship with my ex wife. Early on the sex was amazing and only got better for a while. The emotional connection was very intense and physically it was great. If there had been a camera in the room it would have been one heck of a porn movie. Over time things died down a bit naturally but I was always hot for her.

 

Then, more and more my advances were rejected. At the same time she starting reading a lot of romance novels and watching a ton of Lifetime TV. The negative portrayals of men on some of those shows were just awful. Here I was a man who loved her, wanted her and was doing everything I could think of to please as a lover. As I became more sexually frustrated I had to find ways to deal with it which included looking at porn. I wasn't going to go outside of our committed relationship.

 

Her escaping into those fantasies contributed to the downfall of our marriage. In the end she was the one who went outside the marriage, had the affair and left. Not to say i was perfect and blameless in the failure of the marriage but I kept trying until I ran out of ideas.

 

It's a shame. I haven't felt that way with anyone else. I've had the real thing. I should count myself lucky because many people have never had it.

[Jersey Shortie]

Romance Novels Common Concepts VS. Porn Common Concepts

 

 

Romance novels present a story about finding love, family and overcoming a certain trial or trouble.

 

Porn presents a story about the quickest way a woman could fall into bed, a car, a train, a bus..with you and then leaving her while the man walks away completely unaccountable for anything.

 

Romance novels do not refer to men in names. Infact, they are usually about showcasing the good qualities in men. Such as strength, loyalty, honor and respect and do not discriminate based on age.

 

Porn refer to women in many four letter words. Go to the extremes of slapping women around, calling them names, ejaculating right in their faces, zipping up his pants walking away satisfied and not giving a second though to the woman. Most of the women in porn or mostly of a certain limited age that often could be the age of the guys watching it, own daughter.

 

Romance novels, while mostly enjoyed by women, is not something MOST women are masturbating to.

 

Porn is clearly something MOST men are masturbating to.

 

Romance novels are to women, what video games are to men. An activity enjoyed by one gender more then the other, that most likely isn’t being used as a masturbation tool, and is yes, an escape from reality with sexual components in it of both genders. However, romance novels do not demean men in the manner that porn demeans women.

 

I do not know one woman that asked her partner to read a romance novel with her to “spice” it up in the bedroom.

 

I know tons of men that asked their partner to watch porn to “spice” it up in the bedroom.

 

Women do not ask that their husbands dress, act, preen, or conform to romance novel style men, even in the confines of the bedroom!

 

Men regularly ask women to dress, act, preen, and conform to porn style ideas, especially in the confines of the bedroom!

 

Romance novels are fantasy.

Porn is fantasy. That is the *only* thing they have in common.

 

Romance novels do not come free, right into your home the second you want one, anonymously.

 

Porn comes free, right into your home, the second you want one, anonymously.

 

Romance novels make its money by telling a story about factional people, doing factional acts. There are no real people paid to act or make the story.

 

Porn makes its money by using real people, engaging in real acts, showing real depictions of people doing real things even if it’s based on a factional story or fantasy.

 

What do you think has more sway? The visual of a billion dollar industry that comes free into your home at the click of a mouse? Or an industry that is based on the written word that you still have to pay for to get that is more about what you visualize in your head then having something so in your face as visualized on screen?

 

How often do you think the average woman spends reading a romance novel compared to how often the average male turns to porn as an outlet?

 

How often have you heard a woman request that her husband conform to the romance and sexuality in a romance novel compared to how often you have heard a man request that a woman conform to the sexuality in a porn?

 

I can come up with more.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Jersey Shortie

[AAlike]

Round 4538923144 - here we go!!!

 

Actually, tv shows and movies for men are what tv shows and movies are to women. Lets not pretend that men do not have any tv shows or movies that gear to their fantasy just as women do. To compare tv shows and movies for women to porn is to ignore the fact that men also have tv shows and movies for them.

 

Of course they do. TV as a whole is fantasy.

 

But 99% of the cases, a man isn't masturbating to a video game. Most women don't masturbate to a romance novel.

 

What does that have to do with the comparison? The point of the analogy is simple - one of your main issues with porn is that it creates a fantasy world for men, one full of ideals that an "average Jill" cannot possibly expect to live up to. And most of the porn detractors that have somewhat agreed with you have restated this same thing. OP's question has plenty of merit in this regard, and has even cited his real life example of a romantic "ideal" driving his wife away.

 

Personally, my argument on this front would be the same as with porn - anyone who is not able to delineate fantasy from reality is probably unfit for a healthy relationship anyway - and when someone starts to "slip" into the fantasy world, they probably weren't happy with reality to begin with for whatever reason.

 

It might be something they enjoy but they don't masturabe to it and the don't expect their men to dress up like men from it. And they don't even ask their men to read them with them to "get excited". On the other hand, men ask women to dress like like the women they see in porn or ask them to be more like the women they see in porn and they ask their partners to watch it with them. Romance novels also do not degrade men. Call them names. Mock them. Exploit them.

 

This is a recurring theme in your posts. Where are you getting this "data" that "men" - a term you use in a hilariously broad sense - are regularly asking their women to dress like women in porn? Female participants in this thread, have you often been asked to "dress like you are in porn"? Once again, I really think you overstate the importance that porn plays in a healthy relationship.

 

but again, this has nothing to do with OP's analogy. your issue with the content of porn (which is obviously your personal opinion) is completely unrelated to the point of the post.

 

Usually characters in romance novels are honorable men who do the right thing and save the day..and the likes of that.

 

Exactly!! The male protagonist in a romance novel, or modern-day romantic comedy is NEVER some average joe with a little beer gut that clocks $40K a year and shops at Target! why do you think that is? he's busy "saving the day", right? Just as the female porn "star" is never in her mid-30's with some minor stretch marks and some sagging breasts, right?

 

It's good that once in a while you stumble on understanding the question at hand.

 

Romance novels are nothing compared to what porn is. Nothing. It's a completely unfair and baised comparison.

 

Obviously in a literal, content-wise sense they are different.

 

Fortunately though, the other women in this thread understand the validity of the analogy and have addressed it as such.

 

As for how these romance novels have affected relationships. Well quite honestly, women don't ask men to be like some lame romance novel hero to the extent men ask women be more like the women in porn. while women might like to get flowers, they don't ask that their man read a stupid novel with them while she simpers the male figure in it. Women don't ask their men to act or be like a man in a novel.

 

Yes, relationships are never, ever ended because of a woman holding a man to an unattainable standard! women never do that!

 

If you truly believe this, then you are even more gender-biased than I realized.

 

men do ask women to act or be like the women they see in porn. Women don't call men four letter names in romance novels. That's a regular accourance in porn. Women don't disinergrate men based on their age in romance novels. That is another thing that happens to women in porn.

 

more stuff only relevant to your personal feelings and not the analogy...although I must say, even though I assume that you meant "discriminate" in your sentence about age, I got this vision of a woman reading a romance novel and her hubby going "POOF" into a cloud of dust (disintegrating) - I got a kick out of that.

[sumdude]

The question was more how they have affected relationships. Not compare and contrast porn targeted at men vs. media targeted at women . Obviously in a literal sense they are different. Many women are drawn to their versions of romantic sexual fantasies in similar ways men are drawn to more direct sexual fantasies.

 

In fact there are porn companies which produce porn specifically for women. The story lines and characters are different yet.. same goal.

 

I'm not here to defend porn per se.. a lot of it I find disturbing and I avoid those genres. I also know women who do enjoy some ..shall we say more deviant practices?

 

Men do not hold all responsibility and are not the only participants in all of this. Women can be just as freaky as men when it comes to fetishes etc. We are not the enemy!

[Jersey Shortie]

I don't understand what you are nitpicking about Sumdude. You asked for a comparison about porn vs. romance novels. I don't think the two are comparable. I've stated my case why. I think men are deeply affected by pornography in ways that romance novels don't even begin to compare to. I think if you want a fair dicussion, you have to be willing to admit the differences in the two mediums. The world isn't becoming more "romancized"..it has however become more "pornified".

 

We are not the enemy!

 

Then why does it seem like enough men are happy to treat some women like the are expendable and worthless, in "fantasy"?

[sumdude]

I don't understand what you are nitpicking about Sumdude. You asked for a comparison about porn vs. romance novels. I don't think the two are comparable. I've stated my case why. I think men are deeply affected by pornography in ways that romance novels don't even begin to compare to. I think if you want a fair dicussion, you have to be willing to admit the differences in the two mediums. The world isn't becoming more "romancized"..it has however become more "pornified".

 

 

 

Then why does it seem like enough men are happy to treat some women like the are expendable and worthless, in "fantasy"?

 

We'll just have to disagree then. I asked how it affected relationships. The disagreement is about the premise.

 

..and believe me men are just as often deemed expendable.

[AAlike]

I don't understand what you are nitpicking about Sumdude. You asked for a comparison about porn vs. romance novels.

 

LOL this is great - Sumdude, even though you asked the original question, and sent a second message reclarfying your question, I'm going to TELL you that you asked a different question!

 

I don't think any man has been affected by porn as badly as you've been affected by the land of internet forums - you should try earth for a while again!

[paddington bear]

I appreciate your open mind to the very rough parallel I've drawn. I know I started this thread in response to the porn thread. I have an experience to share which may explain why I see it similarly.

 

In my relationship with my ex wife. Early on the sex was amazing and only got better for a while. The emotional connection was very intense and physically it was great. If there had been a camera in the room it would have been one heck of a porn movie. Over time things died down a bit naturally but I was always hot for her.

 

Then, more and more my advances were rejected. At the same time she starting reading a lot of romance novels and watching a ton of Lifetime TV. The negative portrayals of men on some of those shows were just awful. Here I was a man who loved her, wanted her and was doing everything I could think of to please as a lover. As I became more sexually frustrated I had to find ways to deal with it which included looking at porn. I wasn't going to go outside of our committed relationship.

 

Her escaping into those fantasies contributed to the downfall of our marriage. In the end she was the one who went outside the marriage, had the affair and left. Not to say i was perfect and blameless in the failure of the marriage but I kept trying until I ran out of ideas.

 

It's a shame. I haven't felt that way with anyone else. I've had the real thing. I should count myself lucky because many people have never had it.

 

From what you've written here, I would say that rather than being the cause of the lack of sexual interest from your wife, that these books were an escape after that happened on her side.

 

I do think they are porn for women, on the level that they are complete fantasies (men's fantasies, easy sex with hot girls - women's fantasies, romantic alphamale sweeps the off their feet, falls desperately in love with them), none of us who have read these things want total alpha, dominant men who are aggressive and a bit controlling, but it taps into that kind of fantasy world of women of basically being totally adored by some overprotective male who would die rather than not be with you.

 

I watched a British documentary ('Reader I Married Him') about romance novels and what was interesting was that they were mentioned as helping the relationships of many women, reduced stress levels and increased their desire for sex. I honestly couldn't say that they sway women's thinking as to what men 'should be like' because people read them knowing that they are formulaic and unrealistic.

 

When my last LTR went downhill I went off into a mode of shutting myself off, I ended up numbly watching lots of crappy daytime TV. In retrospect the crappy TV was the symptom of problems, not the cause of, it could equally have been romance novels or something else. I got depressed and retreated into another world, without realising how unhappy I was.

[PJKino]

I honestly couldn't say that they sway women's thinking as to what men 'should be like' because people read them knowing that they are formulaic and unrealistic.

 

 

But i dont think Men for the most part do that with porn either,its a very small percentage just like this guys wife who got caught up in the romance novel its the minority so are the amount of Men who leave relationships becasue porn warped their mind..

 

Neither genre is evil its the people who abuse it like any other vice..Alcohol smoking whatever

[sumdude]

From what you've written here, I would say that rather than being the cause of the lack of sexual interest from your wife, that these books were an escape after that happened on her side.

 

I do think they are porn for women, on the level that they are complete fantasies (men's fantasies, easy sex with hot girls - women's fantasies, romantic alphamale sweeps the off their feet, falls desperately in love with them), none of us who have read these things want total alpha, dominant men who are aggressive and a bit controlling, but it taps into that kind of fantasy world of women of basically being totally adored by some overprotective male who would die rather than not be with you.

 

I watched a British documentary ('Reader I Married Him') about romance novels and what was interesting was that they were mentioned as helping the relationships of many women, reduced stress levels and increased their desire for sex. I honestly couldn't say that they sway women's thinking as to what men 'should be like' because people read them knowing that they are formulaic and unrealistic.

 

When my last LTR went downhill I went off into a mode of shutting myself off, I ended up numbly watching lots of crappy daytime TV. In retrospect the crappy TV was the symptom of problems, not the cause of, it could equally have been romance novels or something else. I got depressed and retreated into another world, without realising how unhappy I was.

 

This is what I was alluding to. As far as which came first in my exes case? Seems like a chicken and egg scenario from my point of view.

 

What was striking to me? She started escaping her way.. then I started escaping in mine. Both of us weren't getting something we expected in the relationship and found surrogates. A sad state of affairs.

[AAlike]

I do think they are porn for women, on the level that they are complete fantasies (men's fantasies, easy sex with hot girls - women's fantasies, romantic alphamale sweeps the off their feet, falls desperately in love with them), none of us who have read these things want total alpha, dominant men who are aggressive and a bit controlling, but it taps into that kind of fantasy world of women of basically being totally adored by some overprotective male who would die rather than not be with you.

 

 

best paragraph written yet. great work.

[paddington bear]

This is what I was alluding to. As far as which came first in my exes case? Seems like a chicken and egg scenario from my point of view.

 

What was striking to me? She started escaping her way.. then I started escaping in mine. Both of us weren't getting something we expected in the relationship and found surrogates. A sad state of affairs.

 

You can think chicken and egg, but honestly, unless your ex was rather strangely wired, I would assume that egg came first and then the chicken. As in, for some reason her feelings towards your relationship changed, and she retreated into a fantasy world.

 

When you have a real life breathing, living man who loves you and wants you, you wouldn't jeopardise that by focusing on entirely fictional relationships to the detriment of the real relationship. Many of us I'm sure use something, be it working longer or whatever as an escape from having to deal with unsaid, and sometimes unconscious, uncomfortable emotions about the state of your relationship. You using your surrogate was from the sounds of it a reaction towards being shut out emotionally. And that is for both sides very sad.

 

The problem with romance novels, fairy tales and rom com movies is that they generally stop at the point where the couple finally realise that they are made for each other. We have not so many cultural references as to how to sustain relationships beyond that point and I think that is a far greater problem. We're taught 'find the guy/girl, fall in love, marry and taaa daaaa! Your life will be filled with joy and happiness from then on in'. Guess the drudgery of day to day life doesn't make for drama.

[paddington bear]

To clarify about the last paragraph. I think that's a problem for women. We're all taught that the goal is the marriage day, marriage. Full stop. So there is this big, major deal made out of this one goddamn day and anything that follows is bound to be a disappointment if 'the goal is marriage' is how you've been thinking regarding relationships.

[PJKino]

To clarify about the last paragraph. I think that's a problem for women. We're all taught that the goal is the marriage day, marriage. Full stop. So there is this big, major deal made out of this one goddamn day and anything that follows is bound to be a disappointment if 'the goal is marriage' is how you've been thinking regarding relationships.

 

My sister once told me that for some women their weddings more important then the actual guy they married at times..

 

They thought about this day their whole lives and after that it goes downhill becasue they expect everyday to match that

[sumdude]

The problem with romance novels, fairy tales and rom com movies is that they generally stop at the point where the couple finally realise that they are made for each other. We have not so many cultural references as to how to sustain relationships beyond that point and I think that is a far greater problem. We're taught 'find the guy/girl, fall in love, marry and taaa daaaa! Your life will be filled with joy and happiness from then on in'. Guess the drudgery of day to day life doesn't make for drama.

 

Yes, these problems started after the actual wedding. We had lived together for five years previously. Seemed like.. eh.. OK I got what I thought I wanted.. now what? Like the dog if it finally chases the car down.

 

How true, the only real role models we have for keeping a relationship working is our family. Beyond that there's possibly religion then society at large which in particular means the media.

 

But what models do we really have when it comes to sexuality? I know in my family sex was rarely if ever a subject mentioned much by parents which I think is quite common. So what do we have to turn to? I mean let's face it most western religions have some pretty bizarre ways of handling the subject. Some eastern religions actually do a better job of it. Otherwise we have society at large using schools, popular culture, media and peer groups.

[You'reasian]

Certain female posters hate men, yet love 'em lol

[Ms. Joolie]

When it comes to learning about day-to-day real relationships, there is no past reference we can go to.

 

Society changes from decade to decade. Even if we go ten years back, we don't have a great reference. With the explosion of the internet and texting and such, relationships again have changed due to these added dimensions and who knows what else the last decade has ushered in.

 

It's all good.

 

But we have to constantly create our own path as we go. There is no past reference. Age after age holds on to some idea of love and/or sexuality.

 

Romance novelties and porn act as a sort of pop culture reference.

[sumdude]

When it comes to learning about day-to-day real relationships, there is no past reference we can go to.

 

 

To a point perhaps. But we learn the most from our parents at the most impressionable age. We carry their genes, their mannerisms and usually their ideals to some extent.

[paddington bear]

Yes, these problems started after the actual wedding. We had lived together for five years previously. Seemed like.. eh.. OK I got what I thought I wanted.. now what? Like the dog if it finally chases the car down.

 

How true, the only real role models we have for keeping a relationship working is our family. Beyond that there's possibly religion then society at large which in particular means the media.

 

But what models do we really have when it comes to sexuality? I know in my family sex was rarely if ever a subject mentioned much by parents which I think is quite common. So what do we have to turn to? I mean let's face it most western religions have some pretty bizarre ways of handling the subject. Some eastern religions actually do a better job of it. Otherwise we have society at large using schools, popular culture, media and peer groups.

 

I was brought up by a single mother and she described my dad as the love of her life and she never got over the loss of him. Throughout my childhood she told me 'never marry. never marry'. Now of course that I'm in my late 30's and single without kids, she's decided that she wants grandchildren and is worried that she'll die without knowing that I'm settled and happy with a good man, she has changed her tune...but it's too late in a way, her early advice I think has stuck to some degree.

 

The point is, I guess I never had that marriage fantasy (which is in one way good...in another, I may have been brainwashed against commitment and relationships for life).

 

I do think the goal of marriage, the wedding day is a major, major problem for many women, they focus on getting the man, getting the commitment, showing all their peers that 'look I'm getting MARRIED' that they simply do not think about what happens beyond that day.

 

We have some cultural references for relationships beyond the wedding day, but most are negative, such as Kevin Spacey's character in American Beauty. That film in particular makes me sad about just the deadness and unsaid things in that fictional marriage.

 

As regards sex beyond the wedding day...there's not much really, articles in Cosmo about how to keep the passion alive.

 

I did talk with a married male friend once, 2 kids down the line he said that he felt his marriage was going down the tubes. I met him a few months later and asked how he was getting on and he'd bought some book about reviving his marriage and his sex life and that it had worked. The book suggested men woo their wives again, write love notes, show they care, buy flowers, all the little things they would have done at the beginning, but stop doing when married and he said it worked a charm, that he and the wife had fallen in love all over again.

 

I'm not saying by using that example that it is all the man's fault, more that men need sex in a marriage to feel emotionally connected, but perhaps women need to feel that that emotional, romantic connection is still there in order to keep their passion alive.

 

Maybe too...we all live too long now. There was a time where the majority of humans wouldn't live beyond 40, now, we are expected to make one relationship work for 40 years and maybe that's the exception rather than the rule.

[Hopeful30]

They have given me a few ideas,

 

and also distorted the image of what a man should be. Just because a man isn't 6'2, lean, intelligent, rich and with a big dick doesn't mean he is any less of a man. Average will do.

[Des]

Of course I have to agree with JS again. No, they are not the same.

 

Obviously in a literal, content-wise sense they are different.

 

Fortunately though, the other women in this thread understand the validity of the analogy and have addressed it as such.

 

Of all the things I've read through in this thread, this one kind of took the cake.

 

This is the same as saying "okay, they're not REALLY the same, but other women here have said they're similar."

 

...Okay? The comparison disproved that "validity", showing how little they both really have in common. The verdict is in - Romance novels for women are not similar enough to be the equivalent of men's porn, when it comes down to the facts.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Des

[Jersey Shortie]

Thanks Des, you took the thoughts out of my head!

 

What does that have to do with the comparison? The point of the analogy is simple - one of your main issues with porn is that it creates a fantasy world for men, one full of ideals that an "average Jill" cannot possibly expect to live up to. And most of the porn detractors that have somewhat agreed with you have restated this same thing. OP's question has plenty of merit in this regard, and has even cited his real life example of a romantic "ideal" driving his wife away.

 

Personally, my argument on this front would be the same as with porn - anyone who is not able to delineate fantasy from reality is probably unfit for a healthy relationship anyway - and when someone starts to "slip" into the fantasy world, they probably weren't happy with reality to begin with for whatever reason.

 

The reason fantasy is so successful is because people can't infact delineate from reality. It's why men get a boner over it when they view it. Because their head, on some level, buys into the situation. When you respond to something like porn, with such an over whelming positive rush/feeling/hormone when you orgasm, that is a BIG inforcer. Now we all logically understand the difference between fantasy and reality, however the reason porn is so succesful is because it infact does trick people into believing what is visually being seen.

 

 

Also, I did infact say that I recognize that romance novels are clearly a more enjoyed female event. Just as video games for men seem to be. However, due to the way men react to porn, the messages it conveys, the strong social ties and culture references that have become more mainstream, the fact that more likely young boys AND girls are getting their sexual cues from porn then they are romance novels, I do not think romance novels are comparable to porn at all. If you want to compare romance novels and fantasy to video games and fantasy, that’s valid. However, for the points I previously illustrated, points that you can’t debunk, I do not think the mediums are equal in comparison.

 

This is a recurring theme in your posts. Where are you getting this "data" that "men" - a term you use in a hilariously broad sense - are regularly asking their women to dress like women in porn? Female participants in this thread, have you often been asked to "dress like you are in porn"? Once again, I really think you overstate the importance that porn plays in a healthy relationship.

 

but again, this has nothing to do with OP's analogy. your issue with the content of porn (which is obviously your personal opinion) is completely unrelated to the point of the post.

 

Lets be honest, how often do you think men ask women to fulfill some porn fantasy, through clothes or a sexual act compared to how many women you think ask men to fulfill some romance novel fantasy through clothes or act? I think it’s a safe bet to say that it happens more where it’s a male request to do something more porn-like in the bedroom then romance novel like. Lets just look at how many people suggest a woman view porn with her man compared to how many people suggest a man read a romance novel with his woman.

 

And it has everything to do with the OP’s anaology. The op wants to compare porn to romance novels. Please show me what part of my post that I didn’t do that? What part was unrelated? None! I compared porn to romance novels. Easy Pessy.

 

 

Yes, relationships are never, ever ended because of a woman holding a man to an unattainable standard! women never do that!

 

If you truly believe this, then you are even more gender-biased than I realized.

 

Yes, women hold men to standards that are unfair sometimes too. You are right. However, we don't seem to get the glee that men do in making women expendale blow up toys that should be smacked around, called names, and subjected to all manner of degrading acts. Why is it that men enjoy seeing women treated like this? Do men enjoy seeing women brutalized in some manner?