sumdude Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 The essential equivalent to porn for men is the tawdry romance novel, TV show or movie for women. How have those fictional portrayals of men, love and sex affected your relationships?
xpaperxcutx Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 Well I for one, am not gullible enough to want to use romance novels as a template for the kind of relationships I want. Romance novels are a good read because they feed fantasies, but relationships are hardly about ' falling in love at first sight'. Based on my dating experiences, I have came across a lot of men who are either jaded or closed off from sharing about their emotions that I'm well aware I am almost dating a different species.
bayouboi Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 porn is a good site because they feed fantasies c wut i did thar?
torranceshipman Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 I've never read a romance novel. But I guess the hidden question might be, do we have unrealistic expectations? Well, I suppose my ideal man is talk, dark, handsome, a gentleman, who treats me like a princess, highly educated, very successful, a family guy who is a really nice, good hearted person. Took me a long time to find him but I wouldn't settle and now I have him and its great so guess it isn't too unreasonable
Jersey Shortie Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 The essential equivalent to porn for men is the tawdry romance novel, TV show or movie for women. How have those fictional portrayals of men, love and sex affected your relationships? Actually, tv shows and movies for men are what tv shows and movies are to women. Lets not pretend that men do not have any tv shows or movies that gear to their fantasy just as women do. To compare tv shows and movies for women to porn is to ignore the fact that men also have tv shows and movies for them. Secondly, While romance novels are a typically female enjoyed event, it's no where comparable to porn. If you want to compare romance novels to something lets compare it to video games for men. That's more realistic. Video games are more more typical of men. Video games have fantasy elements in it about members of the opposite sex. But 99% of the cases, a man isn't masturbating to a video game. Most women don't masturbate to a romance novel. It might be something they enjoy but they don't masturabe to it and the don't expect their men to dress up like men from it. And they don't even ask their men to read them with them to "get excited". On the other hand, men ask women to dress like like the women they see in porn or ask them to be more like the women they see in porn and they ask their partners to watch it with them. Romance novels also do not degrade men. Call them names. Mock them. Exploit them. Usually characters in romance novels are honorable men who do the right thing and save the day..and the likes of that. Romance novels are nothing compared to what porn is. Nothing. It's a completely unfair and baised comparison. As for how these romance novels have affected relationships. Well quite honestly, women don't ask men to be like some lame romance novel hero to the extent men ask women be more like the women in porn. while women might like to get flowers, they don't ask that their man read a stupid novel with them while she simpers the male figure in it. Women don't ask their men to act or be like a man in a novel. men do ask women to act or be like the women they see in porn. Women don't call men four letter names in romance novels. That's a regular accourance in porn. Women don't disinergrate men based on their age in romance novels. That is another thing that happens to women in porn.
Jersey Shortie Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 I never said porn eroded the soul or was evil. You ask me to open my mind but you are about as close minded as it comes. I am not surprised because most men are close minded. They rather defend their porn that the actual woman in their life. I am use to the same argument. Or they make it *seem* like they aren't using porn. Either way, it's worth defending and it's worth lying about. Open my mind? To be take advantage of and end up in a relationship where I love him and think he is sexy and he is always looking for the next new best visual option at his finger tips? So I can spend my life when a guy who makes me a joke? Where I am not as nearly as special to him as he is to me? So he can always lust for and pine for 18 year olds while he "settles" for being stuck with the same woman that clearly isn't as exciting as all the porn that is so worthwhile for most of you men to defend? I rather end of with some cats and dogs who I know at least won't treat me like I am a sexual commedity to be taken out and played with as often as he pleases and when I can't spread my legs the second he demands it will be taking out and playing with his other toys. You men don't have any respect or caring for women today. You don't care all the crazy messages we get sent. You don't care that we try really hard to have love, families, work hard, and still try to feel sexy. but none of it is ever good enough for the lot of you. Because what it comes down to, as many of you said that no matter what a girl does, you always turn back to the porn. That is what stands the test of time. Don't sit there and tell me to open up my mind when not many of you can do the same. You don't even care how degrading porn is to women in general. It's not YOU being used and tossed aside for the next person. It's women. so why should you care? women are worthless right? Just another pair of t&A around the corner to fantasize yourself into stupidity with.
Author sumdude Posted February 9, 2010 Author Posted February 9, 2010 JS I pretty much expected the response. The question is... where is the line between 'romance sex' and 'porn'. There's soft porn, sex scenes in a rated R movie, cartoon porn, porn literature (steamy romance novel to hard core Penthouse Forum), the you have various fetishes on and on. (Let's leave the sick stuff involving children etc out of this because that's just obvious.) So where's the line? Who decides which fantasy or real depiction of sex is evil porn and which is not? Seems to me you are insecure in your body or sex in general. You fear aging and losing something to someone younger someday. Your incredible resentment towards men is now blindingly clear from your last post. You would hate me without knowing me.
Jersey Shortie Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 Okay sumdude, you expected my response. Does that make it any less valid or that I don't have good points in there? I don't have the answer to what the "line" is. I never said I had it all figured out. Either do you men. Even though you like to pretend you do. What I do know is that this country is fat on more then jsut food. We excuse everything if it invovles sex and our *feeling* for it. Yes. I am insecure about my body. And yes, I fear getting older a big because I observe how men treat women and react based on women aging. I never lied that I didn't have insecurities. Does that make my opinion invalid? I have resentments but so does everyone here. Hate you? I don't even know you and there is no one I "hate".
Jersey Shortie Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 Another preconceived notion of yours that is neither healthy or beneficial to your overall happiness. Well, being navie and stupid and expecting the best from men wasn't beneficial to my happiness either. Come on Jersey, this is a really extreme example you provide. No one would be happy with that. That's just like saying - "The last guy I dated was a raging alcoholic - so if any new guy drinks ONE beer, he's out." "The last guy I dated was addicted to porn - so if any new guy watches porn at all - he's gone." I've dated women with these views... simply trivial and NOT my problem. A. I NEVER said I dated an addict. But truth be told, I think more men are addicted to porn then they care to admit to themselves. B. I never said it was your problem. You qoute my comments and ask for commentary and when I give it to you you back track and say "not my problem". Lastly, I am not a ridiculous poster. I think the reason so many men get up on me is because they see the truth in what I am saying.
Malenfant Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 The essential equivalent to porn for men is the tawdry romance novel, TV show or movie for women. How have those fictional portrayals of men, love and sex affected your relationships? i dont read romance novels, or watch romance themed TV or films. talk about boring. but to anyone who says romance novels arent like porn, they are. they are describing a fantasy, just from the woman's POV. just because they arent depicting the classic 'porn' style view from a mainly masculine perspective, that doesnt mean they arent describing sex. and lots of women read these books because they like to read about sex.
bayouboi Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 i dont read romance novels, or watch romance themed TV or films. talk about boring. but to anyone who says romance novels arent like porn, they are. they are describing a fantasy, just from the woman's POV. just because they arent depicting the classic 'porn' style view from a mainly masculine perspective, that doesnt mean they arent describing sex. and lots of women read these books because they like to read about sex. I think most healthy people realize this, but you'll always have the "it's only okay when I do it" crowd.
Malenfant Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 Lastly, I am not a ridiculous poster. I think the reason so many men get up on me is because they see the truth in what I am saying. i'm not a man but i have to say that i would 'get up on you' too sometimes for your sweeping generalisations about men. and thats not because i see the truth in what you're saying. its because i dont agree. and i'm a woman.
Jersey Shortie Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 I give you a hard time out of sheer frustration. Not only from you, but a handful of other women I have met in my journey. Well, your frustration is the only one of any merit. Their frustrations don't matter in the least. You're the better person and their feelings should be discounted. They are just women after all. Humans belong to the animal kingdom and have basic, sometimes instinctive behavior. So what! Sometimes all I want to do is eat french friends and ice cream. But I don't. I use self control. My own father had a hidden porn stash... my mother wasn't very excited about it but they stayed happily married until he died. My father also raised 2 children that weren't his... look at the big picture. Yes, I am well aware of how many men hide their porn like a beloved treasure item. Men that have women that love them, support them and take care of them. None of that matters in the least as long as the guy can keep his porn. I do so enjoy how now people want to define "porn" as healthy. There is nothing healthy about porn. Sex is healthy. Porn isn't.
Ms. Joolie Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 As a teenager I began reading novels that had sex scenes, I guess that classifies as a 'romance novel'. I don't know that I ever picked up a romance novel, as in the romance section. hmmm. I think it gave me my sex drive, actually. Because I sure didn't learn about sex from my parents. lol. Romance in novels/movies formed half my idea of relationships. The other part of it came from my Catholic upbringing. Needless to say, I've struggled with relationships, I've struggle with the idea of love, struggled with having real intimacy, struggled in my romantic relationships with men. Have NOT struggled with sex though. That was easy enough to learn. haha I don't believe I had the proper education in what love is, or about sex, or about relationships. I had to learn about those things independently, and as an adult. Today, I am happy with this learning process. .... I've learned about relationships from what was handed down to me, what I learned on my own, and through what I continue to learn. There are good sources to pick up from, and not-so-good sources. The romance that is depicted in novels and in movies was something that was shown me or handed to me. It was a not-so-good source. haha. I'm still discovering what it means to have a real relationship.
Ms. Joolie Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 The question is... where is the line between 'romance sex' and 'porn'. To me, they are both classified somewhere under 'sexuality'.
Left in a Lurch Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 JS You seem to have an anti-porn agenda and trivialize men into inherit bad and deny any differing opinion on every thread. If we believe what you say, you are destined to never be fulfilled by any man that masturbates or looks at porn because you take that as a personal shot at you and an indication that you can never please a man like that, and that will be a lonely road. Anyone that opposes, you claim that it proves they clearly are into porn like it should be a badge of shame. You have such a driving force of anti-porn, anti-male your posts are really pretty easy to dismiss as not very constructive. It sure seems like you are judging the entire male gender based on one experience with one person and that doesn't leave much hope for happiness or at the very least objectivity.
quankanne Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 how has my love of the romance genre affected my real-life relationships? And can romance novels – the genre as a whole – be considered "porn"? second question first*– while there *are* some of the more tawdry writers who insist on making the whole thing about ****ing, instead of the whole idea of seduction and romance and relationship, I honestly don't consider the genre pornographic. I'm not beating off to these books, I'm interested in the sweet, old-fashioned idea of love. Of good men fighting for the women they love and one or the other leave behind jaded ideas because that love makes them grow internally. In that sense, I'd liken romances to fairy tales – you know, where the prince comes for the girl, they fall in love and they live happily ever after. Again, this is the genre as a WHOLE, which includes those books that obviously force sex into the picture and make it the whole relationship. Which, IMO, is totally unrealistic ... nobody ****s that much, few women enjoy the actual deed of losing her virginity, much less has mind-blowing orgasms every damn time ... anyhow, on to the other question: How does it affect my relationships? I began reading romance novels (Harlequin) when I was 12 or 13, so my ideal man was older, was a bit more distant emotionally and had dark hair and light eyes. And was a man's man. First boyfriend at age 20 fit the bill. VERY emotionally distant, and I could never break through his guard. thankfully, as time went on, and the books' heroes were a little bit more in tune with their emotions, my ideal changed. And though he's a screaming redneck at times, my husband parallels those guys in the novels: Good guy, big heart and some issues that we've worked hard to conquor together. my biggest squawk, again, is the unrealistic portrayal of sex, because that isn't how real life works.
quankanne Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 What planet are you from? I don't know one man who would chose porn over a healthy relationship. Planet Reality. Men don't actually like sex, just the idea of it. And porn gives them the distance they need to whack their weenies without getting emotionally involved. And there's the added attraction of "readily available" hot young women who "want" them back. Or at least don't mind being sweated and spooed over by guys who want nothing more than to get their nut off.
quankanne Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 LOL, okay, I'm talking as a 40-something woman .... the only ONLY guy I can recall being so into sex was one from college, a Mexican guy who appreciated the female form and what he could do with it
Twenty-ten Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 This is a really interesting parallel you've drawn Sumdude I never thought of it that way but I think you are on to something here... To answer your question on how has romance in fiction affected my relationships if I am brutally honest, at one point in my life when I was much more naive and had much less experience it affected me deeply. I did draw up a lot of conclusions of what the male archetype was comprised of from what I saw in all the romantic fiction I consumed. I did however learn the hard way that men, REAL men, are not so like that. They have flaws not all guys are born to be romantics, and sometimes guys can be very selfish instead of thoughtful and consumed with thoughts of how he can impress his woman. I think that was the biggest deception of all. Even so, I have been balanced in how I view fiction vs reality but there are instances of where those lines crossed and merged and lead to destruction. It was painful because this caused some deep problems in my earlier relationships, but over time I learned to embrace men for how they really are not on what my mind dictates. Also I have to say that as I've overcome my own insecurities, this was a huge factor in the process of acceptance towards others. What planet are you from? I don't know one man who would chose porn over a healthy relationship. Planet Reality. Men don't actually like sex, just the idea of it. And porn gives them the distance they need to whack their weenies without getting emotionally involved. And there's the added attraction of "readily available" hot young women who "want" them back. Or at least don't mind being sweated and spooed over by guys who want nothing more than to get their nut off. Seriously!! Well said Quankanne.
SOLACEMENT Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 The essential equivalent to porn for men is the tawdry romance novel, TV show or movie for women. How have those fictional portrayals of men, love and sex affected your relationships? I personally don't do much romence books anymore ...but I did when I was younger. Being that most of my education when it comes to a what a "normal" relationship is was from movies,books, online,etc.I would say it has and continue to have an effect on my relationships. Since I can say I am not the "norm" when it comes to my views on relationships. (I don't believe in normal : hence the quotes) Ok, the line between porn and (romance novels,movies,penthouse forum).I would say the line depends on the person(male/female).Because some may need porn but a book may be just as good.Like I said for both male and female.
EnglishMuffin Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 Here is my thought as a young woman who read romance novel excessively for a couple of years (2007-2008). Just to explain my perspective however, my undergraduate education mostly involved reading theoretical texts, and my graduate research is in video games/new media... To make it short, reading romance did and did not affect my relationship. I picked up reading romance while looking for some easy read for over 12 hours flights, and I picked up a romance for a change after attempting to read a Margaret Atwood novel in a confined space was a bit too intense. Not sure exactly how it happened, since I used to look down at romance novel for many years. And somehow I got hooked up. As an avid reader, I read a lot. And if you are an average critical reader, you get to figure out the formula in a few months of time. And the truth is, there aren't many new, original stories in the world of literature, film, and other narrative media. After a few months, you have your favourite authors whose prose style/stories you prefer, and you sometimes pick up new authors other romance readers rave about. In this sense, there is no difference between reading a romance and reading any popular fiction. Now back to how reading a romance affected my relationship? My boyfriend of the time (now ex) freaked out. He did not feel like he could meet the expectations I must have acquired by reading romance novels. He did not feel masculine enough, romantic enough, and not worthy enough to keep the competition with a fictional hero. And yes, he was a very insecure boy despite of his good looks and intelligence. As for me, besides the same pleasure of reading a good story and well-developed characters (there are some excellent ones beyond the majority of cookie cutters), it was more or less about how I relate to the main characters, and how much I found myself unromantic. Oddly enough, I related more to the male character whom I can wholeheartedly relate, because he is the first born as I am and has a lot of responsibilities as I am and is falling in love beyond his controls. Naturally, I felt strong for the first daughter female lead too. I guess I am a sucker in this type of story no matter what genre it is. And those romance characters definitely put me in shame for my terribly practical and unromantic nature. And I did try to make up for it. Ironically, my ex had tons of romantic ideas about how a relationship/courtship is supposed to be, which in fact led to the demise of our relationship because he couldn't handle the downs and wanted more ups, and I couldn't keep up with his expectations. And I guess, perhaps some women and men do have romantic expectations that my ex boyfriend did. I guess I could see that happening when a romance narrative (be it a novel, a film, anything really) is read without an objective scrutiny. And believe or not, a lot of romance readers are quite critical of unrealistic romantic cliches. We laugh on the impossible plot devices: a virgin having a multiple orgasms, a promiscuous rake free of STDs and suddenly turns into a faithful husband after a fatal meeting with the heroine, some paranomal heroes are in fact psychotic stalkers who need therapy asap, etc. And I do think anyone who has had a healthy relationship experience should be able to see through them. My current boyfriend just laugh on cliche proses in romance. It does not bother him as it did my ex. As for a comparison to softcore porn, romances by contemporary authors do have more sexy scenes than before, barely keeping away from the "romantica" which refers to the mix of romance and erotica. However I also have to mention that many readers are not fond of gratuitous sex scenes that just puts a stop to the progress of the dramatic narrative. Their argument is that if they want sex, they can go read erotica, not romance. To video games, I think another poster was trying to compare them as a cultural consumption, but in terms of the nature of media, both romance novel and video game operate on the same basis of having a narrative. Recent games are borrowing more cinematic elements from film to develop compelling narratives, even Hideo Kojima of Metal Gear Solid franchise said that in the interview. As a storytelling media, romance novels solely focus on romance and HEA (Happily Ever After) while games may have a different type of narrative. A game can be terribly romantic too...anyone who played FF6 would know what I mean. Or even the latest Prince of Persia.
greatgirlfriend Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 I used to read romance novels (not really anymore) and the problem I had with them is how simplified they make life. For instance they say that if a woman likes a man they'll get together, that they'll meet and marry 6 months, etc. Unrealistic.
EnglishMuffin Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 I used to read romance novels (not really anymore) and the problem I had with them is how simplified they make life. For instance they say that if a woman likes a man they'll get together, that they'll meet and marry 6 months, etc. Unrealistic. Yep. Many readers do notice the absence of economy, tensions and stresses from cohabitation (unless it is a forced cohabitation plot to start a romance), every little bit of things that would start a real argument between two persons. But then no one wants to read about the stressful factors while reading a romance/fantasy. Same goes with action adventure/SF. We want to read about the unseen, undiscovered future, not so much on our hero/in ranting so much about his/her divorced partner on a different planet unless the other person is another top-notch pilot or something and shows up to help the hero/in and somehow the whole romance gets reconciled (just think of the latest Indiana Jones!).
OnlyJake Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 The essential equivalent to porn for men is the tawdry romance novel, TV show or movie for women. How have those fictional portrayals of men, love and sex affected your relationships? I have to say that I really disagree with your claim that romance novels are to women what porn is to men; that said, I occasionally read romance novels. They don't at all affect my relationships with men; mostly when I read them I'm completely disgusted with seemingly confident, perfect, rich, talented, emotionally stable men bending over backwards to chase and please the most horrendously bitchy, obnoxious, needy, clingy, insecure, flawed and "wounded" women who can't get over their past (a cheating bf; an absent father; narcissistic mother; etc. - get over it already, the only thing that distinguishes these women from EVERYONE else is their inability to move on ).
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