A Recurring Theme

[5105571]

Well, it's happened again. The usual thing that happens with girls I date is that everything seems to be going okay, and after a few dates, they lose interest. That's the general story arc for my relationships with women. For example the most recent one:

 

I met a girl online, we went out a few times, and everything seemed great. In fact, our last date on last Saturday went fairly well with kissing, touching, holding onto each other while walking, etc.

 

She called me the next day on a Sunday, chatted. On Wednesday, I texted "call me later," and got no response. She called me 10 hours later like nothing happened and we set a potential date for the following Saturday (yesterday). I called that Friday (two days ago) to iron out the details, and we talked for an hour. My phone dropped the call, I called back; no answer, then left a message "call me when you figure out your plans for Saturday." It's now Sunday and I've not heard from her. I left the ball in her court and she knows how to contact me, so I'm done initiating contact.

 

I've concluded she's either playing games, not interested, is rude, or just socially inept/forgetful. No matter the case, I'm no longer interested, unless she comes up with a sincere apology, but I think I've heard the last of her.

 

The problem is that this type of thing happens to me often with women. We both express interest (long phone conversations, going out frequently) and then suddenly they've had enough of whatever I'm doing. I'm not smothering, I give them space and let them do their thing. However, I call them about as often you'd call a good friend (3-5 a week, maybe even less depending on how busy and receptive they are), and I'll back off if they don't answer, or never seem to have time for me.

 

The biggest problems I've got are I'm a bit unemotional so it's hard to judge whether I'm interested, so I think I make up for that by initiating contact, and keeping the ball rolling. Secondly, I'm a bit passive so I don't really inject myself into their lives, and I don't know if I should be doing that. For instance, if she's going to a party on a certain night, do I ask if I can tag along or do I back off?

 

Two questions: 1. Any guesses why these women (particularly this one) keep doing this? 2. Am I doing something to cause this, or am I attracted to the wrong kind or something?

 

These failures start to add up and it's turning into an exercise of wasting time and money for nothing. I might as well go bang my head against a wall or something.

[St. Nick]

So do you even have sex with these women?

 

Try concentrating on sex and less conversations on the phone. I hate long conversations on the phone. I'll talk for 10 minutes tops before shutting it down. If she really wants to talk then it's face to face. Otherwise no chit-chatting.

 

ADVICE: Don't call women on the phone and have long convos with em. Set up a date, say a few things, then end the phone convo. See if you can have sex by the second date. If she's waiting longer than that then stop trying to get with her. Otherwise you'll be stuck in the friend or pussywhipped boyfriend zone.

 

Hope this helps.

[5105571]

Not usually. Sometimes no sex or anything close to it. Sometimes pretty much everything but sex. Realize, I'm into more than just sex. I'd feel shallow about kicking someone to the curb if they don't give it up by the second date. I've had a couple of one-night-stands and that's not my thing. That approach to dating may work for you but it's just not my style. At the same time, I won't be anybody's doormat either.

 

However, I may take your advice about shortening up the conversations, see where that leads. I could also try to be a little more sexual with the interactions just to put some extra sexual tension in the dates. Thanks for your advice; I feel like I need to change something, and that might help.

 

Anyone else have any ideas or suggestions?

Edited February 7, 2010 by 5105571

[meerkat stew]

Yes, do consider shortening conversations. Cut all contact between dates to a bare minimum, only call them to ask them out. Text only if you have the most hilarious thing in the world that will make her laugh and get her hot in 140 characters, no texts otherwise.

 

When you are with them, of course don't just paw on and proposition them, but if you find them sexually attractive, and want to eventually have sex with them, DO let them know it very directly with your voice, your eyes, your touch, and being very flirty. More than any compliment or sincere, kind attitude in a man they have recently met, women IME respond to a sexually and emotionally charged atmosphere from a man who is a bit of a mystery between dates. Those long phone convos kill the mystery.

[silverfish]

Yes, do consider shortening conversations. Cut all contact between dates to a bare minimum, only call them to ask them out. Text only if you have the most hilarious thing in the world that will make her laugh and get her hot in 140 characters, no texts otherwise.

 

When you are with them, of course don't just paw on and proposition them, but if you find them sexually attractive, and want to eventually have sex with them, DO let them know it very directly with your voice, your eyes, your touch, and being very flirty. More than any compliment or sincere, kind attitude in a man they have recently met, women IME respond to a sexually and emotionally charged atmosphere from a man who is a bit of a mystery between dates. Those long phone convos kill the mystery.

 

I agree with the phone conversations too. 3-5 times a week is a lot, and I don't have any friends I talk to on the phone that much, or anyone for that matter unless something is up.

 

If it is happening after a bit of physical contact could it be something as simple as bad breath or kissing technique? I wouldn't advise asking to go along to a party she's going to either, she would ask if she wants you to go

[5105571]

thanks for the pointers guys.

 

Maybe I just bored her with that last conversation, and that put the final nail in the coffin. Like I said, I'm not very expressive and emotional, so maybe I should kick it up a notch as far as charging the whole experience with some sexual energy, and cutting out the chit-chat.

 

You're probably right about the frequency of calling. I only call my closest friends that often. When would be a good amount then per week? 1-2?

 

I'm seeing a pattern here, and I think I might be coming off as clingy in an attempt to show that I'm interested.

 

I don't think it had anything to do with the physical contact, otherwise she wouldn't have called me the next day, or a few days after that, or answered the phone on Friday.

 

Supposing she does get back to me (I highly doubt it), do I pretend nothing happened and try to approach this situation with this new strategy? Do I find out what's up and why she didn't call? Or, do I just call this one a loss, ignore her, and move on?

[meerkat stew]

Call to ask out only until an exclusive relationship is in place, preferably at her request.

 

If she does call back, just run with it however you like.

 

Fact is, we can suggest pointers forever, people like what they like, and changing that estimation on their part is usually a very gradual process that technique can help some, but won't change a person's basic attraction alignment towards another person, not rapidly anyway.

 

When they are in love with you, you can fart in the phone and they think it's cute. When they aren't attracted, you can do everything right and the result you want won't come.

 

I have a hunch, OP, that you are focusing on one single woman at a time. Try to cultivate several options at once, 3-5. As one flakes or is disinterested, add another to the mix. This will keep you sane, and free from worry about many early dating issues. Fact is 80% of the single people you meet today are either bad apples or incompatible. Eventually, by taking a large numbers approach, you will end up with a quality prospect who sticks. Best wishes.

[silverfish]

thanks for the pointers guys.

 

Maybe I just bored her with that last conversation, and that put the final nail in the coffin. Like I said, I'm not very expressive and emotional, so maybe I should kick it up a notch as far as charging the whole experience with some sexual energy, and cutting out the chit-chat.

 

You're probably right about the frequency of calling. I only call my closest friends that often. When would be a good amount then per week? 1-2?

 

I'm seeing a pattern here, and I think I might be coming off as clingy in an attempt to show that I'm interested.

 

I don't think it had anything to do with the physical contact, otherwise she wouldn't have called me the next day, or a few days after that, or answered the phone on Friday.

 

Supposing she does get back to me (I highly doubt it), do I pretend nothing happened and try to approach this situation with this new strategy? Do I find out what's up and why she didn't call? Or, do I just call this one a loss, ignore her, and move on?

 

I think it might come across as clingy to some women if you call that often. I don't think you should look at it like 'how many times a week is too much / too little', more that you need to gauge how much is appropriate from her actions as well.

 

If she has stopped contacting you altogether, then I would guess that the neediness put her off. Also, you say you aren't very emotional, what were these conversations about?

[5105571]

Conversations were about a lot of different things, mostly "getting to know you" type stuff. Never completely serious stuff. Last one was about her plans for the weekend; what we could potentially do on Saturday; some strange person calling her several times; people who name their kids stupid names; she was telling me about how she used to go to church and but doesn't anymore (a plus for me); how she was doing with her work related injury (hurt her shoulder). Stuff like that.

 

I've never gotten the sense that I've ever weirded anyone out or that things have taken an uncomfortable turn in any of the instances when it goes bad like this one has.

[silverfish]

Conversations were about a lot of different things, mostly "getting to know you" type stuff. Never completely serious stuff. Last one was about her plans for the weekend; what we could potentially do on Saturday; some strange person calling her several times; people who name their kids stupid names; she was telling me about how she used to go to church and but doesn't anymore (a plus for me); how she was doing with her work related injury (hurt her shoulder). Stuff like that.

 

I've never gotten the sense that I've ever weirded anyone out or that things have taken an uncomfortable turn in any of the instances when it goes bad like this one has.

 

Not saying you weirded her out, but maybe just 'bugged' her a little bit? I hate talking on the phone too much, to whoever it is. I don't think anyone would notice though, as I am polite and almost over compensate by keeping the convo going, until a respectable period of time has elapsed and I can make my excuses (normally fake ones) to end it.

 

Most of the time though, I just don't answer the phone at all if I don't feel like talking. Its hardly ever convenient for me to have a one hour phone conversation with someone at the moment they call, unless we've agreed a time or its something serious.

 

Can you remember who normally ended these conversations and what was the reason?

[boogieboy]

I've never gotten the sense that I've ever weirded anyone out or that things have taken an uncomfortable turn in any of the instances when it goes bad like this one has.

 

You probably dont know how to read women when you talk to them over the phone, which might be why youre not picking up on them losing interest.

 

Only call them to make the date. 10 minutes tops. Let them call you once youve gone out a few times, and let them call you.

 

3-5 times a week while dating? Youre smothering them.

[meerkat stew]

Its hardly ever convenient for me to have a one hour phone conversation with someone at the moment they call, unless we've agreed a time or its something serious.

 

The above seems to encapsulate and remedy most of the dating problems posted about on this board where overheating a new relationship is concerned. Could it be this simple?

[calizaggy]

I see what the OP is going through..

 

Women can be so incredibly flaky, that sometimes there is no right answer..

 

I completely over called/contacted one girl who ended up flaking on a date.. I told her off and within a month she wanted to get married and have kids. Her flakiness ended. She said at the beginning she was unsure/scared etc.

 

Just do whatever you feel like.. If it is meant to be she will come around.

[kiss_andmakeup]

If I had just started dating a guy and he was calling me several times per week *just* to talk (as opposed to calling to set up date arrangements) I would think he was clingy and needy. I don't even talk to my friends on the phone that much.

[5105571]

@silverfish:

I only had two real long conversations with her, one of which she ended because she had to work at 9 and it was 4 in the morning. The other, my phone dropped the call and I never heard from her again. The other ones were about 50-50 as far as who ended it. The biggest thing for me is if there was too much contact, why would she call me back? She probably called me more than I called her. Although it was often at my request, she was usually the one to return a call or responded to a text with a phone call. If this is "clingy" why on earth would she get back to me or even pick-up for that matter?

 

@Kiss_andmakeup, I wouldn't call just to talk, it was always to make plans to go out, often turning into longer conversations. Nonetheless, I suppose contacting them is the root of many of my problems. I think I may be so worried that they will not think I'm interested or that their interest will fade, that I over-do-it on the phone conversations and contacting.

 

I always thought that this volume of contact was reasonable if they seemed to be receptive, and they almost always are at first. I should probably tone it down then.

 

This is amplified by the fact that this has happened so many times in the past that I probably start to go into panic mode when they don't return my call.

 

I guess I just have to change things up and just play the game, because my instincts are obviously not doing me much good.

Edited February 8, 2010 by 5105571

[boogieboy]

This is amplified by the fact that this has happened so many times in the past that I probably start to go into panic mode the first time she doesn't return my call.

 

The next time one of them doesnt return your call, you forget about her.

[bac]

The best way to attach women is having great sex with them.

[5105571]

@calizaggy, I completely agree with your points. To me, girls are a complete enigma as far as all this goes. There is this incredible flakiness that chicks have, where they seem to be on board with everything, i.e. answering calls, returning calls, showing complete interest including physical, and in an instant you've completely lost them. It's like they would rather die then tell you there is a problem with anything.

 

However, doing what I feel like obviously doesn't work and just adds to my frustration, and I don't believe in "meant to be;" life is what you make of it. Chance only takes you so far, and after that it comes down to the individual's actions.

Edited February 8, 2010 by 5105571

[silverfish]

@silverfish:

I only had two real long conversations with her, one of which she ended because she had to work at 9 and it was 4 in the morning. The other, my phone dropped the call and I never heard from her again. The other ones were about 50-50 as far as who ended it. The biggest thing for me is if there was too much contact, why would she call me back? She probably called me more than I called her. Although it was often at my request, she was usually the one to return a call or responded to a text with a phone call. If this is "clingy" why on earth would she get back to me or even pick-up for that matter?

 

@Kiss_andmakeup, I wouldn't call just to talk, it was always to make plans to go out, often turning into longer conversations. Nonetheless, I suppose contacting them is the root of many of my problems. I think I may be so worried that they will not think I'm interested or that their interest will fade, that I over-do-it on the phone conversations and contacting.

 

I always thought that this volume of contact was reasonable if they seemed to be receptive, and they almost always are at first. I should probably tone it down then.

 

This is amplified by the fact that this has happened so many times in the past that I probably start to go into panic mode when they don't return my call.

 

I guess I just have to change things up and just play the game, because my instincts are obviously not doing me much good.

 

 

She's not getting back to you any more though, so I think it is the problem. Maybe the time you talked til 4am led to her feeling like crap the next day at work, and formed a pretty major negative association with you in her mind. I'm not saying it wasn't her choice, because it seems like it was.

 

I have a friend who I used to go out with fairly often, where a night out would frequently end at 3 or 4am, and it just became too much like hard work in the end. We don't got out more than once or twice a year now, and I clear my diary for a day or two afterwards. Her calls were frequently ignored as well by me.

 

When its early days you don't always want to point out someones faults to them. It doesn't usually go down to well, and many people advise that its a 'red flag' for women to try and do this to a man, so maybe thats why she just cut the contact.

[silverfish]

The above seems to encapsulate and remedy most of the dating problems posted about on this board where overheating a new relationship is concerned. Could it be this simple?

 

I hope so! Either that or its just me, and I'm an antisocial misfit

[calizaggy]

510...

 

For example, you are stressing about how many times to call a woman.. For every woman it is different..

 

As you read one woman calls a guy needy who calls 3 times a week to talk.. However, if Brad Pittt was calling her, would he be viewed as needy? Some women have walls, and some are open.. I have found I am a better match with South American women as men are more of a priority for them. Especially after sex they typically view us as a couple, and expect lots of daily contact..It As opposed to dating some "careerist" who views contact from a lover as "needy". Then not enough contact means you do not like them.. It is a no win..

 

With some women, nothing you do will work. You will wonder what you said, wonder if you called too much,not enough, are too aloof, not aloof enough, too fast, too slow, etc..It seems hopeless,and I have been there..

 

I really can only have a relationship ifn there is lots of contact.. Does that make me needy? if so, I do not care. Many women love the attention and fall in love with guys like this.. Some women with walls will not fall in love no matter what you do.