Kcruiser Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 Ive been reading posts on here for a while. Ive been dating a separated man for 3 months. He has been separated for the same amount of time. We were friends first and then he told me how he felt about me and how unhappy he was in his relationship. He left his wife the next day and we've been seeing each other ever since. Because he doesnt want to have a messy divorce and because of their child he is trying to make it "work" with her. She found our phone records so she knows about me, however he has told her that we stopped seeing each other because he is trying to make it "work". which is not true. He tells me he doesnt want her to know about us because he doesnt want her to hate me and him. if things work out with us we will have to deal with her forever and we both want it peaceful. Ive been very supportive of this but i hate being a secret. I hate that he tells me he wants to be with me but can go and spend time with her. He tells me how awful it is but its something he has to do right now. He understands if I cant stick around for this and that he hopes that when its all over we can be together. He thinks life is too short for me to wait for him and that he wouldnt be that selfish to ask me to do that. He then says well ya obviously i want you to wait for me but i cant ask that of you. We tried to stop talking a couple times but we both gave in and contacted each other. When im with him its great, but when we are apart i get sad. He moved out of the home when they separated but because of his child he is still over there all the time, cooking dinner for them etc. I am totally supportive of him and his son and yes he needs to come first but its the fact that his wife and him are still "trying" to work it out. Who has been in this situation? dating a separated man who you are crazy about but the timing is wrong..and what did you do. He tells me im not the other woman but i feel like i am, and i told him thats how he has made me feel. He felt very badly about that and that he cares about me and always wants to be with me but he cant give me everything i want and diserve right now. We both cant wait for the day when he can... should i wait around for that day??
carhill Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 (edited) Here's my take as a separated man... You say he's living separately. Cool. Has he made dinner for you at his place? You say he sometime says he's 'trying to make it work'. I presume by that you mean his marriage? OK, that's admirable. I recommend MC. Part of 'working on it' is accepting that a relationship with you is inappropriate. Has he shared this with you? Here's my opinion. Unless he demonstrates clear actions to move towards a divorce, which would include separate domiciles, legal separation and/or divorce actions and child custody arrangements, he's having an affair and using the phraseology of being 'separated' to effect that affair. TBH, my opinion wouldn't be as strong if he had met you after he was separated and living separately. Comparatively, the women I date know I'm separated, have seen pictures of my stbx's new home (which I fixed up quite nicely for her) and can see my divorce papers upon request and know when the divorce will be final. I've been living separately for about one year now. I had an EA while I was married. I know the differences. My advice to you would be to support your friend's (he was a friend prior to romance, you said) commitment to work on his marriage and refrain from any contact which would subvert or otherwise compromise that effort. Set a boundary that his M is his priority. If this means NC, OK. If this boundary suddenly causes him to change his mind about 'working on it', then tell him you'll be happy to date him once he is divorced. Say that sincerely because you do care about him, but also because you value yourself and your emotional health. You'll get other opinions. Hopefully you can find a path which is healthy for you. Edited February 7, 2010 by carhill
fooled once Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 Ive been reading posts on here for a while. Ive been dating a separated man for 3 months. He has been separated for the same amount of time. We were friends first and then he told me how he felt about me and how unhappy he was in his relationship. He left his wife the next day and we've been seeing each other ever since. Because he doesnt want to have a messy divorce and because of their child he is trying to make it "work" with her. She found our phone records so she knows about me, however he has told her that we stopped seeing each other because he is trying to make it "work". which is not true. He tells me he doesnt want her to know about us because he doesnt want her to hate me and him. if things work out with us we will have to deal with her forever and we both want it peaceful. Ive been very supportive of this but i hate being a secret. I hate that he tells me he wants to be with me but can go and spend time with her. He tells me how awful it is but its something he has to do right now. He understands if I cant stick around for this and that he hopes that when its all over we can be together. He thinks life is too short for me to wait for him and that he wouldnt be that selfish to ask me to do that. He then says well ya obviously i want you to wait for me but i cant ask that of you. We tried to stop talking a couple times but we both gave in and contacted each other. When im with him its great, but when we are apart i get sad. He moved out of the home when they separated but because of his child he is still over there all the time, cooking dinner for them etc. I am totally supportive of him and his son and yes he needs to come first but its the fact that his wife and him are still "trying" to work it out. Who has been in this situation? dating a separated man who you are crazy about but the timing is wrong..and what did you do. He tells me im not the other woman but i feel like i am, and i told him thats how he has made me feel. He felt very badly about that and that he cares about me and always wants to be with me but he cant give me everything i want and diserve right now. We both cant wait for the day when he can... should i wait around for that day?? My thoughts, he is LYING to you and you are buying it all. How about you tell him to look you up after he is divorced? He is not separated if he is there all the time and telling his wife he wants to work it out. He has lied to his wife and said you two aren't seeing each other. You are nothing more than the OW/a mistress. Don't expect things to change - he has the best of both worlds. Many men get divorced and STILL have their children in their lives. He is feeding you a bunch of bull and you are buying it. How about you open your eyes and see that he is lying to you? How about you step back, tell him to work on his marriage and if he ever decides to truly leave the marriage, to look you up and see if you are available? If not, you are in for a lot of sadness, just like you are feeling now.
norajane Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 should i wait around for that day?? Absolutely not. - You don't know when or even IF that day will ever come. - He's always at home and trying to "work it out" with his wife. That means they are nowhere near getting divorced. They may even be having sex - often, working it out includes working it out in the bedroom. - He's lying to his wife about you. You have no reason to trust that he is not lying to you about his wife and his marriage. - You are unhappy NOW. Do you really think you'll be any happier waiting and watching as he tries to work it out with his wife? How much unhappiness are you wiling to accept in your life with absolutely no guarantee that he will ever divorce? - He has told you that this is all he can give you - unhappiness. Believe him. - Life - and other men you could maybe be happy with - are passing you by and will continue to pass you by as you "wait" and are miserable.
carhill Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 - Life - and other men you could maybe be happy with - are passing you by and will continue to pass you by as you "wait" and are miserable. Yes, though reversing the genders, retrospectively, I found this to be true as an OM. Many years wasted, relationship-wise. Years which are gone forever. OP, whatever you decide, think it through.
jj33 Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 Hes lacking in integrity. Lets translate shall we? Ive been dating a separated man for 3 months. He has been separated for the same amount of time. We were friends first and then he told me how he felt about me and how unhappy he was in his relationship. He left his wife the next day and we've been seeing each other ever since. Isnt that amazing timing? Either he told you because he knew he was leaving the next day or he told you hed left because he knew that was the key to getting you to see him. Because he doesnt want to have a messy divorce and because of their child he is trying to make it "work" with her. Lovely so hes gaslighting her making her think he is trying to save the marriage while he is seeing you... that is really bad. Hes being a cake eater whether he is separated or not. Totally lacking in integrity. More likely, he is hedging his bets. Letting you both "show" him which path he should take if in fact he is actually separated. She found our phone records so she knows about me, however he has told her that we stopped seeing each other because he is trying to make it "work". which is not true. Make what work? His ability to be with both of you? He tells me he doesnt want her to know about us because he doesnt want her to hate me and him. if things work out with us we will have to deal with her forever and we both want it peaceful. Yeah and she is going to love you both for having lied to her and strung her along when the most important thing in her life (her marriage) short of her kids was hanging in the balance. Hes a liar and a bad one at that. Its one thing to say I want to lay low while we negotiate our divorce settlement, I dont want to throw this in her face - but that is much different than I am telling her i am working on the marriage. Ive been very supportive of this but i hate being a secret. I hate that he tells me he wants to be with me but can go and spend time with her. He tells me how awful it is but its something he has to do right now. He understands if I cant stick around for this and that he hopes that when its all over we can be together. He thinks life is too short for me to wait for him and that he wouldnt be that selfish to ask me to do that. He then says well ya obviously i want you to wait for me but i cant ask that of you. Hes telling you hes not free BELIEVE HIM. We tried to stop talking a couple times but we both gave in and contacted each other. When im with him its great, but when we are apart i get sad. He moved out of the home when they separated but because of his child he is still over there all the time, cooking dinner for them etc. I am totally supportive of him and his son and yes he needs to come first but its the fact that his wife and him are still "trying" to work it out. Who has been in this situation? dating a separated man who you are crazy about but the timing is wrong..and what did you do. He tells me im not the other woman but i feel like i am, and i told him thats how he has made me feel. He felt very badly about that and that he cares about me and always wants to be with me but he cant give me everything i want and diserve right now. We both cant wait for the day when he can... should i wait around for that day?? Honey you are the OW. He is not over his marriage. Even if he is not intentionally lying to you both and stringing you both along for his convenience while he figures out what he wants, you are still the second string. Run like the wind. I know its difficult sorry you are going through this.
hopesndreams Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 Hes lacking in integrity. Lets translate shall we? Honey you are the OW. He is not over his marriage. Even if he is not intentionally lying to you both and stringing you both along for his convenience while he figures out what he wants, you are still the second string. Run like the wind. I know its difficult sorry you are going through this. You're being used. Show him your confidence and self-esteem and follow the advice given. It might attract him to you, otherwise, keep expecting more of the same for as long as he wants to drag it out. He has 2 women on the go now, be next to impossible for him to give that up.
pete3447 Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 He left his wife the day after he told you how he felt. He moved out of his home. It's only been 3 months, he is trying to figure things out. I'm sure he loves you but D (especially with a child) is a scary thing and no body knows how to approach it. If you you trust him and he's worth it, live from day to day for a little while. Truly focus on enjoying the time you have with him for what it is and show him that you trust him. Remind him and yourself everyday why you both want to be together. Live and focus on the relationship you have with him, not the one he is trying to figure out if he should have left or not. If it doesn't work out then you still had the quality time with him and you know that he will truly miss you and that time. If it does work out your relationship will be even stronger because you trusted him to do it his way. NC is a control tool used to give yourself emotional strength with getting over someone or to punish the other person. You have neither here. He is trying to figure out how to do this and if he wants to - help him decide by being the better solution.
Author Kcruiser Posted February 7, 2010 Author Posted February 7, 2010 Thanks guys. I have a lot of thinking to do. He is on his way over to talk because he knows im struggling with this. Pete, i appreciate your comments. He would be saying the same thing. He is concerned with how im feeling and tries to tell me that if i only knew how much it is killing him too. But is very understanding and wants me to do whats best for me. He just wants me to be happy. And i think thats the biggest struggle because with him im happy. I do not believe he is a bad guy. He is stuggling with his divorce, feels guilty and many other emotions. So do i take it day by day like Pete says and enjoy the time i do have with him and trust the fact that he's telling me the truth or do I tell him i will support him as a friend and to contact me when he has filed for divorce. We have discussed both options together. Regardless we will see each other a couples times a week because we play on the same rec volleyball team. Thanks for all of your responses i have taken each one into consideration, and i need to think things through and do whats best for me. Right now i just dont know what that is.
White Flower Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 Hes lacking in integrity. Lets translate shall we? Honey you are the OW. He is not over his marriage. Even if he is not intentionally lying to you both and stringing you both along for his convenience while he figures out what he wants, you are still the second string. Run like the wind. I know its difficult sorry you are going through this. Great post JJ! I see it too.
jj33 Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 He may not be a bad guy but look at how he is dealing with conflict. He is lying to his wife. He cant face telling her its over and he cant face telling her he is dating. The latter is understandable, you arent the cause of the separation. But the former (telling his W he is open to working on the marriage) is a BIG red flag. For your own sanity, stay away until his W knows that he is NOT working on his marriage. Even if you have to keep it quiet during the divorce negotiations you have to protect yourselfr. Otherwise you are willingly being the OW.
pete3447 Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 (edited) One last thought. Figure out what you really want before you figure out how to get there. If you go NC with him he will just compensate for the pain of you not being there by shifting his energy and get those things from his xW. NC will get you your self-esteem and pride but you will lose him and need to move on. You will pretty much be making that decision for him - plus you see him a couple of times a week to remind you, he will get stronger but NC will end up being harder for you than him. If you make yourself the better solution and just chill about the future at least for a little while then he makes the best decision based on what makes him happiest. Odds are if remove the stress from your relationship with him and you focus on being happy with him, you are gonna win that battle hands down - he is "working" on his marriage - he doesn't have to "work" with you and he. my $.02 anyway Edited February 7, 2010 by pete3447
Woman In Blue Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 Cruiser, ANY man that will bold-faced lie to his wife and give her hope that there's the possibility of a reconciliation for them - and even go through the farce of marriage counseling while secretly dating another woman - is a worthless snake. I couldn't respect anyone that low. I GET that he's conflicted. I GET that he's feeling guilty. But that doesn't give him the right to go to such great lengths to set his wife up for such a fall. He should be ashamed of himself for such low-rent behavior.
pete3447 Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 (edited) BB, I'll defer to your experience here . It seems like you are much closer to this than I am. I've have been on the receiving side of NC. It hurts so bad it will break you and you will try to compensate, turn the pain into a different emotion or let go no matter how much you love the person doing it. The more you love them, the more you have to. I'm just basing my opinion on where I have been and what I would do in his shoes. The other thing is he is only at 3 months - he is stuck between love and responsibility - he has the right to be confused as hell and have no idea what he is doing. He is probably a huge mess and wouldn't even be rational yet. btw, thanks for all your kind words on my previous posts. Edited February 8, 2010 by pete3447
fooled once Posted February 8, 2010 Posted February 8, 2010 Thanks guys. I have a lot of thinking to do. He is on his way over to talk because he knows im struggling with this. Pete, i appreciate your comments. He would be saying the same thing. He is concerned with how im feeling and tries to tell me that if i only knew how much it is killing him too. But is very understanding and wants me to do whats best for me. He just wants me to be happy. And i think thats the biggest struggle because with him im happy. I do not believe he is a bad guy. He is stuggling with his divorce, feels guilty and many other emotions. So do i take it day by day like Pete says and enjoy the time i do have with him and trust the fact that he's telling me the truth or do I tell him i will support him as a friend and to contact me when he has filed for divorce. We have discussed both options together. Regardless we will see each other a couples times a week because we play on the same rec volleyball team. Thanks for all of your responses i have taken each one into consideration, and i need to think things through and do whats best for me. Right now i just dont know what that is. Seriously? You believe this crock? If he is so concerned about you, he wouldn't be asking you to lay low. If he is so concerned about you, he wouldn't be LYING to his wife and stringing her along with "making it work". If he was so concerned about you, he would tell you to move on with your life and not wait around for him. You have been 'seeing' him 3 months. You really think he is going to throw away a marriage over a girl he has known 3 months? And he had the perfect opportunity to come clean to his wife, yet he chose not to. That should show you right there how much you really mean to him. It was the perfect time for him to be HONEST (I guess that is a foreign concept to him) with his wife so he could be with you. But he chose to continue to lie. Watch his ACTIONS, not his words. His actions are with his wife, not you.
fooled once Posted February 8, 2010 Posted February 8, 2010 Pete......I respectfully disagree with you here. The reasons why....it's highly unlikely that she can just chill and just be happy with what she has with him, if she could do that, she wouldn't be here asking for advice. Also...I don't think that her going NC will alienate him, I truly believe that if she is what he really wants, then he will find her when he has cleaned up his messy life and IMO it will give him some incentive to get it cleaned up quicker. (Wish someone had told me that way back when,) Of course she can tell him that she will be there when he gets things in a better place, but for her to continue in the position she is in right now will hurt her more and will make things more complicated for him. IMO, she needs to take care of herself first, not hand him her heart on a platter and say here you go......do with it as you will and I'll stick with you no matter what. That is an invitation to disaster. Just my 2 $. Excellent post!
jennie-jennie Posted February 8, 2010 Posted February 8, 2010 He left his wife the day after he told you how he felt. He moved out of his home. It's only been 3 months, he is trying to figure things out. I'm sure he loves you but D (especially with a child) is a scary thing and no body knows how to approach it. If you you trust him and he's worth it, live from day to day for a little while. Truly focus on enjoying the time you have with him for what it is and show him that you trust him. Remind him and yourself everyday why you both want to be together. Live and focus on the relationship you have with him, not the one he is trying to figure out if he should have left or not. If it doesn't work out then you still had the quality time with him and you know that he will truly miss you and that time. If it does work out your relationship will be even stronger because you trusted him to do it his way. NC is a control tool used to give yourself emotional strength with getting over someone or to punish the other person. You have neither here. He is trying to figure out how to do this and if he wants to - help him decide by being the better solution. What a wonderful compassionate post! This is the key to being an other woman.
jennie-jennie Posted February 8, 2010 Posted February 8, 2010 One last thought. Figure out what you really want before you figure out how to get there. If you go NC with him he will just compensate for the pain of you not being there by shifting his energy and get those things from his xW. NC will get you your self-esteem and pride but you will lose him and need to move on. You will pretty much be making that decision for him - plus you see him a couple of times a week to remind you, he will get stronger but NC will end up being harder for you than him. If you make yourself the better solution and just chill about the future at least for a little while then he makes the best decision based on what makes him happiest. Odds are if remove the stress from your relationship with him and you focus on being happy with him, you are gonna win that battle hands down - he is "working" on his marriage - he doesn't have to "work" with you and he. my $.02 anyway I agree. No wonder the BS are pushing NC so hard. Very interesting to hear it from a man's perspective. A former WS perhaps?
pete3447 Posted February 8, 2010 Posted February 8, 2010 (edited) .she can't take on his problems, it will drive her nutty and there isn't any reason for her to take herself down in order to save him. He has to save himself. bb, Well that was sort of my point . He is probably completely overwhelmed. Right now he is probably confused and trying to balance past obligation and a commitment that might not fit anymore vs. his future happiness (love) - something that does fit. responsibility vs. love. She is the love side of the equation. If she wants him, then she does have try to understand where he is. Love is a risk. It is kind of built on making yourself vulnerable maybe when you shouldn't. Being vulnerable and not getting burned builds trust. Making yourself vulnerable when there is a lot of risk builds a lot of trust. Yeah you can get burned but if you don't... Personally going into nc at the start of a new relationship seems like a good way to start it with walls and maybe even trust issues from the very start. It is kind of the ultimate way to say I will place myself before you when the situtation arises. So, I guess my point is, he is looking for what is right for him right now - he will save *himself*. He will be pulled to whatever seems best for him. NC can feel like an attack if it's used when someone hasn't really treated you badly and tried to be open with you. His wife didn't go NC. No matter when it's used, it's definately a statement about trust and used to end relationships - not start them in a healthy fashion. Edited February 8, 2010 by pete3447
Author Kcruiser Posted February 8, 2010 Author Posted February 8, 2010 Thank you so much for sharing your experience with me BB and Pete. I need to make a decision and trust me i understand both points of views. Which is why im going back and forth in my head.
serah Posted February 8, 2010 Posted February 8, 2010 PLEASE be careful, KCruiser. I know that every story is a little different, but yours is very similar to mine-- finally allowed myself to get close to a separated man, because I believed that divorce was in the works-- only to watch him move home the day before his apartment lease ran out, and he had to make a more permanent decision about his living situation. As much as I tried to guard myself against it in the beginning, I got burned in the end. I felt many of the same things as you-- that he was a "good guy", really cared about me, etc. But, in the end, I was the one who got hurt. I've been coping mainly by reading these boards, and there are SO many stories out there like ours. Just please, PLEASE enter into this cautiously. I know it's hard to do when you're crazy about the guy, but trust me, and trust the experience of others on this forum-- you're potentially setting yourself up for terrible heartache.
whichwayisup Posted February 8, 2010 Posted February 8, 2010 I am totally supportive of him and his son and yes he needs to come first but its the fact that his wife and him are still "trying" to work it out. Here's your reason to end it and let go. What is the point of trying to get closer to him, or get to know him further, allow yourself to become more attached to him? Why invest more into him? He really isn't a 'free' man, he's not really 'that' separated either. If you choose to stick around and see what happens, be prepared for the heartache and pain. If you choose to end it, just know that the timing was/is all wrong. And, ending it completely may allow him the opportunity to really focus on fixing his marriage, giving it his best - One last shot - For the sake of his son. If his wife is truly willing to try as well, (as much as it hurts you) back off and let him go.. He wasn't yours to begin with and it was wrong of him to get too involved with you from the get-go. Unintentionally, ofcourse, but still he was in no position to start something new with someone else. Now he's hurting you, his wife, his chances of reconnecting with his wife, keeping their family unit together as one. Good luck with whatever you decide, but take time to think it through. The good, the bad and the ugly.
norajane Posted February 8, 2010 Posted February 8, 2010 The other thing is he is only at 3 months - he is stuck between love and responsibility - he has the right to be confused as hell and have no idea what he is doing. He is probably a huge mess and wouldn't even be rational yet.Exactly. This is EXACTLY why she shouldn't be dating him, and why he should not be dating anyone. He needs to first figure out what he's doing with his WIFE - reconciling or not. Then he needs to actually take steps to end the marriage, and take time to process the ending of his marriage. Only then will he be un-confused enough and rational enough to date anyone. Before then, he's just a big ole mess and he's dumping the big ole mess on whatever woman he's dating, and setting her up for a world of hurt. So, I guess my point is, he is looking for what is right for him right now - he will save *himself*. He will be pulled to whatever seems best for him.Right. He's only thinking of himself and what's best for him, not what is best for anyone else. That's the kind of thinking that will hurt any woman who is starting a relationship with him while he's still "working it out" with his wife. And that's why the OP needs to look out for herself, and do what's right for her - because HE is only looking out for HIMSELF. And starting a relationship with a man who is confused and still cooking dinner for his wife and probably having sex with her while they "work it out" is not the in the OP's best interests. NC can feel like an attack if it's used when someone hasn't really treated you badly and tried to be open with you. His wife didn't go NC. No matter when it's used, it's definately a statement about trust and used to end relationships - not start them in a healthy fashion.How can you say he hasn't treated her badly? He's hiding her from his WIFE whom he's trying to "work it out" with. Where exactly is the "healthy" start to a relationship there?
norajane Posted February 8, 2010 Posted February 8, 2010 This is the key to being an other woman. Of course it is. The problem is, the OP doesn't want to be an other woman. She wants to be his girlfriend - not hiding from his wife.
jennie-jennie Posted February 8, 2010 Posted February 8, 2010 Of course it is. The problem is, the OP doesn't want to be an other woman. She wants to be his girlfriend - not hiding from his wife. Well, so do I. But meanwhile I can choose between being an unhappy OW or a relatively happy OW. What Pete says is exactly how I live my life to be as happy as possible and hopefully not have any regrets if the day comes when our relationship ends without me becoming his only woman.
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