mimidarlin Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Wow there is a lot in this thread to comment on. First, my husband's affair blindsided me. Did I think everything was rosy...no. His behavior tipped me off and I've always listened to my gut instinct. Thought he was avoiding me...he was unhappy...thought he was going to ask for divorce....did not think he would rip my heart out. He was/is a basically good guy. Our friends and his family are shocked at his behavior. They were dumbfounded. So do people get caught? Yes...some can't live with the lie. Some are good at living the lie. The OW in my case is pretty damn good at living the lie. I know she had an inappropriate relationship with in law of ours in addition to targeting my husband. Yet...she stands in church every Sunday as an adult assistant at the alter. Two children and a hell of a lot to lose. I know she has had two affairs in six months and my gut tells me that isn't all. So is an affair morally objectionable. For me it is objectionable. It is a betrayal of one of the most important relationships in our lives. So that is my opinion. Polygamy...open relationships. I try not to judge. If everyone is a consenting adult and aware of the situations then .... whatever. I don't understand how they can have that relationship but it doesn't make it morally objectionable.
Samantha0905 Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) true, but being stupid, detached or uninterested does not equate to evil Before I begin, yes -- I agree the actions in an affair are evil. However, although I agree with your assessment regarding stupidity -- being detached from or uninterested in your spouse certainly meets some of the qualifications also. evil [ee-vuhl] Show IPA –adjective 1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.An affair qualifies pretty clearly here. I also think there are some moral implications in consistently neglecting your spouse or not being at all interested in them as a person. Morality implies right conduct as far as what is considered the norm. Part of the traditional marriage vows includes: Marriage is the union of husband and wife in heart, body and mind. It is intended for their mutual joy – and for the help and comfort given on another in prosperity and adversity. But more importantly – it is a means through which a stable and loving environment may be attained.I'd say that pretty much involves both spouses. 2. harmful; injurious: evil laws.both an affair and detachment/disinterest regarding your spouse is pretty harmful and injurious. 3. characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.Both the consequences of an affair and neglect of a spouse or detachment apply here also. Anyway, the rest of the definition is below and I assume you get my drift. 4. due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation. 5. marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition. –noun 6. that which is evil; evil quality, intention, or conduct: to choose the lesser of two evils. 7. the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin. 8. the wicked or immoral part of someone or something: The evil in his nature has destroyed the good. 9. harm; mischief; misfortune: to wish one evil. 10. anything causing injury or harm: Tobacco is considered by some to be an evil. 11. a harmful aspect, effect, or consequence: the evils of alcohol. Now, I'm not saying every affair that occurs is a byproduct of a detached or uninterested spouse -- and I'm also not saying that a person who has an affair is an evil person -- although the actions involved in undertaking an affair qualify. It's also morally reprehensible for a spouse to be uninterested in and neglect their spouse the majority of the time unless they are suffering from sort of major depressive condition, or the like. Personally, I would rather not be married if I had to always "look closely" at everything my H does. IMO, that kind of paranoia would make me miserable. My H had an affair, I found out and we separated. We both worked on ourselves and then made the choice to re-build our marriage together. That included re-building the trust. It's not easy, and it takes time, but it's worth it when it works. Yes, I agree. I'm glad the two of you are working on rebuilding your marriage. Edited February 10, 2010 by Samantha0905
Impudent Oyster Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Yep.. I'm suggesting to look closely ... because even the Ws who swear their H aren't cheating.. or never will... that they have absolutely no reasons to doubt... well... if they 'scratch' a little bit.. they might find things that they don't necessarily want to find out... It's easier (and understandable sometimes) to just close our eyes.. If I have to hire a PI to check on my husband, I think I'd rather just get divorced.
Impudent Oyster Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 I find the scathing and degrading tone to posters obviously in pain and looking for help morally objectionable. GEL Interesting. Can you cite a specific example? Personally, I think you would find it objectionable to point out that affairs are wrong, harmful and flat out stupid. It makes the delusion so much harder to maintain when someone chips away at the fantasy, doesn't it?
Impudent Oyster Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Before I begin, yes -- I agree the actions in an affair are evil. However, although I agree with your assessment regarding stupidity -- being detached from or uninterested in your spouse certainly meets some of the qualifications also. An affair qualifies pretty clearly here. I also think there are some moral implications in consistently neglecting your spouse or not being at all interested in them as a person. Morality implies right conduct as far as what is considered the norm. Part of the traditional marriage vows includes: I'd say that pretty much involves both spouses. both an affair and detachment/disinterest regarding your spouse is pretty harmful and injurious. Both the consequences of an affair and neglect of a spouse or detachment apply here also. Anyway, the rest of the definition is below and I assume you get my drift. Now, I'm not saying every affair that occurs is a byproduct of a detached or uninterested spouse -- and I'm also not saying that a person who has an affair is an evil person -- although the actions involved in undertaking an affair qualify. It's also morally reprehensible for a spouse to be uninterested in and neglect their spouse the majority of the time unless they are suffering from sort of major depressive condition, or the like. Yes, I agree. I'm glad the two of you are working on rebuilding your marriage. I don't think a spouse who neglects their partner is a great catch, but it's quite a stretch to call their disinterest "morally reprehensible", don't you think? And if your spouse is neglecting you for a long time, I think the best course of action would be to divorce them, not "get back" at them by cheating on them.
Samantha0905 Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 I don't think a spouse who neglects their partner is a great catch, but it's quite a stretch to call their disinterest "morally reprehensible", don't you think? And if your spouse is neglecting you for a long time, I think the best course of action would be to divorce them, not "get back" at them by cheating on them. Now, I agree with the latter. It would definitely be the best course of action to try to work things out first and if things didn't work out -- get a divorce. Generally, however, when someone has been emotionally neglected for quite a while they are more open to temptation. I imagine that's why the devil sends it waltzing in at that time. I'm not saying it's right that a married person give in to it, but they are in a very vulnerable spot. I think it's pretty much a form of emotional abuse to neglect one's spouse continually and that's morally reprehensible to me. There's a good article called "Why Women Leave Men" by Willard F. Harley, Jr. on Marriage Builders that is of interest in this discussion. I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link, but it's easily googled. My point was both and affair and emotional neglect are pretty bad things to be occurring in a marriage.
Impudent Oyster Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 My point was both and affair and emotional neglect are pretty bad things to be occurring in a marriage. I agree, however, it also seemed that you were using emotional neglect as a justification for having an affair, and that is something I strongly disagree with. Two wrongs don't make a right. Ever.
pureinheart Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 No, he wasn't afraid of her, he was a conflict avoider. Which is, in addition to his addiction, one of the reasons I didn't have any idea about the affair. He always wanted everyone to like him and he really didn't like conflict. He was really great at being the "good guy". I don't think he would tell you that I "saved him". However, the d-day did make it easy for him to end the affair. Thank goodness things are very different now. Being an ex-people pleaser myself (in a different way, was afraid to tell people "no", actually didn't care what others thought of me), I can understand. It's funny because being a people pleaser in fact creates conflict (obviously). Well it sounds like he's really the good guy now...lol. I am so glad things turned out good...I am a total sucker for happily ever after
Samantha0905 Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 I agree, however, it also seemed that you were using emotional neglect as a justification for having an affair, and that is something I strongly disagree with. Two wrongs don't make a right. Ever. I clearly said an affair is wrong, but I think some people turn a blind eye to the fact a person may be extremely vulnerable when in a marriage where they are consistently neglected. It's easy to throw out there, "Well, then leave." Or something like, "Well, tell them." A WS may have attempted to talk to an non-communicative spouse many times. Departing from a marriage is easier said than done -- there are so many variables which make that difficult. I'm, again, not saying an affair is the right choice -- but sometimes it's a very poor choice a person makes when they are in a vulnerable situation and it could be the dynamic of the marriage relationship contributed to that vulnerability. So, we'll have to be somewhat in disagreement.
Snowflower Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 His guilt, he couldn't take it....I was gonna ask HN if she was violent as there was a lady on this board (and infidelity I think also) several yrs back that both her and her H were threatened physically by a lady who was not happy about the reconcilliation of the H and W. SF, is this a good thing? I am thinking it might be....did it work for your M, were you able to overcome the A? I'm sure it was guilt which in part led him to confess. I think it was eating him up inside. But his reaching out to me, in a last ditch attempt to save everything did help us reconcile our marriage. It still wasn't easy but it did help.
White Flower Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 I clearly said an affair is wrong, but I think some people turn a blind eye to the fact a person may be extremely vulnerable when in a marriage where they are consistently neglected. It's easy to throw out there, "Well, then leave." Or something like, "Well, tell them." A WS may have attempted to talk to an non-communicative spouse many times. Departing from a marriage is easier said than done -- there are so many variables which make that difficult. I'm, again, not saying an affair is the right choice -- but sometimes it's a very poor choice a person makes when they are in a vulnerable situation and it could be the dynamic of the marriage relationship contributed to that vulnerability. So, we'll have to be somewhat in disagreement. Especially given that the one who made the other vulnerable is also the one who makes him out to be the bad guy when he does try to leave. That's a lot of power.
pureinheart Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 I'm sure it was guilt which in part led him to confess. I think it was eating him up inside. But his reaching out to me, in a last ditch attempt to save everything did help us reconcile our marriage. It still wasn't easy but it did help. That is great that your M was saved, there are times when I wonder if I wasn't too hard on my ex. I had so many issues that I was dealing with that I snapped, well also he was taking steroid injections that made him violent....so no, I did the right thing. One of my ex's...lol....felt bad about all of it (the ex identified in the above paragragh), and had he not gotten into the steroids, I think our M could have been saved also...possibly one of the reasons for seeing others was his low self esteem which was the apparant reason for the steroid use.,..oh well, too weird... I do love happy beginnings though (like yours), it gives me hope..lol...
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