RedDevil66 Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 I agree. Having an affair IS evil. How is it not? If it wasn't wrong, people wouldn't go through such lengths to hide them. The definition of evil is morally objectionable behavior. That's a pretty accurate definition of an affair. can't argue with this. But when someone is deep in denial about their actions, they refuse to see their actions as evil. I mean who the he!! wants to admit their actions are evil?
OWoman Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 If it wasn't wrong, people wouldn't go through such lengths to hide them. Not everybody does. Nor is "evil" the only reason people hide things. Many people give to charity anonymously. Others enter competitions secretly, or live parallel lives (as, say, an author or a musician) under pseudonyms / noms de plume. Not everything "hidden" is rank, evil and devious. (Nor is their universal agreement on "morally objectionable". I find tax avoidance "morally objectionable", others do it as a matter of course. I find racism morally objectionable, but racists don't. I find religious bigotry morally objectionable, but religious fundamentalists don't. You may find sexual non-exclusivity morally objectionable; much of the rest of the world doesn't.)
RedDevil66 Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 Not everybody does. Nor is "evil" the only reason people hide things. Many people give to charity anonymously. Others enter competitions secretly, or live parallel lives (as, say, an author or a musician) under pseudonyms / noms de plume. Not everything "hidden" is rank, evil and devious. (Nor is their universal agreement on "morally objectionable". I find tax avoidance "morally objectionable", others do it as a matter of course. I find racism morally objectionable, but racists don't. I find religious bigotry morally objectionable, but religious fundamentalists don't. You may find sexual non-exclusivity morally objectionable; much of the rest of the world doesn't.) It's absolutely amazing that you are comparing those who are doing something to benefit others by giving to charities anonymously to the deception and sick lies of an affair Do you honestly think this can be compared?! No, you are right, not eveything hidden is evil, but donations or screwing married people are NO comparison!
Impudent Oyster Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 It's absolutely amazing that you are comparing those who are doing something to benefit others by giving to charities anonymously to the deception and sick lies of an affair Do you honestly think this can be compared?! No, you are right, not eveything hidden is evil, but donations or screwing married people are NO comparison! OWomen focused on the hidden aspect of affairs but completely glossed over the important part - that the definition of evil, like affairs, is "morally objectionable behavior". Selective reading I guess. 1
OWoman Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 OWomen focused on the hidden aspect of affairs but completely glossed over the important part - that the definition of evil, like affairs, is "morally objectionable behavior". Selective reading I guess. Clearly you didn't bother to read the entire post, as I already dealt with that bit: (Nor is their universal agreement on "morally objectionable". I find tax avoidance "morally objectionable", others do it as a matter of course. I find racism morally objectionable, but racists don't. I find religious bigotry morally objectionable, but religious fundamentalists don't. You may find sexual non-exclusivity morally objectionable; much of the rest of the world doesn't.)
Impudent Oyster Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 Clearly you didn't bother to read the entire post, as I already dealt with that bit: So you did. Sort of. There are some cultures who think stoning women to death who have affairs is not morally objectionable either. Sexual non-exclusivity? Nice euphemism for cheating on your spouse. Just because you have no problem with sleeping with married men doesn't mean it isn't morally objectionable behavior. I bet your husband's ex wife found it highly objectionable, had you bothered to ask her.
pureinheart Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 affair or no affair....but ....it won't take much time know what you are up to...technology made it really easy.....if you want ,you can know anybody on this forum what they are up to...it's really that easy Scorp...I'm really curious about what you said in bold....are you meaning people hacking forums finding where people live and such?
White Flower Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 So you did. Sort of. There are some cultures who think stoning women to death who have affairs is not morally objectionable either. Sexual non-exclusivity? Nice euphemism for cheating on your spouse. How can it be cheating when it is mutually agreed upon?
White Flower Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 Not everybody does. Nor is "evil" the only reason people hide things. Many people give to charity anonymously. Others enter competitions secretly, or live parallel lives (as, say, an author or a musician) under pseudonyms / noms de plume. Not everything "hidden" is rank, evil and devious. (Nor is their universal agreement on "morally objectionable". I find tax avoidance "morally objectionable", others do it as a matter of course. I find racism morally objectionable, but racists don't. I find religious bigotry morally objectionable, but religious fundamentalists don't. You may find sexual non-exclusivity morally objectionable; much of the rest of the world doesn't.) I'm beginning to think people ought to take or review a college debate class before they qualify to post on LS. OWoman, your reasoning skills are vast and uncomparable The fact that you take the time to offer them for free for anyone to nibble on is outstandingly altruistic. But oftentimes, sadly, your posts go unnoticed by those who simply cannot nor have the capacity to understand. You have great patience.
RedDevil66 Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 I'm beginning to think people ought to take or review a college debate class before they qualify to post on LS. OWoman, your reasoning skills are vast and uncomparable The fact that you take the time to offer them for free for anyone to nibble on is outstandingly altruistic. But oftentimes, sadly, your posts go unnoticed by those who simply cannot nor have the capacity to understand. You have great patience. Or maybe take a class in moral behavior
OWoman Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 Or maybe take a class in moral behavior I'd agree with that - it might give people some insight in perspectives other than their own. I took an undergraduate course in Morals and Ethics and it was very enlightening. A sure cure for bigotry - I heartily recommend it!
OWoman Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 How can it be cheating when it is mutually agreed upon? :lmao: I asked a similar question on another thread, and the response was that there was "deep denial" involved. :lmao: A bit like, "I know my argument is not strong enough to win, so let me call rude names and if that doesn't work, I can always bite and scratch..."
herenow Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) In my case, my H wanted to get caught. He didn't have the ba**s to just tell the OW he wanted out, so he did something that tipped me off and then he spilled the truth when I confronted him. In my realty all was well. Nothing had changed at home, so I had no reason to think that he was having an affair. Why would I look for signs and ask questions when I had no reason to? People who call the BW "stupid" have no idea how well some men can compartmentalize. My H said that, when he was with the OW, he was in a different mind set. As soon as he left her, that door closed in his mind and he went on with is daily (and nightly) life. We went on our usual dates, had sex, celebrated good times and shared each others sorrow in not so good times. All the things that married people do. So, unless I was an insecure and paranoid person, there was no reason for me to think there was an OW. How can anyone say that a BW is in denial when her WS isn't giving any clues that an OW even exists? I do think that it's possible to hide an affair if both APs want to. IMO, some people get caught because consciously or subconsciously they want to for whatever reason. Edited February 9, 2010 by herenow
RedDevil66 Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 :lmao: I asked a similar question on another thread, and the response was that there was "deep denial" involved. :lmao: A bit like, "I know my argument is not strong enough to win, so let me call rude names and if that doesn't work, I can always bite and scratch..." you mean similiar to your "bite and scatch" rude bigot comment. Pot meet kettle
pureinheart Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 In my case, my H wanted to get caught. He didn't have the ba**s to just tell the OW he wanted out, so he did something that tipped me off and then he spilled the truth when I confronted him. You have got to be kidding me.....was he afraid of her? You know HN I don't remember hearing your entire story, just that you had a WS. That is a trip and such a twist to the norm...you know having you save him per sey.
Snowflower Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 You have got to be kidding me.....was he afraid of her? You know HN I don't remember hearing your entire story, just that you had a WS. That is a trip and such a twist to the norm...you know having you save him per sey. Actually, I don't think it all that unusual. My situation was somewhat similar to what HN posted. Shortly after d-day when my H was still out of the house, I was perusing the cell phone bills. The evidence was all right there for me to see. All the phone calls and texts back and forth...it was so obvious, it would have been even if there hadn't been a d-day. I mean hello, he didn't even try to hide it. He KNEW I looked at the cellphone bill quite frequently because we have 2 teenagers. We have always monitored their cellphone usage. When I asked my H about the cellphone bills, how OBVIOUS it was that he was calling someone over and over at all hours of the day/night, how he thought he could possibly slip that by me for an extended period of time... My H replied, "I wanted you to catch me. I wanted you to make me stop talking to her. I hoped you would see it and figure it out and help me stop." Actually, he ended up confessing his A which was another attempt by him to get me to 'save him' somehow.
pureinheart Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 I have dealt with unagreed with situations in many R's. Once chose not to listen when a friend told me and accused her of lying because if I admitted what I deep down knew to be true, then I would have to act. He continued seeing others and I kept hearing about it and did it to him...hence my daughters father who as God as my witness was the best looking guy (inside and out) I had ever seen...he had girls hitting on him all of the time so I didn't pay much attention...then he started bigtime flirting with a couple of my friends and I did it to him. I was using the payback is a bit*h method in those days. One of them I had no reason to think he was with someone else and he left for her... Now this one I knew what was going on 3000 mi away with no info from anyone else....I became extremely atunned to tones as we talked on the phone everyday. One was denial, one was in my face, one totally unaware of, one was total instinct.
pureinheart Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 Actually, I don't think it all that unusual. My situation was somewhat similar to what HN posted. Shortly after d-day when my H was still out of the house, I was perusing the cell phone bills. The evidence was all right there for me to see. All the phone calls and texts back and forth...it was so obvious, it would have been even if there hadn't been a d-day. I mean hello, he didn't even try to hide it. He KNEW I looked at the cellphone bill quite frequently because we have 2 teenagers. We have always monitored their cellphone usage. When I asked my H about the cellphone bills, how OBVIOUS it was that he was calling someone over and over at all hours of the day/night, how he thought he could possibly slip that by me for an extended period of time... My H replied, "I wanted you to catch me. I wanted you to make me stop talking to her. I hoped you would see it and figure it out and help me stop." Actually, he ended up confessing his A which was another attempt by him to get me to 'save him' somehow. His guilt, he couldn't take it....I was gonna ask HN if she was violent as there was a lady on this board (and infidelity I think also) several yrs back that both her and her H were threatened physically by a lady who was not happy about the reconcilliation of the H and W. SF, is this a good thing? I am thinking it might be....did it work for your M, were you able to overcome the A?
GreenEyedLady Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 Having an affair IS evil. The definition of evil is morally objectionable behavior. That's a pretty accurate definition of an affair. It's also a pretty good description of most of your posts on this forum, don't ya think? That's my opinion. Therefore am I saying you're evil? Are you saying that your own H is evil? He did have an A. If you're going to make blanket generalizations make sure they apply to everyone and everything...
Impudent Oyster Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 It's also a pretty good description of most of your posts on this forum, don't ya think? That's my opinion. Therefore am I saying you're evil? Are you saying that your own H is evil? He did have an A. If you're going to make blanket generalizations make sure they apply to everyone and everything... Yes, his behavior was most definitely evil, and he will admit that. Any other questions? I'd like to know how my opinions regarding EMA's is morally objectionable. Or is it just the fact that you don't like to hear the truth?
Lizzie60 Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 Really look into it? Are you suggesting that spouses spy on each other? Check each others cell phone records? Follow them? Hire PI's? Yep.. I'm suggesting to look closely ... because even the Ws who swear their H aren't cheating.. or never will... that they have absolutely no reasons to doubt... well... if they 'scratch' a little bit.. they might find things that they don't necessarily want to find out... It's easier (and understandable sometimes) to just close our eyes..
GreenEyedLady Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 I'd like to know how my opinions regarding EMA's is morally objectionable. Or is it just the fact that you don't like to hear the truth? I find the scathing and degrading tone to posters obviously in pain and looking for help morally objectionable. And just because "you" say it is the truth, doesn't make it so. GEL
SuburbanOblivion Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 ...or how uninterested, detached or stupid the BS is. Sometimes, even when they're TOLD, they still don't believe it... Ain't that the truth. I recently told someone her partner had cheated on her, and she flat out called me a liar and how dare I say such things about him. Said she knew he'd cheated on her in the past but he wasn't like that anymore. There's denial, and there's outright stupidity. She was the latter.
herenow Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 You have got to be kidding me.....was he afraid of her? You know HN I don't remember hearing your entire story, just that you had a WS. That is a trip and such a twist to the norm...you know having you save him per sey. No, he wasn't afraid of her, he was a conflict avoider. Which is, in addition to his addiction, one of the reasons I didn't have any idea about the affair. He always wanted everyone to like him and he really didn't like conflict. He was really great at being the "good guy". I don't think he would tell you that I "saved him". However, the d-day did make it easy for him to end the affair. Thank goodness things are very different now.
herenow Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Yep.. I'm suggesting to look closely ... because even the Ws who swear their H aren't cheating.. or never will... that they have absolutely no reasons to doubt... well... if they 'scratch' a little bit.. they might find things that they don't necessarily want to find out... It's easier (and understandable sometimes) to just close our eyes.. Personally, I would rather not be married if I had to always "look closely" at everything my H does. IMO, that kind of paranoia would make me miserable. My H had an affair, I found out and we separated. We both worked on ourselves and then made the choice to re-build our marriage together. That included re-building the trust. It's not easy, and it takes time, but it's worth it when it works.
Recommended Posts