question for guys: porn and relationships

[rod_in_gtown]

Porn erodes the soul.

 

 

I love it that a "hot carl" dejects depictions of sexual acts

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Hot-Carl

[Hot Carl]

That's just a coincidence. My name really is Carl, and I can't keep cool.

[rod_in_gtown]

That's just a coincidence. My name really is Carl, and I can't keep cool.

 

I didn't mean anything by it. I just thought it was funny.

[skydiveaddict]

Same with cheesecake. Perhaps we should ban it across the world.

 

 

Who said anything about "banning" it? I don't care what you do.

[meerkat stew]

Same with cheesecake. Perhaps we should ban it across the world.

 

There's nothing more pathetic than one of those cheesecake addicts, shambling around like a zombie, looking for crumbs in the carpet, licking that round piece of cardboard when no cake is left.

 

Stay at their house at your own risk, you can be squeezing a tube of toothpaste and CHEESECAKE comes out where they crammed it up in there for a secret stash, and brother, let me tell you, cheesecake makes for some awful toothpaste (though it tastes pretty darn good).

 

When they can no longer afford the good stuff from the deli, you see them creeping up and down the grocery aisles trying not to look conspicuous with a cartload of Sara Lee. The saddest ones can't even afford that any more and dig up under the couch cushions for change to get a crappy single wrapped slice at the Quik Trip.

 

And once they reach their moment of clarity it's off to the state clinic for a weekly portion of artificially flavored government "cheese food" blended with Crisco and sawdust. The horror. O the horror.

Edited February 5, 2010 by meerkat stew

[skydiveaddict]

There's nothing more pathetic than one of those cheesecake addicts, shambling around like a zombie, looking for crumbs in the carpet, licking that round piece of cardboard when no cake is left.

 

Stay at their house at your own risk, you can be squeezing a tube of toothpaste and CHEESECAKE comes out where they crammed it up in there for a secret stash, and brother, let me tell you, cheesecake makes for some awful toothpaste (though it tastes pretty darn good).

 

When they can no longer afford the good stuff from the deli, you see them creeping up and down the grocery aisles trying not to look conspicuous with a cartload of Sara Lee. The saddest ones can't even afford that any more and dig up under the couch cushions for change to get a crappy single wrapped slice at the Quik Trip.

 

And once they reach their moment of clarity it's off to the state clinic for a weekly portion of artificially flavored government "cheese food" blended with Crisco and sawdust. The horror. O the horror.

 

 

LMFAO! Nice That's just too funny! That's gotta be the funniest post i've ever read

Edited February 5, 2010 by skydiveaddict

[soserious1]

I've got no issue with porn per say, what does bother me is that a lot of guys who would argue all night about their right to view the stuff get door slamming, foot stomping, screaming MAD when a women tells them they're not in mood for sex and suggests that they grab some lotion,kleenex and go enjoy their porn collection.

[counterman]

I've got no issue with porn per say, what does bother me is that a lot of guys who would argue all night about their right to view the stuff get door slamming, foot stomping, screaming MAD when a women tells them they're not in mood for sex and suggests that they grab some lotion,kleenex and go enjoy their porn collection.

 

A guy who does this is obviously immature. Though, I would say that if it's just a suggestion to go enjoy porn then it should be fine. If it were, say, implying anything then, of course, he might be a bit upset as he sees that you my be condemning him or making him feel guilty for watcing porn. Still, don't think it will be to that level of door slamming and, basically, chucking a hissy fit.

 

If a guy viewed porn whilst having his partner over and expects her to finish off the job, then that would be an issue.

[Els]

Actually I think lots of men don't watch porn - they do tend to be very religious/conservative or simply disinterested in sex in general, though.

 

Of course, the majority of men AREN'T religious/conservative or disinterested in sex, so they do watch porn.

 

Frankly, after my experience with an ex who wasn't interested in porn (OR anything sexual for the matter, video games were more interesting to him...), I would be very wary of a man who has never watched porn.

[meerkat stew]

Actually I think lots of men don't watch porn - they do tend to be very religious/conservative or simply disinterested in sex in general, though.

 

Already quoted a reasonable stat from a web tracking company that said that 65% of men 18-34 use porn once per month. I don't know if this is men generally or men who use the net. Now add in men aged up to 55 and increase the frequency of use to twice a week (which would likely be the threshhold where this issue even begins to irritate women who don't like porn) and the percentage of true porn users in the male population would be a MUCH lower percentage, no way of guessing, probably a quarter or less of all men.

 

Then, if you add in world population, China for instance, where porn is blocked on the web by the government and like many countries, culture is stricter or more traditional, you could probably say fairly confidently that a tiny minority of men in the world population are regular porn users.

 

It's time for all the "all guys look at porn" BS to stop. It's a completely inaccurate statement. No way of fixing the actual percentage of frequent porn users, but I have a hunch it's well below 10% worldwide. Alarmists who want to slant the numbers make stats based on "once a month" and only include men 18-34, instead of making the usage twice per week and including all men below senior citizen level. An honest statistic would indicate a very low frequent usage percentage, religious or not.

[Jersey Shortie]

Considering the amount of sexually active men, a billion dollar industry is quite small if you consider the per-capita cost of erotic media.

 

BS Rod. There are many articles I've read on this topic and I've never heard one expert ever say a billion dollar, a multi-billion dollar industry, was small. Lets also remember the amount of free porn out there that doesn't need to be paid for that is viewed daily. Lets be realistic here. Porn is not a multi-billion dollar industry because men *only* view once-in-awhile.

 

I think alot of men reallly attempt to down play their use of porn out of their own insecurities. I think men fear that they are infact all too dependent on porn today but don't have the true strength to overcome it. I think men understand themselves enough to know that porn is a weakness. And not a pretty one. Why do so many men want to defend a media that doesn't even showcase men or women well? Even more so, why do so many men want to defend a media that brings out the ugly side of men? Not the good side that women would hold more respect for? Would men not find more satisfaction in doing the things that real woman would respect them for instead of pandering to their desires that make them more often weak and supplicating then strong and honorable? How many men here respect a woman more when she exercises self control within her self to either not eat that cookie, or not lay all her emotional feelings at his feet or any number of qualities men dislike in women and LIKE when a woman exercises self control?

 

These are signicant questions to ask yourself. I do not expect most men here to be so honest as to directly address any of them. I've asked them before and they are usually ignored. And I know they are ignored because I know people see the truth in the questions.

 

 

True, we don't know her father as she does, I was trying to put things in perspective and possibly make her think about what it is that she thinks she knows and the possibility that there are things she might not know about her father. Of course he's not going to say "well darling, of course I have masturbated to a picture of a beautiful woman naked". But that doesn't mean he hasn't.

 

No, you were not trying to put things in perspective. You want her to look at her father as just another guy, hey like you and the guy down the street, who should pander to his desires and who women should be *understanding* of because your a guy after all.

 

Perhaps some men here would rather that women held low expectations of men in general and their ability to control their seuxality, so that men didn't ever really *have* to control their seuxality without any reprocussions and they could get the benefits of women thinking they are wonderful without men acutally having to put in the work to anything worth being wonderful for. So they would like to even turn a woman's opinion of her father into one that is pretty unflattering and equal to that of any old joe off the street that views porn.

 

What do you and the other guys here think you are going to get by taking MissJones personal relationship with her father and stepping inbetween what she has told you she knows about her father. How would you feel if a woman came on here and said some unflattering things about your mother? Then tried to justify it by crappy female behavior that "all women do"? I am really flabberghasted at what you think you are going to accomplish by trying to pit a woman agaisnt her own father and try to make her view him in a way that no daughter should view her father if she and he wants to maintain the respect for him. Is the justifcation of porn worth that much that you rather destroy the respect a woman should have for her father? That you would rather see her view her own father like every other joe on the street that view porn?

 

I think there is something in many men that makes them feel better in their unity for porn. I think that what many of you were trying to do is foster these comments about her father. You either what to lower her opinion of her own father or you want her to respect her father just as much even as a group of men are telling her that her own father lusted over other women other then her own mother. You aren't going to accomplish anything positive that way.

 

If she believes something with such blind faith, there is nothing but disappointment in her future relationships because nobody can measure up to that ideal.

 

Now you are so worried about her disappointment in furture relationships? Maybe if most men were more concerned about this to begin with this wouldn't be such a point of contention.

 

Maybe you don't think you can personally measure up to an "ideal". Maybe most men don't believe they can. Maybe most men don't believe they can reach beyond their physical desires. But I think they can. I think men totally have the ability to be so much greater, stronger more respected then men today allow themselves to be. Truth is though, men aren't going to find that in porn. And they aren't going to be better men, lovers, fathers, husbands and partners because they relieve themselves with porn.

 

It's a choice, she can choose to believe she knows everything she needs to know and push everything aside, or decide to accept the possibilities and expand her horizons.

 

I have wished for a long while now that men would make the leap to expan their horizones as well. I find men much more staid in their lives then women.

 

 

An issue is only an issue if it prevents you from pursuing your happiness, if the release of using erotic media gives him the peace and lucidity to tackle the rest of his business sensibly, then it is not an issue to him. Only to you. and in the grand scheme of things, what you think of a person who uses porn is inconsequential to his pursuit of happiness.

 

Lets not be so extreme to say that anything that makes us happy is okay. That pretty much is saying that child molesting is okay because the molestor is pursuing their happiness. Or that drug addiction is okay because they are pursing their happiness. Many people are abel to function in normal society and have heavy addictions. It does not mean that these addictions are infact not issues.

 

Oh yeah, I am completely well aware that most guys do not care how they hurt the woman in their lives with their porn use. Or do not feel the need to exercise a level of self control that is completely gone to the wayside in the modern world. That's why I get so disheartend and frustrated on this topic. I am totally well aware that most men do not care much about anything as long as they can continue to view porn.

 

Now there are a view men here, Green, Skydiveaddict, Scott..that do not seem to have the need to relay on porn to be happy. It's wonderful and refresing to see their honest and different male perspectives. It gives me a little hope.

 

 

Erotic media has been around for thousands of years. You may argue that it has led to the decay of every civilization before this one but that, again, is inconsequential because there's no proof.

 

I will restate.

There is such an ironic preening and pushing to make porn seem harmless when in this day and age, with the amount that is out there and the kind that is out there, it just isn't. More men and boys are spending more time with porn. That's a fact. More men and boys are spending time with porn that's become more hardcore. That's a fact.

 

Only conjectures drawn up from your moral compass.

 

But it's not just me. Men don't even respect the women in porn and they don't respect themselves more for using porn. Men are not embarressed by porn because their mothers taught them to be. Men are embarressed because they know it's a weakness. Most men wouldn't touch a woman from porn with a 10 foot pole. But they still choose to defend it to the woman in their lives. Most men wouldn't want a woman they cared for in porn because most men see the objecfication, the debasement and know how humilating most porn is towards women. But again, not something enough men carry about when it comes to what makes a man orgasm. That is ultimately what men care most about in this world.

 

This is not an invention of modern day, extreme sexual practices have existed since before recorded history, (that is not a fact, but a conjecture drawn up by my own rationale) however you only need to look at roman history to see that "immoral" sexual behavior existed before the dawn of the accessibility brought on by the internet.

 

Totally! Extreme sexual practices have existed forever. So what exactly does that mean? That the internet as infact not made those type of practices more obvious and have infact made more people more aware of them and wanting to do them? That women aren't infact more humilated in porn today then decades past? That because the Romans did it, it's all gravey? I'm confused what you think your justifying. We don't live in roman culture and just because Romans didn't didn't mean it was any better. It's okay to call a woman a four letter name and smack her around a bit? Because the Romans did? Sexual "immoral" behavior always exsisted. And now we live in a world where we have it at our finger tips 24/7 and younger generations of boys can grow up on a more vivid, visually accessable world then ever before. Please don't tell me that doesn't change things. You know it does. You want to keep talking about 1,000s of years ago. Why are you so unable to related current culture to current social and sexual issues?

 

 

10 years ago? of course they did.

 

Not to the volume and extremity we see today.

 

sexual creativity has been around as long as creativity has.

 

We aren't talking about simple sexual creativity. How many times have men used the argument that they got their ides from porn? There are things men have see in porn and are now asking as if it's normal. And it's not. Because they admit themselves that they never would have thought of these things if it wasn't for a medium that I think ALL of us can admit is degradign to women.

 

 

I will agree with you that some of the stereotypes of erotic media has limited the creativity of the individual by dictating what's beautiful and arousing.

 

And men eat it up. And it is at the expense of women, not men, that those stereotypes happen. But again, that is not something men care about. And yet, men expect women to be super sexy, open sex kitten and feel so confident when the messages men give daily is that what she is isn't anything compared to what he can stupidly stare at on a computer.

 

In your eyes, a woman who chooses to be a part of any piece of erotic media, is automatically being objectified, regardless of her excercise of free will. Doesn't that, by the same token, mean that you objectify that same woman by judging her without regard for her choice to be a part of it? Don't answer that. It's a rhetorical question and serves no real purpose for the sake of this argument. The point of the thread was to evaluate the worth of a man for his part in the use of erotic media everything else is probably pertinent to another thread.

Free will does not negate being objectified. Even when someone agrees to do something, they could very well be objectifying themselves and a general poplulation. Are you really goign to argue that women are not objectfied in porn? How am I objectfying anyone by coming to the logical conclusion that someone in a movie is being used? I am not judging her as a person. Heck, I bet my thoughts about her are 10x more kind then the men watching her.

 

 

I don't have to find your evidence for you. If you don't believe my opinion, it's up to you to educate yourself on what you think is feasible.

 

So you don't have facts to back up your comments. That's fine. This isn't about me not being educating on the subject. This about you not wanting to produce the facts to back up your comments.

 

 

To me, logical deduction serves me just fine.

 

Again that's fine. I have m yown logical deductions that are clearly at odds with yours.

 

If you don't like my opinions then don't read them. It doesn't affect me either way.

 

I have no doubt that it doesn't affect you. However, for all the women that come on her frustrated, alone and tired and scared, it affects them. And in turn, it affects how they view the men in their lives and their relationships with them. Too many men are willing to let porn damange their real life relationships.

 

For a while I spent alot of time online trying to understand why men seemed to have this huge loyatly for porn. I thought if I read enough articles or talked enough about the subject I coudl come to some peace on this loyatly that men have for porn that they do not seem to have in equal amouns for real women. But I think it's just left me more confused and frustrated. I do undrestand that most men don't care if a woman is hurt by porn and most men don't want to let other opinions affect their never ending desire to feed off of porn. I even spent time looking at porn trying to understand the things men liked. And it left me more confused, sad, and disheartened by how little men really like about real women and how much men wanted to make women into something they aren't. It doesnt' seem like men really want to celebrate true female sexuality so much as they want their wome nto conform to a protrayl of sexuality in a movie.

[Jersey Shortie]

..So, here is what porn does. It makes a part of the guy’s brain think that he has just succeeded in attracting one of the most beautiful women in the world. It gives him a huge mental “payout” for that difficult feat. Except, he didn't really do it. He's getting the pleasure without actually having to do the hard work. Basically, the more porn he uses, the more it kills his motivation to do the hard work of actually attracting a real beautiful woman. He “learns” that the things in porn are normal.

 

Porn as it exists today is not at all a natural thing. It did not exist worth talking about during the millions of years of human evolution. The human body and brain do not really know what to do with it, in a similar way that they don't know what to do with crack, heroin, etc. The human male did not evolve to need porn-- it's not like it's some kind of requirement. At best it's the same thing as eating a diet of highly refined sugar all day long, it tastes good but you don't get the nutrition. It is a very good analogy, it's just like starting with fresh fruit, and taking out all the fiber, vitamins, antioxidants, etc., until you're just left with the sucrose, the part that tastes good.

 

There are a lot of people out there that have a lot of problem with porn addiction, there are entire websites devoted to this.

 

If you use porn and are defending it, consider that you have a very strong interest in believing that it's okay. You would have to give up a lot of pleasure if it wasn't. On the other hand, those of us who are trying to talk people out of it would not have to give up anything if we turned out to be wrong. In fact, it would “free” us to go experience the supposed wonders of porn. Most of us in fact have experienced that, and have chosen for one reason or another to stay away.

 

If you want to ignore all this and say that porn is somehow normal and healthy, no one will stop you. But, if time passes and you are no longer so sure that it's not hurting you, think about it all again.

 

Scott

 

Great post Scott. Thanks for your imput. I greatly appreicate that there are men like you still out there. Although hard to find in the riff raff.

[samspade]

I agree that porn is an indulgence and not a necessity. But doesn't mean it shouldn't be enjoyed from time to time if that's your thing, as long as you don't let it take over your life. Just because something didn't exist when we were reptiles doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed. We didn't drink coffee until a few hundred years ago either, but I'm not going to let anyone take away my coffee.

 

As to the OP's question, I'm not that into porn to begin with, but I check it out a lot less when I'm in a committed relationship. My GF right now is great in bed so I don't feel the "need" (sorry). Certainly the two are related. I think if you have a serious GF and still have a major desire for porn (outside of enjoying it together), she is not satisfying you and you should get out and find someone else... provided you've already voiced your fantasies a few times.

 

This topic has been beaten to death, you know my stance...life is short, enjoy it. Enjoy porn if that's your thing, but don't over do it and don't let it be a substitute for a real, live penis or vagina. The sad thing is that most men think that what they see in porn is only fantasy...they don't realize the power they have to seduce, and that most women want to be dominated and degraded in bed with the right guy. They don't want the sweet, gentle gyrations of the typical American wuss. They want their guy to pin them down and pound away like an animal. Men, if you spend your hours beating off and fantasizing but not seducing, you will never get to be the guy on your laptop through which you live vicariously.

[AAlike]

So, here is what porn does. It makes a part of the guy’s brain think that he has just succeeded in attracting one of the most beautiful women in the world. It gives him a huge mental “payout” for that difficult feat. Except, he didn't really do it. He's getting the pleasure without actually having to do the hard work. Basically, the more porn he uses, the more it kills his motivation to do the hard work of actually attracting a real beautiful woman. He “learns” that the things in porn are normal.

 

This is preposterous.[COLOR=#888888]

[/COLOR]

[A O]

If you want to ignore all this and say that porn is somehow normal and healthy

Porn is no different to guns, drugs, alcohol, cars, even money In the right hands, they all can be used perfectly responsibly and in general, they are all used perfectly reasonably. Porn, like all the other aspects above, only becomes a problem in the hands of dysfunctional people. Dysfunction almost always is a result of poor upbringing. Porn, is merely one outlet of choice for already dysfunctional people, but the overwhelming majority of porn users can and do use porn in a manner that doesn't impact on either their life or those close to them in any sort of negative manner. This is backed up by the fact that the US incarceration rate, alone, for all prisoners, not just sex offenders currently sits around 1-2% of the adult population. Now, given the numbers bandied around here in relation to porn use among males (well over 90% in most cases) then these numbers speak for themselves.

 

In short, trying to slur the majority based on the actions of the few is a totally fallacious argument.

 

.

[Jersey Shortie]

As to the OP's question, I'm not that into porn to begin with....,

 

A multi-billion dollar industry, most men are very into it. Not to even mention all the free porn men are viewing. Despite the prostrations to the contrary.

 

..but I check it out a lot less when I'm in a committed relationship. My GF right now is great in bed so I don't feel the "need" (sorry).

 

Well, it just supports what I said. No matter what you do as a woman, the guy *still* will view porn. It's important to men.

 

The sad thing is that most men think that what they see in porn is only fantasy...they don't realize the power they have to seduce, and that most women want to be dominated and degraded in bed with the right guy.

 

 

Yes, women like to be seduced and dominated...but they want to be treated like the are worthless..which is pretty much exactly how porn treats women.

 

Men, if you spend your hours beating off and fantasizing but not seducing, you will never get to be the guy on your laptop through which you live vicariously.

 

Men do live vicariously through porn. And more and more men do spend more time infront of their computers instead of learning about real women.

[You'reasian]

BS Rod. There are many articles I've read on this topic and I've never heard one expert ever say a billion dollar, a multi-billion dollar industry, was small. Lets also remember the amount of free porn out there that doesn't need to be paid for that is viewed daily. Lets be realistic here. Porn is not a multi-billion dollar industry because men *only* view once-in-awhile.

 

I think alot of men reallly attempt to down play their use of porn out of their own insecurities. I think men fear that they are infact all too dependent on porn today but don't have the true strength to overcome it. I think men understand themselves enough to know that porn is a weakness. And not a pretty one. Why do so many men want to defend a media that doesn't even showcase men or women well? Even more so, why do so many men want to defend a media that brings out the ugly side of men? Not the good side that women would hold more respect for? Would men not find more satisfaction in doing the things that real woman would respect them for instead of pandering to their desires that make them more often weak and supplicating then strong and honorable? How many men here respect a woman more when she exercises self control within her self to either not eat that cookie, or not lay all her emotional feelings at his feet or any number of qualities men dislike in women and LIKE when a woman exercises self control?

 

These are signicant questions to ask yourself. I do not expect most men here to be so honest as to directly address any of them. I've asked them before and they are usually ignored. And I know they are ignored because I know people see the truth in the questions.

 

 

 

 

No, you were not trying to put things in perspective. You want her to look at her father as just another guy, hey like you and the guy down the street, who should pander to his desires and who women should be *understanding* of because your a guy after all.

 

Perhaps some men here would rather that women held low expectations of men in general and their ability to control their seuxality, so that men didn't ever really *have* to control their seuxality without any reprocussions and they could get the benefits of women thinking they are wonderful without men acutally having to put in the work to anything worth being wonderful for. So they would like to even turn a woman's opinion of her father into one that is pretty unflattering and equal to that of any old joe off the street that views porn.

 

What do you and the other guys here think you are going to get by taking MissJones personal relationship with her father and stepping inbetween what she has told you she knows about her father. How would you feel if a woman came on here and said some unflattering things about your mother? Then tried to justify it by crappy female behavior that "all women do"? I am really flabberghasted at what you think you are going to accomplish by trying to pit a woman agaisnt her own father and try to make her view him in a way that no daughter should view her father if she and he wants to maintain the respect for him. Is the justifcation of porn worth that much that you rather destroy the respect a woman should have for her father? That you would rather see her view her own father like every other joe on the street that view porn?

 

I think there is something in many men that makes them feel better in their unity for porn. I think that what many of you were trying to do is foster these comments about her father. You either what to lower her opinion of her own father or you want her to respect her father just as much even as a group of men are telling her that her own father lusted over other women other then her own mother. You aren't going to accomplish anything positive that way.

 

 

 

Now you are so worried about her disappointment in furture relationships? Maybe if most men were more concerned about this to begin with this wouldn't be such a point of contention.

 

Maybe you don't think you can personally measure up to an "ideal". Maybe most men don't believe they can. Maybe most men don't believe they can reach beyond their physical desires. But I think they can. I think men totally have the ability to be so much greater, stronger more respected then men today allow themselves to be. Truth is though, men aren't going to find that in porn. And they aren't going to be better men, lovers, fathers, husbands and partners because they relieve themselves with porn.

 

 

 

I have wished for a long while now that men would make the leap to expan their horizones as well. I find men much more staid in their lives then women.

 

 

 

 

Lets not be so extreme to say that anything that makes us happy is okay. That pretty much is saying that child molesting is okay because the molestor is pursuing their happiness. Or that drug addiction is okay because they are pursing their happiness. Many people are abel to function in normal society and have heavy addictions. It does not mean that these addictions are infact not issues.

 

Oh yeah, I am completely well aware that most guys do not care how they hurt the woman in their lives with their porn use. Or do not feel the need to exercise a level of self control that is completely gone to the wayside in the modern world. That's why I get so disheartend and frustrated on this topic. I am totally well aware that most men do not care much about anything as long as they can continue to view porn.

 

Now there are a view men here, Green, Skydiveaddict, Scott..that do not seem to have the need to relay on porn to be happy. It's wonderful and refresing to see their honest and different male perspectives. It gives me a little hope.

 

 

 

 

I will restate.

There is such an ironic preening and pushing to make porn seem harmless when in this day and age, with the amount that is out there and the kind that is out there, it just isn't. More men and boys are spending more time with porn. That's a fact. More men and boys are spending time with porn that's become more hardcore. That's a fact.

 

 

 

But it's not just me. Men don't even respect the women in porn and they don't respect themselves more for using porn. Men are not embarressed by porn because their mothers taught them to be. Men are embarressed because they know it's a weakness. Most men wouldn't touch a woman from porn with a 10 foot pole. But they still choose to defend it to the woman in their lives. Most men wouldn't want a woman they cared for in porn because most men see the objecfication, the debasement and know how humilating most porn is towards women. But again, not something enough men carry about when it comes to what makes a man orgasm. That is ultimately what men care most about in this world.

 

 

 

Totally! Extreme sexual practices have existed forever. So what exactly does that mean? That the internet as infact not made those type of practices more obvious and have infact made more people more aware of them and wanting to do them? That women aren't infact more humilated in porn today then decades past? That because the Romans did it, it's all gravey? I'm confused what you think your justifying. We don't live in roman culture and just because Romans didn't didn't mean it was any better. It's okay to call a woman a four letter name and smack her around a bit? Because the Romans did? Sexual "immoral" behavior always exsisted. And now we live in a world where we have it at our finger tips 24/7 and younger generations of boys can grow up on a more vivid, visually accessable world then ever before. Please don't tell me that doesn't change things. You know it does. You want to keep talking about 1,000s of years ago. Why are you so unable to related current culture to current social and sexual issues?

 

 

 

 

Not to the volume and extremity we see today.

 

 

 

We aren't talking about simple sexual creativity. How many times have men used the argument that they got their ides from porn? There are things men have see in porn and are now asking as if it's normal. And it's not. Because they admit themselves that they never would have thought of these things if it wasn't for a medium that I think ALL of us can admit is degradign to women.

 

 

 

 

And men eat it up. And it is at the expense of women, not men, that those stereotypes happen. But again, that is not something men care about. And yet, men expect women to be super sexy, open sex kitten and feel so confident when the messages men give daily is that what she is isn't anything compared to what he can stupidly stare at on a computer.

 

 

Free will does not negate being objectified. Even when someone agrees to do something, they could very well be objectifying themselves and a general poplulation. Are you really goign to argue that women are not objectfied in porn? How am I objectfying anyone by coming to the logical conclusion that someone in a movie is being used? I am not judging her as a person. Heck, I bet my thoughts about her are 10x more kind then the men watching her.

 

 

 

 

So you don't have facts to back up your comments. That's fine. This isn't about me not being educating on the subject. This about you not wanting to produce the facts to back up your comments.

 

 

 

 

Again that's fine. I have m yown logical deductions that are clearly at odds with yours.

 

 

 

I have no doubt that it doesn't affect you. However, for all the women that come on her frustrated, alone and tired and scared, it affects them. And in turn, it affects how they view the men in their lives and their relationships with them. Too many men are willing to let porn damange their real life relationships.

 

For a while I spent alot of time online trying to understand why men seemed to have this huge loyatly for porn. I thought if I read enough articles or talked enough about the subject I coudl come to some peace on this loyatly that men have for porn that they do not seem to have in equal amouns for real women. But I think it's just left me more confused and frustrated. I do undrestand that most men don't care if a woman is hurt by porn and most men don't want to let other opinions affect their never ending desire to feed off of porn. I even spent time looking at porn trying to understand the things men liked. And it left me more confused, sad, and disheartened by how little men really like about real women and how much men wanted to make women into something they aren't.

 

It doesnt' seem like men really want to celebrate true female sexuality so much as they want their wome nto conform to a protrayl of sexuality in a movie.

 

I haven't counted the times you've used the word men in this quote, but its alot!

 

You blame men for everything - no suprise and even ignore information showing that porn is consumed almost as much by women. You're so deep in feminist dogma that a rational argument cannot take place, less you pull the argument back into that realm and then reinforce it with your own insecurities.

 

JS - how would you love a man?

[Jaytb]

I haven't counted the times you've used the word men in this quote' date=' but its alot! [/quote']

 

LOL! Google Chrome says it's 57 times.

[Barky]

Lulz.. I always find it amusing when women get all bent out of shape about porn. I think the thing that they hate so much about it is that there's nothing they can do about it. They can't convince men it's "wrong" and they can't personally handle the fact that it means men are getting hot for women other than them.

 

It's a female conundrum that's endlessly entertaining for me, especially when they post passionate diatribes against it on internet forums to people they've never met and never will.

 

Get used to the pain, because porn is here and it's going to stay. And men aren't going to be convinced that it's "wrong," because to them it simply isn't. Ladies: deal with it.

[Bejita463]

Lulz.. I always find it amusing when women get all bent out of shape about porn. I think the thing that they hate so much about it is that there's nothing they can do about it. They can't convince men it's "wrong" and they can't personally handle the fact that it means men are getting hot for women other than them.

 

It's a female conundrum that's endlessly entertaining for me, especially when they post passionate diatribes against it on internet forums to people they've never met and never will.

 

Get used to the pain, because porn is here and it's going to stay. And men aren't going to be convinced that it's "wrong," because to them it simply isn't. Ladies: deal with it.

 

That attitude is just as bad as the other side of the argument. It just comes from the other direction. Plenty of ladies enjoy porn as well. Too many people on this forum generalize.

 

...I just made a generalization are generalizing! OH SHI-

Edited February 6, 2010 by Bejita463

[A O]

That attitude is just as bad as the other side of the argument.

I'd call it worse - much worse than having an opposing view. This is someone who gets off on the misery of others. For the most part, that's a separate beast to this issue. Also, those who see the world this way tend to have, or have had, their own fair share of issues with people. We tend to project what we are after all.

 

.

[Barky]

I admit I laugh at people who get bent out of shape over stuff they can do nothing about. Call it schadenfreude.

[soserious1]

Lulz.. I always find it amusing when women get all bent out of shape about porn. I think the thing that they hate so much about it is that there's nothing they can do about it. They can't convince men it's "wrong" and they can't personally handle the fact that it means men are getting hot for women other than them.

 

It's a female conundrum that's endlessly entertaining for me, especially when they post passionate diatribes against it on internet forums to people they've never met and never will.

 

Get used to the pain, because porn is here and it's going to stay. And men aren't going to be convinced that it's "wrong," because to them it simply isn't. Ladies: deal with it.

 

Some of us are already "dealing with it" either by leaving relationships or refusing to commit altogether.

 

Why should I be bothered putting all sorts of work and effort into caretaking for some guy just so he can have more free time to sneak off to the den and beat off to porn?

 

Thanks but no thanks men can keep their porn with my blessings, I'll keep things like my paycheck, my leisure time etc, if I need the physical relaxation of climax I can get that from a casual, no strings encounter, no need to struggle about anything.

[Barky]

if I need the physical relaxation of climax I can get that from a casual, no strings encounter

 

Excellent..

 

the plan is working guys!!

 

Now we get porn AND easy sex. I love the 21st century.

[Woggle]

Actually I think lots of men don't watch porn - they do tend to be very religious/conservative or simply disinterested in sex in general, though.

 

Of course, the majority of men AREN'T religious/conservative or disinterested in sex, so they do watch porn.

 

Frankly, after my experience with an ex who wasn't interested in porn (OR anything sexual for the matter, video games were more interesting to him...), I would be very wary of a man who has never watched porn.

 

Very true. Lookin at porn means a man has a healthy sexual appetite and can screw a woman's brains out and dominate her in the bedroom which most women do want. Men who hate porn are the same types who usually hate sex and don't know what to do in the bedroom. Men just like to look at naked chicks sometimes and that is that. I can understand the concerns over child porn, violent porn and things of that nature but your average everday stuff that men like to look at is 100% healthy.

 

If a woman feels like her man is choosing porn over her then maybe she should take a look in the mirror and ask why an actual man prefers whacking off than being intimate with her. I like my Playboys but no way in hell would they ever compete with my wife.