USMCHokie Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 And yet my original question was never even addressed...how do I actually find good men? Late entry into this little sh*tshow... First of all, I find it interesting that buttnutter has been labeled a troll numerous times in this thread and subject to responses laced with condescending attitude... I understand that these forums are an avenue to give and receive advice, and many of us want to support those who ask questions and look for advice. Yet a fair number of members seem to associate "advice" with "blowing sunshine up someone's ass"...basically giving them what they want to hear...meanwhile, those who provide insightful but critical views are chastised for attacking another member seeking advice... Seriously, you have to grow some thicker skin and be accepting of advice and guidance...if you want advice, then take it...if you want someone to blow sunshine up your ass and make you feel better about yourself, then ask for that, or go to your friends... Everything that buttnutter has said has some level of truth and merit. I believe he has provided sound insight into the male psyche relating to your little situation...of course it's not what you want to hear...but it's up to you to decide what you want to do with this information...you can either heed the advice, figure out what's wrong, if anything, and take the steps to resolve the problems, or you can ignore it and accept any consequences... Now to address your original online dating question... I find it very hard to believe that women cannot be successful to some degree with online dating. The sheer numbers and male-to-female ratio are just staggering, and I have a pretty good idea of one of the primary causes of this perceived "lack of good men." When we browse through profiles online, our minds (well, our eyes...) tend to focus on the extremes of the spectrum. That is, we concentrate primarily on the most attractive people, but ALSO the least attractive people. When it comes to women looking for men, where the numbers of men are MUCH higher, this behaviorial pattern is even more pronounced. Also, "attractive" is not limited to physical looks, but also the other tangible qualities like education, career, and the such. That being said, we will then place all the most attractive people in the WANT category, while the least attractive people are automatically placed in the "ARE YOU KIDDING ME" category. Now what about the other ~90% of the population that's just average, neither very attractive or not attractive at all? Nothing. They are practically ignored and passed over. Not because they're necessarily unattractive, but because they aren't in the WANT category of the most attractive people. Women have limited time and effort, so they will focus their attention on those in the WANT category. But of course those in that category are the proverbial "superstars" in the online dating world and are most likely in the WANT categories for many women. This is where buttnutter's comments come into play. OP is divorced with two children. Of all the women who have "superstars" in their WANT category, how many do you think are divorced with two children? Unless the "superstars" specifically want a divorcee with children, it is very likely he will pass over women like OP. Now after she has been passed over enough times, OP will think that online dating is useless because she has failed with the "superstars." And guess what happens? She will dredge up that other group she focused on, the "ARE YOU KIDDING ME" men as "evidence" that all she gets are the ugly, maimed, and fat men. Yet somehow that HUGE group of above average, average, and below average men has somehow disappeared... Advice to OP: You'll have to play a more active role if you're to be successful with online dating. You'll also have to remove the tunnel vision and even take a look at some of those men who are "only above average" in your mind...
Chocolat Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 And yet my original question was never even addressed...how do I actually find good men? I think Buttnutter did address your question. You aren't going to find good men until you are a good woman. I don't mean that you do not have positive attributes -- you've indicated you do and there is no reason not to believe you. But your current relationship also speaks volumes about your ethics. I know you will reply that no one on the dating site knows this about you, but you would be surprised at much we reveal of characters without announcing it. You identified Buttnutter as someone with betrayal issues, for instance, even though he never said anything about this. You seem really flippant about that relationship and also stated that as long as no one has any STDs, you don't owe anyone information about your past. Ok... but as you've said, at your age, many people have been married, had kids, etc. A good man will want to be with a woman who is willing to share information about her past - not necessarily to judge her but to see what insights she has gained from past mistakes. Has she learned and grown enough so that histry will not repeat itself? In addition, many good men will consider honesty and transparency qualities they look for. Your first profile, as others have pointed out, contained some key words that are red flags for others -- bitter and generous are the two that come to mind. Reading between the lines, the sense I got is that you feel entitled. Your rewrite is better. The bottom line, though, is that once you attract a good man to your profile, you also need to deliver in person. And this is where Buttnutter has given you good advice (imo) about some things to think about.
Author polksaladannie Posted February 2, 2010 Author Posted February 2, 2010 Thanks to many of you. I have revamped my profile and am going to give meetup a shot. I did want to say something. Throughout the thread and IRL, I get the feeling that single mothers should just accept whoever comes their way, being grateful for any scrap of attention they get. Sorry, but I do not play by those rules. I desire a quality-and again, what is quality to me may not be quality to someone else-man and I refuse to let my status as a single mother deter me from that expectation.
greatgirlfriend Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Thanks to many of you. I have revamped my profile and am going to give meetup a shot. I did want to say something. Throughout the thread and IRL, I get the feeling that single mothers should just accept whoever comes their way, being grateful for any scrap of attention they get. Sorry, but I do not play by those rules. I desire a quality-and again, what is quality to me may not be quality to someone else-man and I refuse to let my status as a single mother deter me from that expectation. Don't worry, I have no kids, and they are saying I too should accept anything. By anything this means guys who had kids out of wedlock but never married the mother (I find this immoral), guys who don't think enough of themselves to stay in reasonable shape (not saying fit just not obese), guys who don't want to work and want a sugar mama, etc. The fact is I personally couldn't play stepmother to kids not mine. That's a fact. Not only is the exwife still in the picture, I might have to pay for the kids (to name one reason).
Author polksaladannie Posted February 2, 2010 Author Posted February 2, 2010 Don't worry, I have no kids, and they are saying I too should accept anything. By anything this means guys who had kids out of wedlock but never married the mother (I find this immoral), guys who don't think enough of themselves to stay in reasonable shape (not saying fit just not obese), guys who don't want to work and want a sugar mama, etc. The fact is I personally couldn't play stepmother to kids not mine. That's a fact. Not only is the exwife still in the picture, I might have to pay for the kids (to name one reason). Now of course if you were a man who did not want to be a stepfather or pay for kids who were not his own, everyone would be applauding and saying "Right on!"
greatgirlfriend Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Now of course if you were a man who did not want to be a stepfather or pay for kids who were not his own, everyone would be applauding and saying "Right on!" Exactly. There is a double standard for women versus men. For some reason it's not ok for us to date men with kids but ok in the reverse. What is never mentioned is how it can be awful to deal with men with kids. For one thing the exwife is still usually in the picture. Many times she wants more money if the second wife makes a lot (saw this happen to a friend). Often he'll spend more times with the kids than the girlfriend. I've dated guys with kids and never again. The only exception would be if he's widowed with kids or adopted as a single dad (I know a few guys like this).
boogieboy Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Exactly. There is a double standard for women versus men. For some reason it's not ok for us to date men with kids but ok in the reverse. What is never mentioned is how it can be awful to deal with men with kids. For one thing the exwife is still usually in the picture. Many times she wants more money if the second wife makes a lot (saw this happen to a friend). Often he'll spend more times with the kids than the girlfriend. I've dated guys with kids and never again. The only exception would be if he's widowed with kids or adopted as a single dad (I know a few guys like this). I pretty sure that no one ever advised you to lower your standards to men with kids when you have none. Youre just being overly dramatic and looking for inconsistencies. Besides, why are you here posting instead of going for the guy you want online or somewhere?
greatgirlfriend Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 I pretty sure that no one ever advised you to lower your standards to men with kids when you have none. Youre just being overly dramatic and looking for inconsistencies. Besides, why are you here posting instead of going for the guy you want online or somewhere? People here have stated that I'm being picky by not dating guys with kids. I have lowered my standards but can't deal with being a stepmom and certainly not with a psycho exwife.
sid3 Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Late entry into this little sh*tshow... First of all, I find it interesting that buttnutter has been labeled a troll numerous times in this thread and subject to responses laced with condescending attitude... I understand that these forums are an avenue to give and receive advice, and many of us want to support those who ask questions and look for advice. Yet a fair number of members seem to associate "advice" with "blowing sunshine up someone's ass"...basically giving them what they want to hear...meanwhile, those who provide insightful but critical views are chastised for attacking another member seeking advice... Seriously, you have to grow some thicker skin and be accepting of advice and guidance...if you want advice, then take it...if you want someone to blow sunshine up your ass and make you feel better about yourself, then ask for that, or go to your friends... Everything that buttnutter has said has some level of truth and merit. I believe he has provided sound insight into the male psyche relating to your little situation...of course it's not what you want to hear...but it's up to you to decide what you want to do with this information...you can either heed the advice, figure out what's wrong, if anything, and take the steps to resolve the problems, or you can ignore it and accept any consequences... Now to address your original online dating question... I find it very hard to believe that women cannot be successful to some degree with online dating. The sheer numbers and male-to-female ratio are just staggering, and I have a pretty good idea of one of the primary causes of this perceived "lack of good men." When we browse through profiles online, our minds (well, our eyes...) tend to focus on the extremes of the spectrum. That is, we concentrate primarily on the most attractive people, but ALSO the least attractive people. When it comes to women looking for men, where the numbers of men are MUCH higher, this behaviorial pattern is even more pronounced. Also, "attractive" is not limited to physical looks, but also the other tangible qualities like education, career, and the such. That being said, we will then place all the most attractive people in the WANT category, while the least attractive people are automatically placed in the "ARE YOU KIDDING ME" category. Now what about the other ~90% of the population that's just average, neither very attractive or not attractive at all? Nothing. They are practically ignored and passed over. Not because they're necessarily unattractive, but because they aren't in the WANT category of the most attractive people. Women have limited time and effort, so they will focus their attention on those in the WANT category. But of course those in that category are the proverbial "superstars" in the online dating world and are most likely in the WANT categories for many women. This is where buttnutter's comments come into play. OP is divorced with two children. Of all the women who have "superstars" in their WANT category, how many do you think are divorced with two children? Unless the "superstars" specifically want a divorcee with children, it is very likely he will pass over women like OP. Now after she has been passed over enough times, OP will think that online dating is useless because she has failed with the "superstars." And guess what happens? She will dredge up that other group she focused on, the "ARE YOU KIDDING ME" men as "evidence" that all she gets are the ugly, maimed, and fat men. Yet somehow that HUGE group of above average, average, and below average men has somehow disappeared... Advice to OP: You'll have to play a more active role if you're to be successful with online dating. You'll also have to remove the tunnel vision and even take a look at some of those men who are "only above average" in your mind... That's the kind of advice and insight people often charge for. Spot on.
sid3 Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) I don't blame you greatGF, if kids aren't what you consider acceptable, thats completely within reason. Pyscho ex whether it be xw or xgf, it's a crap shoot Edited February 2, 2010 by sid3 wrong poster
greatgirlfriend Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Late entry into this little sh*tshow... First of all, I find it interesting that buttnutter has been labeled a troll numerous times in this thread and subject to responses laced with condescending attitude... I understand that these forums are an avenue to give and receive advice, and many of us want to support those who ask questions and look for advice. Yet a fair number of members seem to associate "advice" with "blowing sunshine up someone's ass"...basically giving them what they want to hear...meanwhile, those who provide insightful but critical views are chastised for attacking another member seeking advice... Seriously, you have to grow some thicker skin and be accepting of advice and guidance...if you want advice, then take it...if you want someone to blow sunshine up your ass and make you feel better about yourself, then ask for that, or go to your friends... Everything that buttnutter has said has some level of truth and merit. I believe he has provided sound insight into the male psyche relating to your little situation...of course it's not what you want to hear...but it's up to you to decide what you want to do with this information...you can either heed the advice, figure out what's wrong, if anything, and take the steps to resolve the problems, or you can ignore it and accept any consequences... Now to address your original online dating question... I find it very hard to believe that women cannot be successful to some degree with online dating. The sheer numbers and male-to-female ratio are just staggering, and I have a pretty good idea of one of the primary causes of this perceived "lack of good men." When we browse through profiles online, our minds (well, our eyes...) tend to focus on the extremes of the spectrum. That is, we concentrate primarily on the most attractive people, but ALSO the least attractive people. When it comes to women looking for men, where the numbers of men are MUCH higher, this behaviorial pattern is even more pronounced. Also, "attractive" is not limited to physical looks, but also the other tangible qualities like education, career, and the such. That being said, we will then place all the most attractive people in the WANT category, while the least attractive people are automatically placed in the "ARE YOU KIDDING ME" category. Now what about the other ~90% of the population that's just average, neither very attractive or not attractive at all? Nothing. They are practically ignored and passed over. Not because they're necessarily unattractive, but because they aren't in the WANT category of the most attractive people. Women have limited time and effort, so they will focus their attention on those in the WANT category. But of course those in that category are the proverbial "superstars" in the online dating world and are most likely in the WANT categories for many women. This is where buttnutter's comments come into play. OP is divorced with two children. Of all the women who have "superstars" in their WANT category, how many do you think are divorced with two children? Unless the "superstars" specifically want a divorcee with children, it is very likely he will pass over women like OP. Now after she has been passed over enough times, OP will think that online dating is useless because she has failed with the "superstars." And guess what happens? She will dredge up that other group she focused on, the "ARE YOU KIDDING ME" men as "evidence" that all she gets are the ugly, maimed, and fat men. Yet somehow that HUGE group of above average, average, and below average men has somehow disappeared... Advice to OP: You'll have to play a more active role if you're to be successful with online dating. You'll also have to remove the tunnel vision and even take a look at some of those men who are "only above average" in your mind... I know this isn't aimed at me, but I wanted to mention something. When I did online dating I didn't always pick the hot guys. I don't care about that though I am pretty. I mostly look at how decent they are. If they look like normal guys I'll consider it. The guy I like now is no cutie by any standard. Oh sure, I want the hot guys, but so does every women and many of these guys want the cute 25 year old blonde. I want the guys who aren't obese and don't carry baggae (kids, exwives, etc). I don't even care if he has a good job as long as he has a job.
greatgirlfriend Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 I don't blame you greatGF, if kids aren't what you consider acceptable, thats completely within reason. Pyscho ex whether it be xw or xgf, it's a crap shoot I could date a widower or a guy who adopted kids (I know someone like this). It's just the whole psycho ex that is why. In the past I dated a few guys with exwives and kids and the exwives were psycho.
USMCHokie Posted February 3, 2010 Posted February 3, 2010 I know this isn't aimed at me, but I wanted to mention something. When I did online dating I didn't always pick the hot guys. I don't care about that though I am pretty. I mostly look at how decent they are. If they look like normal guys I'll consider it. The guy I like now is no cutie by any standard. Oh sure, I want the hot guys, but so does every women and many of these guys want the cute 25 year old blonde. I want the guys who aren't obese and don't carry baggae (kids, exwives, etc). I don't even care if he has a good job as long as he has a job. It was directed primarily at OP. And what you told me is quite consistent with what I stated in my post. What I described in my post is the thought process when you're actually looking through profiles, not necessarily who you pick to date. You separated the population of possible profiles into the "hot guys" and those who are "obese and don't carry baggage", just as I had described. Of course you may have "considered" more average guys, that's exactly all you did. Consider. Those average guys hardly got you excited and wanting to know more about them and see if they'd be a match for you. It sounds more like you were willing to settle on these average guys because the superstars weren't interested. There is absolutely no shame in thinking this way, and it's interesting you got a little defensive about it. It doesn't make you a bad person. It's human nature for us to want the best for ourselves and avoid the worst. Natural selection at its best.
greatgirlfriend Posted February 3, 2010 Posted February 3, 2010 It was directed primarily at OP. And what you told me is quite consistent with what I stated in my post. What I described in my post is the thought process when you're actually looking through profiles, not necessarily who you pick to date. You separated the population of possible profiles into the "hot guys" and those who are "obese and don't carry baggage", just as I had described. Of course you may have "considered" more average guys, that's exactly all you did. Consider. Those average guys hardly got you excited and wanting to know more about them and see if they'd be a match for you. It sounds more like you were willing to settle on these average guys because the superstars weren't interested. There is absolutely no shame in thinking this way, and it's interesting you got a little defensive about it. It doesn't make you a bad person. It's human nature for us to want the best for ourselves and avoid the worst. Natural selection at its best. No, the thing I judged the guys on the most is where they were located. If they were close by (and most of these guys were average) then I chatted with them. Then I went from there and picked guys who had the same interests. I narrowed it down and ended up meeting these guys (none were hot) but there was nothing there. Not really looks, but they just weren't my type. One guy for instance admitted he was an alcoholic and bi polar. I can't handle that. Another guy let it slip he was married.
Septum Posted February 3, 2010 Posted February 3, 2010 I too seek a companion. Nothing too much. Just a 19-23 year old woman who is mature and doesn't drink/smoke or party often. I like plain girls who look at life in a positive way. That's all. I am not seeking much. Please let me know if you're interested in me.
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