jw90063 Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 While, it seems many, many bad boy types get more dates, in the long run they are more likely going to finish last as far as settling down, as they find themselves single in their late 30's etc, with no wife and kids. Even if they get married or find themselves a wife, more than likely a divorce is going to occur at some point.
CaliGuy Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 And the facts to support this are where? I'm very curious as to how you know this? Yes.. I really believe that this is very true. If your nice it's because you want to be nice it's a part of the persons character. Ok so the problem is people are not understand something here. A "nice guy" is not the same as a "good man". There is a huge difference. When people refer to "nice guy" they mean DOOR MAT nice guy. DOOR MAT NICE GUY: A guy who does "nice" things hoping for something in return (love, respect, affection, gifts). He does these nice things as a covert contract meaning he doesn't tell the person that the reason he is doing these nice things is because he wants something back. When he doesn't get something he expected back, he gets mean and nasty (passive/aggressive). DOOR MAT Nice guys seek the approval of others. They relish and deeply desire it. They LIVE for others approval. They are not confident. They are similar to "jerks/bad boys" in the sense they both are insecure, they just display it different ways. GOOD MEN on the other hand are well balanced. They do good things because they want to with no expectation of return. They seek approval from within. They are CONFIDENT and SECURE in themselves. They walk around with a quiet air of confidence. GOOD MEN are what women really mean when they say they want a NICE GUY. NICE GUYS are men who always wonder why they LOSE with women because they THINK they are GOOD MEN -- but the are FAR, FAR from it. Got it?
alphamale Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 While, it seems many, many bad boy types get more dates, in the long run they are more likely going to finish last as far as settling down, as they find themselves single in their late 30's etc, with no wife and kids. actually for men being older is a plus in the dating scene and having no kids is also a plus in the dating scene. for most men there are many more women available in the older age range
Meaplus3 Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 Ok so the problem is people are not understand something here. A "nice guy" is not the same as a "good man". There is a huge difference. When people refer to "nice guy" they mean DOOR MAT nice guy. DOOR MAT NICE GUY: A guy who does "nice" things hoping for something in return (love, respect, affection, gifts). He does these nice things as a covert contract meaning he doesn't tell the person that the reason he is doing these nice things is because he wants something back. When he doesn't get something he expected back, he gets mean and nasty (passive/aggressive). DOOR MAT Nice guys seek the approval of others. They relish and deeply desire it. They LIVE for others approval. They are not confident. They are similar to "jerks/bad boys" in the sense they both are insecure, they just display it different ways. GOOD MEN on the other hand are well balanced. They do good things because they want to with no expectation of return. They seek approval from within. They are CONFIDENT and SECURE in themselves. They walk around with a quiet air of confidence. GOOD MEN are what women really mean when they say they want a NICE GUY. NICE GUYS are men who always wonder why they LOSE with women because they THINK they are GOOD MEN -- but the are FAR, FAR from it. Got it? Well, when you put it that way.... I'll skip the doormat. I see what your saying. And the way you have put this makes such good sense. Thank you. Mea:)
jw90063 Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 actually for men being older is a plus in the dating scene and having no kids is also a plus in the dating scene. for most men there are many more women available in the older age range Doubtful...
BG1985 Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 And the facts to support this are where? I'm very curious as to how you know this? I agree. Yes.. I really believe that this is very true. If your nice it's because you want to be nice it's a part of the persons character. A lot of these people are putting on a show. I've seen too many of my "nice" friends be this way. When they get passed over for another guy, they always complain saying, "I've always done the right thing. I've always followed the rules. I've been nice, blah blah blah!" They hold a grudge when things don't go their way. They hold grudges against these girls who passed them over and the guys they chose. They say the guy either manipulated her or that she's screwed up in the head. They feel entitled to the affections of every girl they know. Have you seen posts from Open GL and betamanlet? These "nice guys" are two of the most condescending posters on this forum. They feel that women are the scum of the earth because they can't get a date. They are self-loathing individuals. Open GL wants to take steroids and do some bone-stretching procedure to make himself taller. Betamanlet constantly complains about how women keep sending Scott Peterson love letters in prison. He then says it's proof that women are screwed up and would prefer to date a killer rather than a nice, beta male. A lot of people with such scathing views on others consider themselves to be modest!
Author Hot Carl Posted February 2, 2010 Author Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) I just wish someone would get this down in clear terms that we all can agree on. Once and for all. I don't feel like anyone ever really gets to the heart of the misconceptions people seem to have on this topic. For instance, what really is a nice guy? Anyone care to just lay it out for the rest of us? Maybe you could refer us all to a book or something? Edited February 2, 2010 by Hot Carl
burning 4 revenge Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 I just wish someone would get this down in clear terms that we all can agree on. Once and for all. I don't feel like anyone ever really gets to the heart of the misconceptions people seem to have on this topic. For instance, what really is a nice guy? Anyone care to just lay it out for the rest of us? Maybe you could refer us all to a book or something? I'm a nice guy
BG1985 Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 A nice guy is an insecure guy who believes that all women should fall in love with him because he is at their beck and call, ready to take care of whatever needs they may or may not have. He then complains when these girls are not attracted to him and he accuses them of being immature and shallow. He then thinks that every single guy who is more successful than him with women is a jerk. He blames everyone but himself and says that nice guys never get laid/a relationship when there is evidence to the contrary that guys who are nice have such abilities.
burning 4 revenge Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Ok so the problem is people are not understand something here. A "nice guy" is not the same as a "good man". There is a huge difference. When people refer to "nice guy" they mean DOOR MAT nice guy. DOOR MAT NICE GUY: A guy who does "nice" things hoping for something in return (love, respect, affection, gifts). He does these nice things as a covert contract meaning he doesn't tell the person that the reason he is doing these nice things is because he wants something back. When he doesn't get something he expected back, he gets mean and nasty (passive/aggressive). DOOR MAT Nice guys seek the approval of others. They relish and deeply desire it. They LIVE for others approval. They are not confident. They are similar to "jerks/bad boys" in the sense they both are insecure, they just display it different ways. GOOD MEN on the other hand are well balanced. They do good things because they want to with no expectation of return. They seek approval from within. They are CONFIDENT and SECURE in themselves. They walk around with a quiet air of confidence. GOOD MEN are what women really mean when they say they want a NICE GUY. NICE GUYS are men who always wonder why they LOSE with women because they THINK they are GOOD MEN -- but the are FAR, FAR from it. Got it? Maybe you could publish some kind of guide with common sense wisdom or something along those lines..have stuff about balanced men who are confident and secure in themselves and all of that stuff
Meaplus3 Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 I just wish someone would get this down in clear terms that we all can agree on. Once and for all. I don't feel like anyone ever really gets to the heart of the misconceptions people seem to have on this topic. For instance, what really is a nice guy? Anyone care to just lay it out for the rest of us? Maybe you could refer us all to a book or something? Ok. I'll give you my OP of what a nice guy is. The nice guy in my OP, has very healthy self esteem, does not sit around worrying about how the rest of the world sees him. He's polite, knows how to treat all people in a fair manner with out beign judgemental and most of all he is simply content.. as he views the world in a very positive way. Oh he is also forgiving and does not play games. This is simply my personal take on the question. Mea:)
Woggle Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 While, it seems many, many bad boy types get more dates, in the long run they are more likely going to finish last as far as settling down, as they find themselves single in their late 30's etc, with no wife and kids. Even if they get married or find themselves a wife, more than likely a divorce is going to occur at some point. And the nice guys find themselves busting their ass to provide a better life for their family while their wives cheat on them left and right and eventually divorce them. Beig a commited player if a man can pull it off is the best route.
paddington bear Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 And the nice guys find themselves busting their ass to provide a better life for their family while their wives cheat on them left and right and eventually divorce them. Beig a commited player if a man can pull it off is the best route. Best route for what? Keeping a marriage together? Not getting hurt? I know one committed player and he's now lonely and alone and has realised that just using women and never engaging in any true emotions has not only hurt the women he's played, but worst of all, himself. At some point players get older, at some point they realise all their friends have found someone to love, at some point they realise that they are alone, no longer young and attractive and desireable and can't play any more. doormat....nice but won't be walked over...suspicious of women...heartless player That's basically the graph. If you are too nice people will walk all over you and suck you dry. It's not about being 'not nice', it's about simply having some boundaries and respect for yourself. I know a nice girl who met a nice guy. She said he was so nice, so accommodating that she found herself treating him badly because he'd put up with any old behaviour or demands and she lost respect for him and hated what she'd turned into. Whereas a simple 'no' from him every now and then, or not running around like a slave, catering to her every whim, keeps that dynamic in check. Not being a nice guy means simply having some self-respect, it does not mean that you need to swing from one end of the spectrum to the other, from being a doormat into being a player, there's a balance and it's somewhere in the middle of the two.
Woggle Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Best route for what? Keeping a marriage together? Not getting hurt? I know one committed player and he's now lonely and alone and has realised that just using women and never engaging in any true emotions has not only hurt the women he's played, but worst of all, himself. At some point players get older, at some point they realise all their friends have found someone to love, at some point they realise that they are alone, no longer young and attractive and desireable and can't play any more. doormat....nice but won't be walked over...suspicious of women...heartless player That's basically the graph. If you are too nice people will walk all over you and suck you dry. It's not about being 'not nice', it's about simply having some boundaries and respect for yourself. I know a nice girl who met a nice guy. She said he was so nice, so accommodating that she found herself treating him badly because he'd put up with any old behaviour or demands and she lost respect for him and hated what she'd turned into. Whereas a simple 'no' from him every now and then, or not running around like a slave, catering to her every whim, keeps that dynamic in check. Not being a nice guy means simply having some self-respect, it does not mean that you need to swing from one end of the spectrum to the other, from being a doormat into being a player, there's a balance and it's somewhere in the middle of the two. How many women do you know who are married to commited and loving men are actually happy and attracted to these men? You say that being a player is a lonely life but what is more lonely than being married to a woman that despises you and has no attraction left for you at all.
paddington bear Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 How many women do you know who are married to commited and loving men are actually happy and attracted to these men? You say that being a player is a lonely life but what is more lonely than being married to a woman that despises you and has no attraction left for you at all. Well then get a divorce I say. If the man sees that the women he's married to is not happy. If the man is not happy why on earth would you stay together, one or both parties made a wrong choice, that's all. I do know many people like you describe. One being a stunning woman and I mean stunning - she had every man running after her when she was single and despite being stunning looking she wanted to fall in love, and the players played her badly and she got repeatedly hurt. She married a man that is way below her in the looks department, but the key thing is, he adores her, stays with her, continues to love her doesn't make her doubt his affections and that's why this not so good-looking guy got a really attractive woman, because he didn't treat her like something to be used, dropped and picked up depending on his mood. It's not just about women wanting bad boys. For me I think when I was in my 20's I was totally naive about men. I believed the players when they told me they loved me, I hung around waiting for them to call and wondered what I'd done wrong. I simply didn't realise that they were players, I thought they were nice guys because they presented themselves as such, but then did the disappearing act, all over you one minute, cold and distant the next and so on. So it's not like when a woman grows up a bit that she suddenly starts noticing the nice guys, it's that you are no longer so naive and can recognise when you're getting played and sort out the genuine nice guys from the players disguised as nice guys.
Woggle Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Well then get a divorce I say. If the man sees that the women he's married to is not happy. If the man is not happy why on earth would you stay together, one or both parties made a wrong choice, that's all. I do know many people like you describe. One being a stunning woman and I mean stunning - she had every man running after her when she was single and despite being stunning looking she wanted to fall in love, and the players played her badly and she got repeatedly hurt. She married a man that is way below her in the looks department, but the key thing is, he adores her, stays with her, continues to love her doesn't make her doubt his affections and that's why this not so good-looking guy got a really attractive woman, because he didn't treat her like something to be used, dropped and picked up depending on his mood. It's not just about women wanting bad boys. For me I think when I was in my 20's I was totally naive about men. I believed the players when they told me they loved me, I hung around waiting for them to call and wondered what I'd done wrong. I simply didn't realise that they were players, I thought they were nice guys because they presented themselves as such, but then did the disappearing act, all over you one minute, cold and distant the next and so on. So it's not like when a woman grows up a bit that she suddenly starts noticing the nice guys, it's that you are no longer so naive and can recognise when you're getting played and sort out the genuine nice guys from the players disguised as nice guys. Are you saying that this woman loves and is attracted to this man or that she is not attracted to him? I am not quite sure what you are saying. If it os the former then good for her but I honestly feel that cases like this are the exception. Most of my friends who are loving and commited husbands have wives that treat them like garbage and the players have women crawling all over them.
paddington bear Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Are you saying that this woman loves and is attracted to this man or that she is not attracted to him? I am not quite sure what you are saying. If it os the former then good for her but I honestly feel that cases like this are the exception. Most of my friends who are loving and commited husbands have wives that treat them like garbage and the players have women crawling all over them. No she adores him, absolutely adores him. I've never seen her behave like this with any man before. The thing you have to remember is the effect that being played has on women, they become wary and suspicious of men. I know for me it's made me very wary and insecure, so when you actually find someone who means what they say, who actually does love you for who you are it would be such a relief to relax into simply being genuinely loved and to finally let all those guards down. I won't deny that there are men in committed relationships with women treating them like garbage. I do know a lot of happy relationships with nice guys who treat their women like queens and within that dynamic the men are are equally treated with love and respect and both parties are happy. However, as asked in another thread a while ago 'why are most men in LTR's with dominant, controlling women'? I've asked myself that as well, it seems to be the case a lot of the time. I have one former friend whose wife treats him like her personal slave, humiliates him in public, is a total drama queen, treats him like a stupid child who needs her to control every aspect of his life and is generally a complete pain in the ass. He did on many occassions in the past tell me that he was miserable...and yet he stays, because on some level he must want to be treated like crap. That's what it boils down to IME, either you don't think that you deserve any better or that you secretly enjoy being bossed around, otherwise why do that to yourself, why stay with someone who clearly doens't love you. Actions speak louder than words and all of that. I think if a genuinely decent guy ends up with a bossy woman who wears the pants possibly what happens is that he gets broken down by her over time and turns from being decent and nice into being merely weak, has possibly tried over and over to make her happy, still gets cold treatment, ignored, humiliated, whatever and eventually becomes too weak to stand up for himself, too weak to demand that he gets treated with love and respect and just shrugs his shoulders and decides that this is his life and he's made his bed and so he's going to lie in it. Or perhaps that dynamic keeps the relationship fresh in the man's mind, you are forever in that 'only recently met' mode 'does she like me or not? Have I made her happy or not?' even though you are married for years. Her coldness and bad treatment means that when she periodically grants you a kind word or action, you get that sense of relief and then back to the cycle of being treated like crap, but that's exciting in a way, when is she going to be nice to me again? Dunno, that's all just speculation. I too have stayed in a relationship with a man who didn't treat me too well, but I loved him and that was the problem. What I've realised now is that just because you love someone doesn't mean you have to stay, sure makes it harder to leave, but loving someone does not alter the fact that you are not loved in return and if that is the case, you have to make some hard and painful decisions.
Woggle Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Many of these women are taught that they deserve this or they can't find anything better plus men in our culture are made to feel guilty for wanting a woman that treats us well. If we want that then we want a doormat stepford wife according to some people. Many men also have kids with these woman and they can make it a complete nightmare for a man trying to be a father to his children if they split up. It is good that your friend can appreciate this man. Normally these women end up throwing all their rage at these nice guys and they have to pay the price for what the players did.
Itzo Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Men who are nice to women, are NICE because they are just offering sex. If a guy says, "You look great," what he really means is that "Wow you really look great, would you like some dick?" So women, keep this in mind.
purgatori Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 Yes, they probably do finish last. I wrote an article on this very topic over at my blog [after-gradiva(dot)blogspot(dot)com] for anyone who is interested.
CaliGuy Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 Maybe you could publish some kind of guide with common sense wisdom or something along those lines..have stuff about balanced men who are confident and secure in themselves and all of that stuff Don't have to, it's already out there: "No More Mr. Nice Guy" (Glover). Amazon dot com has it for like $10. It's the best $10 any door mat nice guy can spend!
Abbath Posted February 7, 2010 Posted February 7, 2010 I have 0 success with women but that's because I'm a boring, ugly ******* with nothing to be confident about, got nothing to do with being nice. It amazes me that people still use the same tired ass argument to justify the fact that they're socially inept. Your personality may well exhibit Ghandi- like niceness but it won't amount to anything if you don't know how to interact with women or have the social skills required to navigate the labyrinth of subtleties that is the modern mating dance, or "dating" if you want to call it that. Those social skills are much more important that simple straight forward amiability, and it's why guys who are genuine dicks have so much more success with women than the supposedly "nice guys." Most of these idiots are only "nice" insofar as they are, in fact, hopelessly ignorant of how to relate to a woman on any real level, so they try to get potential targets into bed by the use of endless flattery. Most women can see right through the facade. My advice to the "nice guys": stop crying and blaming females for your own inadequacies.
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