When The MM Leaves For the OW....

[2sure]

Absolutely, hindsight is the only true vision and Ive got plenty of that....but no - I could tell without that, obviously because at the time I had none. I could tell because I've always kind of been one to face reality for what it is good and bad. I dont think its so much cynical as...

 

Its always been more important to me to know exactly where I stand.

[Spark1111]

Of course hind sight is 20/20, of that Im sure.

 

But I guess we recognize an exit affair when the MW/MM exits the marriage pretty quickly, with or without the OM/OW.

 

Their actions tell it all.

 

And I am only speculating here, but I would imagine there is less angst, guilt and confusion regarding the marriage AND the affair relationship; more surety and decisiveness in their actions.

 

They leave the marriage.

 

Hell, most likely they have one foot out the door BEFORE they crash into the AP, IMO.

 

Maybe this could help OW/OM; if you are in a committed relationship where there is a lot of guilt, anxiety, talks of doing the right thing for the BS, vacillating back and forth.....perhaps you are NOT in the exit affair you hoped for.

[OWoman]

I dont know what to tell you, I have no special abilities...but when I was seeing married men, I would specifically avoid affairs with those who seemed like they were looking to get out of their marriage. And I could tell, yes. Even those who I did have affairs with that became all lovey dovey, what if, etc etc...I knew they were just talking, not seriously considering leaving. If I knew the difference, it just cant be that hard.

 

As did I. I wouldn't touch a man who looked like he wanted to leave. But, THOSE ARE NOT THE ONLY MM WHO DO LEAVE.

 

I have never had an A with a MM that wanted an A, and I would spend a long time doing homework on anyone I considered a possibility before I'd proposition them. Being happily M - ie, no consideration of their leaving their M - was an absolute precondition for me. That said - it was no guarantee. Even the most happily married, never-considered-an-A, wholly-committed-to-the M type of MM still could - and some did - leave the M during / because of the A. They hadn't been looking to get out. They hadn't gone into an A with a view to leaving their M. That was never on their agenda... at the outset. BUT THEY CHANGED THEIR MINDS!

 

Having been in love, committed to the M, dutiful H and father, etc - they did an about-turn and left. If there was any way of predicting that, I would have, believe me. I'm not big on wasting my time.

[Spark1111]

NID - if I understand your question - I agree with you I think...

 

Are you really saying if they are done working on the marriage then the marriage should end before they leave. You seem to be questioning why people who arent finished with their marriages (by definition as they are not divorced) are looking for other companionship or feeding their attraction to others instead of ending the marriage and working out their issues and then looking for a new partner.

 

 

I agree in many cases you are correct. Not all but many. The boards are littered with stories of he left we are going to be together but oh no he isnt sure or he may go back, or hes gone back, or he doesnt know what he wants.

 

Its very sad for all involved when that happens. In a majority of cases it seems that a man who starts an affair isnt really looking to leave, if he does and doesnt work on his issues, or doesnt take a break from the OW and really try to work out his issues or repair his marriage, it stands less of a chance of working out between the OW and the MM. As you say he brings his issues with him.

 

Great point! And I agree resentment is a greater marriage killer than infidelity.

 

I also agree, wherever you go....there you are no matter what man or woman is holding your hand or sleeping in your bed.

 

I also believe men are very goal oriented and like to "fix it and fast." If they believe it is unfixable, the do grow complacent or resigned or resentful and then look for another, which ultimately, can be so unfair to the "other."

[OWoman]

But I guess we recognize an exit affair when the MW/MM exits the marriage pretty quickly, with or without the OM/OW.

 

How "quickly" is quickly?

 

With my H, we initially both just wanted some light distraction on the side. But, over time, that changed. After a few years, we decided we wanted something else. At which point we both actioned that, and landed up together. Does that make it an "exit A"?

 

A former colleague of mine worked all the hours of the day because he didn't like to be at home. His W was a pretty nasty piece of work, but he was a nice guy and didn't like conflict, so he'd simply stay away. At some point he got carried away with someone from another department, left both women and his job and started afresh. I'd call that an "exit A" even though it was more of a ONS than really an A....

 

Is everyone meaning the same thing by "exit A"? Do MMs leave for As that are not "exit As"?

 

Hell, most likely they have one foot out the door BEFORE they crash into the AP, IMO.

 

I selected only MMs who absolutely did not meet this criterion. But still, some left....

 

Maybe this could help OW/OM; if you are in a committed relationship where there is a lot of guilt, anxiety, talks of doing the right thing for the BS, vacillating back and forth.....perhaps you are NOT in the exit affair you hoped for.

 

Then again - some guys do go through all of that - and still leave (but take a long time doing so, because of all the guilt, etc).

[Fallen Angel]

Of course hind sight is 20/20, of that Im sure.

 

But I guess we recognize an exit affair when the MW/MM exits the marriage pretty quickly, with or without the OM/OW.

 

Their actions tell it all.

 

And I am only speculating here, but I would imagine there is less angst, guilt and confusion regarding the marriage AND the affair relationship; more surety and decisiveness in their actions.

 

They leave the marriage.

 

Hell, most likely they have one foot out the door BEFORE they crash into the AP, IMO.

 

Maybe this could help OW/OM; if you are in a committed relationship where there is a lot of guilt, anxiety, talks of doing the right thing for the BS, vacillating back and forth.....perhaps you are NOT in the exit affair you hoped for.

 

Or perhaps he has already got it in his head that he is obligated to stay in the marriage for a certain length of time and when that particualr date comes and goes he feels he will be free then to leave. And during the time between the time he came to that decision and the "date" he has set in his mind, he meets a woman, falls in love, and starts and maintains an affair with her. But he doesn't leave the marriage pretty quickly, because he has already come to terms with the fact that he plans on sticking it out until a certain time. It is not that he has not made a decision, he has, and he is sticking to it. But during the affair he doesn't experience a lot of guilt or anxiety, because he already has a plan that he is following, he just happened to meet his new love before he had planned to.

[OWoman]

My understanding of an "exit A" is that the MM was looking to leave the M anyway - so it has everything to do with the MM and the M, and nothing to do with the OW or the A... so there'd be LESS chance of an exit A working out in the long-term than a different kind of A where the MM left IN ORDER TO BE WITH THE OW.

[Brokenlady]

But I guess we recognize an exit affair when the MW/MM exits the marriage pretty quickly, with or without the OM/OW.

 

Their actions tell it all.

 

And I am only speculating here, but I would imagine there is less angst, guilt and confusion regarding the marriage AND the affair relationship; more surety and decisiveness in their actions.

 

They leave the marriage.

 

Hell, most likely they have one foot out the door BEFORE they crash into the AP, IMO.

 

Maybe this could help OW/OM; if you are in a committed relationship where there is a lot of guilt, anxiety, talks of doing the right thing for the BS, vacillating back and forth.....perhaps you are NOT in the exit affair you hoped for.

 

Well, define quickly. It takes some time for a person to get from "thought" of leaving to having one foot out the door. Some MM leave (as in my case) after a few years, rather than just a few months. Had I run into him at a later time, maybe his exit would have seemed more quick. So if I am an OW in a 1 year affair, I have no way of reliably predicting whether he'll leave in another year, or never. I think that's why you see so many threads about how much time should an OW allow before giving up on a MM.

 

And if you've read my threads, his actions were also anything but decisive. Everyone moves a different pace. It just so happend that his pace was not compatible with my needs.

 

xDM would have argued that I should have gained confidence from his glacially slow pace. (That I would know he thought long and hard and therefore was theoretically more sure of his decision, and less likely to reverse.) Now, this turned out to nonsense, because despite his slow movement, every other month he told me in tears he felt he had to go back for his kids (though he never actually did). And, as we've all seen from IMTK's thread, quick movement sometimes leads to quick reversal.

 

My point is that I'm not sure it's possible to say there is a particular "type" of MM who can be counted on by OW to leave.

[2sure]

My point is that I'm not sure it's possible to say there is a particular "type" of MM who can be counted on by OW to leave.

 

Agreed and well said. Thats the bottom line. There really isnt a type of course, and none you can count on anyway.

 

No way to truly know where you stand.

[Brokenlady]

My understanding of an "exit A" is that the MM was looking to leave the M anyway - so it has everything to do with the MM and the M, and nothing to do with the OW or the A... so there'd be LESS chance of an exit A working out in the long-term than a different kind of A where the MM left IN ORDER TO BE WITH THE OW.

 

Well, one could argue that leaving "for the OW" creates problems - the MM can come to blame or resent the OW for the demise of the M, and I think leaving for another adds tremendous weight to the guilt burden the leaving spouse has. Even in being happy together with the OP, the WS is reminded of the spouse he/she left who is sad and alone. Also, as an OW I would have felt much more secure if xDM had left simply bc the M was bad. (He said - in no uncertain terms - that he left "for me", in part because the M was bad, but "for me"). Had he left only because the marriage was bad, it would have made him less likely to want to return and if he did return, I wouldn't have felt the need to take it personally since it was never about me.

 

I tend to think long-term R's work out better if the WS leaves for the merits of the M, rather than for the OW.

[NoIDidn't]

I also believe men are very goal oriented and like to "fix it and fast." If they believe it is unfixable, the do grow complacent or resigned or resentful and then look for another, which ultimately, can be so unfair to the "other."

 

Even the former MM I quote here would agree with this. They felt it was unfair to their next relationship that they didn't "fix" enough stuff before getting into them.

 

Good point!

[Got it]

Its been said here that the OW can't win in the affair or out of it when the MM leaves for her.

 

I can't claim to answer for all posters, but for me, its not about the OW. Its about the MM. It just comes across as if he didn't really try to save his marriage or put any real work into it. Having the affair is the first sign of him not really working on it anymore.

 

This is my opinion. I don't think anyone hates to see an OW "get her man". Its just that "her man" didn't seem to do any real work on fixing his "issues".

 

I know that there ARE some posters that do hate to see an OW "get her man", but I am not one of them.

 

Anyone else want to chime in?

 

I guess it comes down to each individual. I think it is quite an assumption to say that the MM didn't try to save his marriage or put any real work into. Each case is different but there are many that do try and turn things around for years before an affair, i.e. exit affair.

 

I don't feel that the best in all circumstances is "save the marriage". A lot of the time the marriage is in its death throes long before the affair starts.

 

Ideally everyone will work on the marriage, turning over all stones and putting in 100% effort before divorcing. Just as everyone will always prioritize their marriage, invest in the relationship, and work to keep it their top priority. That they will be proactive on dealing with issues, they will understand their boundaries, their issues, and have a clear awareness of themselves. Each party will choose to not neglect their spouse, satisfy both parties sexually, and not coast through things. They will always be respectful of each other's uniqueness, worth, and love them for who they are.

[Got it]

I would also question what one means by quick for an exit affair.

 

My affair was an exit affair and I left in 6 weeks. I would say that sMM was an exit affair but he didn't leave for a year. It was due to financial needs but he was checked out since her affair some years prior.

[bentnotbroken]

I guess it comes down to each individual. I think it is quite an assumption to say that the MM didn't try to save his marriage or put any real work into. Each case is different but there are many that do try and turn things around for years before an affair, i.e. exit affair.

 

I don't feel that the best in all circumstances is "save the marriage". A lot of the time the marriage is in its death throes long before the affair starts.

 

Ideally everyone will work on the marriage, turning over all stones and putting in 100% effort before divorcing. Just as everyone will always prioritize their marriage, invest in the relationship, and work to keep it their top priority. That they will be proactive on dealing with issues, they will understand their boundaries, their issues, and have a clear awareness of themselves. Each party will choose to not neglect their spouse, satisfy both parties sexually, and not coast through things. They will always be respectful of each other's uniqueness, worth, and love them for who they are.

 

 

Agreed. And ideally people wouldn't get involved with married people...ideally.

[NoIDidn't]

Ideally everyone will work on the marriage, turning over all stones and putting in 100% effort before divorcing. Just as everyone will always prioritize their marriage, invest in the relationship, and work to keep it their top priority. That they will be proactive on dealing with issues, they will understand their boundaries, their issues, and have a clear awareness of themselves. Each party will choose to not neglect their spouse, satisfy both parties sexually, and not coast through things. They will always be respectful of each other's uniqueness, worth, and love them for who they are.

 

Do notice in the bolded that you typed "before divorcing". I agree.

 

While I have been blasted for supposed assumptions on my part, its interesting the assumptions being made on my behalf. I never said that I think MM working on his marriage would have saved it.

 

All marriages can't be saved. All marriages shouldn't be saved. But sometimes that can't be known until all avenues are exhausted.

 

But like you say, it would be ideal to work out issues before cheating/leaving, but things don't always work out that way IRL.

[Got it]

Also I wanted to say that no one should leave for someone else! That is just a recipe for disaster. One should leave because they are ready to put the other relationship to bed and not because grass looking greener, having a safety net, etc.

 

Life is too short for regrets and the above is set up for many of them.

[jennie-jennie]

In my case my MM did not realize there even WAS a problem in his marriage until he fell in love with me. His attempt at NC last fall was an expression of his sincere wish to work on his marriage. Instead the NC resulted in him realizing that he was not able to work on his marriage while still emotionally tied to me. It also made him look deeper within what HE needs himself to be happy.

 

It is a catch 22 where my MM now knows what he should have talked with his wife about before reaching outside the marriage for intimacy.

 

Through the intimacy he and I have and have had, he has come to an understanding about what was missing in their marriage, what he needs in their marriage, how he needs a deeper intimacy than they ever had. But how can he talk to his wife about this now?

 

"Honey, I need a deeper kind of intimacy... "- then he needs to be able to work to achieve it (not easy when you are emotionally involved with an OW) or he needs to say: "I need a deeper kind of intimacy and I found it with another woman."

 

These are thoughts going through my MM's head. He wishes he had had this knowledge before he got involved with me, so they could have either improved their intimacy or exhausted all possibilities of achieving a deeper intimacy within their marriage.

[jj33]

I would agree that in most cases, MMs are not looking for a D when they commence an A. Usually, I'd guess, they are looking for A SIGN, something to point them in the right direction of What The Should Do Next. If it was as simple as wanting out of the M, chances are they'd do it... but they're not sure that it is that simple. After all, there are kids, there are assets, there is history, family, social networks and all manner of intertwinements to consider. Rupturing all that for something that might prove to be something else isn't too tempting. They first want to be sure...

 

Most of the time, though, I think it's nowhere near as articulate as even that. Something is amiss... They wake up in the morning, stare at the mirror and thing, is this it? Is this all there is to life? I grew up with all those hopes and dreams... for this? They look around at the familiar scene, feeling stifled by its familiarity, reduced to their role and desperate for change. Any change! (but... not too big... nor too sudden... nor, not of their choosing or their making. They want CONTROLLED change. Chaos is as threatening as familiarity.)

 

It may be low-grade depression. It may be midlife issues. It may be provoked by insecurity, complacency, or a myriad other triggers - but it forces a reevaluation and the inevitable comparison with the idealised self, and that mug staring back out of the mirror. And with it, a growing vulnerability to having those unacknowledged, often unexpressed, needs met from somewhere else - an A.

 

Sometimes an A can point to the dormant needs and help the MM to express them, face them, acknowledge them and resolve them - either within the M, or through its termination. Sometimes they're just too big and too scary and far easier to sweep under the rug, ignoring them until they can no longer be ignored - in the same, or next, R. Either way, until they're addressed and resolved, they won't go away, whatever face he paints onto the body he wakes up next to in bed.

 

But dealing with HIS issues alone isn't always sufficient - sometimes there are real, objective issues in the M (either because of, or causing, or in some dialectical dance of death with, his personal issues) that no amount of IC or individual psychological work can resolve. Unless both parties are prepared to make the necessary changes - assuming the changes required are in synch with the personal growth requirements of both parties - his own growth to wellness is not going to save the M. In fact, if the M is toxic, his own wellness will doom it to extinction, since he will no longer be willing or able to contribute to the toxic dynamic it requires to survive.

 

I couldnt agree with you more. And I think that is why so many OW get confused about the situation and look for signs etc etc.

 

But even if the M has issues in it or even if the conclusion that the MM reaches is that he cant continue with the marriage, I think he needs to face his own issues in relation to what went wrong in the marriage, his feelings over the whole thing, how will he build a new dynamic in a new relationship etc etc. OWoman your husband clearly did that based on your posts but so many dont - they move out for a few weeks and bunk in with the OW then they go back they arent sure etc etc etc.

[White Flower]

I couldnt agree with you more. And I think that is why so many OW get confused about the situation and look for signs etc etc.

 

But even if the M has issues in it or even if the conclusion that the MM reaches is that he cant continue with the marriage, I think he needs to face his own issues in relation to what went wrong in the marriage, his feelings over the whole thing, how will he build a new dynamic in a new relationship etc etc. OWoman your husband clearly did that based on your posts but so many dont - they move out for a few weeks and bunk in with the OW then they go back they arent sure etc etc etc.

That is why doing the work, i.e., going to counseling, etc., is so important when an AP leaves for the OP. If not, he/she is only setting themselves up for future disaster. Knowledge is power and if the new R is going to work at all the new couple need to have a strong understanding of what occured long before the A(s) began.

[OWoman]

That is why doing the work, i.e., going to counseling, etc., is so important when an AP leaves for the OP. If not, he/she is only setting themselves up for future disaster. Knowledge is power and if the new R is going to work at all the new couple need to have a strong understanding of what occured long before the A(s) began.

 

Absolutely!

[RedDevil66]

My ex left me for this OW. He came back weeks later begging for me back. I didn't take him back. He tried for 2 more yrs to win me back, all the while she was with him and living with him.

 

He finally gave up, married her and now cheats on her. Ahh, isn't love based on lies the most endearing?! ;-)

[OWoman]

Ahh, isn't love based on lies the most endearing?! ;-)

 

I wouldn't know, and I don't know my H's xW well enough to check with her.

[Brokenlady]

You don't have to ask anyone. Your relationship was the result of cheating. By your own words, you've had many A's with many MM. This is a love based on lies.

 

Our versions of love are not the same evidently

 

Sounds to me like the lies were between her H and his xW, which is a bit different than lies between OWoman and her H. Nothing about their current marriage suggests dishonesty and I'm not sure why you feel compelled to denigrate her marriage based on its origins.

 

What a wonderful world we live in that we don't all have to agree!

[RedDevil66]

Sounds to me like the lies were between her H and his xW, which is a bit different than lies between OWoman and her H. !

 

yeah ok...lies are lies are lies are lies

[Brokenlady]

yeah ok...lies are lies are lies are lies

 

Even if we accept this as true, it doesn't follow that the foundation/"base" of OWoman's marriage is one big fat lie.

 

And are lies really all the same? If I tell someone they don't look fat in a dress, is that the same as telling my SO I'm going out for bagels and instead going to give some OM a BJ? Cause I don't think that's the same at all.